The death of hotmix

Thanks JC. That used to be the way all roads in Canberra were sealed and resealed. Then along came hotmix. Great stuff but expensive.

What a load of rubbish!

I hang around Gungahlin Al heaps, and you’d think I’d have noticed all this “despising with a passion” that he goes around doing. Frankly his despising with a passion could really use work ….

old canberran said :

Can I ask what “chip seal” is. Back in the 60’s when I lived in the burbs they used to resurface the roads by spraying hot tar on the road and then trucks would spread gravel on the tar. This would then be rolled with a roller. For the next few weeks the gravel would find its way into the gutter and all over the nature strip and the racket from the gravel getting picked up by car tyres and hitting the metal under the mud guards would announce that a car was going by.
Is this anything like “chip seal”?
Oardon my ignorance but I live in NSW now and our roads never/rarely get to be resurfaced.

Yeah that is exactly what it is. Al has a weed on about it for some reason and seems to think it is some new penny pinching method being used by Mr Stanhope whom he despises with a passion. Yet this is something that has been done for a very long time and is the most sensible and cost effective manner to solve the basic problem. My memory only goes back as far as the late 70’s, clearly yours is even longer than that.

Can I ask what “chip seal” is. Back in the 60’s when I lived in the burbs they used to resurface the roads by spraying hot tar on the road and then trucks would spread gravel on the tar. This would then be rolled with a roller. For the next few weeks the gravel would find its way into the gutter and all over the nature strip and the racket from the gravel getting picked up by car tyres and hitting the metal under the mud guards would announce that a car was going by.
Is this anything like “chip seal”?
Oardon my ignorance but I live in NSW now and our roads never/rarely get to be resurfaced.

Gungahlin Al said :

I’m no expert on road sealing technology, but as far as I can recall, suburban roads have been resealed with chip seal since the ’80s.

If that were the case then they wouldn’t be covering up hotmix then would they? They’d be covering up old chipseal/spraypave/call it what you like.

It goes in cycles Al and most of those suburbs you mentioned have been re-sealed before. Suburban roads generally got a much finer grade of rock, indeed go to my mums place in Macgregor which was sealed about 5 years ago and I bet at first glance you think it is hotmix.

New Yeah said :

I’m no expert on road sealing technology, but as far as I can recall, suburban roads have been resealed with chip seal since the ’80s.

Is this actually a new issue or one that has just caught your attention? Indeed, is there a quantitative difference in the amount or type of road being chip sealed now?

Yeah think he has his knickers in a knot over the issue, because of course you are right, it has been going on for as long as I can remember.

BTW Al Canberra isn’t the only place where it is done. Indeed even in major cities like Sydney it is done to SUBURBAN roads, but as I said in another thread their main roads get re-sheeted mainly due to the fact that they have a heavier traffic load and need the new sheet to fix problems. Our roads don’t generally get that type of traffic and hence only need to be resealed.

Also as I said before are you willing to pay more in local tax, rego etc to pay for a re-sheet when it isn’t needed?

they did scrape up the road at the roundabout of eloura and mort earlier this week, and laid a very nice new smooth surface..

caf said :

Friction… Rolling resistance…

Ah, of course, touché. Although, lack of friction would probably do more to stop speeding than the speed cameras!

So did they fix up Torrens St or did they just tar and feather over the ruts?
Just tarred and feathered nifty. And all the ones around it too. Glad I don’t live there…

Friction is actually what you want in a road surface – the tires aren’t supposed to slip against it (that is, the bit of the tire that is in contact with the road is momentarily stationary). Rolling resistance, on the other hand, is what slows you down and wears your tires. Does anyone know whether rougher or smoother surfaces produce more rolling resistance?

So did they fix up Torrens St or did they just tar and feather over the ruts?
And yes, Tuggers Parkway southbound is bloody awful!
Belco Way underneath the GDE bridge, anyone? Especially the eastbound right lane.

What about increased friction of the road surface leading to greater emissions?! 😉

Not so far ….

; )

Not unless burnouts are a part of your regular driving.

Does that mean it is likely to also shorten the life of tyres with regular driving?

farq – it’s not the hotmix, it’s the chip seal that Barr claims in hoon-proof. Doing burnouts on the chip seal is possible, but it just rips the hell outta your tyres. That is unless you do a static burnout, which will take off the rough spots when you start, and then just proceed to dig two holes in the road surface. So the simple answer is – the chip seal will reduce the incidence of burnouts, but it will increase the incidence of drifting (both intentional & unintentional) with all the loose gravel around.

So who’s sent off an email to their member so far?

To make it even easier, here’s a draft, using most of the words above. Just paste it into your Outlook, substitute their names, and send ’em off – stanhope@parliament.act.gov.au, corbell@parliament.act.gov.au, gallagher@parliament.act.gov.au, barr@parliament.act.gov.au, seselja@parliament.act.gov.au etc etc.

Dear XXX

As my local Member, I wish to draw your attention to the poor quality of road surface currently being rolled out on suburban streets across Canberra.

Uneven but essentially smooth streets of hotmix are rapidly disappearing under harsh layers of chip seal.

This poor surface has a number of significant drawbacks:
* vehicle tyre noise where we never had it before
* whole neighbourhoods of kids who can no longer ride a skateboard in their quiet culs de sac, or ride their bikes at risk of skin receiving the cheesegrater treatment
* the resealing does not fix any bumpiness as a new layer of hotmix would do
* loose gravel ends up everywhere, causing hazards for cyclists and motorcyclists and stones thrown up at you.

Why is the ACT Government foisting such low quality street surfaces on its residents?

I ask you to seek a halt to this second-world penny pinching solution, and return to resealing Canberra streets with quality hotmix suitable to residential streets.

I really dislike the road surface, and I think I would like my MLA to explain to me exactly how much is being saved and what would have to be sacrificed for better roads ….

But which one should I write to, Gungahlin Al?

I am good at writing 20 second emails. Erudite they are not! Waffleless they are!

And along these same lines – when oh when will the Parkway be re-done? The coarse chip is buggered and the “tram lines” are just getting deeper and bumpier….

When it eventually does rain I am sure a Smart car will end up drowning in one of those holes!

Interestingly a couple of roundabouts in O’Connor and Turner have finally had their horrid bumps repaired and repaved. With hotmix.

The roads leading up to them are chip seal. Pretty clear they know they are using a sub-standard method, but I guess they’ll be able to blame the GFC for the next year or so.

It does seem to be the cheap option.

But with a limited budget, what would you see sacrificed in order to have better quality roads?
But to be honest, I’d grudgingly pay an extra $50 a year for better roads….but I’m not sure if rego money goes into a Federal or Local bucket of money.

The kids don’t seem to have any problems doing burn outs on the hotmix around my suburb. Sounds like Barr is just making crap up to justify taking the cheapest option.

Yeah, I thought that was bull$hit too. It might not be so suitable for big, sustained, summernats comp style burnouts, (I suspect it would tend to kill tired quicker), but if all you are trying to do is spin the wheels in a 1974 Toyota Corrola, then loose gravel is your friend.

The kids don’t seem to have any problems doing burn outs on the hotmix around my suburb. Sounds like Barr is just making crap up to justify taking the cheapest option.

Hotmix (especially when it’s brand new) makes a great surface for circle-work.

I’m no expert on road sealing technology, but as far as I can recall, suburban roads have been resealed with chip seal since the ’80s.

If that were the case then they wouldn’t be covering up hotmix then would they? They’d be covering up old chipseal/spraypave/call it what you like.

I recall that in the early nineties they were using it for smaller back streets in Belconnen suburbs, but I don’t think they were using it on the main roads.

I am wondering if maybe the inner north were just treated better in the past, and now they have to make do like everybody else?

I can’t really say whether I’m fer it or agin it until I know the other side of the equation – that is, how much is it saving us?

There does appear to be a difference, my road was done with the newer stuff, the surface has been ruined by the heavy vehicles coming and going for nearby renovations but the road it joins has the old surface and is sound despite those vehicles being driven over it as well.

Is it also the new style to not bother putting back the road markings as well?

I’m no expert on road sealing technology, but as far as I can recall, suburban roads have been resealed with chip seal since the ’80s.

Is this actually a new issue or one that has just caught your attention? Indeed, is there a quantitative difference in the amount or type of road being chip sealed now?

The resurfacing of Northbourne is terrible, it’s already warped and uneven and doesn’t give a smooth ride.

It’s craptastic for a recently ‘resurfaced’ road!