The point of Point to Point?

Rollersk8r 1 February 2010 71

Jon Stanhope is rushing through ‘point to point’ speed cameras in order to “crackdown” on the “alarming” (88%) rise in traffic infringement notices over the past year. One of the reasons cited on last night’s ABC news was “people are just slowing down where they know there’s a speed camera.”

The ABC reports that part of the alarming rise is due to the installation of 14 new cameras in this time.

Talk about mixed messages! Jon’s fighting a massive rise in fines… with a new way of collecting more fines!? And what was that about people just slowing down just for the cameras? There’s an alarming rise, Jon!!


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71 Responses to The point of Point to Point?
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youami youami 1:26 pm 12 Feb 10

Clown Killer said :

WMC, I think that in your eageness to make my words fit whatever view you have of the world you are reading too much into my post.

All am saying is that under the existing arrangements on the Tuggers Parkway, there are only two critical points where drivers need to be absolutely sure of their speed. With point-to-point, drivers (me included) will need to be sure of our speed for the whole distance between the two devices: it’s no big deal. Will it make that stretch of road safer? No.

+1. Roads of the same quality in Europe have speeds of 130km/h. We just live in a nanny state, we might as well get use to it.

Hey, what about putting spikes on the road at the point-to-point. If a vehicle goes over the speed limit the spikes pop up blowing out the tyres and causing a crash where the speeding driver will learn his or her lesson. If other vehicles get caught in the spikes we shall call that collateral damage and the ACT Government could creat a Non-Speeding Victims Compensation Fund…

blaringmike blaringmike 8:35 am 12 Feb 10

Well the only fatality on ACT roads this year has been because of a failure to give way. But of course if you do the speed limit you’re never going to die….

hmmm, this is only designed to catch the absent minded. Drivers who deliberately speed will soon learn where these PTP camera’s are and do what everyone else does, slow down for the speed trap then speed up again. This is without doubt the worst disguised *road safety* plan ever seen in the ACT.

spinact spinact 12:44 pm 09 Feb 10

Am I going to have to get a tin foil hat for my car now?

dvaey dvaey 2:03 am 05 Feb 10

Jim Jones said :

dvaey said :

People who do this, make me wish one day theyll do it to an unmarked police car. If they see you driving below the limit and then slowing down while theyre behind you, youre likely to be seeing red and blues in your rear-view mirror.

So you have no problem with people speeding, tailgating and bullying other drivers, but you think people driving slightly under the speed limit should be targeted by the police.

I think road rage has no place on our roads, whether its speeding, tailgating or slowing down delibrately to annoy another drivers. Where did I say I had no problem with speeding or tailgating? Where did I say anything about ‘slightly under the speed limit’? I simply said I wish that people who do that sort of road rage stuff, would do it in front of an unmarked police vehicle.

Its no wonder you’re surprised by what you think I said.. when I never even said it.

p1 said :

With the microchip attached to the engine, allowing of immediate suspension of the vehicles ability to drive the moment you notch up 12 demerit points….

So register the vehicle in a family members name who wont build up 12 points. Isnt that the usual trick these days? Fortunately, police still check your ID if you get pulled over, rather than automatically issuing you a fine because of the actions of the owner of the vehicle youre driving.

fgzk said :

P1 Same chip could limit the maximum speed of all vehicles to 130kmh. Is there a practical reason why this cant be introduced now? Sure some people would try to hack the chip but they could just be demerit pointed and fined. Why are cars in Australia not speed limited?

It sounds good in theory, like putting a filter on the internet. Unfortunately, it doesnt work that easily in practice. How would such a chip work? Imagine what would happen to a vehicle that reached 131km/hr and suddenly had its engine (and consequently brakes/steering) lose power.

You might be able to enforce some law that a device must be fitted to new vehicles, but thats a tiny percentage of the vehicles on our roads. In my experience, the drivers most likely to flaunt the road safety rules, arent those driving 2010 models, but those driving older cars.

fgzk fgzk 8:24 pm 04 Feb 10

P1 Same chip could limit the maximum speed of all vehicles to 130kmh. Is there a practical reason why this cant be introduced now? Sure some people would try to hack the chip but they could just be demerit pointed and fined. Why are cars in Australia not speed limited?

p1 p1 4:39 pm 04 Feb 10

… but rather than using speed cameras to do it, each number plate should be microchipped and the city dotted with a secret network of scan points. That way we could monitor both speed and the use of unregistered vehicles.

With the microchip attached to the engine, allowing of immediate suspension of the vehicles ability to drive the moment you notch up 12 demerit points….

Ema Chizit Ema Chizit 11:50 am 04 Feb 10

trevar said :

… but rather than using speed cameras to do it, each number plate should be microchipped and the city dotted with a secret network of scan points. That way we could monitor both speed and the use of unregistered vehicles.
this is the best idea i’ve heard here

Jim Jones Jim Jones 10:12 am 04 Feb 10

dvaey said :

Amazing what a quick search on google can come up with.

Selected coroner’s cases, only one of which deals with a car accident, the nature of which (hypoglycaemic blackout while driving) makes it irrelevant to this discussion anyway.

sloppery sloppery 9:43 am 04 Feb 10

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Your comment would be very true if traffic actually obeyed the speed limit.

What the hell does what you just said have to do with what I said?

Um, how about:

How come the rest of us manage to drive the speed limit and watch the road at the same time?

I was suggesting that many people don’t obey the speed limit, thus your statement is incorrect. But thanks for playing.

chewy14 chewy14 9:32 am 04 Feb 10

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

What the hell does what you just said have to do with what I said? I was talking about the spurious claim that drivers paying attention to their speed look at the road less, and thus are more dangerous, and the other furphy that there has to be some sort of trade-off between doing the speed limit and driving to the conditions. How does people doing 10km/h over the speed limit change this?

How is it a spurious claim?
I think it would be obvious that if drivers are concentrating on driving at a certain speed that they will be paying less attention to the road. Note, this is only if drivers are trying to drive to a set speed. I seriously doubt the ability of most drivers to drive at a set speed on anything other that a flat, straight road.
What i think will actually happen when these cameras are installed on the parkway is that the length of road between the cameras will become a defacto 90km/hr zone with drivers oscillating from 85-95km/hr just to make sure they don’t get fined.

fgzk fgzk 9:13 am 04 Feb 10

The number plate reading sets up a check point. Its a fixed rapid camera. So pay close attention to paying your bills.

Sure if your a honest law abiding citizen then what do you have to worry about. Nothing YET.

Clown Killer Clown Killer 8:31 am 04 Feb 10

WMC, I think that in your eageness to make my words fit whatever view you have of the world you are reading too much into my post.

All am saying is that under the existing arrangements on the Tuggers Parkway, there are only two critical points where drivers need to be absolutely sure of their speed. With point-to-point, drivers (me included) will need to be sure of our speed for the whole distance between the two devices: it’s no big deal. Will it make that stretch of road safer? No.

Deano Deano 11:44 pm 03 Feb 10

The interesting thing about point to point speed cameras is that they need to record your number plate to calculate your average speed. Firstly there are the privacy considerations. Why should you have details of your movements recorded when you haven’t broken any laws.

Secondly, it is just a very small modification to change a point to point speed camera into a point to point toll camera. Given the current government’s strategy of trying to solve all of its traffic congestion, parking, climate change and revenue problems by bleeding motorists dry, is there any doubt that plans for some sort of congestion charge aren’t too far away.

Woody Mann-Caruso Woody Mann-Caruso 7:55 pm 03 Feb 10

If point-to-point cameras were introduced I’d probably pay a little more attention to the actual speed I was driving at rather than driving to the conditions – it’s no big deal.

Oh, nice back pedal. Did you learn from one of your unicycling clown victims? Maybe you could just explain why you can’t do both, like a real driver.

Your comment would be very true if traffic actually obeyed the speed limit.

What the hell does what you just said have to do with what I said? I was talking about the spurious claim that drivers paying attention to their speed look at the road less, and thus are more dangerous, and the other furphy that there has to be some sort of trade-off between doing the speed limit and driving to the conditions. How does people doing 10km/h over the speed limit change this?

Jim Jones Jim Jones 6:58 pm 03 Feb 10

dvaey said :

People who do this, make me wish one day theyll do it to an unmarked police car. If they see you driving below the limit and then slowing down while theyre behind you, youre likely to be seeing red and blues in your rear-view mirror.

So you have no problem with people speeding, tailgating and bullying other drivers, but you think people driving slightly under the speed limit should be targeted by the police.

You never fail to surprise me, dvaey.

Clown Killer Clown Killer 2:38 pm 03 Feb 10

That was jist of my comment that WMC missed sloppery.

I usually get along the parkway with the flow of the traffic – sometimes thats at 80-90km/h and sometimes it runs to 110km/h. The existing fixed speed cameras on the Tuggers Parkway provide two speed reference points. If point-to-point cameras were introduced I’d probably pay a little more attention to the actual speed I was driving at rather than driving to the conditions – it’s no big deal.

A point WMC might consider is that every day in Australia ‘numpties’ get killed on our roads driving at or below the posted speed limit – I guess that they thought they were being safe … who knows. They’re still dead.

sloppery sloppery 2:19 pm 03 Feb 10

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

I’ll pay more attention to the dial than the road conditions and traffic situation. Whether or not they’ll make those particular sections of road any safer is questionable.

Maybe you numpties who have such a hard time with checking your speedo better hand in your keys. “But if I have to watch my speed the roads will become less safe! I’m sure to kill somebody!” How come the rest of us manage to drive the speed limit and watch the road at the same time? If it’s that hard, buy a car with a speed limiter.

Your comment would be very true if traffic actually obeyed the speed limit. Traffic in Canberra on major roads will frequently travel at 10km/h or more over the limit if conditions allow. And rarely, if ever, does this actually cause problems.

cranky cranky 12:36 pm 03 Feb 10

Very good Dvaey,

Hardly covers the cases in question.

dvaey dvaey 10:57 am 03 Feb 10

cranky said :

I’m with Jim J.

When we can access Coroners reports, we may well be on the way to cutting through the crap sprouted by the local pollies and the Police PR machine re speeding being the ultimate cause of road trauma in the ACT.

Amazing what a quick search on google can come up with.

While I dont believe that point-to-point really serves much purpose in the city, I do think it could be useful on the highways, to yass, goulburn and the coast. I travel these roads often and am amazed at the number of speeding drivers on them.

astrojax said :

i hate these hoons who roar up my clacker when i am obeying the limit, esp in the 40 zones at roadworks, as if that will make me go faster. more often than not it has the inverse effect..

People who do this, make me wish one day theyll do it to an unmarked police car. If they see you driving below the limit and then slowing down while theyre behind you, youre likely to be seeing red and blues in your rear-view mirror.

Clown Killer Clown Killer 10:56 am 03 Feb 10

Jim Jones said:

With respect, how many coroner’s reports on road accidents have you read?

More than I wish I had to Jim.

There’s the National Coroners Information System (NCIS) website (www.ncis.org.au). It does require authorised log-on which generally isn’t available to mere mortals however summaries of cases where recommendations have been made re available to the public (note: the summaries won’t cover all road fatalities).

Transcripts for specific ACT cases can be ordered through the ACT Magistrates Court (www.courts.act.gov.au/magistrates).

Most telling perhaps is the information that you can get from the Commonwealth Department of Infrastructure on road fatalities (http://statistics.infrastructure.gov.au/atsb). All other Australia States and Territories report the posted speed limit where a fatality occurs except the ACT – no data is provided on what the posted speed limit is at the point of a fatality – apparently not information that worth collecting according to the ACT government.

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