Tiger giving up on Canberra

Overheard said :

peterh said :

does anyone know if we are still being slugged with the ansett recovery levy? maybe if that was removed, if it still exists, the costs would come down slightly?

I prefer to fly qantas. the flights don’t get cancelled, I get “free” food, and I am treated as a passenger, not cattle.

“Free” my granny’s left bootstrap. There’s no such thing as a free lunch or free ‘in-flight refreshment’, Peter.

And have you noticed how much waste is generated by this ‘free’ service? A major selling point for alternatives like Virgin (especially on short hops like Canberra to Sydney) is an absence of tray-loads of packaging (and untouched food PLUS packaging) being thrown into bins.

amen, overheard. there must be an extraordinary amount of landfill created by qantas. and honestly, if it is actually a meal time, i would rather have a slightly cheaper flight then spend the $10 myself and choose my OWN food that more than likely better quality and more tasty than that junk they hand out on qantas flights. i don’t understand why people think they NEED to eat every time they get on a plane anyway – it is ridiculous – no wonder we are an obese society!! if i don’t end up having one bite and throwing the rest away, i more often than not bring home the qantas packaged crap as a ‘travel present’ for my partner…. which then usually gets eaten by the cat (which is a living breathing garbage disposal unit)!

I-filed said :

IMO all public servants, including SES, should fly economy in all circumstances.

Everyone should fly economy or at least remove any tax deductions from business class airfares. And for a bit of fun, try tellin a group of self important stakeholders that they will be flying Virgin. Suddenly value for money to the taxpayer isn’t so important afterall

I-filed said :

IMO all public servants, including SES, should fly economy in all circumstances.

Yep. My company used to have everyone go economy for flights up to 10 hours, and everyone business beyond that. The GFC was used as an excuse to get rid of the business class on all trips, so everyone goes economy, everywhere.

The APS ought to be showing similar frugality.

I-filed said :

IMO all public servants, including SES, should fly economy in all circumstances.

Sounds very egalitarian, but there are some VERY good reasons for SES and even drones to fly at the pointy end of the plane, i-filed. I’ve done it myself on company pay and it will be a VERY cold day in Hades were I ever to reach those dizzying heights.

If you have enough interest, go sniffing around the Department of Finance and Deregulation circulars (all online/all public) and all will be revealed.

peterh said :

does anyone know if we are still being slugged with the ansett recovery levy? maybe if that was removed, if it still exists, the costs would come down slightly?

I prefer to fly qantas. the flights don’t get cancelled, I get “free” food, and I am treated as a passenger, not cattle.

“Free” my granny’s left bootstrap. There’s no such thing as a free lunch or free ‘in-flight refreshment’, Peter.

And have you noticed how much waste is generated by this ‘free’ service? A major selling point for alternatives like Virgin (especially on short hops like Canberra to Sydney) is an absence of tray-loads of packaging (and untouched food PLUS packaging) being thrown into bins.

IMO all public servants, including SES, should fly economy in all circumstances.

Tempestas said :

seekay said :

It is a basic human right to be to get pissed on the taxpayers’ tab in the Qantas Club, according to the CPSU.

So much cost-cutting.

Um what does this have to do with the CPSU exactly?

Forgive my ignorance but only SES (if at all) get their Qantas Club membership paid for, everyone else pays the club fee.

That statement is simply not correct with regards to club membership payment to SES only. Not even close.

Why is it that airlines blame the APS for failures in Canberra eg Rex, Virgin, Tiger (and we’ve never even had Jetstar). It may be worth a few brownie points outside of Canberra, but cancelling Canberra flights is hardly newsworthy except here.

I pay for my own Qantas Club but I also use Virgin, depending where the best fare is at the right times. I hardly think it is good for the taxpayer if I don’t turn up to a meeting because the flight was cancelled, or that I spend a few hours in the airport because of re-scheduled connections. They need to deal with the fact that Canberra is a small market. But the Tiger conditions of you pay but we can screw you around as much as we like is hardly going to attract business travellers (govt or private) or even casual travellers if they need to make a connection.

kean van choc @#18 – IPTAS, Interstate Patient Transport Assistance Scheme, they help cover transport costs to out-of-ACT medical specialists. check google if youre interested.

motleychick @ #18 .. actually, tiger fly 737 to melbourne, virgin only fly bombariers, at least thats what they each flew last time I went with them both.

That show airline or whatever it is called on Prime is a great advertisment as to why not to fly Tiger. Though you also get the fair share of idiots.

It may be cut-priced, but the minimum customer rights should still apply. i.e. you pay for the flight and time, if they can’t put you on the plane they pay for alternative flights and accommodation.

I and the significant other have flown with Tiger on a number of occasions and got what we expected, cheap flights for a cheap price, so? As for comparing them to an ACTION bus, I have spent about the same travel time going to Melbourne as going to Tuggers, at least with Tiger I got to sit down..

toriness said :

we have business travel targets for using VB and qantas equally, and utilising best fare of the day unless there is a good business case for otherwise. i do know people with qantas club membership who just book on qantas regardless though.

i have to say given that tiger is NOTORIOUS for cancelling flights or moving them to radically different times, it would be close to impossible to use them for business travel where being somewhere on time counts.

I find it quit ammusing that a department can have travel targets (say 40% of traffic must go with VB) then on the other hand also have best fare of the day policy.

Johnboy as for Tiger and government they have to actually offer a viable service to make it an option to even think about, ie multiple daily flights at convient times. Tiger was here for the tourist market with limited flights.

Also I think you will find the Canberra flights actually did ok but the withdrawal is more so they can use their limited number of aircraft on Sydney flights where no doubt they can make a bit more money.

I flew Tiger once. I didn’t care for it.

does anyone know if we are still being slugged with the ansett recovery levy? maybe if that was removed, if it still exists, the costs would come down slightly?

I prefer to fly qantas. the flights don’t get cancelled, I get “free” food, and I am treated as a passenger, not cattle.

… only SES (if at all) get their Qantas Club membership paid for …

I believe it depends on what department and what level. I know some SES that have both QANTAS and Virgin Lounge paid for them and others that don’t and the people that are doing some serious miles get complementary lounge membership anyway.

As expressed elsewehere, I doubt that Tigers impending demise is the result of a lack of business or government patronage – they were never set up to dael with that custom in the first place.

seekay said :

It is a basic human right to be to get pissed on the taxpayers’ tab in the Qantas Club, according to the CPSU.

So much cost-cutting.

Um what does this have to do with the CPSU exactly?

Forgive my ignorance but only SES (if at all) get their Qantas Club membership paid for, everyone else pays the club fee. That the services are paid for by the rest of the paying public has bugger all to do with the APS. I think the taxpayer gets more of the bill from all the business deductions that have built the club memberships elsewhere. Sydney and Melbourne are hardly the centre of the APS but that is where the really good facilities are.

Losing competition at Cbr Airport whilst sad is not unexpected, as the airports are in private hands they want to make a profit not provide the community a service, and from the airports pov Tiger probably don’t amount to much business anyway

Low cost airlines are not aimed at business travellers. Tiger have a few issues – only operating 5 or so planes makes it really difficult if one goes out of service. Flying into Canberra in the middle of winter will bring very few tourists – especially on week days.

I’ve flown them a few times and touch wood have never had an issue. And geez – flying the four of us return to melb to watch the footy for the grand total of 80 bucks was the bargain of the century.

Every flight that operates into and out of Canberra where the minimum revenue hasn’t been achieved is another nail in the coffin of the Tiger Canberra experiment.

Never travelled with Tiger, have been told that they are small planes and with my fear of flying that’s not a good mix. Have heard bad reveiews about them though. I just stick to Virgin, never cancellations, they are always on time (if not early), have the friendliest staff who are fun and always ready to have a laugh, and in my opinion they are just a great airline. Would never go with Qantas after all their problems. And would never go with Tiger. No loss my part if they skip Canberra.

harvyk1 said :

Back on topic, yes there is no business traveller that I know (and I know quite a few) who would risk using tiger, but I do know a few who would (and do) use DJ (VB). Not a bad airline, I’ve flown them myself a few times.

Sorry should clarify that, VB (not tiger) is the one that I think isn’t to bad.

Agree on most of this.

Tiger’s big problem for business travellers (unless this changed in recent times) is there refusal or at best, reticence, to use third party booking agents, wanting instead to deal direct with the customer. No good for large organisations using a third party TMC.

Again, this may have changed.

I’ve travelled a few times with Virgin Blue and while they at that time (up until April this year) had a few rough edges to iron out (mixed metaphor alert), it was a sound business choice. Not always the cheapest fare, though, but then Qantas was trying to apply as much competitive pressure and muscle as they could.

This is a shame. Canberra need more servies, not less. At least they tried.

seekay said :

It is a basic human right to be to get pissed on the taxpayers’ tab in the Qantas Club, according to the CPSU.

So much cost-cutting.

Yep – Thats what we do in Private Industry —— Mmmmmm outsourcing!

dvaey said :

toriness said :

we have business travel targets for using VB and qantas equally, and utilising best fare of the day unless there is a good business case for otherwise.

Double post.. but when I flew recently, I was travelling to Melbourne to see a medical specialist in Melbourne. Interestingly, when I enquired about patient travel assistance, I was told that I was entitled to upto $200 in fuel-reimbursements if I drove, or $250 if I caught a train, because I chose to fly they wouldnt refund the $25 I paid for my airfare. They do offer an airfare option, but only if THEY book the flights, presumably through Qantas for full fare.

It seems strange that theyd refund over $200 simply based on travel receipts, but they wouldnt refund $50 due to me not giving them enough notice to book flights for me. This is why small airlines hate govt.

Can I ask who ‘they’ are dvaey??

It is a basic human right to be to get pissed on the taxpayers’ tab in the Qantas Club, according to the CPSU.

So much cost-cutting.

Tiger – Some advice — Random schedule changes where your clients are getting stuffed around do not make for a successfull business model.

Virgin – I take offense at your covert age based hiring policies… Thank God that my employer (Who is not the Public Service) has listened to me when I indicated that their airline is OFFENSIVE. More people should keep in mind that if *you* find it offensive, then your employer shouldnt be able to fiorce you to take them.

Qantas — Tragically – you own the skies. Why not try to drop your excessive charges.

Back on topic, yes there is no business traveller that I know (and I know quite a few) who would risk using tiger, but I do know a few who would (and do) use DJ (VB). Not a bad airline, I’ve flown them myself a few times.

Sorry should clarify that, VB (not tiger) is the one that I think isn’t to bad.

I’ve flown Tiger a few times. It was really cheap and I got what I paid for no more.

The service was basic, the scheduled flight times changed between the time we booked and flew which disrupted some of our plans. Their planes are a bus, no frills at all.

If cost is really a factor then they fit a niche in the market.

Yeah Tiger’s Canberra services were never more than token anyway.

toriness said :

i do know people with qantas club membership who just book on qantas regardless though.

Yeah, me…

Nothing like drinking “free” booze before an o’nighter flight, and it’s the only way to survive the horror of LAX.

Back on topic, yes there is no business traveller that I know (and I know quite a few) who would risk using tiger, but I do know a few who would (and do) use DJ (VB). Not a bad airline, I’ve flown them myself a few times.

Problem is CBR is not considered a holiday destination by most of OZ…

A track record of cancelled flights and changed schedules are not going to make an airline appealing to the majority of business travellers.

In reality, many travellers want the flexibility of a full fare on a full service airline, allowing multiple changes to the itinerary and no extra cost and full refunds for cancellations.

From what I understand, the failure or Tiger in Canberra probably has more to do with them just being too much hassel to fly with.

Let ’em go, I say. The one time I’ve used their ‘service’ was returning from Tasmania through Melbourne. The flights were booked about 9 months in advance saving us a heap of dough. Then, a week from travel, they Tassie to Melbourne leg was altered so that we’d miss our connecting flight. Our options were either a flight the following day back to Canberra or a new flight to make our connection on the same day at full fare. Why they couldn’t move us to the other same day flight I don’t know, but they wouldn’t. We took the following day option but we had to fork out accomodation costs overnight.

I have heard similar experiences from many other friends and family. There is no market for them in my houshold so if they leave or stay, we’re not concerned.

toriness said :

we have business travel targets for using VB and qantas equally, and utilising best fare of the day unless there is a good business case for otherwise.

Double post.. but when I flew recently, I was travelling to Melbourne to see a medical specialist in Melbourne. Interestingly, when I enquired about patient travel assistance, I was told that I was entitled to upto $200 in fuel-reimbursements if I drove, or $250 if I caught a train, because I chose to fly they wouldnt refund the $25 I paid for my airfare. They do offer an airfare option, but only if THEY book the flights, presumably through Qantas for full fare.

It seems strange that theyd refund over $200 simply based on travel receipts, but they wouldnt refund $50 due to me not giving them enough notice to book flights for me. This is why small airlines hate govt.

Ive travelled on tiger twice, both times from Canberra to Melbourne. The biggest problem I had, was that they had only one flight per day, and that flight was completely full to the brink. Even the small terminal area was struggling to hold the number of people who were on my flight (flights are spaced so only one flights worth of passengers are in the terminal at a time).

This sounds more like a bit of a whinge about lack of public service use, rather than a lack of passenger numbers, not that I think theres anything wrong with that. No-competition contracts can be a big money-saver for government sometimes, but as with anything that long-term, when a better offer comes along youre gonna miss out on the benefits. I imagine that shellcard and so on, would no doubt be seeking to establish a long-term govt contract (with minimum spend) before the electric cars come in too, and in the same way the public will complain that the government made short-sighted decisions that we all have to pay for.

Also, how does one manage to get ‘not offering flights’ or ‘giving up on canberra’, from the managing director saying theyre ‘reviewing its services’.

Tiger was good if you accepted it was a glorified ACTION bus. That was until the schedule changed to move their one flight to Melbourne leaving at 9:55pm.

Which meant day trips were out, and you were up for a nights accommodation in Melbourne straight up – after checking in around midnight…

we have business travel targets for using VB and qantas equally, and utilising best fare of the day unless there is a good business case for otherwise. i do know people with qantas club membership who just book on qantas regardless though.

i have to say given that tiger is NOTORIOUS for cancelling flights or moving them to radically different times, it would be close to impossible to use them for business travel where being somewhere on time counts.

Give CBR is both a limited sized market, and yet CBR airport charges similar amounts in landing fees as the other big city airports, which is not something that LCC’s usually like.