5 June 2012

Want to be a snitch for a movie ticket?

| johnboy
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Justice and Community Safety have published their latest effort to recruit the next generation of police informants.

The Office of Regulatory Services monitors retail compliance with the cigarette ‘sale to minors’ provision of
the Tobacco Act 1927. The Act prohibits the sale of smoking products to anyone under the age of 18.
The Office is introducing a program of compliance testing throughout the ACT. The testing is undertaken
with the assistance of persons between the ages of 15-16 years acting as purchasing assistants.
Applicants must be:
• a non-smoker
• 15 or 16 years of age
• have parental consent and
• be committed to the prevention of the sale of smoking products to minors.
NOTE: Purchasing assistants will receive gift vouchers or movie tickets for their involvement.

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Lookout Smithers10:16 pm 09 Jun 12

buzz819 said :

Lookout Smithers said :

What a short sighted and stupid practice. Im sure that it would be far more beneficial if they were able to do it without needing to be bribed. The outcome long term will just mean that some kids will have been taught from the outset that narking on others comes with a treat. The time will come for them to speak up but there won’t be anything in it for them so they won’t bother. Stupid idea

Ummm… So prosecuting people for breaking the law is short sighted?

No prosecuting people is a function of the legal system. That was not what I wrote. What I commented on was the practice of enticing young people into an understanding of personal reward for doing someone else’s dirty work. For one, using young people who might not fully grasp the larger implications here, is enough to condem this stupid idea. Secondly, it will teach younger people that telling the truth or speaking out with the truth is personally rewarding with a prize, rather that the reward of doing “the right thing”. It is short sighted. Not too mention cowardice. It is essentially getting kids to do the dirty work adults in council aren’t smart enough to combat. For shame.

It says nothing about getting paid if you catch them out, just says that your payment will be the vouchers for trying to purchase the cigarettes.

dundle said :

Why don’t they get paid properly? There’s something creepy about this and the lack of pay makes it worse. Maybe they only work in 5 minute shifts so they can’t be paid properly?

+1 Payment in movie tickets is weird.

Looks like we need a 21 Jump Street unit in Canberra.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

c_c said :

Charlie57 said :

c_c said :

Good idea but I wonder about entrapment.

My understanding of entrapment is that the police have done something to trick the offender into doing the illegal thing that they wouldn’t have normally done. If an underage person ask to buy a pack of cigarettes and the shopkeep hands them over, I don’t see that anyone has been tricked into not asking for ID.

The only thing that surprises me about this is that it hasn’t been happening for years. Nothing wrong with it.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

c_c said :

Good idea but I wonder about entrapment.

We are not America yet, there is no such principle under Australian law.

Entrapment isn’t tricking someone, it’s simply inducing someone to do something they may not have otherwise done.

While there is no singular principle in Australia of entrapment like in the US and British and Australian common law have been unclear on the subject, courts interstate have been asked to consider whether they can accept evident in sting operations on tobacco and alcohol retailers. In Australia, rather than been a defence to criminal liability like in the US, it is raised in terms of suitability and desirability of accepting evidence. And to date, the courts have said it’s fine.

So how would it be entrapment?

Because it would. It would operate so as to have the same result.

colourful sydney racing identity4:53 pm 06 Jun 12

c_c said :

Charlie57 said :

c_c said :

Good idea but I wonder about entrapment.

My understanding of entrapment is that the police have done something to trick the offender into doing the illegal thing that they wouldn’t have normally done. If an underage person ask to buy a pack of cigarettes and the shopkeep hands them over, I don’t see that anyone has been tricked into not asking for ID.

The only thing that surprises me about this is that it hasn’t been happening for years. Nothing wrong with it.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

c_c said :

Good idea but I wonder about entrapment.

We are not America yet, there is no such principle under Australian law.

Entrapment isn’t tricking someone, it’s simply inducing someone to do something they may not have otherwise done.

While there is no singular principle in Australia of entrapment like in the US and British and Australian common law have been unclear on the subject, courts interstate have been asked to consider whether they can accept evident in sting operations on tobacco and alcohol retailers. In Australia, rather than been a defence to criminal liability like in the US, it is raised in terms of suitability and desirability of accepting evidence. And to date, the courts have said it’s fine.

So how would it be entrapment?

Sitting outside the Charnwwod shops were a few idle kids, but then out came 18+yo and dished out the packets of cigarettes and off they went happy as Larry. I’ve seen grog passed on to minors this way as well.

Thinks the entrapment laws are a joke

Charlie57 said :

c_c said :

Good idea but I wonder about entrapment.

My understanding of entrapment is that the police have done something to trick the offender into doing the illegal thing that they wouldn’t have normally done. If an underage person ask to buy a pack of cigarettes and the shopkeep hands them over, I don’t see that anyone has been tricked into not asking for ID.

The only thing that surprises me about this is that it hasn’t been happening for years. Nothing wrong with it.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

c_c said :

Good idea but I wonder about entrapment.

We are not America yet, there is no such principle under Australian law.

Entrapment isn’t tricking someone, it’s simply inducing someone to do something they may not have otherwise done.

While there is no singular principle in Australia of entrapment like in the US and British and Australian common law have been unclear on the subject, courts interstate have been asked to consider whether they can accept evident in sting operations on tobacco and alcohol retailers. In Australia, rather than been a defence to criminal liability like in the US, it is raised in terms of suitability and desirability of accepting evidence. And to date, the courts have said it’s fine.

geetee said :

Can’t wait for the next recruitment wave for under-age entrapment officers.

– Free yo-yo if you can help us catch a kiddy-fiddler or pimp
– Free hoodie if you can score some dope for us
– $10 worth of phone credit if you dob dad in for threatening the kids
– Free Maccas voucher if you report Mum’s offensive muffin-top

Look, now this is getting ridiculous… Except that last one… clearly all muffin-tops should be punishable by mandatory sentencing on the first offense. 🙂

colourful sydney racing identity12:32 pm 06 Jun 12

c_c said :

Good idea but I wonder about entrapment.

We are not America yet, there is no such principle under Australian law.

one step away from becoming a fulltime informant & purchasing weed and dobbing in non “controlled release” dealers.

c_c said :

Good idea but I wonder about entrapment.

My understanding of entrapment is that the police have done something to trick the offender into doing the illegal thing that they wouldn’t have normally done. If an underage person ask to buy a pack of cigarettes and the shopkeep hands them over, I don’t see that anyone has been tricked into not asking for ID.

The only thing that surprises me about this is that it hasn’t been happening for years. Nothing wrong with it.

Truthiness said :

This is a great idea! encouraging minors to turn in their friends has been the hallmark of every great civilisation. Having the foresight, nay, genius, to reward their betrayal with free propaganda , a master stroke! soon we will rid the world of all evil plants and our children shall be loyal only to the enforcement agencies!

Then our reich will last for 1000 years!

Can’t wait for the next recruitment wave for under-age entrapment officers.

– Free yo-yo if you can help us catch a kiddy-fiddler or pimp
– Free hoodie if you can score some dope for us
– $10 worth of phone credit if you dob dad in for threatening the kids
– Free Maccas voucher if you report Mum’s offensive muffin-top

Thumper said :

Does anyone else feel slightly uncomfortable about this?

Only the criminals amongst you. Which probably means all of you.

Cheap said :

Here’s an idea, go to shop, buy cigarettes then extort the shop owner by telling him your an underage informant! That bottle of vodka over there looks mighty tasty…

And they call the cops to report the shake-down? You’re not terribly bright are you?

Lookout Smithers said :

What a short sighted and stupid practice. Im sure that it would be far more beneficial if they were able to do it without needing to be bribed. The outcome long term will just mean that some kids will have been taught from the outset that narking on others comes with a treat. The time will come for them to speak up but there won’t be anything in it for them so they won’t bother. Stupid idea

What are you so afraid of? Stop selling cigarettes to minors or whatever other crimes you are committing and you’ll have nothing to worry about

Truthiness said :

This is a great idea! encouraging minors to turn in their friends has been the hallmark of every great civilisation. Having the foresight, nay, genius, to reward their betrayal with free propaganda , a master stroke! soon we will rid the world of all evil plants and our children shall be loyal only to the enforcement agencies!

I didn’t know under age non-smokers had a default friendship with tobacco resellers.

Does anyone else feel slightly uncomfortable about this?

This is a great idea! encouraging minors to turn in their friends has been the hallmark of every great civilisation. Having the foresight, nay, genius, to reward their betrayal with free propaganda , a master stroke! soon we will rid the world of all evil plants and our children shall be loyal only to the enforcement agencies!

I think there’s a law against paying minors to buy ciggies so they have to “volunteer.”

So it’s more a “thank-you gift” than a bribe.

My kid wants to be a snitch for a movie ticket!

He did clam to think it involved carrying a leather briefcase with the purchased contraband inside; secreting the briefcase under a bench in an inner city park and then hiding behind a tree to secretly watch someone from ASIO switch briefcases. And then, he could secretly collect the new briefcase which would contain BULK movie tickets and BULK shopping vouchers and details of his next assignment written in a secret ASIO code, of course.

My kid is a sarcastic little so and so and he is actually applying. 🙂

How else to police the relevant law, which we should remember is aimed at protecting children from easy access to cigarettes?

What’s the alternative? Asking tobacco retailers to self-enforce a rigorous code of practice? We no longer allow police to investigate themselves in matters of corruption. Are we saying that tobacco retailers are as upstanding and honorable as, say, priests. No, bad example…bank managers…HSU officials…no, this isn’t working…newly elected Qld premiers…media magnates…shopping trolley collectors…

damien haas said :

There is something very unsettling about this.

What are your thoughts on it? Why does it unsettle you? Looking at the Tobacco Act, it was put in so that authorized officers, in this case not Police, can act on information that they have received about an area.

From what the act does state, it appears that this type of thing can only be implemented at places where ORS has received a number of complaints about the shops selling to minors, this is seen to be the best way to gain evidence on the offences.

Here’s an idea, go to shop, buy cigarettes then extort the shop owner by telling him your an underage informant! That bottle of vodka over there looks mighty tasty…

There is something very unsettling about this.

Good idea but I wonder about entrapment. Interstate, courts have not rejected the evidence in stings like this, but all you need is some do gooder justice in the ACT and a citation of the Human Rights Act to have it thrown out.

Lookout Smithers said :

What a short sighted and stupid practice. Im sure that it would be far more beneficial if they were able to do it without needing to be bribed. The outcome long term will just mean that some kids will have been taught from the outset that narking on others comes with a treat. The time will come for them to speak up but there won’t be anything in it for them so they won’t bother. Stupid idea

Ummm… So prosecuting people for breaking the law is short sighted?

It says nothing about getting paid if you catch them out, just says that your payment will be the vouchers for trying to purchase the cigarettes.

Nothing wrong with this at all. I’d be curious to see how many retailers get caught out before they cotton on to what’s happening.

Well all you need is some publicity for the program even if you never get a volunteer!

VYBerlinaV8_is_back4:48 pm 05 Jun 12

Helping stop illegal practise is a bad thing? What is this, primary school?

Lookout Smithers3:59 pm 05 Jun 12

What a short sighted and stupid practice. Im sure that it would be far more beneficial if they were able to do it without needing to be bribed. The outcome long term will just mean that some kids will have been taught from the outset that narking on others comes with a treat. The time will come for them to speak up but there won’t be anything in it for them so they won’t bother. Stupid idea

Why don’t they get paid properly? There’s something creepy about this and the lack of pay makes it worse. Maybe they only work in 5 minute shifts so they can’t be paid properly?

While I think it’s creepy now I used to think when I was young this would be fun, sadly they didn’t have it then.

And what if one of the sweet little snitches becomes addicted to ciggies due to participation in the scheme? He or she would be just the type to sue, I’m sure. ‘I never wanted to smoke before they told me to buy some.’

Dilandach said :

Inform on your family and friends, fabulous prizes to be won!

I think it is more targeting shops and servo’s more then friends and family, notice it asks for a non-smoker and the position is called a purchase assistant.

Inform on your family and friends, fabulous prizes to be won!

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