Where are Canberra's covert speeding cameras?

Plenty of motorists are able to handle driving with our signs the way they are without accumulating speeding fines. Observation skills are very important while driving. Until the government is able to place large signs, giving several hundred metres notice, in front of every unexpected incident (such as small children running onto the road), I am entirely happy with the status quo. If people without the observation skills to handle current signage standards accumulate sufficient fines to discourage them from driving altogether, so much the better.

Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick.

Again, he cried: “If you can’t see a speed sign, why are you driving a car?”

Am I alone in thinking that the roads are adequately signposted? It’s not like they’re hidden or anything. Size ‘B’ is bigger than Malcolm Turnbull’s head – you’d have to be either drunk or stupid not to see it.

In the rare event that someone does, it’s blindingly obvious that roads with driveways are 60 zones, other roads are 80, and anything above is usually signposted every km or so (I can’t believe someone is complaining that roads are *only* singnposted at 1km intervals

The local road 50kph limit is clearly posted on roads into the ACT. Everyone who lives here should know about this limit.

And, quite frankly, I haven’t heard a slew of stories and/or complaints from visitors booked for speeding. I’d be willing to bet that tourists are generally driving a lot more slowly than the locals (particularly if they’re looking for which way to go).

PS – Very Busy: that was a remarkably lame attempt at a sledge. Do try harder. Actually having a point might help. All you could muster was a bit of useless bluster.

Jim Jones and PB: You missed my point completely, or you didn’t read the post entirely. I am NOT suggesting the government is at fault for people who exceed the speed limit when they know perfectly well what the speed limit is. I AM suggesting they are at fault when people are booked in an area where the speed limit signage is poor, hence not all drivers were sure what the speed limit is.

If we want ALL drivers to obey the speed limit on any given section of road, then we MUST cater for those who are not observant enough to spot a small speed limit sign 5-6 metres above the road on top of a direction sign. At least until our licencing system is changed so as NOT to cater for people who aren’t that observant.

I am not saying that there must be a speed limit sign every hundred metres on every road… I am saying that the ACT Gov MUST install speed limit signs using the same standards as used interstate.

Currently we have the highest number of automated speed cameras per capita in the country… clearly the ACT Gov wants us to think it’s important for us to obey the speed limit. Why then do we have some of the poorest speed limit signage in the country? These two factors only make sense if automated speed limit enforcement is about revenue. If it were about safety we’d also have the most overt and over the top speed limit signage in the country.

Jim Jones said :

Sgt.Bungers said :

Very long rant… blah blah blah blah blah

That’s a massive rant that could be shortened to the following statement: “It’s the government’s fault everyone is speeding.”

Seriously, people need to stop whining about this kind of crap and making excuses. It’s not feckin rocket science.

Jim Jones said :

Also, if you can’t read the speed signs that are there, what the hell are you doing driving a car?

Jim,

Sgt Bungers was making a valid point, raising a valid issue, and giving a valid solution. He gave good examples resulting in a long post and mentioned himself at the beginning that it was a long rant. Your arrogant attitude is another problem we have on the roads.

Jim Jones said :

Also, if you can’t read the speed signs that are there, what the hell are you doing driving a car?

My girlfriend recently completed the Road Ready course for her learners, and 2 of the students in the class were unable to do their knowledge test without a translator who could translate the knowledge questions for them. She said this was standard practice for students who are unable to read and/or unable to understand english. Kinda a scary thought.

Jim Jones said :

Sgt.Bungers said :

Very long rant… blah blah blah blah blah

That’s a massive rant that could be shortened to the following statement: “It’s the government’s fault everyone is speeding.”

Seriously, people need to stop whining about this kind of crap and making excuses. It’s not feckin rocket science.

+1

Did you not try what we call “a driving test” Sgt.Bungers?
Did you not learn that for each road in Aus there is a given speed limit?
Were you not aware that breaking that speed limit results in fines if you are caught?
Want the govt to employ someone to sit in your back seat, letting you know when you are exceeding the speed limit, and liable to get fined?

“Personal responsibility”, it’s all the rage amongst intelligent folk…

Well done Sgt Bungers, post AND rant of the week. Respect!

Also, if you can’t read the speed signs that are there, what the hell are you doing driving a car?

Sgt.Bungers said :

Very long rant… blah blah blah blah blah

That’s a massive rant that could be shortened to the following statement: “It’s the government’s fault everyone is speeding.”

Seriously, people need to stop whining about this kind of crap and making excuses. It’s not feckin rocket science.

I’ve always thought we would be better with a supplemental system of coloured cat’s eyes or dotted lines on the road indicating the speed.
White line = 100kph
Yellow – 80kph
and so forth.

A little costly to implement but once implemented not too difficult to maintain and at any point in your journey, change of direction or joining a different road you would always be able to determine the speed limit.

FFS! If they put up more signs I bet I could guess who’d be the first group of people to argue that there are too many signs to keep track of what the speed limit is.

Very long rant… The current speed limit signage in the ACT is horrendous. It is often not overt, and it is placed on exsisting street lamps and poles. How anyone can respect a speed limit when the sole final factor in deciding the boundaries of that speed limit is the location of an exsiting mounting point for a sign, is beyond me.

Speed limit signs clearly need to inform interstate drivers what our limits are and where they change. Currently they are there to remind locals what the limit is. When a speed limit lowers, and the speed limit sign telling us this is small, crooked, mounted on a street sign containing many other symbols, diagrams, directions, it’s little wonder people miss them and/or have little respect for them.

The government tells us it is important never to exceed the speed limit. Fair enough, I’ll take their word for it. The first step to ensure the population takes this seriously, is to mount serious speed limit signs that are obvious from a great distance, and impossible to miss. The speed limit signs need to represent great authority… they cannot be flimsy and cheap. In my mind, flimsy, cheap, run down speed limit signs represent a flimsy, cheap, run down government.

The majority of the time, the ACT Government mounts a small, size B speed limit signs up when a speed limit drops. This is beginning to change, but is still not good enough.

Perfect example, both ends of the Tuggeranong Parkway. The GDE end has one small size B 80km/h sign where the limit drops from 100km/h. Easy to miss if you’re a tourist concentrating on which of three lanes they have to be in. That sign is a token reminder sign for locals who know the limit drops there. Heading towards Belco Way, there is not another 80km/h reminder sign for a km.

At the other end of the parkway, same deal. One 80km/h sign where the limit drops from 100km/h, bent and dented, angled away from traffic, high up on a street light pole, above a Bus Stop Ahead sign. There is another 80km/h sign on the other side of the road, also angled away from traffic, on the other side of the dividing barrier. 1km later is a speed camera, with one more crooked 80km/h sign mounted on the right hand side of the road on a street lamp pole. That’s it. Again, token signs for locals. They don’t stand out, interstate visitors will miss them and get booked by the camera. This is one of the busiest roads in Canberra.

Adelaide Ave. Limited access, wide, dual carriageway for most of it’s length. 80km/h, we all know the limit as we live here… again one of the busiest roads in Canberra, all the speed limit signs are mounted on exsisting poles, they are all size B. This road was on the top of the list of mobile speed camera locations when we got those vans… why didn’t the Gov try implementing more overt speed limit signs that are impossible to miss, before penalising drivers for exceeding the speed limit?

Hindmarsh drive, coming into Woden from Weston Creek. The 60km/h limit starts just before Melrose drive. One sign is placed above a parking sign, another on it’s own pole on the right side of the road. Both signs are size B. This is on a 5 lane section of road, speed camera less than a km later. If the Gov was serious about people doing 60km/h from this point… size D signs would be used, on their own obvious poles, with “60 Ahead” warning signs before it.

Before 50km/h, local streets used to be lined with signs reminding the limit was 60km/h. Wehn it was changed to 50km/h, those 60 signs were taken down, but not replaced with 50 signs. The Gov altered our speed limits the cheapest way it could… again, are they really serious about getting people not to break the speed limit?

This is the opinion of one interstate visitor posted on a fourm a few years back, before warning signs were placed leading up to the camera at the Barton Highway/GDE interchange…

“Does anyone know WTF is going on with the speed camera on the Barton Hwy near Gungalin Drive?

There were 3 poles on the median:

Camera box appeared to be facing towards the eastbound carriageway,

one of the small boxes (slave flash, radar or whatever) appeared to be pointing towards the westbound carriageway, and
the other small box appeared to be pointing up into the air.

Combined with the usual ACT absof**kinglutely woeful absence of limit signs, I passed this pile of s**t while wondering WTF the limit was, since the last sign that I saw was an 80 sign on Gungalin Drive before turning right onto the Barton Hwy at lights…”

Why… was a speed camera erected at a site, when previously were NO speed limit signs AT ALL leading up to the site prior to the installation of the camera? No wonder people were exceeding the speed limit here there was no sign telling anyone what it was!! Again… locals knew… but nobody else.

On *all* major roads, large speed limit signs need to be used, no exceptions, no excuses. They must be erected on their own poles, not blending into other signs. Large “speed limit ahead” warning signs need to be used… no exceptions. That’s how it’s done interstate… why isn’t it done here in Canberra where we have the highest number of speed cameras per capita?

Spideydog said :

farnarkler said :

Yeah and how about if there’s someone so far up your exhaust pipe that if you do brake for the lights, you’d get shunted? It has been a legitimate defence in the past.

Not for a red light.

Maybe this was the story with the crashed police car above. I know if I had a marked car behind me and the light turned orange, Id be slamming on the brakes and collecting my insurance money.

My faith in society has been given a ray of light. I read at least 50% of the comments in this thread, that are for vehicular speed law enforcement, but whilst driving on ACT roads,I observe at least 99% of drivers that disobey the road rules. BTW anyone know where Rate The Plate (raters out there) website has gone?

Anyone whinging about getting a fine for breaking the law is a big girls blouse.

I guess we could just change every speed sign to one of the big “Speed Camera Ahead” ones.

“do you want constant warnings for when you’re about to be caught breaking the law? at what point does your mind leap to “best not break the law then”.

speed cameras etc will only be successful when there is no warning – and you could get fined at any point, if breaking the law.

would that be “sneaky”? or just convince you NOT TO BREAK THE LAW…”

+1

Reprobate said :

dvaey said :

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/move/vehicles/traffic_and_parking_infringements/red_light_cameras
Amazing what google can find when you google for redlight cameras in Canberra.

shutterbug said :

The vehicle based speed camera have been trying a sneaky tactic along Northbourne and the Monaro Highway in recent weeks.
They park around 200m down the road from one of the many fixed speed cameras on these roads, no doubt catching speeding motarists a second time for the same single offence.

Under the regulations that speed cameras are allowed to operate, they must be located at least 2km from another camera site. There are also many other regulations which I often see the cameras in breach of. Now that Ive gone looking for it though, they seem to have made it difficult to find.

Dvaey – I thought it was 1km, but like you am having trouble finding the reference on either the ACT or AFP websites. I recall seeing a camera van at night on the Monaro highway northbound a few weeks ago, just before the Long Gully Rd lights, and (in the reverse direction) it was 1.1km from the fixed camera for the same direction.

Same here, at night on the Monaro Highway. When I went through, it was before the fixed camera and according to my Odometer, less than 1km from the fixed southbound camera.

Sgt.Bungers said :

If the ACT GovCo really wanted to stop people exceeding the speed limit through these intersections, there would be three large signs leading up to the cameras identical to the signage leading up to the new fixed speed cameras all over the ACT. There’s no reason not to have it. Particularly given the current rather average speed limit signage leading up to many red light/speed cameras at the moment.

No, they’re not trying to stop people speeding through “these intersections”. The government is trying to stop people speeding at any time, through any intersection or road.

You can’t be opposed to speed cameras, only to speed limits. Speed cameras simply enforce the law. You can’t disagree with cameras without objecting to speeding law.

P1, do you disagree with speed limits on highways?

There’s a concept known as the Panoptican – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon

It proposes that the reason people in a society behave by the convention of that society, is because they’re afraid of getting caught.

How can you be afraid of getting caught, if every speed camera is surrounded by signs warning you of it. People will only not speed, if they are afraid of being caught AT ANY TIME.

Sgt.Bungers said :

The current red light/speed camera warning signs are often mounted on existing street direction signs or lamp posts. Meaning the signs often aren’t overt as they blend into other roadside furniture.

I don’t have any issues with seeing any of the signs ?? If you can’t see these camera warning signs, makes me wonder what signs you do actually see ??

Sgt.Bungers said :

If the ACT GovCo really wanted to stop people exceeding the speed limit through these intersections, there would be three large signs leading up to the cameras identical to the signage leading up to the new fixed speed cameras all over the ACT. There’s no reason not to have it. Particularly given the current rather average speed limit signage leading up to many red light/speed cameras at the moment.

The current red light/speed camera warning signs are often mounted on existing street direction signs or lamp posts. Meaning the signs often aren’t overt as they blend into other roadside furniture.

Surely it’s safer to have someone who’s exceeding the speed limit slow down for the camera whilst going through the intersection, then speed up again after the intersection… Rather than drive too fast through the intersection. Sure they don’t get fined and the Gov misses out on revenue, but revenue is not the point of speed cameras right?

Whether or not it’s safer to have someone going through the intersection 10km/h over the speed limit whilst paying attention to the road, vs someone going through the intersection at the speed limit whilst watching their speedo… well that’s a whole other kettle of fish 🙂

You’re removing all responsibility for speeding from the driver and giving it to the government.

If people speed and get caught then they need to toughen the f#$ck up and live with the consequences instead of whining like little b1thces.

Signs warning of speed cameras may get some people to slow down some of the time, but what are you going to do, put cameras and signs on every traffic intersection? All because some people can’t get it into their thick skulls that the speed limits actually do apply to them?

I think it’s hilarious that many people on this forum who complain about speeding fines are the fiercest advocates of ‘do the crime, do the time’ everywhere else (baying for blood from ‘criminals’ and demanding that prisoners have tougher living conditions), but think that it’s ‘not fair’ when they get pinged for speeding.

Sgt.Bungers, perhaps the idea is that the particularly unobservant drivers who find themselves not noticing the “red light & speed camera” signs will have an incentive to modify their behavour to slow down through *every* intersection, rather than just one?

farnarkler said :

Yeah and how about if there’s someone so far up your exhaust pipe that if you do brake for the lights, you’d get shunted? It has been a legitimate defence in the past.

Not for a red light.

I am very opposed to speed cameras on straight sections of highway, but the red-light/speed cameras are fair enough in my book.

If the ACT GovCo really wanted to stop people exceeding the speed limit through these intersections, there would be three large signs leading up to the cameras identical to the signage leading up to the new fixed speed cameras all over the ACT. There’s no reason not to have it. Particularly given the current rather average speed limit signage leading up to many red light/speed cameras at the moment.

The current red light/speed camera warning signs are often mounted on existing street direction signs or lamp posts. Meaning the signs often aren’t overt as they blend into other roadside furniture.

Surely it’s safer to have someone who’s exceeding the speed limit slow down for the camera whilst going through the intersection, then speed up again after the intersection… Rather than drive too fast through the intersection. Sure they don’t get fined and the Gov misses out on revenue, but revenue is not the point of speed cameras right?

Whether or not it’s safer to have someone going through the intersection 10km/h over the speed limit whilst paying attention to the road, vs someone going through the intersection at the speed limit whilst watching their speedo… well that’s a whole other kettle of fish 🙂

If I can’t speed then our roads musn’t be human rights compliant.

Yeah and how about if there’s someone so far up your exhaust pipe that if you do brake for the lights, you’d get shunted? It has been a legitimate defence in the past.

Stop speeding through lights then ffs. I don’t care if you die. its the other poor bastards you take out that bother me

screaming banshee said :

I just got stung again with an infringement speeding ticket, again through a set of lights.

I must have missed this years ago when announced but are all Red light cameras also functioning as speed cameras?

Did you also miss the first time you received an infringement for speeding through a set of lights?

^^ agreed

i was going to write “…or you could not break the law”, but i think your post does a pretty good job.

do you want constant warnings for when you’re about to be caught breaking the law? at what point does your mind leap to “best not break the law then”.

speed cameras etc will only be successful when there is no warning – and you could get fined at any point, if breaking the law.

would that be “sneaky”? or just convince you NOT TO BREAK THE LAW…

1km.

I have a photo somewhere that I took of a mobile speed camera van parked on the median strip on Ellenborough st between the 2 Cossignton Smith intersections , with the advisory signs above it saying your speed has been checked……….only problem was they had 80Kph on display when Ellenborough st is signposted at 60 Kph!

I guess the operators are human after all.

dvaey said :

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/move/vehicles/traffic_and_parking_infringements/red_light_cameras
Amazing what google can find when you google for redlight cameras in Canberra.

shutterbug said :

The vehicle based speed camera have been trying a sneaky tactic along Northbourne and the Monaro Highway in recent weeks.
They park around 200m down the road from one of the many fixed speed cameras on these roads, no doubt catching speeding motarists a second time for the same single offence.

Under the regulations that speed cameras are allowed to operate, they must be located at least 2km from another camera site. There are also many other regulations which I often see the cameras in breach of. Now that Ive gone looking for it though, they seem to have made it difficult to find.

Dvaey – I thought it was 1km, but like you am having trouble finding the reference on either the ACT or AFP websites. I recall seeing a camera van at night on the Monaro highway northbound a few weeks ago, just before the Long Gully Rd lights, and (in the reverse direction) it was 1.1km from the fixed camera for the same direction.

I just got stung again with an infringement speeding ticket, again through a set of lights.

I must have missed this years ago when announced but are all Red light cameras also functioning as speed cameras?

Did you also miss the first time you received an infringement for speeding through a set of lights?

One day someone’s going to follow the actions of the Dutch group and destroy one or two of them.

shutterbug said :

The vehicle based speed camera have been trying a sneaky tactic along Northbourne and the Monaro Highway in recent weeks.
They park around 200m down the road from one of the many fixed speed cameras on these roads, no doubt catching speeding motarists a second time for the same single offence.
I would suggest anyone caught by these could get one of the tickets overturned as someone successfully sued the RTA for this double booking rubbish.

If they’re 200 metres down the road, then what they’re doing is actually catching people who slow down through the signposted speed camera and then go back to speeding afterwards.

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/move/vehicles/traffic_and_parking_infringements/red_light_cameras
Amazing what google can find when you google for redlight cameras in Canberra.

shutterbug said :

The vehicle based speed camera have been trying a sneaky tactic along Northbourne and the Monaro Highway in recent weeks.
They park around 200m down the road from one of the many fixed speed cameras on these roads, no doubt catching speeding motarists a second time for the same single offence.

Under the regulations that speed cameras are allowed to operate, they must be located at least 2km from another camera site. There are also many other regulations which I often see the cameras in breach of. Now that Ive gone looking for it though, they seem to have made it difficult to find.

You could try not speeding, then you would have nothing to complain about.
I speed and yes one day I will probably get caught but that is my own fault for choosing to do so.

Slightly OT but Check out:

http://www.roadsense.com.au/factsandfigures.html

the red light / speed cameras are sign posted – just not as obviously as the fixed speed cameras. Take it as a lesson learned.

I agree with caf, they all have signs.

Which one got you?

The vehicle based speed camera have been trying a sneaky tactic along Northbourne and the Monaro Highway in recent weeks.
They park around 200m down the road from one of the many fixed speed cameras on these roads, no doubt catching speeding motarists a second time for the same single offence.
I would suggest anyone caught by these could get one of the tickets overturned as someone successfully sued the RTA for this double booking rubbish.

It’s only double revenue when people speed and run red lights. Don’t speed and run red lights = no revenue. Pretty simple really.

From the TAMS site:
“Advance warning signage advises motorists where cameras are in operation. These consist of signs reading “Red light and speed camera ahead” on all roads approaching a red light speed camera.”

As far as I know, none of them are ‘covert’. In fact, they all seem quite overt!

I’m pretty sure that red light cameras are also speed cameras, meaning you have to be very careful when gunning it through an amber…

They’ll all speed cameras, and they all have signs before the intersection, too.