Where's Godwin?

Which makes his diagnosis* none the more clear MWF old sport.

*”Im still betting on a bad case of “I’ve got caught”.

Pommy bastard said :

Just a thought, does anyone know what mental illness diagnosis Gretch has been given, which resulted in his long stay in hospital?

As far as I am aware you would need to be suicidal, or have an illness which made you a danger to yourself or others before staying on a ward for this length of time.

Schizophrenia? Manic depression? Psychosis?

Or just catch all “mental health problems”? Hmmmm?

Just because WIN News showed Canberra hospital doesn’t mean Gretch is in the Psych ward in the Canberra hospital, maybe it was just a convenient shot held on file?

Gretch has and, in all likelihood, still has a very high salary and very forgiving private health insurance. With the right private health insurance all of us could go into Hyson Green for a “nice rest”. If one requests to be admitted to a publicly funded psych ward in Canberra one has no chance in hell.

Yes Malcolm is a sleaze and a bully but GG didn’t just appear out of nowhere.
It’s on the public record that he is very well known to the Liberal Party and even worked for Joe Hockey.
It’s also been reported that he has been leaking from the APS for a long time, including directly to the former Prime Minister.
He has now learned the hard way just how much reward is in store for people indulging in such behaviour.

weeziepops said :

Looking only at the case in point and not the person/personality, I wonder what the APS response to such a situation will be.

Probably a promotion to Defence Materiel

Does no one else think that Turnbull was disgustingly sleazy?

I mean, he and his minions *OBVIOUSLY* cultivated this distressingly unwordly, idealistic, gullible, possibly-neurologically different (aka Autism Spectrum) man… am I waaaaay off the mark in thinking Mr Turnbull a despicable human being for allowing this?

BTW… not all politicians are morally bankrupt, and neither are all political facilitators. Mr Turnbull and his cohort/ilk, probably – all pollies, well… no I don’t think that is a reasonable thing to say.

I mean, being sacked. Not being sack, which might be quite nice.

Looking only at the case in point and not the person/personality, I wonder what the APS response to such a situation will be. If a person does something like this but does so while incapacitated by mental illness, can he/she avoid being sack or is the decision based solely on the end result (which was bringing the APS into disrepute, perverting the course of official business or something?)?

The inside of a psychiatric unit shouldn’t be an unfamiliar experience for Godwin given he used to work for Treasury. He needs to stop talking to newspapers and focus on his recuperation.

But how Malcolm and Eric A didn’t realise they had a stick of dynamite in front of them at their clandestine meeting is beyond me. All the evidence pointed to a very loose cannon with delusions of grandeur who, for reasons yet unclear, had an unhealthy hatred of the current Government.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25884390-2702,00.html

AUDITOR-GENERAL Ian McPhee has cleared the Rudd government of making any improper representations on behalf of Labor mates, instead accusing senior Treasury official Godwin Grech of giving special treatment to a Liberal Party-affiliated car dealer.

So in the end, Mr Grech has an unorthodox but spectacularly self-destructive and labour-intensive method of bringing attention to his problematic actions.
Some nice little Liberal party myrmidon has loved the betrayal, hated the betrayer, and so rewarded the stooge with what he deserved.
(ie: Someone who would betray his sworn loyalties to profit himself by swearing loyalty with us would betray us eventually, too… Get rid of him.)

And now, when he comes out of it all trying to tell his side of the story, he has ‘mentally impaired recollection and false document creator’ stamped on his forehead.
Shame it had to blow up on the Opposition leadership, though.

There is a mental illness called Münchhausen by proxy… here is an excerpt from “kidshealth.org”:

“…In MBPS, an individual — usually a mother — deliberately makes another person (most often his or her own preschool child) sick or convinces others that the person is sick. The parent or caregiver misleads others into thinking that the child has medical problems by lying and reporting fictitious episodes. He or she may exaggerate, fabricate, or induce symptoms. As a result, doctors usually order tests…” and:

“Typically, the perpetrator feels satisfied by gaining the attention and sympathy of doctors, nurses, and others who come into contact with him or her and the child. Some experts believe that it isn’t just the attention that’s gained from the “illness” of the child that drives this behavior, but also the satisfaction in being able to deceive individuals that they consider to be more important and powerful than themselves.

Because the parent or caregiver appears to be so caring and attentive, often no one suspects any wrongdoing. A perplexing aspect of the syndrome is the ability of the parent or caregiver to fool and manipulate doctors. Frequently, the perpetrator is familiar with the medical profession and is very good at fooling the doctors. Even the most experienced doctors can miss the meaning of the inconsistencies in the child’s symptoms….”

Sorry, Doctor Turnbull.

I smell conspiracy.I put foward the theory that Godwin is a double agent, that he was discovered to be working with the liberals interrogated (possibly behind the blue plastic alongside Parkes Way) and subsequently turned by shadowy members of the labor executive. Turnbull threatens a staffer at the midwinter ball and the incident complete with notes (apparently recorded accurately by a man on the piss at the biggest piss up of the year) is relayed within minutes to the press. Swan is evasive as all hell when questioned over subsequent days giving the impression of guilt. Costello makes announcement that he will be leaving politics and finally Godwin drops his bombshell. Godwin is told to be a good chap go quitely and invalidity retirement awaits. Coincidence. I think not. All that awaits now is the handover of Godwin in exchange for some one the liberals are holding in the middle of Kings Avenue bridge.

IN the CT today it was reported that Grech faked the email because he couldn’t find the original. If that’s true, he’s really trashed his career and his health for less than nothing.

+ what thumper said.

The guy obviously suffered a severe meltdown whilst under immense pressure from the Rudd government to implement certain policies. He cracked.

But don’t get me wrong, his actions were deplorable.

I thought it was more a diagnosis of that terrible mental health problem, the one which affects so many people in positions of power and influence, who get found out to have been not entirely ethical in their behaviour, a bad case of IGC*.

* I Got Caught

I really have trouble getting a handle on this. Why would someone do this – so much to lose and so little to gain. It just dosn’t make sense.

How can this be seen in any other light than this man has done what was asked of him as a mole, then when it’s blown up on the Liberal’s faces they out him and say he’s had nothing to do with them. I do feel sorry for him with his condition, however he still broke the law. Admittedly, he was probably in a false delusion that the Liberal party would fall on the sword with him… but if he actually believed that, it shows the mental state he is in.

Why would a senior public servant forge a document so easy to be traced and verified, then hand it over to the Liberals as ammunition knowing that this would blow up in their faces and HE would be blamed? Sorry, I smell a tail between the Liberal’s legs as they distance themselves from all controversy to save face (not that there is much left). They must have given/promised some sort of benefits… why would someone risk their career and life for utterly no reason?

Interesting debate and I have wavered between calling for Mr Greche to be left alone and having him publically outed for what he did. I though about this a lot last night so here’s my 2 cents worth…

It appears that Mr Greche (and, I beleive, senior members of the Federal Liberal party) tried to bring down a democratically elected government for self-serving reasons. The fact that those within this conspiracy (and that’s what it was) used forged documents instead of a gun is a moot point, what they were effectively trying to do was run a coup by stealth. Just because it was a white-collar coup attempt it doesn’t take away from the seriousness of their intent.

A more simple example is one where a white-collar criminal robs a bank by creating a program that skims a few cents off every bank account in Aust. every week for a year. This person could easily net hundred’s of thousand of dollars, if not more. However, if a person enters a bank with a gun and demands money from the teller they will likely get a custodial sentence when caught (well, probably not in Canberra admittedly, but you get the point) even though they may have taken less money than that skimmed by the white collar criminal.

Again, just because Mr Greche and those he colluded with are senior public service officials who used documents rather than guns to attempt their coup does reduce the seriousness of their actions.

As for Mr Greche, I sincerely hope he recovers from what he is going though. Depression, or in fact any mental illness is not a pleasant experience. I know, I was there last year but there is a way back and I really hope Mr Greche finds this though the love and support of his family and friends. In a warped way I hope his recent actions were the result of his illness and not the other way around, as then I could at least understand what he tried to do as depression, etc. makes you do things that are totally out of character. I doubt, however, those in the Liberal party who colluded with Mr Greche could be seen in as charitable a light.

Just a thought, does anyone know what mental illness diagnosis Gretch has been given, which resulted in his long stay in hospital?

As far as I am aware you would need to be suicidal, or have an illness which made you a danger to yourself or others before staying on a ward for this length of time.

Schizophrenia? Manic depression? Psychosis?

Or just catch all “mental health problems”? Hmmmm?

pelican, your rant is purely political and shows no remorse for a person who is most obviously severely distressed and from most reports is quite likely to die from the stresses of the issue. You appear to be positively revelling in his (Grech’s) predicament and mental state.

No doubt he did wrong. but the questions need to be asked, why would someone destroy their life, their career, their everything, for something that was without doubt was going to be revealed as a fake?

Thumper,
Sorry for being “purely political” about a guy who was actively trying to bring down an elected government.
All of his stresses are directly related to his own actions and actions have consequences.
Of course I’m not reveling in his mental state but I am very happy that his conspiracy with the opposition has blown up in their faces and damaged the guilty parties.
Working hand in glove with the opposition probably gave him a personal kick that he was dancing with the big boys without realising he was playing with fire.
He also probably had a misguided belief that his beloved Liberal Party would reward his loyalty but it just don’t happen that way in real politics.
Furthermore, it was revealed today that he himself had attempted to give special treatment to a Liberal supporter while at the same time attempting to stitch up the Prime Minister and the Treasurer for the same offence but with forged documents.
Why did he do it? It’s called self interest and clearly he was deluded in thinking he could get away with it.
You seem to be arguing that my frank opinions (based on matters raised on the public record) are somehow more outrageous than what Mr Grech did, which I frankly find laughable.

Looking at what’s come out so far, Grech will probably be prosecuted. He’s broken a shoal of rules, and even admitted to it. Kerry O’Brien was pushing a few such lines tonight with Abbott, who played an awkward straight bat.

It is puzzling that no one in Treasury noticed the way he was heading, or suspected him of teh leaks which went back to when the Libs were in government.

A very intriguing story. I suspect Anna Keys may be on to something.

He certainly looks like he should be selling potions or wands or something arcane.

People need to stop trying to score cheap points are look at the truth that can now be revealed. Godwin Grech is an actor employed by the Labor Party for many years with the sole intent of embarassing a dedicated, hard working and great Australian in Malcolm Turnbull. This is typical of Rudd and the ALP. Turnbull’s only crime is to be too trusting of others and expecting them to have the same moral and ethical values as him and the other members of the Liberal party. Why won’t Rudd have a judicial inquiry into himself? What does he have to hide?

Or maybe I’ve been reading too much Piers Ackerman lately…

With are Potterists here farn. Back in you cup board.

Godwin’s back in his shop on Diagon alley, where he belongs.

I only have to read your “creating an insanity plea” comment to see what glee you have of his predicament and no real understanding that he is going through right now regardless of how he got there. Show some humanity and back off.

Pandy, it’s a turn-up to see you giving a damn about someone else’s feelings. You are usually the first with the crass or obscene remark. To answer you question: as much as anyone else here.

For the record, I’ve been working closely with a number of people with mental health issues over the last few years, and am sympathetic to their issues and needs. But these people had issues of far greater concern than the stress from being sprung doing something that appears to be (as someone else put it) a fabricated attempt to contribute to bring down the government of the day through means other than democratic election.

Re-read #23.
In the case of Mr Grech, my mind’s not closed, but I guess I’m bordering on dismissive. Not backing away from that. But not in the least flippant.

Abbott on 7.30 report tonight. Gold. I haven’t laughed so much for ages.

vg said :

…the reality is they pay…they get

I can live with that

Perhaps I’m too naive. A quick tour of various Government-funded websites has revealed ACT Policing working towards “a safer and more secure Australian Capital Territory”; the ACT Fire Brigade “protecting life, property and the environment” (cute website, too); and various federal agencies pledging their services toward furthering Australia’s national interests. I didn’t find any mention of serving the government of the day, except on PM & C’s website.

there’s the rub, see. patently grech’s delusions were so grand as to lead him to assume that his k’niving plans would go undetected as political havoc crashed around him, all the while dancing on stilt legs and rubbing his skinny fists together in some bizarre danse macabre of joy.

all uriah heep, for mine, very dickensian.

turnbull was just by dint of happenstance the poor suck at the top of the tower destined to fall farthest and hardest.

Al,
I know you are an expert at counting potholes in Ngnunnawal, but what right have you got to judge his mental health?

If this was a case of a Canberra girl who had been raped, had counselling and then went and talked about the incident to the media, would you have been so flippant and insensitive to her situation? Would you have come out and said, “She talked to the media, she has it coming” crap? Or is it because I suspect you like the fact that it muddies the Liberals and don’t give a toss about his mental state and enjoy persecuting this guy? I can assure you, in the state he is in, if he read your comment, it might even tip him over the edge.

His life is rooted. His bosses had the compassion to make him seek help. Just leave him be.

The image on win news tonight was the front of the public PSU at Woden (sorry – still remember Royal Canberra).

Thumper’s question is as mine – why would someone destroy their life, their career, their everything, for something that was without doubt was going to be revealed as a fake??

MWF said :

I’ll bet Gretch is in Hyson Green as a private patient with his private health insurance paying for his stay.

If so, I hope his health insurer sues the Liberal Party and Turnbull in particular for their contribution to his injuries and the resulting care that has had to be provided.

nathan said :

vg said :

jessieduck said :

I think it debases the role of the public servants to reduce it to simply serving the government of the day.

Bollocks, they pay ’em they own ’em

Does that go for coppers too, vg?

The independence of Police from the general machinery of government is well known but, at the end of the day and in reality, yes….they own ’em.

When large parts of an organisation’s budget is contingent on discretionary funding I can wax lyrical about independence all I like but the reality is they pay…they get

I can live with that

Geez pelican, such a caring person you must be…

Well, I’m not gull-ible and have always copped it sweet when the shirt hits the fan

I’ll bet Gretch is in Hyson Green as a private patient with his private health insurance paying for his stay.

vg said :

jessieduck said :

I think it debases the role of the public servants to reduce it to simply serving the government of the day.

Bollocks, they pay ’em they own ’em

Does that go for coppers too, vg?

It’s on the public record that this weasel has been a mole and toady of the Liberal Party for many years and was reporting directly to the previous PM, whatsisname.
In concert with the Libs he attempted to bring down a government with a forged document.
And when it blew up in their faces, he “didn’t feel very well”.
It was reported on WIN tonight that he has been in the psych ward since the scandal broke. How does that work when there are such limited resources for the mentally ill?
Is he getting special treatment and why hasn’t he been charged?
His re-appearance in public to coincide with the “utegate” report reinforces my view that he’s just trying to hide from the consequences of his own actions, which were carried out deliberately, over an extended period of time.
Why would he think anyone would believe what he says now?
On a positive note, this rat has destroyed Turnbull’s political career.

jessieduck said :

Just watched Turnbull’s press conference- threw Grech under the bus good and proper. The Libs have used and abused this guy and now they are ducking for cover.

Yes, the Labor party would not dare do such a thing.

Malcolm was naive and Godwin should be locked up for his criminal behaviour.

“I think it debases the role of the public servants to reduce it to simply serving the government of the day.”

Bollocks, they pay ’em they own ’em

The man is ill and in hospital. Leave him alone.

Hmmm, perhaps someone should have suggested this to The Australian…?

AG Canberra said :

Any public servant that uses his position to try and assist the opposition is a criminal. Lets not forget that public servants are paid (with tax payers dollars) to serve the government of the day.

There is a view that public servants are paid to serve the public while ministerial advisors are paid to serve the government of the day.

At times, public servants should assist the the opposition and other citizens by providing information in response to FOI requests, questions in estimates hearings, or simply requests by citizens for information on government programs.

This is different, though, from engaging in the political process in support of the opposition or the government.

Simply serving the government of the day could also involve criminal conduct.

I think it debases the role of the public servants to reduce it to simply serving the government of the day.

There are psychiatric wards other than PSU at Woden. There is also 2N at Calvary, which is a voluntary public ward, and Hyson Green, which is a voluntary private ward.

There are another couple of facilities, but a forensic mental health unit and a older persons unit are probably not the most appropriate settings…

jessieduck said :

Just watched Turnbull’s press conference- threw Grech under the bus good and proper. The Libs have used and abused this guy and now they are ducking for cover.

Well of course they have. They’re politicians. I’ve never understood people wanting to get involved with politicians, they’re basically all scum. Having been at university with quite a few people who went into politics as elected members and others as the behind the scenes apparatchiks they were and probably continue to be people that you wouldn’t piss on if they were on fire.

#11 YouWhat; couldn’t agree more. News Ltd “journalists” are unfortunately the print equivalent of those that work for A Current Affair and Today Tonight. They are completely without ethics. I would’ve also hoped that any hospital administration and government would have had the foresight to put into place restrictions on the scum that passes for a modern journalist even having access to those in psych wars.

No doubt that mental illness is terrible, but am yet to see anyone actually STAY at PSU for longer than a few hours. Canberra doesn’t have sufficient mental health facilities, and the Mental Health CAT are so overworked that almost everyone is released from PSU after a short consultation. Can hardly imagine ‘Dobby the house elf’ has managed to stay in a mental health facility all this time!

Just watched Turnbull’s press conference- threw Grech under the bus good and proper. The Libs have used and abused this guy and now they are ducking for cover.

It must be said, that he OP has it all wrong. Grech’s name (indeed the whole situation) is not Gothic in the least. As JB says, it is Dickensian. Most assuredly Dickensian! And anyone who claims otherwise has not read enough Dickens! Go to the library! You can borrow as many copies of Dickens’ work as you like now!

AG Canberra said :

Any public servant that uses his position to try and assist the opposition is a criminal.

even when they provide information to a Labor Opposition?

NoAddedMSG said :

Having seen first hand how very difficult it is for someone to get admitted to a psych ward…

Adults can be admitted to psychiatric wards against their will. For example, try telling a doctor that you frequently have suicidal thoughts. (I’m not saying this is a good or bad thing, just noting it for those who aren’t aware.)

I feel sure a bopard would help me in many ways…

YouWhat said :

The ethics of taking an interview from a man in a psychiatric unit is doubtful, at best. By definition he’s not in his right mind (and yes, he self-admitted, but the medical profession concurs or he wouldn’t be treated). Yet all of the media are happy to ignore the fact he’s in a vulnerable state and are off and running.

His email forgery and collusion with the Opposition were well outside the ethical bounds for a public servant, and as a senior figure he should damn well have known better, so no sympathy on that count.

Maybe his behavior was a symptom not a cause of his present mental state.

Dante said :

Totally agree. Mental illness is a serious matter and the OP seems to be treating it somewhat flippantly.

I wonder if Mr Grech contacted the Australian to speak with them as part of his treatment?

It’d be somewhat cathartic being able to speak the truth finally, and I’d imagine that would have been playing fairly heavily on his mind over the past weeks, if what has been published is true.

Apart from playing around with the Where’s Wally? idea, believe me there’s nothing flippant about the substantive issue in my post. While I’m sympathetic to the stress that has no doubt resulted from all this, Mr Grech created his own situation, as AG has pointed out. And speaking out to the Australian as he has done is only exacerbating things. It is any wonder that the media of the entire country is all over this today?

And I for one am interested in the inside line in that area of Treasury as a result of it all (but not expecting any actual info)…

Gothic v Dickensian JB? I guess that just one of so many areas I’m not as edumacated as you, especially when I’m writing something at 5am – thanks for pointing it out to everyone.

I was wondering what a bopard was. I thought, “Hey, that’s one for the dictionary!”

that’s ‘board’, of course – maybe weezi has a ‘bopard’ and that makes all the difference?!

The ethics of taking an interview from a man in a psychiatric unit is doubtful, at best.

indeed it is, but whoever suggested the media have ethics?

and plus one billion and one for #17 (dunno what bopard weezi is reading but mine seems to be about 999,999,999,982 posts short. i wonder where they went…)

#17

+1,000,000,000,000

NoAddedMSG said :

Pommy bastard said :

Not everyone who goes into a mental ward is mentally ill either…

So what, some of them are just in there to get their ingrown toenails seen to? Having seen first hand how very difficult it is for someone to get admitted to a psych ward, and just how sick they have to be before they can get in there, I am calling bullshit on this statement. Unless you have actual medical qualifications and have worked in the psych ward, in which case I may accept your assertions, but “my mate’s ex’s sister worked there once for a few days and said they weren’t really sick” simply doesn’t cut it.

Some are there for assessment. Some are there for drug and alcohol issues. Some are there for doing a good impression of a mentally ill person in order to get away from events in their lives. Some have personality issues which lead them to be taken as mentally ill. Some are in there detoxing.

Pommy bastard said :

Not everyone who goes into a mental ward is mentally ill either…

So what, some of them are just in there to get their ingrown toenails seen to? Having seen first hand how very difficult it is for someone to get admitted to a psych ward, and just how sick they have to be before they can get in there, I am calling bullshit on this statement. Unless you have actual medical qualifications and have worked in the psych ward, in which case I may accept your assertions, but “my mate’s ex’s sister worked there once for a few days and said they weren’t really sick” simply doesn’t cut it.

Totally agree. Mental illness is a serious matter and the OP seems to be treating it somewhat flippantly.

I wonder if Mr Grech contacted the Australian to speak with them as part of his treatment?

It’d be somewhat cathartic being able to speak the truth finally, and I’d imagine that would have been playing fairly heavily on his mind over the past weeks, if what has been published is true.

Leave the sick man alone.

There’s Brian Hennessy House as well.

disproportionately? I reckon he’s getting all he deserves. Any public servant that uses his position to try and assist the opposition is a criminal.

Lets not forget that public servants are paid (with tax payers dollars) to serve the government of the day. They are not paid to feel sorry for the other blokes and try and help them.

If this bloke isn’t delusional now – he certainly was when he fronted up to the Senate inquiry and (after a 90 minute strategy meeting with Abetz and Turnbull) spoke about an email he knew he himself had made up….

YouWhat said :

The ethics of taking an interview from a man in a psychiatric unit is doubtful, at best. By definition he’s not in his right mind (and yes, he self-admitted, but the medical profession concurs or he wouldn’t be treated). Yet all of the media are happy to ignore the fact he’s in a vulnerable state and are off and running.

+1

The ethics of taking an interview from a man in a psychiatric unit is doubtful, at best. By definition he’s not in his right mind (and yes, he self-admitted, but the medical profession concurs or he wouldn’t be treated). Yet all of the media are happy to ignore the fact he’s in a vulnerable state and are off and running.

His email forgery and collusion with the Opposition were well outside the ethical bounds for a public servant, and as a senior figure he should damn well have known better, so no sympathy on that count – but it’s very sad to see someone self-immolate so thoroughly and publically. He’s killed his career, damaged his physical and mental health, and quite probably put every personal relationship in his life under severe strain if not demolished them entirely. No wonder he’s in a psych ward; I’d be depressed too. The poor bugger is going to disproportionately pay for his mistakes for years to come.

It was probably a rhetorical question, I think, weeziepops.

Granny, if the OP knows that, why did he ask whether we have a psych ward?

Not everyone who goes into a mental ward is mentally ill either…

Whatsup said :

The man is ill and in hospital. Leave him alone.

+1. No one goes to a PSU for fun.

In answer one of GA’s questions, perhaps the police take the monitors because they are mac users. No one’s yet told them what those strange boxes under people’s desks are.

Whatsup said :

The man is ill and in hospital. Leave him alone.

He allowed an interview – he put himself back in the public arena.

The man is ill and in hospital. Leave him alone.

weeziepops said :

There is a ward at the public hospital and Hyson Green at Calvary.

Um, I’m pretty sure Gungahlin Al does know that ….

Of course we have a psych ward. Did you think we shipped people with mental illness interstate or something? There is a ward at the public hospital and Hyson Green at Calvary.