Why bother paying parking fines?

johnboy 10 August 2009 48

The Canberra Times brings word of the expectedly shambolic state of parking fine collection in the ACT:

    At January 1, more than 160,000 unpaid fines were sitting on the rego.act database, some dating back to 1980, and all but 22,300 were overdue.

Apparently there’s $23 million worth of them.

Why not just slap the unpaid fines onto the next rego fee?


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48 Responses to Why bother paying parking fines?
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Clown Killer Clown Killer 5:01 pm 14 Sep 09

It really would depend on the car in question I suppose. By way of comparison the current modle Holden SS Commodore sedan (1774kg) has a kerb weight 7kgs more than the equivalent SS ute (1767kg).

That aside I still believe that the ‘hundreds of dollars more’ claim still doesnt stack up, because the diference in registration between what Average Joe Sedandriver pays and what Average Joe Tradesman pays is irrellevant. It’s the diffenece between registering a vehicle of a particular weight as a goods carrying vehicle or a passenger vehicle which is around $65.00.

dvaey dvaey 4:40 pm 14 Sep 09

Clown Killer said :

Is that based on the same weight catagory dvaey? There’ll be a greater diference if you compare vehicles from diferent weight catagories.

My two vehicles are different weight category, as I also presume in the original comment about 2 utes and a car being ticketed that the utes were larger/heavier than the car being ticketed.

busgirl said :

p1 said :

How about, rather then a database as suggested above, the state governments simply send a list at the end of each year to the ATO, who check it before sending out the refunds.

One of the few examples of where there is a ‘link’ between the databases of two separate government agencies is the Centrelink maternity allowance. ..snip.. I don’t see any such logical link between a person’s parking fines and their annual income tax return.

What about child support payments? If you owe child support and receive a tax refund or some other government grant, isnt your child-support debt money collected from that before being passed onto you? I also know that centrelink and ATO do perform data-matching, as I applied for centrelink payment after losing a job several years ago, about a month later I received a letter from Centrelink saying theyd performed data-matching with ATO (about 6 months late), and tried to insist I was still working, until I took the documentation in and proved their data-matching was out-of-date.

Clown Killer Clown Killer 3:05 pm 14 Sep 09

Is that based on the same weight catagory dvaey? There’ll be a greater diference if you compare vehicles from diferent weight catagories: http://www.rego.act.gov.au/registrations/regofee.htm

dvaey dvaey 2:09 pm 14 Sep 09

Clown Killer said :

Utes are classified as commercial vehicles and allowed to park in loading zones, no permit required (they get to pay hundreds of dollars extra for rego as it is).

The diference in registration is around $63pa. Goods carrying vehicles are allowed to stop in loading zones whilst loadig and unloading.
Perhaps checking your facts before sprouting this nonsense might be an idea in future

I hate to point out the ‘facts’, but my hatchback costs me $680/yr for rego whereas my ute costs just under $800. This is a price difference of $120, while its not ‘hundreds of dollars’, its almost an extra 20% on top.

One funny thing is, a friend has a 2-seater wagon which is classified as a passenger vehicle, even though it is heaveier and has more storage space than my 5-seater ute which is classified as a goods vehicle, simply because of the body shape.

busgirl busgirl 2:05 pm 14 Sep 09

p1 said :

How about, rather then a database as suggested above, the state governments simply send a list at the end of each year to the ATO, who check it before sending out the refunds. Unless telling the ATO who has been illegally parking (AND not paid the fine) is a beach of privacy, where is the problem.

One of the few examples of where there is a ‘link’ between the databases of two separate government agencies is the Centrelink maternity allowance. It is a non-income tested payment to encourage parents to immunise their children. When the time comes for Centrelink to make this payment to a parent, a ‘call’ is made to the Australian Childhood Immunisation Register (maintained by Medicare) to first match the Centrelink record to an existing Medicare record, then determine whether the child in question is up to date with their immunisations. The return message is a Y or N indicator and that is all. If the return message shows a Y then the payment is made. If it shows an N then the payment is not made. Even though there is a logical link between the Centrelink payment and the child’s immunisation status, no other information is allowed to be accessed, or returned, under any circumstances. I don’t see any such logical link between a person’s parking fines and their annual income tax return. An ‘in-house’ solution would probably be more appropriate – where the outstanding fines are added on to the cost of renewing one’s license or car registration.
That’s my two-cents worth anyway…

Clown Killer Clown Killer 1:41 pm 14 Sep 09

Utes are classified as commercial vehicles and allowed to park in loading zones, no permit required (they get to pay hundreds of dollars extra for rego as it is).

The diference in registration is around $63pa. Goods carrying vehicles are allowed to stop in loading zones whilst loadig and unloading. A ute parked in a loading zone that isn’t loading or unloading is illegally parked.

Perhaps checking your facts before sprouting this nonsense might be an idea in future

el el 12:08 pm 14 Sep 09

TP 3000 said :

I don’t know why we bother with parking cops.

Yesterday out at Gungahlin there was this car parked at the back of the Gungahlin Marktplace bus stop (no parking zone). Now the car had a disabled sticker on the dash. But the half stoned driver (she stumbled to her car & sadly no cops around at the time) was 2 metres away having a coffee. I couldn’t see any reason why she needed to park there & if only I knew she was the driver at the time. I could of made up some bs story & took some photos.

Another experience was out at Kippax shops. Now there were 2 utes & a car parked in the loading zone, no vechile had any special sticker on the dash, but the parking cop comes up books the car has a glance at the other loading zones, does a few laps of Kippax carpark & drives off.

I am not having a go at ALL parking people, in fact I get into nice chats with the inspectors & coincidentally I’ve never been booked. But they should try to be fair (& book everyone but me).

Huh? Ever consider that the ‘half stoned’ looking driver may have a) looked that way and b) been stumbling to her car DUE TO HER DISABILITY? Sounds like you’ve already made up a BS story, no photos required.

Your other experience – Utes are classified as commercial vehicles and allowed to park in loading zones, no permit required (they get to pay hundreds of dollars extra for rego as it is). This is why the idiot in the car got ticketed in the loading zone and not them.

Perhaps checking your facts before sprouting this nonsense might be an idea in future?

p1 p1 11:51 am 14 Sep 09

…ummmm…I’m no legal eagle, or anything even close, but I think that would pretty much be classed as a breach of the Privacy Act. The information held on the databases of two different government agencies is kept separate for a reason. How very Big Brother of you….

How about, rather then a database as suggested above, the state governments simply send a list at the end of each year to the ATO, who check it before sending out the refunds. Unless telling the ATO who has been illegally parking (AND not paid the fine) is a beach of privacy, where is the problem.

Some times I get a little creeped out by the idea of a “Big Brother” government approach, but other times I can’t help but think how simple it could be to have drivers licence, rego, medicare, library card, passport, creditcard, etc all on the one card/database.

busgirl busgirl 10:31 am 14 Sep 09

TP 3000 said :

Why not just have a National database & all unpaid Government monies is listed in this database, when you complete your tax return this database is checked & any owed monies come out of your tax return.

…ummmm…I’m no legal eagle, or anything even close, but I think that would pretty much be classed as a breach of the Privacy Act. The information held on the databases of two different government agencies is kept separate for a reason. How very Big Brother of you….

Thumper Thumper 8:18 am 14 Sep 09

Hehe, yep. Sure have 😉

caf caf 10:03 pm 13 Sep 09

Thumper, I’m sure you’ve heard of a barrack-room lawyer 😉

dvaey dvaey 7:04 pm 13 Sep 09

TP 3000 said :

Another experience was out at Kippax shops. Now there were 2 utes & a car parked in the loading zone, no vechile had any special sticker on the dash, but the parking cop comes up books the car has a glance at the other loading zones, does a few laps of Kippax carpark & drives off.

Having just purchased my first ute, Ive learnt that utes are classified as ‘Goods Carrying Vehicles’, where cars are classified as ‘Passenger Carrying Vehicles’. One difference between the two categories is that Good Carrying Vehicles pay a significantly higher registration fee. A ‘Passenger Carrying Vehicle’ doesnt really have any business in a loading zone anyway, whereas a ute may or may not be loading, but at least has registration as a Goods Carrying Vehicle.

Pommy bastard said :

Just outside my office window are four parking spots,.. clearly labelled “Community Nurses No parking”.
..snip..
Yesterday we had the delight of a “four in a row” (four cars in these dedicated spots, all with yellow envelopes on the windscreens.) Watching the reactions of drivers when they return to find the fines, from utter despair, through resigned amusement, up to incandescent rage, is a treat.

This reminds me of when I was sitting in Emergency at the Canberra hospital, as two parking inspectors ticketed a vehicle moments before the owner came out the main entrance helping an elderly lady with a walking frame. I witnessed the ‘incandescent rage’ as you describe it. As the rent-a-cops entered the building, I told them off in no uncertain terms and neither of them could understand why I felt the way I did, even after pointing out the elderly lady being helped into the car they just ticketed.

Thumper Thumper 2:29 pm 13 Sep 09

All fines are illegal under the letter of Australian Law. There is no debate.

Well, there you go.

Pommy bastard Pommy bastard 10:15 am 13 Sep 09

Just outside my office window are four parking spots, clearly labelled “Community Nurses No parking”. A great number of people take this to read; “Community Nurse, No parking, except on weekends, after 5.00pm on weekdays, or any bloody time you think you may get away with it.”

Yesterday we had the delight of a “four in a row” (four cars in these dedicated spots, all with yellow envelopes on the windscreens.) Watching the reactions of drivers when they return to find the fines, from utter despair, through resigned amusement, up to incandescent rage, is a treat.

The parking spots are wanted, needed and used at all times, (when you don’t park in them,) by mental health nurses, you deserve all you get.

TP 3000 TP 3000 11:16 pm 12 Sep 09

I don’t know why we bother with parking cops.

Yesterday out at Gungahlin there was this car parked at the back of the Gungahlin Marktplace bus stop (no parking zone). Now the car had a disabled sticker on the dash. But the half stoned driver (she stumbled to her car & sadly no cops around at the time) was 2 metres away having a coffee. I couldn’t see any reason why she needed to park there & if only I knew she was the driver at the time. I could of made up some bs story & took some photos.

Another experience was out at Kippax shops. Now there were 2 utes & a car parked in the loading zone, no vechile had any special sticker on the dash, but the parking cop comes up books the car has a glance at the other loading zones, does a few laps of Kippax carpark & drives off.

I am not having a go at ALL parking people, in fact I get into nice chats with the inspectors & coincidentally I’ve never been booked. But they should try to be fair (& book everyone but me).

vg vg 11:14 pm 12 Sep 09

“I am always trying to teach and educate people with the true laws in Australia”

That’s a real shame, as you have no idea what you are talking about. A council ‘tax’??

Spideydog Spideydog 8:07 pm 12 Sep 09

Australian Subject : Mmmm Hmmm . . . . . alfoil hat for you eh !!

How bout don’t be inconsiderate, park you car legally and voila ….. no parking fines. Pretty simple concept.

If you choose not to accept these “laws” don’t own a vehicle.

Australian Subject Australian Subject 7:27 am 12 Sep 09

All fines are illegal under the letter of Australian Law. There is no debate.

At the end of this article is a link to a parking fine letter which you could try sending to the council in regards to all parking fine in Australia. It basically asks the council afew simple questions to verify that they have permission to collect a tax from you for using public roads.

Simply put, they do not have any authority to hand out parking tickets, and more than anything rely on your voluntary compliance, ignorance and consent to hand over your hard earned cash to these corrupt business. Now days prosecuting officers are trained to reply to such letters with false arguments because they have absolutely no clue of the real laws or hoping you don’t. They are masters at intimidating the public with lies.

Also note that time measuring devices (meters) are exempt from the provisions of the National Measurement Act 1960 (Cth), so we cannot use this argument in our letters. This has been confirmed by Dr Richard Brittain from the National Measurement Institute.

It can be quite frightening to be challenging such large corporations, but we must remember that only a chapter 3 Commonwealth court (see your Australian Constitution) has full jurisdiction to act judicially, so we must put our trust in the system that was designed to protect our rights. The most important aspect is expression of compassion towards these people. We must learn not to hate or argue with them, for this is what they want from us. Our notices should be an educational instrument asking honest questions and proof of claim, without any prejudice towards these everyday ordinary people who work for these corporations.

I am always trying to teach and educate people with the true laws in Australia. I tell everyone I speak to that it’s a very valuable learning experience challenging councils and even the police force (the proper way).

http://www.religiousword.com/2009/09/parking-fines-update/

ChrisinTurner ChrisinTurner 10:07 pm 11 Aug 09

Suspending a driver’s license or a vehicle’s registration is only effective if there is a reasonable likelihood of being caught when the suspension is ignored. What happened to the system that was being trialled months ago to easily detect these people?

Ceej1973 Ceej1973 1:51 pm 11 Aug 09

bd84 said :

Most of the fines will be from the Diplomatic community who got their licences from the back of a corn flakes box and from those living interstate. The ACT Government doesn’t have arrangements with other jurisdictions to recover fines or susend licences like they do for ACT residents. I believe there was a report from our friend the auditor-general a while ago on this matter, not much has changed by the looks.

BD84. What a ridiculous comment. Do you know any Diplomats. Maybe you work for TAMS and know some stats that the rest of Canberra doesnt. I do know a large number of Diplomats. They do have to pay fines as a matter of fact (well actually the Embassy does)which is frowned upon by their respective Government when it becomes an ongoing issue. If Diplomats didnt have bright blue plates that said look at me, I wonder if your opinion, like many Canberrans, would be so discriminative. Maybe you want to find that Auditor generals report and posting it on Riotact before making such outlandish judgements.

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