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Your feedback wanted on cycling map

By johnboy - 16 July 2012 14

map

I’m wracking my brain to think of a time in my life where a paper map of cycling infrastructure would ever have been of any interest to me. And I write that as someone who has lived large chunks of his adult life without a car, entirely reliant on the bicycle for transport.

But this is Canberra and I suppose a lot of people like to make things official.

So Simon Corbell has announced the start of public consultation on a Draft Canberra and Queanbeyan Cycling and Walking Map.

“Canberra’s network of cycling and walking paths is second to none, and they are enjoyed on a daily basis by thousands of Canberrans,” Mr Corbell said.

“The Government has created a new document that maps all of these pathways but need to get the feedback of the community to ensure it’s accuracy.

“Those best placed to let the government know if there are mistakes are those who use the cycle and walking paths on a daily basis, and we are asking these Canberrans to come forward and share their expert knowledge.”

The new Canberra and Queanbeyan Cycling and Walking Map replaces the previous map published in 2005 and provides on-road cycling routes, shared paths, unsealed paths and roads and free bicycle parking facilities.

Here’s the map.

Perhaps more importantly the data’s going into google transit.

What’s Your opinion?


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14 Responses to
Your feedback wanted on cycling map
patrick_keogh 2:37 pm 20 Jul 12

FioBla said :

I assume you guys actually contribute to Openstreetmap then. Because it could do with some work.

Yes I do. Yes it does.

FioBla 1:02 pm 20 Jul 12

charliebrownsbrother said :

It’s nice that it’s going into Google transit, but personally I’d prefer to see the Government donate the data to Open Street Map (which already has a great cycle map view) instead. (Also, for other map-nerds out there, Walking Papers makes it easy to print your own map).

Especially if they’re asking for more data, the OSM data is Creative Commons by Share Alike, and if I remember correctly wasn’t Katy G big on open government data for a while?

patrick_keogh said :

Some more general questions… are you planning to make this data available in .GPX format or .KMZ format? Are you offering this data to commercial GPS makers such as Garmin? Are you planning to make this data open source so that it can be incorporated into OSM?

patrick_keogh said :

Deckard said :

Google Maps now has cycle route directions in beta mode. They seem fairly up to date.

Their dataset is equally wrong. About 50% of the routes that it suggests are clearly silly. As a simple example the suggested route from my house in Kaleen to Mitchell takes me on a winding tour of the Gungahlin Cemetry! Another suggestion is long but otherwise OK and one goes 1500m out of the way because it doesn’t know about a section of path that the ACT Govt one does know.

I don’t know where they got their data from but it would make most sense if we had one correct dataset rather than the current situation where we have two or three (ACT Govt, OSM, Google) which are all wrong in different ways and where we will have to spend 3x the effort to get them updated.

I assume you guys actually contribute to Openstreetmap then. Because it could do with some work.

Which may highlight the peril of only have “one data source”.

http://osm.org/go/uNlFx9x4–

patrick_keogh 8:53 am 17 Jul 12

Deckard said :

Google Maps now has cycle route directions in beta mode. They seem fairly up to date.

Their dataset is equally wrong. About 50% of the routes that it suggests are clearly silly. As a simple example the suggested route from my house in Kaleen to Mitchell takes me on a winding tour of the Gungahlin Cemetry! Another suggestion is long but otherwise OK and one goes 1500m out of the way because it doesn’t know about a section of path that the ACT Govt one does know.

I don’t know where they got their data from but it would make most sense if we had one correct dataset rather than the current situation where we have two or three (ACT Govt, OSM, Google) which are all wrong in different ways and where we will have to spend 3x the effort to get them updated.

Innovation 9:42 pm 16 Jul 12

Funny this wasn’t mentioned a few days agoxxxxx

Still it’s a good start. I like how they show the main bus routes too for those of us who bike and ride. They could also overlay their topography map.

Pity about the file size (it won’t fit on my old phone) but I presume this is necessary to get all the detail. If they provided a similar detailed and easily downloadable file for all of their bus routes and times I’d upgrade my phone (without having to get internet access) and be a very happy chappy.

Deckard 7:28 pm 16 Jul 12

Google Maps now has cycle route directions in beta mode. They seem fairly up to date.

patrick_keogh 4:04 pm 16 Jul 12

More things already logged:

There has been a fairly major road realignment around Uriarra Rd/Cotter Rd, and significant changes in the cycle routes..

There is an off-road dirt route linking the path near Inman Place, Kaleen with Ellenborough Street near the GDE overpass that is not shown..

Bellenden Street should be marked in yellow, connects Barton Hwy to Mitchell..

Agar Street (off Ginninderra at AIS) should be marked in Yellow (links off-road route to on-road route)..

FioBla 3:39 pm 16 Jul 12

charliebrownsbrother said :

Especially if they’re asking for more data, the OSM data is Creative Commons by Share Alike, and if I remember correctly wasn’t Katy G big on open government data for a while?

cyclist said :

Even better, given that so much of this will need to be ‘croadsourced’
for correctness anyway, would be to put the whole thing into
OpenStreetMap or similar, so folks can just fix the data, and use it in
other was you would never have imagined!

A new “croud-sourcing” effort will be needed soon, as some Openstreetmap data is being deleted/redacted this month. Openstreetmap moved from Creative Commons to some other license, and the data of some contributors is not being transferred during this switch.

If you want to grab the ACT (NSW actually) data before this switch, to store on your Garmin, it’s at: http://www.osmaustralia.org/garmin/AU/NSW.img.zip

There is a new asphalt bicycle/pedestrian path from Waldock Street all the way to Marist College, which could be the trunk road you were referring to. It’s already on Openstreetmap, but not on the Corbell map.

My computer really struggled with the size of those PDFs. 🙂

cyclist 2:52 pm 16 Jul 12

To avoid others duplicaitng my feedback, I said:

Please review the list of cycling capital works projects (even just the
list of press releases would be a good start I suggest), to ensure each
is included in the updated map.

Some glaring omissions:
– Bike path along gininderra drive at lake ginniderra peninsula
(diddams close) is marked as a on-road lane, not a off-road path.

– Bike path around perimeter of black mountain peninsula is not
marked.

– Bike path at Jerrabombra Wetlands is not marked as upgraded (is now a
wide trunk bike path, marked as narrow footpath)

– Bike path alignment at Clare Hollend House (hospice) looks wrong

– Path the the airport is not marked

– The road/path alignment at ‘Barronjoey drive’ (near yarramundi reach)
looks wrong with the NCA arboretum works.

– Has the new trunk path from Pearce to the parkway been built? (I’m
northside, but I saw the consultation announcement)

– The Mount Rogers Community Center at Spence is marked as a school.

– None of the 4 drinking fountains at 35 13 S / 149 01 E exist (and I
suspect most of the others don’t either)
– The drinking fountain at john night memorial park is mis-located, as
is the toilets and playground.

– There is no toilets near the crossing of Gininderra creek and
Gininderra drive.

– The BBQ at 35 13 S / 149 04 E (at park near bike path closest
downstream from dam on gininderra creek) have been disabled (per sign on
them BBQ).

– There is a second playground on Mcdermott place, Lake Gininderra
south of the one marked.

– The Barry Drive bike path and onroad cycling lane is not marked

– Menindee Dr is shown as continuing under Kings Ave. It has been
closed for this section for as long as I remmember
– It is also shown as not existing on the single-lane section
(Carrilion/Blundel’s cottage)

I could find more, but clearly this map needs a lot of work. I’m glad
this is only a draft – is there no method by which these non-road
alterations are made onto a GIS system when the projects are
implemented?

Finally, it would be more productive if this was handled in public
interactive forum, so that others don’t have to report the same
issues.

Even better, given that so much of this will need to be ‘croadsourced’
for correctness anyway, would be to put the whole thing into
OpenStreetMap or similar, so folks can just fix the data, and use it in
other was you would never have imagined!

canberran85 2:39 pm 16 Jul 12

I initially scoffed at the idea of a public consultation for this, but after a quick look at the map realised it was a very good idea. There are some major improvements to this map based on the previous web version (paper copies have been hard to get for a while), but there are quite a few errors or updates which haven’t made their way into this map yet. The more public feedback that goes into this map the better. I put in some comments this morning and it was surprising straightforward to do so.

This may is a fantastic tool to use as a route planner for cycling and re-emphasises how cycle friendly Canberra is compared to other major Australian cities.

patrick_keogh 1:35 pm 16 Jul 12

My feedback so far (sent using their web form) is below. I guess the summary is that this dataset is not ready for prime time and needs lots more feedback. So I urge others to have a look at their common routes and make suggestions!

—————————————————————————————————————————————–
If this is meant to be a cycling map that includes “unsealed paths” then it should have more definitive marking for the off road paths that cyclists can use in Canberra Nature Park in areas such as Bruce Ridge and Mount Aislie. It says (somewhat correctly) that cyclists should stick to formed roads but does not show them..

The right side of Mouatt St is shown as on-road. It is off-road..

The heavily used link behind Campbell High linking to Treloar Street is not shown..

Isn’t there cycling infrastructure on Clarrie Hermes? It isn’t shown..

The Onya bike shop in Civic is not shown.
The Bike Shed Braddon is shown on the wrong side of the road.
Ride 365 in Belconnen is not shown.
I think Col’s in Josephson Street is closed.
The bike shop in Florey is not shown.

The section shown in Magenta linking the Barton Hwy at Bellenden Street to Inman Pl Kaleen is overstating it a bit..

Torrens Street should not be shown as a viable route. Too narrow, too many parked cars, too much traffic..

Near Lyons, isn’t this showing a route over a footbridge across Yarralumla Creek that no longer exists?.

There are lots of “missing links” that need to be included if this is to be used for route planning. Simple examples are Heysen Street to Devonport Street, Dairy Flat to Newcastle Street. Without these links, route planning software won’t work well..

Cycle route around the foreshore of Black Mountain Peninsula is missing..

Fairbairn Av/RMC/Airport access need some work. In fact airport routes should not be “off the map”..

Yamba Drive to Phillip along Launceston Street needs a look..

I think that Pedal Power ACT should be in the list of contacts..

A secondary route should be shown along Bandjalong in Aranda. It is a missing link from the Bindubi Street path and the foot bridge over Belconnen Way..

Please give some thought to giving road/MTB ratings to the off-road routes. Some are definitely MTB only..

Significantly more of the Barton Highway should be marked in Green..

Some more general questions… are you planning to make this data available in .GPX format or .KMZ format? Are you offering this data to commercial GPS makers such as Garmin? Are you planning to make this data open source so that it can be incorporated into OSM?

charliebrownsbrother 1:33 pm 16 Jul 12

It’s nice that it’s going into Google transit, but personally I’d prefer to see the Government donate the data to Open Street Map (which already has a great cycle map view) instead. (Also, for other map-nerds out there, Walking Papers makes it easy to print your own map).

Especially if they’re asking for more data, the OSM data is Creative Commons by Share Alike, and if I remember correctly wasn’t Katy G big on open government data for a while?

Aubergine 1:23 pm 16 Jul 12

As long as they print it on the plasticised paper which can be folded and crumpled forever without ripping along its seams. Some maps are on such crappy (recycled-content) paper that they fall apart after just a few uses. Also lets you put it in your jersey pocket and not worry about it getting ruined by sweat.
GPSs are great but sometimes you just want to have a printed map.

Primal 12:54 pm 16 Jul 12

As a (very) casual runner, that could be a useful tool for finding new paths around my area. I don’t have a particular need for a paper version, but the mere existence of the information is a good thing.

JonahBologna 12:15 pm 16 Jul 12

I use the paper cycling map all of the time. It is a great scale for planning trips around town; you can see every single street and path.

I welcome an updated version.

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