ACTION's soiled bus drivers need your help

Deadmandrinking said :

georgesgenitals said :

Deadmandrinking said :

If it’s such an easy job, George, why don’t you quit your laborious public service/riot-act /solitaire gig, then?

See? It’s easy to call other people’s jobs easy. Especially when you don’t do them.

I’m not public service – I work in a job that takes years of formal trainng, then years more experience to become good at. And I earn several times the basic driver salary.

FWIW, I reckon I could learn to drive a bus. Like I said before, I have never claimed driving a bus is easy – I said it’s something lots of people could learn to do. DMD, do you seriously think that only a few people could learn to drive a bus, and hold down a job as a bus driver? Why or why not?

I never said ‘only a few people’. It is a skill, it takes time to get good at. You have responsibility for passengers. You invest that time in training, you should get paid a reasonable amount.

Just like I never said it was ‘easy’. And my point, specifically, is that the amount of training required to be a bus driver is small when compared to lots of other professions.

“It is a skill, it takes time to get good at.” True, but the time taken to acquire the skill, if you can already drive, is not large. To become an entry level bus driver takes nothing like the training needed for the professions listed as examples by other posted (eg teachers, child care workers, police). Many common professions require far more training.

Let’s not let this degenerate into an argument that ‘everyone should get more’, because that’s a whole different story. Relative to other jobs and professions, I don’t think bus drivers are underpaid.

So back to my question to you: DMD, do you seriously think that only a few people could learn to drive a bus, and hold down a job as a bus driver? Why or why not?

georgesgenitals said :

Deadmandrinking said :

If it’s such an easy job, George, why don’t you quit your laborious public service/riot-act /solitaire gig, then?

See? It’s easy to call other people’s jobs easy. Especially when you don’t do them.

I’m not public service – I work in a job that takes years of formal trainng, then years more experience to become good at. And I earn several times the basic driver salary.

FWIW, I reckon I could learn to drive a bus. Like I said before, I have never claimed driving a bus is easy – I said it’s something lots of people could learn to do. DMD, do you seriously think that only a few people could learn to drive a bus, and hold down a job as a bus driver? Why or why not?

I never said ‘only a few people’. It is a skill, it takes time to get good at. You have responsibility for passengers. You invest that time in training, you should get paid a reasonable amount.

BigDave said :

Yeah vg, it’s just driving a bus FFS! There’s absolutely nothing else involved of course!
In that case, reckon you could go to the depot first thing in the morning and be off and running by 6am? Ever done the job? It’s that easy so you should be able to.
Your post shows exactly the extent of your knowledge here.
Once again, people commenting who know nothing about the subject they claim to know so much about.

Not 6am? Noooooo… What time is that finish, 4pm?

Why would he want to do that, I’m sure he is more than happy in the job he is in, shift work is a lot harder than a 6am start…

And yes all it is is driving a bus? The job description is the same as the title…

BigDave said :

Yeah vg, it’s just driving a bus FFS! There’s absolutely nothing else involved of course!
In that case, reckon you could go to the depot first thing in the morning and be off and running by 6am? Ever done the job? It’s that easy so you should be able to.
Your post shows exactly the extent of your knowledge here.
Once again, people commenting who know nothing about the subject they claim to know so much about.

what does happen ? what is a typical day in the life of a bus driver ?

BigDave said :

If it’s all so easy, so little effort for so much reward, why are Action having a hard time recruiting? You’d think they’d be bashing the door down. But no, they ain’t!

I have open positions right now I can’t fill, starting salary 6 figures. There’s a skills shortage right now.

Yeah vg, it’s just driving a bus FFS! There’s absolutely nothing else involved of course! In that case, reckon you could go to the depot first thing in the morning and be off and running by 6am? Ever done the job? It’s that easy so you should be able to. Your post shows exactly the extent of your knowledge here. Once again, people commenting who know nothing about the subject they claim to know so much about.

Quick somebody call a Waaaaahmbulance!

BigDave said :

If it’s all so easy, so little effort for so much reward, why are Action having a hard time recruiting? You’d think they’d be bashing the door down. But no, they ain’t!

Maybe, just maybe, it has to do with the fact that unemployment is basically nothing in the ACT. Lots of businesses/industries are having a hard time recruiting these days, there are so many jobs around that as easy as driving a bus is, there are even easier jobs paying similar amounts. Unless your goal in life is to be a bus-driver, $20-30/hr aint gonna make you change your current (possibly similarly paying) career.

Yeah vg, it’s just driving a bus FFS! There’s absolutely nothing else involved of course!
In that case, reckon you could go to the depot first thing in the morning and be off and running by 6am? Ever done the job? It’s that easy so you should be able to.
Your post shows exactly the extent of your knowledge here.
Once again, people commenting who know nothing about the subject they claim to know so much about.

If it’s all so easy, so little effort for so much reward, why are Action having a hard time recruiting? You’d think they’d be bashing the door down. But no, they ain’t!
Perhaps it’s because they all know that Stanhope and his cohorts will go out of their way to shaft you. Maybe they don’t fancy copping an ear bashing from Joe Public. It could be the fact that for at least your first three years you do nothing but night shift because you are at the bottom of the ladder.
Whichever it is, $30 an hour isn’t working!

Deadmandrinking said :

If it’s such an easy job, George, why don’t you quit your laborious public service/riot-act /solitaire gig, then?

See? It’s easy to call other people’s jobs easy. Especially when you don’t do them.

It’s driving a bus FFS. It’s easy work.

Deadmandrinking said :

If it’s such an easy job, George, why don’t you quit your laborious public service/riot-act /solitaire gig, then?

See? It’s easy to call other people’s jobs easy. Especially when you don’t do them.

I’m not public service – I work in a job that takes years of formal trainng, then years more experience to become good at. And I earn several times the basic driver salary.

FWIW, I reckon I could learn to drive a bus. Like I said before, I have never claimed driving a bus is easy – I said it’s something lots of people could learn to do. DMD, do you seriously think that only a few people could learn to drive a bus, and hold down a job as a bus driver? Why or why not?

Buzz819…Teaching an easy job? Did you skip high school then?

Yes your opinion might be harsh (and in la la land) and yes, you are entitled to an opinion, but so are people who rant on street corners.

I fully support a pay-rise for trolley boys.

To (attempt to) clear up the confusion: $59,272 referred to in The Canberra Times is the nominal salary for full time drivers.

The first paragraph of The Canberra Times article suggests that a brand new driver wille arn this after an 18 day training period – but this is far from correct. It will take six months as a ‘driver in training’ to graduate to the top pay scale. It can then take anything from 2 to 4 years before a part time driver can obtain a full time position.

Part time drivers are only guaranteed 20 hours/week (compared to 38 hours for full time drivers). So the minimum salary for part time drivers (on the top pay scale) is $31,196 – although it is unlikely that a part time driver will only to 20 hours/week for a full year. Depending on the shift hours, they can be paid up to 30 hours/week ‘ordinary hours’ (on which superannuation and leave entitlements are calculated) and whatever else they can earn through extra hours and weekend work (which do not accrue super or leave).

The $75,000 figure referred to would be for a full time driver and therefore would require $15,728 of overtime (roughly 526 hours/year or 10 hours a week of overtime). Drivers who perform a broken shift receive a 12.5% penalty, so those drivers would earn about $66,600 before overtime. (Note: these are simplistic calculations – not 100% accurate.)

The main disagreement with the new EBA centres around the ratio of full time to part time drivers. If this ratio is changed (more part time/less full time) it may increase the waiting period for part time drivers to obtain full time positions – and this in turn can lead to an increase in driver turn-over due to the low pay that part time drivers earn.

Another area of disagreement is compulsory weekend work. All drivers are being expected to work an 11-day fortnight, but with the rostered weekend not attracting any penalty rates, superannuation or leave entitlements.

Deadmandrinking said :

If it’s such an easy job, George, why don’t you quit your laborious public service/riot-act /solitaire gig, then?

See? It’s easy to call other people’s jobs easy. Especially when you don’t do them.

Why would he do that? He has an easy job that pays him more money?

Your nuts!

I’m not a teacher or a weather man but think those jobs are easy and done by crazy people, doesn’t mean I am going to quit my job to do it.

Bus drivers drive around in circles all day, how is that hard?

Yeah they are supposed to know the road rules and show respect to customers that are most probably irate that the service is shit and you can’t get from one side of Canberra to the other in a timely manner. I understand that dealing with people like that, plus not really having any one to talk to for long periods of time would be considered as hard, but I think your basic Trolley boy down at Coles of Kmart has a lot harder job and doesn’t get paid any where near as much AND more people depend on those guys on a daily basis.

Boo Hoo to the bus drivers… I know harsh, but it’s my opinion.

If it’s such an easy job, George, why don’t you quit your laborious public service/riot-act /solitaire gig, then?

See? It’s easy to call other people’s jobs easy. Especially when you don’t do them.

…it isn’t a job which “most people” can do. As someone said earlier it takes skill, patience and a fair amount of courage.

And about 18 days training before you get behind the wheel.

BigDave said :

An average driver earns $75K per year??? Where the hell does that information come from? Cloud Cuckoo Land??
My father is a driver, and his basic salary is around $52,000 per year. For him to earn even $60-$65,000, he’d have to do some serious overtime, weekend and public holiday work. In effect, he’d probably never leave the place.
I can’t see how they can justify saying $75K is “average”. I would say that that is pretty rare and if someone does put in those sort of hours and does get that kind of money, I’d say they’ve bloody earned it so deserve every last cent of it.
With respect George, it isn’t a job which “most people” can do. As someone said earlier it takes skill, patience and a fair amount of courage. Something which “most people” these days do not possess.
And to quote woo-woo – “I wonder about people who call others’ jobs easy, it shows a severe lack of insight and empathy.”

The numbers come from the Canberra Times article I referred to earlier. They are given clearly, along with the base income.

Please don’t misunderstand – I’m not saying driving a bus is an easy, lazy job that earns megabucks. Nor am I saying drivers shouldn’t get a regular pay increment.

What I am saying is that most people, given appropriate training, could learn to drive a bus. This is not meant to be an insult, but rather I am trying to make the point that jobs that many people could learn to do tend to have a larger pool of people willing to do so, and thus do not attract a premium salary/wage. The reason I’ve been picking at it, is because I really dislike some the entrenched union type culture that we’ve seen from a poster here, and I trying to separate the fact from what seems to me to be the union fiction.

Sorry, I got that wrong. His salary is around $56,000 per year. So, for him to earn the “average”, he’s got to make another third of this again from overtime alone!

An average driver earns $75K per year??? Where the hell does that information come from? Cloud Cuckoo Land??
My father is a driver, and his basic salary is around $52,000 per year. For him to earn even $60-$65,000, he’d have to do some serious overtime, weekend and public holiday work. In effect, he’d probably never leave the place.
I can’t see how they can justify saying $75K is “average”. I would say that that is pretty rare and if someone does put in those sort of hours and does get that kind of money, I’d say they’ve bloody earned it so deserve every last cent of it.
With respect George, it isn’t a job which “most people” can do. As someone said earlier it takes skill, patience and a fair amount of courage. Something which “most people” these days do not possess.
And to quote woo-woo – “I wonder about people who call others’ jobs easy, it shows a severe lack of insight and empathy.”

Davo111 said :

vg said :

Could have fooled me with some of the driving displays I’ve seen of late by them, unless ‘give way because I’m bigger’ is incorporated into the ARR.

Umm the road rules actually state you need to give way to buses. /facepalm

But it also says that they have to take reasonable care when entering/changing lanes. Not start moving, put the indicator on for one flick then move anyway.

Does it also state that bus drivers are exempt from red light camera’s?

I followed three different buses yesterday, they all went through at least one red light.

BigDave said :

Does anyone even bother to read that overpriced non-entity, much less take any notice of anything on the front page?

The bit I found interesting was that the average driver earns $75k per year. Pretty good for what is, effectively, a job that could be done by most people with a short training period.

If Jon Stanhope started to do more than be an apologist for the hopeless management that has brought this situation about then than would be a good start. An appalling network. Expensive fares. A minority of drivers who are just downright dangerous in their driving habits, Buses that don’t turn up with no advice to the waiting passengers at the interchanges. Bad maintenance. The list goes on and on. Yet Jon and his office think it is all rosy and keep standing up for the management and decrying the workers. It’s beyond a joke people.

Does anyone even bother to read that overpriced non-entity, much less take any notice of anything on the front page?

BigDave said :

Wars won’t be won or lost because of what a few motormouths think and say on here!

That’s true, but this isn’t the only place such opinions are being expressed, including the front page of today’s Canberra Times.

vg said :

Could have fooled me with some of the driving displays I’ve seen of late by them, unless ‘give way because I’m bigger’ is incorporated into the ARR.

Umm the road rules actually state you need to give way to buses. /facepalm

I wouldn’t imagine that they’d be too worried as the majority of peoples’ opinions on here aren’t worth a squirt of the proverbial either and certainly don’t reflect the views of most Canberrans as far as I can see. Wars won’t be won or lost because of what a few motormouths think and say on here!

Bussie said :

Some cock wrote:

>Bussie said :

“Once again, Dan’s rant should never have been posted here, it was meant to go out to a few mates. “

“PPS. please forward to anyone worth a squirt of piss.

ie people who might support the drivers’ campaign not you bunch of Liberal staffers, small-minded suburban reactionaries and private-school snobs.

Translation: anyone who doesn’t tow the union line isn’t worth a squirt of piss.

Keep it coming. Hope your colleagues are reading this to see what a fine job you’re doing raising support for the cause.

It seems like everybody here is on the same side!

The number one reason why people behave badly and do a half-arsed job is if they feel undervalued/overworked. If ACTION treats their employees better by maintaining adequate pay (the national average pay is $66’000 pa; as living costs in Canberra are a touch above the average for Australia it stands to reason that the average salary should be a bit higher as well) bus drivers would probably perform better.

I must admit that I would never have the stones to deal with bus passengers all day. Any workplace where you do not have a single other member of staff for support is hell on earth (I know, as I used to do live-in home care for disability services), and anything involving customers? Forget about it. If bus drivers are underpaid and, more worryingly, under-employed they will be stressed and incredibly pissed off all the time! This will equate to them probably not giving a heck-ball about their standard of work.

Australian workers are legislated to have a half hour break once they have worked more than five hours. What is not mentioned here is the discretionary breaks that most employers give (and that I can even recall being given when I was 14 and working at an awful fried chicken shop which will remain unnamed) which is when you say “Hey, I’m just ducking to the loo” or some such thing. This is obviously not possible on a bus.

I wonder about people who call others’ jobs easy, it shows a severe lack of insight and empathy.

Bussie said :

not you bunch of Liberal staffers…..

And here’s me thinkin’ that Labor was in power and your beef was with them. My mistake.

(oh and the BLF were dinosaurs even in the 1970s, let alone now. If you lot want to be led around by undemocratic, corrupt thugs like Norm Gallagher, good luck to you. I have been a bus driver and I know it’s not a ‘menial’ job by any means. It takes skill, patience and a fair amount of courage to deal with the general public at their worst every day. While I don’t support a lot of the comments above, I wouldn’t want to be associated with you attitude either, ‘Bussie’.

I’m a student and i regularly take the bus to and from school everyday.
Though it annoys me when bus drivers are rude with change and frequently miss stops, they also have to put up with a lot young misbehaving students.
Since I’m already aware they are paid a lot, i think they should have at least a 10 minute break in between, as it is often the young and elderly that catches the bus and it would be safer to improve the conditions of the bus drivers.

Some cock wrote:

>Bussie said :

“Once again, Dan’s rant should never have been posted here, it was meant to go out to a few mates. “

“PPS. please forward to anyone worth a squirt of piss.

ie people who might support the drivers’ campaign not you bunch of Liberal staffers, small-minded suburban reactionaries and private-school snobs.

Bussie said :

Once again, Dan’s rant should never have been posted here, it was meant to go out to a few mates.

“PPS. please forward to anyone worth a squirt of piss.

We workers would be a hell of a lot better off if there were still unions like the BLF around.

Twat.

Bussie said :

Once again, Dan’s rant should never have been posted here, it was meant to go out to a few mates. Sorry m’lud I should have displayed the proper deference to my rightful betters and be thankful for whatever they choose to give me.

>This kind of macho buffoonery when the way of the BLF. If you want to be seen as professionals, and earn the respect and pay that comes with being a professional, lose the knuckle dragging attitude.

We workers would be a hell of a lot better off if there were still unions like the BLF around.

This sort of post does nothing for your position. If you want the general public to support you, you should try to act like less of a bogan union thug.

You don’t have to act like a knob to get what you want.

Buzz wrote:

>I agree that every employee, no matter which profession, deserves reasonable breaks during a shift. At this stage, most public servants are looking at receiving a 2% pay rise – in line with CPI. Suck it up.

ACT public servants have overwhelmingly rejected (88% IIRC) the same below inflation pay rise as we have. We do not want to just suck it up like you and all the other ultra-passive people here advocate. Our pay and conditions are not natural phenomena they are the result of conscious human action which can be struggled against.

>However, what strikes me most about this post is the drone of the union mentality – aptly expressed both by Dan Smash and by busses:

“To those of you think us stupid bus drivers deserve to be paid less for our menial jobs take your snobbery and f*** off.”

… and what was that about iguanas?

Once again, Dan’s rant should never have been posted here, it was meant to go out to a few mates. Sorry m’lud I should have displayed the proper deference to my rightful betters and be thankful for whatever they choose to give me.

>This kind of macho buffoonery when the way of the BLF. If you want to be seen as professionals, and earn the respect and pay that comes with being a professional, lose the knuckle dragging attitude.

We workers would be a hell of a lot better off if there were still unions like the BLF around.

MrPC said :

@67 georgesgenitals: $60k is pretty weak in a city where low end houses cost $350k. Incomes for low to medium skilled jobs should be about 30% of the cost of an entry level dwelling, based on historical norms.

The incomes of people in higher skilled jobs should start at about 33% of the cost of an entry level dwelling.

To be fair, the $60k is probably a pretty rough estimate, and I’d expect the actual numbers to vary a bit, depending on shifts and hours worked.

I think the housing price issue is more a symptom than a driver though, and I’m not sure it’s relevant to assess income in this manner. We all know, though, that the ACT has the highest average levels of education and income in the country, and this means that workers who earn closer to the national average can appear disadvantaged with respect to other locals.

As for the historical norms of house prices, consider that dwellings are bigger and nicer than ever before, many households have two incomes rather than one, and the disposable component of average income has risen a lot over the past few decades. I’m not sure historical prices going back many decades necessarily hold true following this level of social change.

@67 georgesgenitals: $60k is pretty weak in a city where low end houses cost $350k. Incomes for low to medium skilled jobs should be about 30% of the cost of an entry level dwelling, based on historical norms.

The incomes of people in higher skilled jobs should start at about 33% of the cost of an entry level dwelling.

—

Of course, given that we’re talking about territory public servants here, it’s worth pointing out that the main reason for wage pressure here is because the cost of housing is so absurd here.

The issue would be moot if after five years service they are given a standard 99 year lease on a residential block as part of their package. Obviously they’d then need to put a house on it, but so long as it’s understood they could put up one of those Mordek cheapies, nobody would mind. And if they already own a home, they can on-sell the block of land they get within 12 months of getting it, and make a windfall. If they leave their territory job within five years of getting the block of land, they have to start paying land rent on it, or sell it, and the territory gets the unimproved value of the land.

The territory suddenly gets staff that are economically stable, and who aren’t going to quit for 10 years (5 to get the block and another 5 to ensure they don’t have to start paying land rent). The cost to government would be negligible since they control the land releases anyway and just have to earmark a few extra blocks each time above and beyond what they would have released anyway, and those of us in the federal public service will then get to start pushing for similar terms to be extended to us.

How many hours a week do bus drivers work? ‘Cos by my reckoning, $30 an hour by 40 hours per week = $1200 a week, which equates to over $60k per year. This seems reasonable to me.

Drivers are entitled to a meal break after 5 hours. That’s in line with workplace legislation. There are no provisions for allocated breaks within the 5 hours before the meal break. Refreshment and comfort stops within the 5 hours are outside the cope of the CA and are therefore by arrangement between management and the drivers. Four minutes would generally be considered adequate for a comfort break for a normally functioning person. Many transport drivers would kill for regular comfort stops.

Drivers get a composite rate which covers overtime, shift penalties, annual leave loading and some public holiday payments. Drivers are paid a loading for Christmas Day and Good Friday. The composite rate in CAs like this are normally worked out on average penalties across the span of hours, together with the base pay, divided by the weekly hours. It’s a system generally reckoned to be fairer across the workforce, as long as shifts are shared equally over the year.

There are provisions in the CA for drivers to negotiate a higher rate for hours worked outside the normal span of hours, (read: 0130 – 0500hrs) this would apply to special events presumably or unforseen happenings.

The composite rate of $29.90 per hour doesn’t look too bad when compared to the rate in the relevant award: $15.80 for a bus driver according to the Transport Worker’s ACT Award 2002. Penalties for 7 day shifts usually equate to an additional 50-60% of pay across the week so the ‘composite’ award rate would be around $15.80 x 1.6 = $25.30 per hour.

Canberra’s bus drivers might not be the highest paid around, they might not have the best conditions around, but to say that they are hard done by as the OP seems to be intimating is stretching the bounds of credibility.

Oh, and Ceej1973 needs to scan the industrial instrument a little more closely, seems that his skills are being forgotten in ze fazerland.

Problem solved.

http://www.ilcaustralia.org/search4.asp?state=QLD&page=3&MC=13&MinC=16

ML-585 said :

Ceej1973 said :

They are already entitled to a break within each 5 hour block…

I’ve seen nothing in the current agreement about ‘a break’ within each 5 hour block. What clause are you referring to?

Pretty sure that is a law that applies to all workers in Australia.

anivyl said :

How many times have we:

1) miss (sic) the bus because the bus drivers decide that the bus stop is in a “lonely” enough location to ignore? I work as a nurse in a real quiet location. I rely on the bus. sometimes, at 11pm at night, the bus just decides to go straight from Belco to City without stopping in the suburb where I am in. And if I stop the first bus I see elsewhere, to go to civic via suburbs, I am yelled at because I make them go home “later” than they would if they haven’t picked me up.

2) (in case anyone wants to argue it’s because they need to catch up with schedule) seen a bus driver sit at a bus stop for a few minutes to “slow down” so they can maintain the schedule – because they have miss some bus stops?

3) get yelled at again because we don’t have the right change (and the money we have in hand is $5?)?

4) get ignored at bus stops because they themselves can’t read the signs (or know the notices being put up at the bus stops)?

5) see how bus drivers ignore people who have accessibilities needs? e.g not lowering the bus down on the side so they can get on?

I can go on, but my list of greivances is not what the purpose is here. yes, they are a varied bunch just like you get the good and the bad at different customer service center. there are a good bunch, and then there are the bad. However, considering how I have only really encountered 5 good bus drivers (of which 2 has quit) in the last 7 years of my bus usage, I find it really really hard to support them in their needs.

(1) This sounds wrong. If a bus genuinely is not turning up according to the timetable – complain directly to ACTION (13 17 10). Don’t make wild accusations here. Drivers are paid to drive the routes they are allocated – not to go home early. But they are not taxi drivers they will drive the route assigned and nothing else.

(2) No, not because they have missed bus stops. Timetables are designed based on a certain amount of passenger load. If services (especially at night) do not carry many (or any) passengers then the bus will run early. You should actually be grateful that the driver stops to “slow down” because this means that he/she will be on time for any passengers who might be waiting further along the route (rather than early).

(3) If you are going to catch a bus then you should make the effort to carry the correct change. If you catch the bus regularly then why aren’t you using pre-paid faresaver tickets?

(4) Every bus stop should (although some don’t) have a sign which says “Signal Bus”. The passenger wating at the bus stop needs to clearly signal that he/she wants to catch the bus. A handy tip at night – if you have a mobile phone turn on the backlight and wave that in the air.

(5) Not all buses can be lowered. Even some that are meant to – the lowering mechanism doesn’t work. Don’t assume that it’s the driver’s fault.

Ceej1973 said :

They are already entitled to a break within each 5 hour block…

I’ve seen nothing in the current agreement about ‘a break’ within each 5 hour block. What clause are you referring to?

Ceej1973 said :

LMAO- “Canberra drivers not paid OT…”. Then what is clause 34 of the relevant Certified Agreement all about then? Selective blindness when it comes to getting the publics attention maybe?!?!?

Sorry Ceej1973 – clause 34 is for administration staff, not for bus drivers. Drivers receive no penalty rates for overtime worked.

Ceej1973 said :

miz said :

I understand the report stating how canberra buses are more expensive than ‘best practice’ and their drivers are paid more is wrong – eg, Sydney drivers are paid more AND get overtime (ACTION drivers don’t – no wonder they have a hard time getting weekend shifts covered).

LMAO- “Canberra drivers not paid OT…”. Then what is clause 34 of the relevant Certified Agreement all about then?

Actually, the relevant part is Schedule 2.

I assume miz was referring to the fact that Sydney drivers are paid penalty rates when working overtime or on weekends (either time-and-a-half or double time), while ACT drivers aren’t. But it’s completely wrong to blithely say that Sydney drivers are paid more: bus operators are paid $22.28 per hour.

ACT drivers get $29.90/hr during “ordinary hours”, i.e. 5:30am-1:30am Monday-Saturday and 6:30am-10:30pm on Sundays and public holidays, but the reason the rate is so much higher is that it’s a composite rate which includes penalties for overtime, weekends, split shifts etc.

That seems utterly backward to me; it’s gotta be hard to feel good at the tail end of an overtime broken shift at 1:30am when you’re not even getting paid extra for it.

Good unions are good. Bad unions are not.

I also echo the sentiments of those saying the uncalled for comments in the OP will do few favours in garnering support. It’s a foolish approach, as has been discovered. To be fair that message was probably not intended for a forum such as RiotACT. Perhaps we should be grateful that us readers are considered “worth a squirt of piss”.

It is fair and reasonable to expect ACTION employees can have adequate time for a break. Unfortunately for them, there are enough dodgy bus drivers on public display to damage the reputation of their profession. So, when the time comes for public support you’ll find it a very quick way to gather feedback on the issues the general public have with bus drivers.

I rarely catch a bus, so I am quite probably speaking out of my arse, but listening to the tales of my significant other who used to catch the bus to work every morning I can’t see why you would bother if you had a suitable alternative. For her it was walking the three or so kilometers to work. A decision she came to after being tired of arriving at her stop on time and not knowing if the bus had already been or if she should wait for 15-20 minutes in case it was still coming.

I don’t deny the life of an ACTION employee has its tribulations, any job dealing with the general public does, but getting a reasonable accuracy rate on the published timetables would be a nice start before seeking public support.

After my altercation with a bus this morning coming to work on my pushie this morning I’m now in 2 minds about this.

Do I now think of all bus drivers as arrogant twats in 5 ton killing machines who think they own the road and can pull out beside me, forcing me into the opposite lane without so much as an acknowledgement of my presence, and fack ’em?

Or do I let them have the cash so they can afford to go get an eye and personality test?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

miz said :

I understand the report stating how canberra buses are more expensive than ‘best practice’ and their drivers are paid more is wrong – eg, Sydney drivers are paid more AND get overtime (ACTION drivers don’t – no wonder they have a hard time getting weekend shifts covered).

I think bus drivers put up with a lot and deserve a pay rise in line with the cost of living. Eg, very rough, pissed, stinky, yelly woman on bus with own personal (leaking) goon yesterday. On 8 o’clock morning bus. Pheeeew!

LMAO- “Canberra drivers not paid OT…”. Then what is clause 34 of the relevant Certified Agreement all about then? Selective blindness when it comes to getting the publics attention maybe?!?!?

“Driving a bus is a specific skill, that takes rigorous training to get good at”

Could have fooled me with some of the driving displays I’ve seen of late by them, unless ‘give way because I’m bigger’ is incorporated into the ARR.

Yes, it takes some training, but they aren’t finding a cure for cancer…..just driving a bigger vehicle. Do A380 pilots get more than ones who fly Jumbos?

I understand the report stating how canberra buses are more expensive than ‘best practice’ and their drivers are paid more is wrong – eg, Sydney drivers are paid more AND get overtime (ACTION drivers don’t – no wonder they have a hard time getting weekend shifts covered).

I think bus drivers put up with a lot and deserve a pay rise in line with the cost of living. Eg, very rough, pissed, stinky, yelly woman on bus with own personal (leaking) goon yesterday. On 8 o’clock morning bus. Pheeeew!

I agree that every employee, no matter which profession, deserves reasonable breaks during a shift. At this stage, most public servants are looking at receiving a 2% pay rise – in line with CPI. Suck it up.

However, what strikes me most about this post is the drone of the union mentality – aptly expressed both by Dan Smash and by busses:

“To those of you think us stupid bus drivers deserve to be paid less for our menial jobs take your snobbery and f*** off.”

… and what was that about iguanas?

This kind of macho buffoonery when the way of the BLF. If you want to be seen as professionals, and earn the respect and pay that comes with being a professional, lose the knuckle dragging attitude.

I understand the report into the buses, which stated that canberra bus drivers got more money (etc) than ‘best practice’, was quoted incorrectly – for example, they earn way more in NSW, and get overtime (no overtime here in the ACT – no wonder they have difficulty getting weekend drivers).

I think bus drivers put up with a lot and deserve a decent pay rise in line with the cost of living.

Agree with you entirely, Deadmandrinking. A sensible and very true post. +1 yourself.

George, where did I say it’s that bad a job? We’re fighting for some pretty minor improvements really.

Felix, we are not entitled to 10mins break every half hour. We are entitled to 4 mins between runs in peak times and 5 mins in off-peak. There’s a good chance of running late in peak times so often no break is taken. Even though we are entitled to those breaks no matter how late we are and if we are going to be commencing a run more than 10 minutes late we are allowed to drop although most drivers are too conscientious to do that.

To those of you think us stupid bus drivers deserve to be paid less for our menial jobs take your snobbery and f*** off.

+1 BigDave. Driving a bus is a specific skill, that takes rigorous training to get good at. The job is a fundamental contribution to society. They are just as important as Public Servants, sometimes even more so, as are RN’s, aged care workers and child-care workers (especially the former two, once you baby-boomers reach the end of the line).

georgesgenitals said :

In real terms, everyones’ salary trends downward constantly unless an increase is granted. Ultimately, though, an employer will generally seek to pay the minimum needed to keep employees working and motivated (ie market rate based on skills and output). I think that inflation is a problem for employees, not business owners. People need to manage their own career to combat this problem.

The market rate for labour is subject to inflation just as it is for other commodities. Inflation is absolutely a problem for business owners – it causes the cost of their inputs to rise, and that includes labour. Luckily for them, it causes the cost of their sales to rise too, so the net effect should be zero in the long run.

I also think that nurses, child care workers etc. earn far too little, but that’s an issue which they should also take up.
dvaey, there are a few more buses that run at those times if you check more closely. I was actually talking about start and finish times anyway, which is obviously going to be earlier and later than bus runs actually start or finish and also includes spare drivers, interchange & depot staff. Your colleagues obviously made the right decision then!
anivyl, bus drivers don’t determine their own breaks, the shift does. I also don’t think that if you miss a bus someone goes home early or has a longer break. I think you are drawing a long bow there and it’s just in your opinion in any case.

Yes, that’s the answer Clown Killer! $12-$15 per hour! How many people do you think would be interested in being out there in those conditions at midnight for that pay? You wouldn’t have a bus service, so more people would be moaning! The only sort of people you’d get for that kind of money wouldn’t necessarily be someone you’d want driving you around.
Your point about bus driving being a menial task is exactly what is wrong with most peoples’ attitudes towards bus drivers in general. They think it’s a job that is below them so they get upset when they find out that bus drivers earn a good wage. Perhaps it’s because it’s possible they are earning more than them.
Suck it up or leave? So, if things aren’t right, they must leave the job instead of trying to fix these problems thereby making a better workplace for all? That’s nonsensical! If you were being messed around at work, you’d want to get it put right too wouldn’t you?
Why not put child care workers wages up into line with bus drivers? Or is that too much of a menial task too?

responsibility for 50-60 lives equates higher pay? well, let me just state a few “pay rates” for you then. as someone has mentioned, $12-15/hr is for child care workers. $15-$18/hr for aged care workers. $24-$30 for RNs at hospitals, and significantly less ($21-$25) for aged care RNs who has a workload of anywhere between 20-60 people.

was I whinging about how bus drivers treat me? yes. for every time that I miss the bus, it means they get home early. it means they get longer breaks. perhaps I didn’t state it clearly enough… the bus drivers designate themselves breaks after every route. there are some who plow on and continue on to the next time table in 5 minutes, while there are others just meandering around the terminal. It’s not very obvious at bus terminals I think, and some bus drivers choose to stay in the bus during their “breaks”. The most obvious would be around suburban terminals (such as at the end of the route in Tuggers). These are what I have seen on a frequent basis, no matter where I’ve stayed and what routes I take.

While I have no qualms about them getting home early and having longer breaks (who wouldn’t if they have a chance to?), I am upset about missing buses, particularly when it’s the last bus I miss in the middle of the night.

No, I wouldn’t take the job because I hate driving as it is. However, if they didn’t like the job, like you say, there’s always other jobs. yes, the job is sucky, so is just about every other job at the bottom of the rung. people forget us when we are at the bottom. but if we are seen on a frequent basis, and if people take advantage of what there is (e.g longer breaks, earlier time off) at the cost of other people (such as their safety at night) – then DO they deserve a pay rise?

good working conditions should be in place, I agree. however, I won’t sign a petition asking for conditions that I know they already gift themselves at my cost.

BigDave said :

Here’s what I find funny. All you guys whinging about how Action drivers are, in your eyes, paid too much. Well, why don’t you join up and earn all this fantastic money too if it’s so easy and undeserved???
Oh wait, it’s not that easy is it?

Last year, 2 of my colleagues did EXACTLY that, and tried to encourage others in the workplace to join ACTION as well. He still worked casual shifts with us from time-to-time and we always expected him to realise that as good as his ~$30/hr payrate was, they’d come back.. well, 12 months down the track and theyre both still with ACTION, raking in the dough, and claim its the best decision they ever made.

BigDave said :

I also don’t fancy 4.45am starts, 1.30am finishes…

A quick look at the ACTION timetables, shows 1 bus that runs before 6am, and 2 that run after 11pm. Sure, there may be a handful of staff who start or finish at those hours, but Id suspect a majority of the workers dont.

If you want to pick an occupation that needs support, for the reasons you mention, maybe you should support nurses or something. They work more and make less than a bus driver who sits in their comfy seat for almost their entire shift.

If responsibility for people is the determinant then it would be perfectly reasonable to bring bus drivers salary into line with child care workers – say $12-15/hr should do it.

All this moaning about all the responsibility and the hours and the inadequate rest breaks and obnoxious passengers completely misses the point. Bus driving is a meanial task. It aint rocket surgery. That’s the whole point of shit jobs – lousy pay and poor conditions. Suck it up or leave.

Felix The Cat – I think you’ll find that bus drivers have far more responsibility than you do, hence the higher pay, so I don’t think it’s fair to make a comparison between yourselves. Let’s face it, you aren’t solely responsible for 50-60 lives at any one time are you? If it bothers you that much, quit your job and join them. I know you won’t though. Too many people (especially on RiotACT) are quick to give bus drivers a slating but have no idea what the job is actually like and would never do it themselves.

Bussie said :

The original post probably shouldn’t have gone out in public in that form but I entirely agree with the sentiment.

As for all the people whining that they haven’t received a pay rise for years and thus we don’t deserve one either why don’t you get off your arses and organise your own strike?

So the dad of a friend said we get paid more than firies, how about giving a source for firies pay and then I’ll tell you what we get paid so we can make a real comparison.

A govt report which by pure coincidence was released just at bargaining time said we are overpaid so it must be true?

If it’s that bad, why don’t you go and find a better job?

dvaey said :

Bet you’re all public servants sitting there on your 18th “internet browsing” break of the morning.

Actually, Im in the transport industry too, but unlike ACTION drivers, I dont complain that Ive had one single payrise in the last 5 years of just over $2/hr (barely covers the increased cost of fuel). Just like ACTION bus drivers, I dont receive penalty rates, however unlike ACTION bus drivers who sit in their comfy seat for the entire shift, Im required to load/unload my vehicle.

And as for why Im on here at this hour? I work night shifts (something that doesnt happen in ACTION, where it seems all the buses are off the road an hour before-sunrise/after-sunset), so kindly place your ’18th internet browsing break’ comment where the sun dont shine.

I’m also in the transport industry and I didn’t get anywhere near even a $2/hr payrise in the last 5 years. ACTION base payrate is $10/hr more than mine and I don’t get 10 mins break every half an hour like they do, my only break (1/2 hour lunch) in my 10 hour day comes if and when I’ve got time to take it. Like dvaey, I am required to load/unload my vehicle myself and if I went on strike I too would be out the door so fast my head would spin.

Here’s what I find funny. All you guys whinging about how Action drivers are, in your eyes, paid too much. Well, why don’t you join up and earn all this fantastic money too if it’s so easy and undeserved???
Oh wait, it’s not that easy is it? And, second thoughts, I don’t want to be abused and spat on by people, sometimes used as a punchbag, treated like dirt by Stanhope & Co.
I also don’t fancy 4.45am starts, 1.30am finishes, weekends and public holidays all with no penalty rates, high concentration levels at all times leading to stress & headaches, unrealistic timetables (hanging on for a pee ain’t good for you, you know), ignorant motorists, suicidal cyclists, irate customers, drunks, mentally unstable people, foul smelling people, aging buses with seats that kill your back and an almost defunct ticketing system which breaks down on you every five minutes.
Yeah…think I’ll leave it too. Overpaid? I think not.

According to http://www.sharedservices.act.gov.au/docs/agreements/ACTION_Collective_Agreement_2007.pdf, it doesnt look like the drivers are recieving a reduction in breaks at all, if they arent already getting them. They are already entitled to a break within each 5 hour block, and the pay rates are above the Award rates that the Agreement has listed, and which the Employees signed off against. So unless you take your case to the Fair Work Ombudsman and they find a relevant Award apart from the one listed in the Agreement, then there doesnt seem to be any issue here apart from the fact that the Employes will have to “bargain” for thier loo stops.

Firstly, I am all for bus drivers needing a break just about… every time they finish a route sounds reasonable enough. I believe too if they aren’t paid right, they should be so.

However, and I am sure regular bus users notice this, ACTION bus drivers makes it hard to support them in any thing sometimes. how many times have we:

1) miss the bus because the bus drivers decide that the bus stop is in a “lonely” enough location to ignore? I work as a nurse in a real quiet location. I rely on the bus. sometimes, at 11pm at night, the bus just decides to go straight from Belco to City without stopping in the suburb where I am in. And if I stop the first bus I see elsewhere, to go to civic via suburbs, I am yelled at because I make them go home “later” than they would if they haven’t picked me up.

2) (in case anyone wants to argue it’s because they need to catch up with schedule) seen a bus driver sit at a bus stop for a few minutes to “slow down” so they can maintain the schedule – because they have miss some bus stops?

3) get yelled at again because we don’t have the right change (and the money we have in hand is $5?)?

4) get ignored at bus stops because they themselves can’t read the signs (or know the notices being put up at the bus stops)?

5) see how bus drivers ignore people who have accessibilities needs? e.g not lowering the bus down on the side so they can get on?

I can go on, but my list of greivances is not what the purpose is here. yes, they are a varied bunch just like you get the good and the bad at different customer service center. there are a good bunch, and then there are the bad. However, considering how I have only really encountered 5 good bus drivers (of which 2 has quit) in the last 7 years of my bus usage, I find it really really hard to support them in their needs.

Unions are good, when I worked in Real Estate, we did not belong union, I wanted to but was told there wasn’t one for us, I find that without unions the employer’s think they can get away with just about anything.

Thanks for the pay rates Nick D. Seems like a fairly standard CA, shouldn’t complaints be dealt with and over by the time a new CA is in place?

If you need a job were you can pee or smoke whenever you choose then don’t become a bus driver I would suggest…

NickD said :

dvaey said :

Not to mention, if I went on strike and my company lost money, I wouldnt expect to be employed after half a shift, better known a full week.

You could take your employer to court then: it’s illegal to sake people who are striking during bargaining periods.

jake555 said :

Tell us what they are paid, then we can decide whether it’s enough.

Could you please post your occupation and salary as well then so “we” can also pass judgement on you? Current ACTION salary rates are on the internet at http://www.sharedservices.act.gov.au/docs/agreements/ACTION_Collective_Agreement_2007.pdf and don’t look very high to me compared to what most public servants are paid.

Thanks NickD. But I don’t need to post my salary as I’m not the one asking for people to sign a petition for a payrise and better conditions.

BTW, why question my question, then tell me where to find the answer? If I wanted to look it up I would have. No worry, you just go on signing petitions for things when you don’t have all the facts. Good luck.

The original post probably shouldn’t have gone out in public in that form but I entirely agree with the sentiment.

As for all the people whining that they haven’t received a pay rise for years and thus we don’t deserve one either why don’t you get off your arses and organise your own strike?

So the dad of a friend said we get paid more than firies, how about giving a source for firies pay and then I’ll tell you what we get paid so we can make a real comparison.

A govt report which by pure coincidence was released just at bargaining time said we are overpaid so it must be true?

I agree with what was said above – once you start calling the people you want to support you names, it’s all over.

Having said that, it may be that you have legitimate grievances. For those who suggest that the bus drivers are well paid and that they should just lump it, think about this:

Unemployment in the ACT currently sits at 3.3% or so. Given that a budget has just passed without any real cuts to the public service, it’s likely to stay there. Then think about how many of our bus drivers are getting on a bit, maybe looking to retire soon.

If we sit back and just have a crack at bus drivers, who will drive the buses – even with the decent pay, who is left over to hire? And how well will our taxi services (and our roads) cope with the increased load of ex-bus passengers?

Those who simply enjoy attacking others have obviously not used an ACTION bus in some time. The drivers are a varied bunch, but each day they put up with some pretty aggressive car drivers on the roads, not to mention a fair few mentally ill customers on their buses.

One thing I have learnt so far in life is that many jobs are a lot harder than they look from the outside. So I think we give credit where it’s due.

Pork Hunt said :

Haven’t bosses learnt anything in a century and a half????

No – the dumber ones still think that treating staff poorly pays off.

Pork Hunt said :

Power in Unity

Hmm, damn shame about all that corruption though

If it wasn’t for Unions, we’d all be working 14 hours a day six days a week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_hour_day

Workers in the UK got an 8 hour day in 1847 and here we are in 2010 still arguing about a 10 minute piss break.

Haven’t bosses learnt anything in a century and a half????

I’m a union member for a good reason.

Power in Unity

jake555 said :

Tell us what they are paid, then we can decide whether it’s enough.

A quick google brings up info for ACTION recruitment including payrates.

SALARY: On the successful completion of the training program, the salary is a composite rate based on a GSO 5 classification plus composite to Bus Operator in training level of $25.82* per hour.

After a period of three to six months of service (depending on prior experience), if you are successful in passing the necessary assessment to drive articulated buses, you will be upgraded to a General Service Officer Level 6 plus composite rate to Bus Operator of $28.75* per hour.

Casual Employment – predominantly driving Saturday and/or Sunday, Current rate of pay is $34.50 per hour which includes 20% casual loading.

These figures are correct as of 6/11/08

God you people are stingy!

dvaey said :

Not to mention, if I went on strike and my company lost money, I wouldnt expect to be employed after half a shift, better known a full week.

You could take your employer to court then: it’s illegal to sake people who are striking during bargaining periods.

jake555 said :

Tell us what they are paid, then we can decide whether it’s enough.

Could you please post your occupation and salary as well then so “we” can also pass judgement on you? Current ACTION salary rates are on the internet at http://www.sharedservices.act.gov.au/docs/agreements/ACTION_Collective_Agreement_2007.pdf and don’t look very high to me compared to what most public servants are paid.

Tell us what they are paid, then we can decide whether it’s enough.

I like how if you can’t afford to lose your job (or just don’t want to risk it happening) and are not participating in the strike, you are either a brown-noser or a scab.

While your grief seems legitimate, the tone of your “call to arms” does not help your cause.

Bet you’re all public servants sitting there on your 18th “internet browsing” break of the morning. Go tell a bus drive to their face they don’t deserve a pay rise for putting up with the public and being expected to babysit.

Send me one. I’ll tell him/her/it that and a bit more.

What exactly do they babysit?

Bet you’re all public servants sitting there on your 18th “internet browsing” break of the morning. Go tell a bus drive to their face they don’t deserve a pay rise for putting up with the public and being expected to babysit.

+1

If this was happening to public servants, the Riot-Act would be up in arms. It’s a basic human right to be allowed to go to the toilet (!!!).

hellspice said :

OMG i had no idea they did that, so unfair. I think we need some cheese to go with this whine !

Thanks, but I think you just brought plenty enough cheese with that comment.

Ahem. As you were folks…

putting up with the public and being expected to babysit.

OMG i had no idea they did that, so unfair. I think we need some cheese to go with this whine !

(still working through my first internet break for the morning)

Bet you’re all public servants sitting there on your 18th “internet browsing” break of the morning. Go tell a bus drive to their face they don’t deserve a pay rise for putting up with the public and being expected to babysit.

Action Bus drivers are public servants. Not saying they don’t have a pretty crap job at times, and not saying I would do it for the same money, but well, ya’ll should probably come up with a different way to discriminate against office workers.

[currently on my 18th internet break of the afternoon].

Not to mention, if I went on strike and my company lost money, I wouldnt expect to be employed after half a shift, better known a full week.

One possible solution to this issue that the ACT government can look at is with the introduction of biofuel buses, we could hook up a pipe directly to the driver so he can add to the fuel supply as he/she is driving. Problem solved aside from drivers not wanting to share buses and becoming “one” with their bus.

Bet you’re all public servants sitting there on your 18th “internet browsing” break of the morning.

Actually, Im in the transport industry too, but unlike ACTION drivers, I dont complain that Ive had one single payrise in the last 5 years of just over $2/hr (barely covers the increased cost of fuel). Just like ACTION bus drivers, I dont receive penalty rates, however unlike ACTION bus drivers who sit in their comfy seat for the entire shift, Im required to load/unload my vehicle.

And as for why Im on here at this hour? I work night shifts (something that doesnt happen in ACTION, where it seems all the buses are off the road an hour before-sunrise/after-sunset), so kindly place your ’18th internet browsing break’ comment where the sun dont shine.

basic oh&s issues should not be used in employment condition negotiations.

many of the issues with actions services are not the fault of the drivers, however agreeing to composite pay and then being reluctant to do shifts outside daytime hours or on weekends is simply wrong. its something that needs to be rectified in the new agreement. it is the single reason that services outside regular daytime hours are so poor (due to running late or the service just being cancelled due to no bus/driver available).

im not sure why people are begrudging about bus drivers being paid well. it is a responsible job, requiring hours of concentration. in any case, bus drivers are scarce. why pay them less and have even fewer ?

screaming banshee said :

PPS. please forward to anyone worth a squirt of piss.
Boo hoo, how many people out there haven’t had a payrise at all, I haven’t had anything in the last 3 years.

“I didn’t get one so why should you?”

Good one.

Bet you’re all public servants sitting there on your 18th “internet browsing” break of the morning. Go tell a bus drive to their face they don’t deserve a pay rise for putting up with the public and being expected to babysit.

I’m not a pube. Why the hell would I go near a bus?

Clown Killer said :

You can suck the bosses scaly iguana on the sidelines by doing nothing, you can act the spineless scumbag scab…

You lost me there buddy. Suck it up or find another job. If you’re so concerned about safety and appropriate rest breaks then take responsibility for that – don’t go on whinging about the ‘bosses’.

Big +1 there

screaming banshee said :

PPS. please forward to anyone worth a squirt of piss.

Well if it isn’t gods gift….

Boo hoo, how many people out there haven’t had a payrise at all, I haven’t had anything in the last 3 years.

As for supporting my local drivers, would that be the drivers that cut me off when changing lanes (yes changing lanes, not pulling out from a stop) speeding and indicating for half a second before pulling out from a stop.

As for your turnaround times, what is average, for every 2 runs at 30 minutes each there is no break and 1 run at 110 minutes with a 10 minute break, there’s an average of 5 minutes break per 90 minutes.

Didn’t we get a report that you lot are already overpaid compared with bus drivers in other regions of Aus. I’ve changed my mind, bring on the trams I say, we can automate them and then we wouldn’t have to put up with whinging bus drivers with Kellogs licences.

Perhaps you can all move out to our drought stricken areas and cry a river for our farmers.

i wanted to say something but screaming banshee beat me to it !! +100

Boo hoo – have a cry over your sub-CPI pay rise. If you don’t like that go work for another bus company. Oh wait, then you’ll be getting a pay cut because ACTION is already paying you significantly above the market. Bring out the violins!

I thought you weren’t allowed to be paid while taking industrial action – which refusing to collect fares certainly is. Or did that get wound back by the Fed Govt? Or does the government of the socialist workers republic of the ACT somehow contort logic to determine its not industrial action? Personally if they don’t do their jobs 100%, which includes collecting fares, I’d be shutting down the buses and locking out the drivers until they decide to do their jobs.

In reality, what will happen is Stanhope will talk tough for a while, there’ll be a load of sabre rattling and brinksmanship, then he’ll cave, the TWU will get their payrise in return for some bullshit tradoffs, nothing will change with ACTION and Stanhope will claim the agreement as the most significant reforms in the history of ACT public transport.

screaming banshee said :

Didn’t we get a report that you lot are already overpaid compared with bus drivers in other regions of Aus.

Several years ago I worked with a guy whos dad was a firefighter. I often remember hearing him talking about how ACTION bus drivers got paid more than firefighters did, as apparently driving a bus full of public servants or kids, is a more demanding job than attending fire and rescue scenes to save lives.

Seriously, how much money will be lost by bus drivers not collecting fares? My recollection during a similar strike many years ago, was that most bus passengers use weekly/monthly tickets, so ACTION has already made the money off the passengers, even if drivers dont collect cash fares, they might lose out on $20,000 for the whole week. In the scheme of things, thats barely a drop in the ocean in the whole costs of running the busline.

PPS. please forward to anyone worth a squirt of piss.

Well if it isn’t gods gift….

Boo hoo, how many people out there haven’t had a payrise at all, I haven’t had anything in the last 3 years.

As for supporting my local drivers, would that be the drivers that cut me off when changing lanes (yes changing lanes, not pulling out from a stop) speeding and indicating for half a second before pulling out from a stop.

As for your turnaround times, what is average, for every 2 runs at 30 minutes each there is no break and 1 run at 110 minutes with a 10 minute break, there’s an average of 5 minutes break per 90 minutes.

Didn’t we get a report that you lot are already overpaid compared with bus drivers in other regions of Aus. I’ve changed my mind, bring on the trams I say, we can automate them and then we wouldn’t have to put up with whinging bus drivers with Kellogs licences.

Perhaps you can all move out to our drought stricken areas and cry a river for our farmers.

I’m wondering how the conversation got to this point. In my head ACTION is this Skynet style computer that expects humans to be like robots.

Action: “We want you all to do 90 minutes then take a 5 minute break then turn around and go back”

Drivers: “Um yeah it takes longer than 5 minutes just to clean up the bus a little and pick up the next lot of passengers. Can you also give us an actual break break?”

Action: “No”

Drivers: “You realise we’re humans right? We need to take toilet breaks, that’s another 5 minutes to lock the bus, walk from the bus to the toilet, go to the toilet then walk back to the bus. At least once a day we even eat meals too!”

Action: “I’m sure you don’t really need to do that.”

…

Drivers: “This driver soiled himself because he didn’t get a toilet break all day.”

Action: “He really didn’t need one.”

caf said :

A pay rise lower than inflation is a pay cut? Interesting approach…

Yes it is, in “real terms”. Don’t ever let your employer try and tell you otherwise.

In real terms, everyones’ salary trends downward constantly unless an increase is granted. Ultimately, though, an employer will generally seek to pay the minimum needed to keep employees working and motivated (ie market rate based on skills and output). I think that inflation is a problem for employees, not business owners. People need to manage their own career to combat this problem.

I thought Canberra had alack of trained bus drivers – isn’t this the reason trotted out for why we can’t have increased buses on some routes. and yet now it turns out some are only working a few hours a week = give them a few more hours and give us a few more buses.

A pay rise lower than inflation is a pay cut? Interesting approach…

Yes it is, in “real terms”. Don’t ever let your employer try and tell you otherwise.

p1 said :

Rather then this approach, have you considered simply stopping for a ten minute break every two hours? That would get the attention of the people on the bus in question…

That would just annoy the commuters and probably not get the drivers anywhere closer to getting basic rights at work.

All they are asking for is a 10 minute break at least once every 90-120 minutes. I know of public servants who in a 2 hour window will take at least 2 smoko’s and a coffee break.

I think the bus drivers clearly deserve some better working conditions, dont you ?

You can suck the bosses scaly iguana on the sidelines by doing nothing, you can act the spineless scumbag scab…

You lost me there buddy. Suck it up or find another job. If you’re so concerned about safety and appropriate rest breaks then take responsibility for that – don’t go on whinging about the ‘bosses’.

p1 said :

Rather then this approach, have you considered simply stopping for a ten minute break every two hours? That would get the attention of the people on the bus in question…

That’d probably end up disadvantaging the customers, I think the drivers want to get the message across to management, who will notice when they don’t get fares.

Rather then this approach, have you considered simply stopping for a ten minute break every two hours? That would get the attention of the people on the bus in question…

A pay rise lower than inflation is a pay cut? Interesting approach…