ACT Greens make big Wi-Fi election promises

Gungahlin Al said :

And you can be sure that as a regular public transport user myself, if I was elected, public transport would be a dominating topic for me.

Well, at least Al can be honest about being a narrow minded, selfish Green.

HenryBG said :

We can’t possibly do anything cool because it will all go wrong and it could never work here anyway.

Nice positive attitude dude.

I agree with the statement “Wasteful, ignorant, people. Luckily though the Greens have just about every other party in Australian politics trying to turf them out, so shouldn’t be long before they go the way of the Democrats” . . .
what they say is almost always ‘aspirational’ (as opposed to actually do-able) because they don’t have the numbers.

It is unfortunate that they abused the mandate to be a third voice in the ACT Assembly – they have shown their true colours and won’t again be getting anything like the power they have had over the past four years.

Al, I would get out now and stand as an independent. I reckon you’d have the numbers.

Gungahlin Al said :

Feng said :

Well said. For a political candidate, Gungahlin Al sounds certainly like an angry individual. I’m scared if I vote for him, he have a go at me as well for expressing an opinion. I think that it’s ok to be angry like that if you were just a normal citizen but as a political candidate, I believe we expect a higher standard of views.
I think you just damaged your rep there and may have cost you votes.
But I like what Thumper said before, how about fixing up the public transport network and make it cheaper and more efficient? Or is that too hard to tackle? I think the community will be behind you even if you have to make tough decisions.

Sorry if you think that Feng. I’m not angry at all. But occasionally someone will try to make out that I’m concealing my role as a current election candidate for the Greens. The reality that they are trying to slide past is that I’ve been contributing to RA for years, and have always been known by my actual name – unlike the people who choose to make such accusations from behind anonymous accounts.

And C__C’s accusation was especially silly given I had even mentioned my part of the Greens team in the very post that he chose to criticise.

On your suggestion about fixing public transport, I agree that there does need to be serious work done, and I and the Greens have been active campaigners for improvements to the bus service in the short term and implementation of light rail in the longer term.

Personally, I’ve been able to convince Roads staff to install new shelters and seats at various Gungahlin stops, make improvements to a number of routes, get new 200 stops, and for changes to the Territory Plan to require bus stop infrastructure to be installed when new suburbs are built, rather than after they are finished and everyone’s been “trained” to use their cars instead.

The Greens were successful in this last term at getting the express 200 service continued, and expanded to Belco and southern town centres, improved after hours services, and more.

And you can be sure that as a regular public transport user myself, if I was elected, public transport would be a dominating topic for me.

Finally, for those who’ve been saying real-time information systems should come first, this is already happening. The following is from ACTION’s website:

“The request for tender for the supply, installation and on-going maintenance of the system was released in December 2011. Installation of the system is expected to commence by mid-2012 with the system becoming fully operational by 2013.”
https://www.transport.act.gov.au/studies_projects/RTPIS.html

You bring it up again but didn’t answer my question before, al. Maybe you missed it. Il ask again though, what are your thoughts on your new bus shelters being imported from and installed by a new zealand company instead of a local one?

Feng said :

Well said. For a political candidate, Gungahlin Al sounds certainly like an angry individual. I’m scared if I vote for him, he have a go at me as well for expressing an opinion. I think that it’s ok to be angry like that if you were just a normal citizen but as a political candidate, I believe we expect a higher standard of views.
I think you just damaged your rep there and may have cost you votes.
But I like what Thumper said before, how about fixing up the public transport network and make it cheaper and more efficient? Or is that too hard to tackle? I think the community will be behind you even if you have to make tough decisions.

Sorry if you think that Feng. I’m not angry at all. But occasionally someone will try to make out that I’m concealing my role as a current election candidate for the Greens. The reality that they are trying to slide past is that I’ve been contributing to RA for years, and have always been known by my actual name – unlike the people who choose to make such accusations from behind anonymous accounts.

And C__C’s accusation was especially silly given I had even mentioned my part of the Greens team in the very post that he chose to criticise.

On your suggestion about fixing public transport, I agree that there does need to be serious work done, and I and the Greens have been active campaigners for improvements to the bus service in the short term and implementation of light rail in the longer term.

Personally, I’ve been able to convince Roads staff to install new shelters and seats at various Gungahlin stops, make improvements to a number of routes, get new 200 stops, and for changes to the Territory Plan to require bus stop infrastructure to be installed when new suburbs are built, rather than after they are finished and everyone’s been “trained” to use their cars instead.

The Greens were successful in this last term at getting the express 200 service continued, and expanded to Belco and southern town centres, improved after hours services, and more.

And you can be sure that as a regular public transport user myself, if I was elected, public transport would be a dominating topic for me.

Finally, for those who’ve been saying real-time information systems should come first, this is already happening. The following is from ACTION’s website:

“The request for tender for the supply, installation and on-going maintenance of the system was released in December 2011. Installation of the system is expected to commence by mid-2012 with the system becoming fully operational by 2013.”
https://www.transport.act.gov.au/studies_projects/RTPIS.html

Hemingway_never_did_this said :

As a commuter (and somebody with a 3G data plan), I’m really excited about this proposal.

I lived in Sydney when the Labor government trialled free Wi-Fi on public transport, and worked for PWC who conducted a review of the trial. The evidence was clear – complimentary Wi-Fi led to increased willingness to use public transport, because it enhances commuter experience and transforms the perception of commuting as wasted time. The study concluded that free Wi-Fi was actually a wise public investment.

The free Wi-Fi trial launched in Brisbane by Liberal Lord Mayor Graham Quirk is another good example.

If anybody is interested, I can point you to other examples (including cost-benefit studies conducted in Australia, the UK and Europe). That way, we might be able to use facts to support our arguments, rather than having to resort to non-sensical and alarmist claims about increased crime and child pornography.

Of course people would like ‘free’ WiFi, but we all pay the cost via rates/taxes/charges. Does it deliver the service for a lower cost than everyone buying the same service individually?
How does the cost benefit stack up when people are simply not using the data access that they have already paid for?

You note that you already have a 3G data connection available.
Smartphone ownership, with the capacity to WiFi tether, has exploded in Australia in the last 18 months and data costs signifcantly reduced.
A free WiFi proposal may have had signifcant benefit before this, but now? Almost everyone who wants to access the internet on the go already has a data plan, like yourself.

I found the TTF “Improving Your Commute July 2011” report by PWC that I assume you were referring to. Free WiFi was reported as appealing by only around 60% of those surveyed amongst all cities, which seems low to me for a free system
The primary users in the Sydney trial were 20-29 year olds with smartphones (who would already have internet access) and 10,000 users mad 26,000 sessions over the two month trial period. An average use of 2.6 sessions per user over two months doesn’t sound like a popular service for daily travellers.
Further 77% of users would not be prepared to pay anything for the service, and would expect it to be paid for by advertising. If it was truely a valuable service I would expect many more people to be willing to pay a slightly higher fare or a per use fee.
The report rightly focuses much more on the actual barriers to use – access, reliability and frequency, overcrowding and affordability. All issues that ACTION significantly falls short on.

I commend the Greens for only committing a relatively small amount on the trial.
Labor’s $3m plan for the same thing just seems like reckless spending in comparison.
I note Alistair Coe congratulated Deans last year for implementing WiFi on their buses – https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzCxhBE0EgTSNmFjYzJhNDktNjFhZi00NjE0LWExNTQtMzA4NThlNWFhNzEz/edit
Will the Liberals come out with their own free WiFi plan?

Is Pirate Party ACT the only party questioning the value of the free WiFi plans?
How about we focus on getting public transport more usable instead of distractions like WiFi?

– Glen Takkenberg, Pirate Party ACT.

Hemingway_never_did_this said :

If anybody is interested, I can point you to other examples (including cost-benefit studies conducted in Australia, the UK and Europe). That way, we might be able to use facts to support our arguments, rather than having to resort to non-sensical and alarmist claims about increased crime and child pornography.

If you can point us at any similar project relevant to Canberra’s population density, I’d be very interested.

And we can point you to the ACT Government’s track record of failed projects, wasted money, corruption, and their existing “free wireless” which is a disaster, and an expensive one to boot, not that anybody actually knows exactly how much the ACT government is currently paying for their metered internet access.

I had better Internet connectivity on a boat on the Mekong Delta in Viet Nam than I get in most of Australia – and it was free. I don’t think we realise just how far behind the rest of the world we are.

c_c said :

Gungahlin Al said :

Again no secret there. Need some help Sherlock? President Sunshine Coast Branch, Queensland Management Committee, National Executive. Google away. My public life is out there. You missed this bit too – elected independent Councillor, Maroochy Shire, 1997.

Oh and for the record – I don’t “toe the party line.” I joined a party that has policies that almost perfectly align with my personal beliefs. Beliefs about which I have been talking here on RiotACT for quite a few years – 5 now? Long before I had anything to do with the Greens. Therefore I’m happy to publicly support that which I already believe.

So you have always been, and continue to be on the fringe of society. Dealing with fringe ideas, fringe policies and fringe parties.

When the Dickson plans were announced, the Greens said nothing about parking, an issue actual people in Dickson were talking about. Instead, they said the money from the land sale should go into funding public transport – no doubt a reference to funding this WiFi!!!

Majura Parkway, you bashed Simon Corbell for doing the right thing and getting it built. That is a damn dangerous road and you Greenies won’t be happy until a truck flattens a family driving back from Sydney will you?

But back to the WiFi

Will you use suppliers who manufacture the hardware ethically according to audits?

Will you ensure the products are RoHS (or equiv.) compliant?

Of course not because the Greens haven’t been an environmental party for years.

Will you ensure the WiFi is filtered to prevent access to illegal materials or materials that school kids who have devices and use the bus could get access to that is inappropriate?

Will you ensure WiFi in interchanges has session time limits and download limits for each user to prevent people who have nothing to do with the buses from camping out and downloading torrents on the taxpayer’s dime?

Of course not, you don’t want to control the users of this service, no matter what kind of illegal stuff they might get up to.

But if I dare use my car, well I’m a terrible person who must be taxed and deemed a disgrace. Or as your NSW colleagues were saying, we car dependant people must be “stopped.”

And if a Minister dares build a road, well he’s a terrible person who’s destroying your precious, fringe vision of society.

Well said. For a political candidate, Gungahlin Al sounds certainly like an angry individual. I’m scared if I vote for him, he have a go at me as well for expressing an opinion. I think that it’s ok to be angry like that if you were just a normal citizen but as a political candidate, I believe we expect a higher standard of views.

I think you just damaged your rep there and may have cost you votes.

But I like what Thumper said before, how about fixing up the public transport network and make it cheaper and more efficient? Or is that too hard to tackle? I think the community will be behind you even if you have to make tough decisions.

pirate_taco said :

All this to solve a problem that doesn’t need to be solved?
With a goal of increasing bus patronage that the trial cannot possibly achieve as the buses are already at capacity during peak on the inter-town routes, and the small number of buses involved means nobody will be sure of getting free WiFi anyway.
.

Why couldn’t it be guaranteed on particular routes at particular times? Eg certain peak time suburban routes, like the expresso ones. Same route every day for however many months, then try on a different route. For a while I took the same expresso bus everyday, wasn’t overcrowded, and it would have been great to have Internet on it.

devils_advocate said :

Gungahlin Al said :

Inability to grasp the big picture raises its head in the form of C__C. Perhaps you think bus shelters are a ridiculous waste too? It’s a minimal cost with the spin-off benefit of encouraging more people onto public transport. The more who do, the less parlous our ACT budget from massive road construction expenses.

Pro tip: More regular and reliable services and cheaper fares will get more people onto the bus than free wi-fi.

Actually I think the pros argue about things like this. It’s probably a combination of comfort/convenience factors and regularity/reliability that gets more people on buses.

As a commuter (and somebody with a 3G data plan), I’m really excited about this proposal.

I lived in Sydney when the Labor government trialled free Wi-Fi on public transport, and worked for PWC who conducted a review of the trial. The evidence was clear – complimentary Wi-Fi led to increased willingness to use public transport, because it enhances commuter experience and transforms the perception of commuting as wasted time. The study concluded that free Wi-Fi was actually a wise public investment.

The free Wi-Fi trial launched in Brisbane by Liberal Lord Mayor Graham Quirk is another good example.

If anybody is interested, I can point you to other examples (including cost-benefit studies conducted in Australia, the UK and Europe). That way, we might be able to use facts to support our arguments, rather than having to resort to non-sensical and alarmist claims about increased crime and child pornography.

c_c said :

I note the policy does already say content filtering will be enabled and time or download limits apply.
However I also note cases where ACT and interstate government office computer users have accessed inappropriate material. So the question remains valid. And from the sound of the policy, it doesn’t sound like they’ll use any new filtering system.

Every blacklist style filtering system will allow inappropriate material. The speed at which new sites are created outstrips the ability of filter maintainers to keep up.
You can do keyword filtering, but then you start increasing the amount of false positives and silly things like Wikipedia pages on anatomy end up getting banned.

devils_advocate said :

Your model ascribes zero value to your time, and zero value to the convenience factor of being able to arrive and leave work as you please. Also 30km is quite a way out – my trip is about half that. Which is exactly why, if the bus was cheaper, it would make sense for me to catch it, because compared with other canberrans, I have more regular and direct services. Also it would be good on thursdays and fridays as I could go straight to the pub without worrying about retrieving my car the next day.

As it is, though, I have no incentives because the bus fare is about the same as the marginal cost (note- marginal) of driving the car.

I specifically left time & all the other factors out of it because I really didnt want to get in the whole argument about how Action works which generally turns into a crapfight. I just wanted to keep it specific.

I used to micro manage my time & could not do without my car but I decided to try & work it when I started working in the city.

Depending on the bus, it takes me betwee 35 minutes to an hour to get into work on the bus. I have then tried to maximise that time by exercising (riding my bike) as I have 3 kids & cant be bothered getting out there after they go to bed so I kill two birds with one stone by commuting as well as bussing.

I am happy to sacrifice the time to save the money but the thing is I have found other things to do with that time on the bus. One thing I have found is, commuting by car can add stress to the day (god it used to on my motorbike with having dodge cars), you dont have this with the bus, you know when & where it is going to be.

Anyway, I enjoy it & use it to my advantage.

I note the policy does already say content filtering will be enabled and time or download limits apply.
However I also note cases where ACT and interstate government office computer users have accessed inappropriate material. So the question remains valid. And from the sound of the policy, it doesn’t sound like they’ll use any new filtering system.

KB1971 said :

devils_advocate said :

patrick_keogh said :

Solidarity said :

If you’re catching a bus you probably can’t afford a laptop anyway.

Sweeping generalisation. Given the cost of parking in Civic you could probably rewrite this as “If you start catching the bus you’ll be able to afford a laptop”. Your reduced commuting cost will pay for a new laptop, ultrabook or top of the line smartphone every year.

The marginal cost of driving even quite a fuel-inefficient car is far less than catching the bus, and many are better off parking in the triangle and walking/riding into Civic, which is what creates much of the pressure on parking in the triangle.

Hell, if you have an efficient car, probably the average cost is less than a bus. It’s a joke.

Instead of having free bloody wi-fi, how about making the bus cheaper.

Ok, now this IS a comparison (just to make it clear for you & Tetranitrate).

The value of the bus certainly does depend on the distance you travel. I am not sure why you want to make the bus cheaper because with a little organiseation each trip costs a little over $2.50 so $5.00 a day.

If I lived innner north or inner south that is not terribly good value for money & could be comparable to the running costs of a small car (even better if you had a diesel) but any further out then the bus would start to present reasonable value.

For me, its a 30km trip to work each way, my car uses 11lt/100km around town as an average. Depending on how I drive on any given day the vehicle would use between 6 to 9l per day (estimation only, not an exact calulation) which at $1.34 add up to a minimim cost of $8.04 just for fuel for the day, an immediate saving for me.

So, If I catch the bus every day for the week I am out $25, if I were to drive the car & include parking in the equasion, the cost would be roughly $90 per week (not including any other running cost associated with running a motor vehicle). A significant saving for me & I am happy to let someone else deal with the traffic.

Now, I could go & buy another smaller car to run but then I have to outlay the purchase cost just to save 2-3l per trip, not really a sound method for saving money in my opinion when I can just not drive my larger car & catch the bus.

On topic, not sure I need WIFI on the bus, its quite nice to leave the world behind & read a book on the way home on the bus.

Your model ascribes zero value to your time, and zero value to the convenience factor of being able to arrive and leave work as you please. Also 30km is quite a way out – my trip is about half that. Which is exactly why, if the bus was cheaper, it would make sense for me to catch it, because compared with other canberrans, I have more regular and direct services. Also it would be good on thursdays and fridays as I could go straight to the pub without worrying about retrieving my car the next day.

As it is, though, I have no incentives because the bus fare is about the same as the marginal cost (note- marginal) of driving the car.

Gungahlin Al said :

Inability to grasp the big picture raises its head in the form of C__C. Perhaps you think bus shelters are a ridiculous waste too? It’s a minimal cost with the spin-off benefit of encouraging more people onto public transport. The more who do, the less parlous our ACT budget from massive road construction expenses.

Pro tip: More regular and reliable services and cheaper fares will get more people onto the bus than free wi-fi.

c_c: If you had read the link I posted earlier to the Greens website, almost all of your points have already been addressed.
Yes they plan to filter the connection and implement session limits.

Filtering the way they plan requires double the bandwidth – WiFi > 3G transfer to the ACT Government proxy server, and then wired connection to the wider internet
Implementing session limits adds a management layer that costs extra money.

All this to solve a problem that doesn’t need to be solved?
With a goal of increasing bus patronage that the trial cannot possibly achieve as the buses are already at capacity during peak on the inter-town routes, and the small number of buses involved means nobody will be sure of getting free WiFi anyway.

Someone also mentioned that Labor was planning on spending the same amount of money on lights at an oval that nobody will be using.
If that was included in the $26 million sports infrastructure spend that Corbell recently announced (pretending it was an announcement of a government commitment rather than an election promise), I have criticised that for having inflated costs too. I can’t believe it costs millions to redo turf and install sprinklers.

Pirate Party ACT, if any of our candidates are elected, will be committed to making sure the government is accountable for what it is doing and that the public has as much access to relevant information as possible so that they can make informed judgements.

c_c said :

So you have always been, and continue to be on the fringe of society. Dealing with fringe ideas, fringe policies and fringe parties.

Wow you must have a very narrow world-view. Just exactly how far away from your views does the “fringe” start? In the ACT about 1 in 6 voted for the Greens (1 in 3 for both Labor and the Liberals) so your fringe starts a long way in from the edge. I’m guessing the Motorist Party is beyond the edge of the observable universe.

c_c said :

Gungahlin Al said :

Again no secret there. Need some help Sherlock? President Sunshine Coast Branch, Queensland Management Committee, National Executive. Google away. My public life is out there. You missed this bit too – elected independent Councillor, Maroochy Shire, 1997.

Oh and for the record – I don’t “toe the party line.” I joined a party that has policies that almost perfectly align with my personal beliefs. Beliefs about which I have been talking here on RiotACT for quite a few years – 5 now? Long before I had anything to do with the Greens. Therefore I’m happy to publicly support that which I already believe.

So you have always been, and continue to be on the fringe of society. Dealing with fringe ideas, fringe policies and fringe parties.

When the Dickson plans were announced, the Greens said nothing about parking, an issue actual people in Dickson were talking about. Instead, they said the money from the land sale should go into funding public transport – no doubt a reference to funding this WiFi!!!

Majura Parkway, you bashed Simon Corbell for doing the right thing and getting it built. That is a damn dangerous road and you Greenies won’t be happy until a truck flattens a family driving back from Sydney will you?

But back to the WiFi

Will you use suppliers who manufacture the hardware ethically according to audits?

Will you ensure the products are RoHS (or equiv.) compliant?

Of course not because the Greens haven’t been an environmental party for years.

Will you ensure the WiFi is filtered to prevent access to illegal materials or materials that school kids who have devices and use the bus could get access to that is inappropriate?

Will you ensure WiFi in interchanges has session time limits and download limits for each user to prevent people who have nothing to do with the buses from camping out and downloading torrents on the taxpayer’s dime?

Of course not, you don’t want to control the users of this service, no matter what kind of illegal stuff they might get up to.

But if I dare use my car, well I’m a terrible person who must be taxed and deemed a disgrace. Or as your NSW colleagues were saying, we car dependant people must be “stopped.”

And if a Minister dares build a road, well he’s a terrible person who’s destroying your precious, fringe vision of society.

Wow – you really kicked the sh1t out of that straw man.

c_c said :

Will you use suppliers who manufacture the hardware ethically according to audits?

Will you ensure the products are RoHS (or equiv.) compliant?

Of course not because the Greens haven’t been an environmental party for years.

Exactly.

Having absorbed all the refugees from the various disbanded commie parties, the Greens no longer give a hoot about the environment – now it’s all fringe nonsense dreamed up by ex-commies aimed at undermining the society they hate.

thatsnotme said :

I fully expect that there will be filtering software running, and that there will be usage limits in place to prevent misuse. It’s not like we’d have to spend millions extra writing these programs – they’re commercially available now.

This isn’t cutting edge stuff – it’s happening all over the world.

And yet….the free wireless in libraries has no usage limits in place, which has brought the entire ACT Government’s internet access to a grinding halt. Not to mention the massive data download costs which have skyrocketed – more money coming straight out of our pockets.

It would be interesting if somebody made a FoI request to find out how much the ACT Government is spending of our money on metered internet access…

If they made the buses free to ride and absorbed the cost into rates/taxes (so in theory taxpayers would all be paying to use the service anyhow), then more people would probably use them, making them more efficient and removing many cars from the road. If they did that, then the proposition of free wifi makes the buses a little more attractive a proposition also… This would also save on the cost of the infrastructure to process and collect fares. Taxpayers already pay most of the cost of the bus service anyhow.

Gungahlin Al said :

Again no secret there. Need some help Sherlock? President Sunshine Coast Branch, Queensland Management Committee, National Executive. Google away. My public life is out there. You missed this bit too – elected independent Councillor, Maroochy Shire, 1997.

Oh and for the record – I don’t “toe the party line.” I joined a party that has policies that almost perfectly align with my personal beliefs. Beliefs about which I have been talking here on RiotACT for quite a few years – 5 now? Long before I had anything to do with the Greens. Therefore I’m happy to publicly support that which I already believe.

So you have always been, and continue to be on the fringe of society. Dealing with fringe ideas, fringe policies and fringe parties.

When the Dickson plans were announced, the Greens said nothing about parking, an issue actual people in Dickson were talking about. Instead, they said the money from the land sale should go into funding public transport – no doubt a reference to funding this WiFi!!!

Majura Parkway, you bashed Simon Corbell for doing the right thing and getting it built. That is a damn dangerous road and you Greenies won’t be happy until a truck flattens a family driving back from Sydney will you?

But back to the WiFi

Will you use suppliers who manufacture the hardware ethically according to audits?

Will you ensure the products are RoHS (or equiv.) compliant?

Of course not because the Greens haven’t been an environmental party for years.

Will you ensure the WiFi is filtered to prevent access to illegal materials or materials that school kids who have devices and use the bus could get access to that is inappropriate?

Will you ensure WiFi in interchanges has session time limits and download limits for each user to prevent people who have nothing to do with the buses from camping out and downloading torrents on the taxpayer’s dime?

Of course not, you don’t want to control the users of this service, no matter what kind of illegal stuff they might get up to.

But if I dare use my car, well I’m a terrible person who must be taxed and deemed a disgrace. Or as your NSW colleagues were saying, we car dependant people must be “stopped.”

And if a Minister dares build a road, well he’s a terrible person who’s destroying your precious, fringe vision of society.

http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2012/06/14/3524848.htm

This is an article that speaks to many different areas of internet consumption, but the key areas of interest here are;

The future is indeed wireless, but it’s mostly WiFi and not 4G.

Wireless technologies need to be primarily methods of connecting to nearby fibre networks.

That as much wireless traffic as possible needs to be seamlessly offloaded onto the wired networks to avoid congestion.

Given the mobile data usage trends, and where they’re estimated to head to in the next few years, I think it’s very wise to start to look into ways to move mobile data users onto some form of Wi-Fi network – whether that’s in an interchange, or on the bus.

As for misuse of a free system, it’s ridiculous to think that any government provided, free internet access is going to be just open slather. Talk of people using these connections to download kiddie porn is just fear mongering nonsense. I fully expect that there will be filtering software running, and that there will be usage limits in place to prevent misuse. It’s not like we’d have to spend millions extra writing these programs – they’re commercially available now.

This isn’t cutting edge stuff – it’s happening all over the world.

So, pending completion of the million-dollar plus project for real-time updates on bus times, you could use the free WiFi to work out if you’re bus will be arriving in the next three hours…? The wonders of technology! Sign me up for MyWay now!

And isn’t making the interchange a WiFi hotspot a bit like encouraging a crime hotspot? All these distracted users sitting around waiting for buses with their $500+ mobile devices loosely held in their hands. Easy pickings.

c_c said :

Disclosure: Gunghalin Al is a Greens candidate so of course he’ll toe the party line.

Gee thanks C__C. How much disclosure do you want – every time I post anything? Click my name and it’s there in my profile – my real name, unlike most people here. And which part of “So I think it’s great to be part of the Greens that has this out there now as a policy.” was it that you think wasn’t clear enough?

c_c said :

the Democrats – who Gunghalin Al has also run for.

Again no secret there. Need some help Sherlock? President Sunshine Coast Branch, Queensland Management Committee, National Executive. Google away. My public life is out there. You missed this bit too – elected independent Councillor, Maroochy Shire, 1997.

Oh and for the record – I don’t “toe the party line.” I joined a party that has policies that almost perfectly align with my personal beliefs. Beliefs about which I have been talking here on RiotACT for quite a few years – 5 now? Long before I had anything to do with the Greens. Therefore I’m happy to publicly support that which I already believe.

Gungahlin Al said :

Solidarity said :

If you’re catching a bus you probably can’t afford a laptop anyway.

When I don’t ride in, I use the bus, and I am using my phone the entire way. And I ain’t a young’un.

In fact most people on the bus are using their phones or slates. And most experience the 3G signal drop out along Northbourne every day too.

c_c said :

This is why the Greens must never be allowed to govern, or to again have deciding cross votes.

That is a ridiculous expense, particularly when the budget is in the red already. And you can bet it will quickly get abused by nefarious sorts. Free internet is not an essential public service.

Inability to grasp the big picture raises its head in the form of C__C. Perhaps you think bus shelters are a ridiculous waste too? It’s a minimal cost with the spin-off benefit of encouraging more people onto public transport. The more who do, the less parlous our ACT budget from massive road construction expenses.

People need to get their heads around the reality that both health and road costs are running away and threaten to break the bank if we don’t get proactive in our policies. With a property slow down, we’ll be less and less able to rely on land sales to dig us out of the budget hole.

Wifi is an example of investing in order to reduce ongoing costs. In GCC we were pushing for this for quite some time, but the government did nothing. And the Libs couldn’t see reality if it loomed up out of the car exhaust fumes and smothered them. So I think it’s great to be part of the Greens that has this out there now as a policy.

I use my phone for internet everyday down in my travels around Northern Canberra on the bus (I regularly travel between Kippax, Belco, Gungahlin, Watson and Civic). The closest thing I have ever had to an internet dropout on Northbourne was when my phone battery went dead going past the netball/hockey centre last week. I always get a dropout going behind Black Mountain but it is always back up by the time I get to Gungahlin Drive/Belconnen Way intersection.

What wifi did GCC actually try to get? I don’t see what the government thinks it can achieve by free wifi. It is a good business investment for cafes/restaurants but if every cafe in Gungahlin had it, it loses its value.

This policy will achieve nothing. There is very little the government can do to get people on public transport as the majority of people in Canberra are close minded morons when it comes to ACTION. 5 days a week, a pretty decent service is provided.

You are right in that land sales can’t prop up the ACT government forever. Which is why stupid policies like this should be avoided – saves costs. As bad as Labor is at spending too much money (both locally and federally), the Greens are worse.

I’ve always had respect for you Alan (and I think all of Gungahlin does as well) but if you wanted to go into politics, you’d have done much better as an independent.

patrick_keogh said :

You might say “it can’t work” but that view I am afraid does not take account of the fact that it is working, in multiple cities, on most continents. Today.

….and they are the cities where they know how to build a road.

AG Canberra said :

As a comparison, the current gtovernment is about to spend $100 000 on installing lights for a refurbished oval in Isabella Plains. But no-one can work out who is actually going to use them.

How is this any different to what the Greens are proposing to pend ‘their’ 100k on?

On the info you’ve provided I wouldn’t claim that it is. It does show, though, that the Greens are at least as bad as our current crop of councilors.

“Wi-Fi where you need it, when you need it”

I don’t NEED it anywhere.

And what’s Shane doing? Does he cycle to work using a bloody laptop, does he? What a mis-applied prop.

PantsMan said :

I would support the trial if only for there to be another thing for The Greens to !

Hmmmm….. supposed to say BAN!

As a comparison, the current gtovernment is about to spend $100 000 on installing lights for a refurbished oval in Isabella Plains. But no-one can work out who is actually going to use them.

How is this any different to what the Greens are proposing to pend ‘their’ 100k on?

patrick_keogh said :

If you have ever lived or worked in a city that has pervasive free wi-fi (yes, free to everyone, yes across the whole city) then you may not appreciate the value to be had in terms of increased productivity and reduced cost.
I think it quite likely that many Australian towns and cities will invest in this capability over the next 10-20 years. This is a “common good” where the cost of provision by the ACT government is a lot lower than each of us individually paying our $10 per month or more to use 3G, 4G etc. You know there was a time when people argued that the government shouldn’t get into the business of a city-wide water supply? Then later the same sort of people argued against a city-wide electricity network. And now the same kind of people argue against city-wide networks.

You might say “it can’t work” but that view I am afraid does not take account of the fact that it is working, in multiple cities, on most continents. Today. So a trial over the next three years I think is spot on. We should be ready to start deploying this technology on a large scale by 2015-2020.

This isn’t a proposal for city wide WiFi, though that could make sense if the per person cost was low enough, which would also cover people on buses (and everywhere else)

I dont know about wifi on buses, but in the interchanges, somewhere
Ike Graeme place etc would be welcome IMO. People who say its a waste of money fail to see the benefits of such an expense. You can’t poor money into a bottomless bucket such as roads and health forever. I’d even be willing to pay a few dollars a year extra for more wifi hotspots. I travel overseas a lot and just about everywhere except Australia and the third world have a decent amount of free wifi hotspots for use. They can easily be restricted to stop people downloading movies etc much like maccas does.

I’m using the free wifi in the Beijing airport now, which they also had in Urumqi and Bishkek yesterday. Won’t find it in out “first world” airports!

I would support the trial if only for there to be another thing for The Greens to !

HenryBG said :

What’s more, instead of being run by competent bureaucrats, we are subject to the misrule of a bunch of party-political ideologues who couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.

I think you need to learn to differentiate between bureaucrats and their political masters. As Sir Humphrey would say “Well, almost all government policy is wrong, but…frightfully well carried out.”

So what does 3G do again?

So when they put up my rates, bus fees, parking and everything else to pay for it …. it will be just wonderful.

mezza76 said :

pirate_taco said :

The real time passenger information system as I understand it requires every bus to get connected so that they can report in real time, with a connection to major bus stops/interchanges to display information. Allowing free use of the excess capacity of that system, as long as there is minimal extra cost involved makes sense to me.

Im a big fan of real time information for bus networks. They are just starting something similar in Brisbane
http://translink.com.au/about-translink/reporting-and-publications/media-releases/release/492

The cost isn’t cheap – my understanding is that capital costs for a large network like Brisbane can be in the hundred of millions of dollars. For a small network like Canberra it might be a bit more feasable – but the costs would be in the millions.

The benefit would be very good, however. Applications on smart phones would tell you exactly where and when the bus would arrive, interchanges would have live information, and planners can make the network heaps more efficient.

On another note – I would have preferred that they spent the $100k on upgrading security at bus interchanges. Woden and Civic frequently are hot beds of anti-social behaviour and with the absence of police and/or CCTV I can’t see this improving with free wifi.

Absolutely. I’ve never heard anyone say internet is a consideration in whether or not to use public transport.

What I have heard from plenty of users and potential users is safety, cleanliness and reliability of timetables are, and this money would be better spent on addressing those key concerns that are why a lot of potential users stay of busses, and why many current users hate them so much.

patrick_keogh said :

If you have ever lived or worked in a city that has pervasive free wi-fi (yes, free to everyone, yes across the whole city) then you may not appreciate the value to be had in terms of increased productivity and reduced cost.

These things happen in cities. Canberra has a sparse population that can’t fund what you propose.
What’s more, instead of being run by competent bureaucrats, we are subject to the misrule of a bunch of party-political ideologues who couldn’t organise a pissup in a brewery.

Solidarity said :

Factor in how much you earn an hour – then remember that from Gunghalin, a 20 minute car ride is an hour and a half bus ride.

I did not factor anythig else in other than basic costs on purpose for the comparison. There are so many other variables that could be included.

I personally would not have considered labour as I dont consider myself at work until I clock on but if you work from home & wish to use it as work time as part of your flexible hours then I guess that would work. Provided you were not worried about the security of the network you are using.

pirate_taco said :

The real time passenger information system as I understand it requires every bus to get connected so that they can report in real time, with a connection to major bus stops/interchanges to display information. Allowing free use of the excess capacity of that system, as long as there is minimal extra cost involved makes sense to me.

Im a big fan of real time information for bus networks. They are just starting something similar in Brisbane
http://translink.com.au/about-translink/reporting-and-publications/media-releases/release/492

The cost isn’t cheap – my understanding is that capital costs for a large network like Brisbane can be in the hundred of millions of dollars. For a small network like Canberra it might be a bit more feasable – but the costs would be in the millions.

The benefit would be very good, however. Applications on smart phones would tell you exactly where and when the bus would arrive, interchanges would have live information, and planners can make the network heaps more efficient.

On another note – I would have preferred that they spent the $100k on upgrading security at bus interchanges. Woden and Civic frequently are hot beds of anti-social behaviour and with the absence of police and/or CCTV I can’t see this improving with free wifi.

Gungahlin Al said :

It’s a minimal cost with the spin-off benefit of encouraging more people onto public transport.

Maybe when it’s not coming out of your pocket, but $100K would make a real hole in mine! I admit that $100K may be not be a lot in terms of the overall CanGovCo budget, but it soon adds up if you stack enough of them together.

And how do you know it will encourage more people onto public transport? Build it and they will come?

So if you think this would put us on the bleeding edge, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_wireless_network has a list of where it is working together with some “failures”. Every year that goes by makes the model more viable.

If you have ever lived or worked in a city that has pervasive free wi-fi (yes, free to everyone, yes across the whole city) then you may not appreciate the value to be had in terms of increased productivity and reduced cost.
I think it quite likely that many Australian towns and cities will invest in this capability over the next 10-20 years. This is a “common good” where the cost of provision by the ACT government is a lot lower than each of us individually paying our $10 per month or more to use 3G, 4G etc. You know there was a time when people argued that the government shouldn’t get into the business of a city-wide water supply? Then later the same sort of people argued against a city-wide electricity network. And now the same kind of people argue against city-wide networks.

You might say “it can’t work” but that view I am afraid does not take account of the fact that it is working, in multiple cities, on most continents. Today. So a trial over the next three years I think is spot on. We should be ready to start deploying this technology on a large scale by 2015-2020.

I’ve been saying they should do this for years… but they didn’t… and it does seem like a waste to do it now. I’m all for enticements to catch the bus but take a look around: everyone has a smart phone, especially on the bus, and long gone are the days when data was too precious and expensive to use.

KB1971 said :

devils_advocate said :

patrick_keogh said :

Solidarity said :

If you’re catching a bus you probably can’t afford a laptop anyway.

Sweeping generalisation. Given the cost of parking in Civic you could probably rewrite this as “If you start catching the bus you’ll be able to afford a laptop”. Your reduced commuting cost will pay for a new laptop, ultrabook or top of the line smartphone every year.

The marginal cost of driving even quite a fuel-inefficient car is far less than catching the bus, and many are better off parking in the triangle and walking/riding into Civic, which is what creates much of the pressure on parking in the triangle.

Hell, if you have an efficient car, probably the average cost is less than a bus. It’s a joke.

Instead of having free bloody wi-fi, how about making the bus cheaper.

Ok, now this IS a comparison (just to make it clear for you & Tetranitrate).

The value of the bus certainly does depend on the distance you travel. I am not sure why you want to make the bus cheaper because with a little organiseation each trip costs a little over $2.50 so $5.00 a day.

If I lived innner north or inner south that is not terribly good value for money & could be comparable to the running costs of a small car (even better if you had a diesel) but any further out then the bus would start to present reasonable value.

For me, its a 30km trip to work each way, my car uses 11lt/100km around town as an average. Depending on how I drive on any given day the vehicle would use between 6 to 9l per day (estimation only, not an exact calulation) which at $1.34 add up to a minimim cost of $8.04 just for fuel for the day, an immediate saving for me.

So, If I catch the bus every day for the week I am out $25, if I were to drive the car & include parking in the equasion, the cost would be roughly $90 per week (not including any other running cost associated with running a motor vehicle). A significant saving for me & I am happy to let someone else deal with the traffic.

Now, I could go & buy another smaller car to run but then I have to outlay the purchase cost just to save 2-3l per trip, not really a sound method for saving money in my opinion when I can just not drive my larger car & catch the bus.

On topic, not sure I need WIFI on the bus, its quite nice to leave the world behind & read a book on the way home on the bus.

Factor in how much you earn an hour – then remember that from Gunghalin, a 20 minute car ride is an hour and a half bus ride.

This is why I won’t vote greens. I agree with their principles but they seem to have no clue, just picking policies that sound okay but fail to do anything usefulo. This sounds like a good idea at first it makes no sense. Most people now use a smart phone/tablet when on the bus. I know because I catch 4-6 buses every weekday plus a few more on the weekends.

I would like to see Liberal and Labor combine for government. Have Greens as the opposition. It’ll never happen but boy, it’d be awesome to see the look on the GReens faces

What a crap idea.

If you have an iPhone or laptop you want to use on the bus, you can for minimal expense, and with no risk of being involved in yet another government IT disaster-project, simply buy yourself a 3G or 4G card.

Where’s this new government-provided WiFi going to get its internet access from?
The “free” library WiFi and internet access has already ground to a halt, and brought the entire ACT Government internet access down with it.
So, instead of fixing the problems caused by the libraries, the Greens are proposing yet more of an obsolete, unreliable and unnecessary technology to exacerbate existing problems.

Are they running Ken Idjit on their ticket for the next election?

KB1971 said :

On topic, not sure I need WIFI on the bus, its quite nice to leave the world behind & read a book on the way home on the bus.

Why doesnt anyone think of the books….

But, exactly. You can’t work on the bus (well, maybe you could read some documents, but emailing etc is out). And even then that assumes there are no confidentiality issues, which is rare in this town.

Just read a book. I used to love catching the bus, 30min of reading each way, no pressure to do anything else and no one else glaring at you because the dishes arent washed or whatever.

(before people jump up and say ‘you can still catch the bus, just get out of your car’, I now ride to work)

I had to check my calendar to make sure it wasn’t April 1. The Greens once again proving that they are tackling the big issues.

As the page at http://act.greens.org.au/content/greens-pledge-wi-fi-better-connected-canberra wasn’t up until after I responded to Caroline Le Couteur on twitter and on here, I’m not sure if my suggestion of integrating into the real time passenger information system was already considered, but regardless, it is on their proposal now, so my previous comment stands corrected.

The real time passenger information system as I understand it requires every bus to get connected so that they can report in real time, with a connection to major bus stops/interchanges to display information. Allowing free use of the excess capacity of that system, as long as there is minimal extra cost involved makes sense to me.

I have some technical concerns as others have mentioned already, sharing a 2mbit 3G connection over 20+ people will give near dial up speeds (yes Telstra offers up to 40mbit now, but speeds can and do vary wildly), and WiFi APs have limits to the number of concurrent users, which could limit it’s functionality.

With such a small trial roll out, I don’t think it will have any effect on passenger numbers as there is no guarantee of getting a bus with WiFi, and if the speed is too slow, then people will just use their own unfiltered/unmonitored connections instead (greens proposal requires the internet be proxied via the ACT Government filter system)

In terms of government spend, $100k may seem like small change to people used to dealing with figures in terms of tens of millions, but I’m just not seeing the value in the plan yet.

If the aim is to get more people onto public transport, I don’t think this scheme will achieve its goal. The bus network is often overloaded with people during peak as is, so an extra incentive won’t help.
A bit hard to use a laptop on free WiFi when you’re standing, or to use a phone/tablet when one hand is holding onto a hand rail.

devils_advocate said :

patrick_keogh said :

Solidarity said :

If you’re catching a bus you probably can’t afford a laptop anyway.

Sweeping generalisation. Given the cost of parking in Civic you could probably rewrite this as “If you start catching the bus you’ll be able to afford a laptop”. Your reduced commuting cost will pay for a new laptop, ultrabook or top of the line smartphone every year.

The marginal cost of driving even quite a fuel-inefficient car is far less than catching the bus, and many are better off parking in the triangle and walking/riding into Civic, which is what creates much of the pressure on parking in the triangle.

Hell, if you have an efficient car, probably the average cost is less than a bus. It’s a joke.

Instead of having free bloody wi-fi, how about making the bus cheaper.

Ok, now this IS a comparison (just to make it clear for you & Tetranitrate).

The value of the bus certainly does depend on the distance you travel. I am not sure why you want to make the bus cheaper because with a little organiseation each trip costs a little over $2.50 so $5.00 a day.

If I lived innner north or inner south that is not terribly good value for money & could be comparable to the running costs of a small car (even better if you had a diesel) but any further out then the bus would start to present reasonable value.

For me, its a 30km trip to work each way, my car uses 11lt/100km around town as an average. Depending on how I drive on any given day the vehicle would use between 6 to 9l per day (estimation only, not an exact calulation) which at $1.34 add up to a minimim cost of $8.04 just for fuel for the day, an immediate saving for me.

So, If I catch the bus every day for the week I am out $25, if I were to drive the car & include parking in the equasion, the cost would be roughly $90 per week (not including any other running cost associated with running a motor vehicle). A significant saving for me & I am happy to let someone else deal with the traffic.

Now, I could go & buy another smaller car to run but then I have to outlay the purchase cost just to save 2-3l per trip, not really a sound method for saving money in my opinion when I can just not drive my larger car & catch the bus.

On topic, not sure I need WIFI on the bus, its quite nice to leave the world behind & read a book on the way home on the bus.

This is really a Labor plan – obviously it will have to supported by Labor to get through.
Next thing we will have Petal Power demanding equity.

Gungahlin Al said :

Solidarity said :

If you’re catching a bus you probably can’t afford a laptop anyway.

When I don’t ride in, I use the bus, and I am using my phone the entire way. And I ain’t a young’un.

In fact most people on the bus are using their phones or slates. And most experience the 3G signal drop out along Northbourne every day too.

c_c said :

This is why the Greens must never be allowed to govern, or to again have deciding cross votes.

That is a ridiculous expense, particularly when the budget is in the red already. And you can bet it will quickly get abused by nefarious sorts. Free internet is not an essential public service.

Inability to grasp the big picture raises its head in the form of C__C. Perhaps you think bus shelters are a ridiculous waste too? It’s a minimal cost with the spin-off benefit of encouraging more people onto public transport. The more who do, the less parlous our ACT budget from massive road construction expenses.

People need to get their heads around the reality that both health and road costs are running away and threaten to break the bank if we don’t get proactive in our policies. With a property slow down, we’ll be less and less able to rely on land sales to dig us out of the budget hole.

Wifi is an example of investing in order to reduce ongoing costs. In GCC we were pushing for this for quite some time, but the government did nothing. And the Libs couldn’t see reality if it loomed up out of the car exhaust fumes and smothered them. So I think it’s great to be part of the Greens that has this out there now as a policy.

It is kind of redundant. Anyone with a smart phone should habve a decent data plan with it and you can also make wireless hotspots from new smart phones to run your laptop or tablet.

Also Al, while you are here and mentioned bus shelters, i overheard at the pub by a foreman that the new bus shelters going up all around town were supplied and installed by a company flown in from new zealand. While i find this totally disgusting, what is the greens thoughts on it? new bus shelters are great, but why are the not made by a local company, or at very least a australian company?

milkman said :

Buses are for losers. Besides, I already have wi-fi in my car.

Heheh, LIKE A BOSS!

patrick_keogh said :

Solidarity said :

If you’re catching a bus you probably can’t afford a laptop anyway.

Sweeping generalisation. Given the cost of parking in Civic you could probably rewrite this as “If you start catching the bus you’ll be able to afford a laptop”. Your reduced commuting cost will pay for a new laptop, ultrabook or top of the line smartphone every year.

The marginal cost of driving even quite a fuel-inefficient car is far less than catching the bus, and many are better off parking in the triangle and walking/riding into Civic, which is what creates much of the pressure on parking in the triangle.

Hell, if you have an efficient car, probably the average cost is less than a bus. It’s a joke.

Instead of having free bloody wi-fi, how about making the bus cheaper.

G-Fresh said :

In Civic they could just amplify the maccas signal.

What is “Social Media” btw?

Have you ever tried to use the Maccas Wifi? Slower than dial-up. I can get the Pancake parlours wifi on the second floor of our building & we are across the road!

There are plenty of hot spots all around the interchange.

Disclosure: Gunghalin Al is a Greens candidate so of course he’ll toe the party line.

Government had new bus shelters built in partnership with Adshel, thereby providing a useful and practical long term amenity to commuters while reducing the burden to the taxpayer.

That’s clever investment.

Free Wifi?
Where’s the cost/benefit study? ha, the Greens never bother.
How many more passengers will it attract?

I think though the funniest and stupidest part of Al’s argument is that commuters currently struggle with wireless connections due to blackspots.

Well unless the 10 ACTION buses with WiFi are dragging a DSL cable along the kerb, the busses will be using WiFi connected to a cellular connection, and will therefore suffer the same blackspots and congestion in the City as individual users.

It gets worse though. The WiFi users will be sharing a single cellular connection. So instead of each user on their own device enjoying a proper 3G or 4G connection or say, 2Mbps, you’ll have multiple users dividing that. And because it’s public WiFi, it’s unsecured, so you’ll soon have people finding ways to rip it off, either by using the connection to sniff others users, or-

Or because its public, they can anonymously download illegal content. Every kiddie porn consumer in Canberra is going to be hopping on ACTION buses and the Greens will be paying for their content.

Wasteful, ignorant, people. Luckily though the Greens have just about every other party in Australian politics trying to turf them out, so shouldn’t be long before they go the way of the Democrats – who Gunghalin Al has also run for.

So the government sees the problem with an hour travel time in canberra as not having much to do!

Get light rail make it 15 minutes and i’ll spend half an hour at work surfing the net.

milkman said :

Buses are for losers. Besides, I already have wi-fi in my car.

I think you’ll find you have bluetooth. Which gives you an internet connection to nowhere.

How_Canberran said :

Thats right people, lets start flashing about our ‘new laptop, ultrabook or top of the line smartphone’.
I can see the new crime type ‘commuter mugging’ being dealt with in our Courts.

A bit precious… I take my laptop, always my smartphone, sometimes my ultrabook, sometimes my ereader on the bus. I typically have one of them out and in use while I am waiting and when I am on the bus. I have never felt threatened. Once. Ever.

If you want to manufacture stories about how bad the bus service is, how threatening it is or whatever to reinforce your prejudices then go ahead but we ordinary commuters using the bus service know better.

G-Fresh said :

In Civic they could just amplify the maccas signal.

What is “Social Media” btw?

lol, seriously?

Facebook, Twitter etc.

Kind of shows how out of touch with reality the Greens are. Wonder who came up with this idea and what year they think this is? There’s no real need to look for wifi hotspots anymore as 3G services are more than adequate and reasonably priced for most web based activities.

Solidarity said :

If you’re catching a bus you probably can’t afford a laptop anyway.

When I don’t ride in, I use the bus, and I am using my phone the entire way. And I ain’t a young’un.

In fact most people on the bus are using their phones or slates. And most experience the 3G signal drop out along Northbourne every day too.

c_c said :

This is why the Greens must never be allowed to govern, or to again have deciding cross votes.

That is a ridiculous expense, particularly when the budget is in the red already. And you can bet it will quickly get abused by nefarious sorts. Free internet is not an essential public service.

Inability to grasp the big picture raises its head in the form of C__C. Perhaps you think bus shelters are a ridiculous waste too? It’s a minimal cost with the spin-off benefit of encouraging more people onto public transport. The more who do, the less parlous our ACT budget from massive road construction expenses.

People need to get their heads around the reality that both health and road costs are running away and threaten to break the bank if we don’t get proactive in our policies. With a property slow down, we’ll be less and less able to rely on land sales to dig us out of the budget hole.

Wifi is an example of investing in order to reduce ongoing costs. In GCC we were pushing for this for quite some time, but the government did nothing. And the Libs couldn’t see reality if it loomed up out of the car exhaust fumes and smothered them. So I think it’s great to be part of the Greens that has this out there now as a policy.

As a former Swindon-ite, this has been done before with hillarious consequences: http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/9028524.Is_final_chapter_in_wi_fi____saga____near_/,

‘The whole wi-fi saga dates back to 2009, when the council put up £450,000-worth of taxpayers’ cash to provide free wi-fi internet access for the whole of Swindon. But it failed almost totally in meeting its deadlines or objectives, or keeping up with interest payments on the £400,000 it ended up borrowing.’

you heard it here (nearly) first 😉

(BTW £450,000 equates to about $10 on the current exchange rate!)

patrick_keogh said :

Solidarity said :

If you’re catching a bus you probably can’t afford a laptop anyway.

Sweeping generalisation. Given the cost of parking in Civic you could probably rewrite this as “If you start catching the bus you’ll be able to afford a laptop”. Your reduced commuting cost will pay for a new laptop, ultrabook or top of the line smartphone every year.

Thats right people, lets start flashing about our ‘new laptop, ultrabook or top of the line smartphone’.
I can see the new crime type ‘commuter mugging’ being dealt with in our Courts.

Buses are for losers. Besides, I already have wi-fi in my car.

Most people who would be inclined to access the internet whilst catching the bus probably already do so via the data service on their smart phones/tablet computers.

I’m not convinced that the public cost of $100k to set up “at least 10 buses” and the interchanges for one year is worth the benefit of free WiFi for the short time you are on or waiting for a bus.

Sharing a single 3g/4g net connection on a bus via wifi to 50+ people doesn’t sound like a very great idea, and the vast majority of people who would want to access the internet would likely have access to 3g/4g phone that they could use to WiFi tether anyway.

Labor has also already committed $12.5 million to a real time passenger information system, which could implement this at minimal additional cost – http://info.cmcd.act.gov.au/archived-media-releases/media9420.html?v=10918&m=53&s=7

Work together people.

Oh my God, talk about reckless spending……

The Greens are worse than Labor! This and the on-road cycling lanes are huge and irresponsible wastes of good money that could be better spent on healthcare and other USEFUL things in society!!!

RiotACT would be Community Journalism rather than Social Media, in that it’s still curated.

c_c said :

This is why the Greens must never be allowed to govern, or to again have deciding cross votes.

seriously.. if either of the major parties had proposed it it would be considered to be savvy politics, the Greens do it and obviously it’s the end of the economy/world. don’t let the fact that plenty of other cities have similar schemes get in the way of a good Greens-bashing.

G-Fresh said :

What is “Social Media” btw?

This site, for example.

patrick_keogh said :

Solidarity said :

If you’re catching a bus you probably can’t afford a laptop anyway.

Sweeping generalisation. Given the cost of parking in Civic you could probably rewrite this as “If you start catching the bus you’ll be able to afford a laptop”. Your reduced commuting cost will pay for a new laptop, ultrabook or top of the line smartphone every year.

You’ll need more than one a year if you’re using in the presense of interchange junkies

Solidarity said :

If you’re catching a bus you probably can’t afford a laptop anyway.

Sweeping generalisation. Given the cost of parking in Civic you could probably rewrite this as “If you start catching the bus you’ll be able to afford a laptop”. Your reduced commuting cost will pay for a new laptop, ultrabook or top of the line smartphone every year.

In Civic they could just amplify the maccas signal.

What is “Social Media” btw?

This is why the Greens must never be allowed to govern, or to again have deciding cross votes.

That is a ridiculous expense, particularly when the budget is in the red already. And you can bet it will quickly get abused by nefarious sorts. Free internet is not an essential public service.

If you’re catching a bus you probably can’t afford a laptop anyway.

Wow – The Greens propose giving things out to people free. What could go wrong?

As an example, a person catching the 111 from Calwell to Civic or the 313 from
Charnwood to Civic could use free Wi-Fi for about 45 minutes every morning to do
work, write emails, or use social media.”

And LOL – The Greens tell people what they could do on the Internet.

The 1990s called….