Measles at Orana

@steve2277 – you are a hippy and a dimwit. EOM.

A lot of non-vaccinators rely on improvements in modern medicine to cure them (or their kids) when they catch these diseases, but for a lot of them there is just no treatment that exists. Whooping cough there is nothing whatsoever that can be done for sufferers, except to wait it out – which is why people die.

So sad.

I think the govt should get a lot tougher, and actually pay reduced benefits to anyone who won’t vaccinate.

Must’ve been some massive improvements in hygeine in Ireland in 1985, when the number of measles cases dropped from 99000 to 200 in two years. I’m sure the introduction of the measles vaccine that year was just a coincidence.

Comparing today with 17th century London.

I’m convinced.

Based on the spelling, I think he/she might actually be from 17th century London.

Except for “immunize”, of course. One probably shouldn’t argue against things that one can’t spell correctly.

I get annoyed with all the “vaccinate everything that moves” comments.

If oyu look atthe Australian Bureau Of Stats Yera Books between 1884 and 2010 you will find emasles declined by 95% by itself and *before* vaccines came in.

After vaccines, the death rate dropped at the roughly the same rate as before vaccines.

Now simple mathemetaics tells me based on the slope of the graph that if a disease declines at a certain rate without vaccines, and the same rate continues after vacciens, that tells me vaccines have had little or no effect.

People need to do the research before they swallow the medical mantra of immunize immunize immunize, when the rlaity is very differnet.

Afetr the fire oflondon they put in sewers that slowed diseases greatly. All the conditions you get in 3rd world countries – poor sanitation, over crowding, porr diet – were in london too around the same time. No wonder disease was rampant. You can vaccinate all you want, it wont make much difference.

Lets see- Australia has

Good sewers – check
Good standard of living – check
Good nutrition – check
Good medical system – check
Good knowledge of hygeine – check

I recall a GP who I talked to who without me asking,s aid he wouldnt vaccine his child twith the DTaP ( Whooping cough vax ) as he considered it too dangerous. That floored me….

Anyone can sit on the siddelines and take cheap shots.

Please do not write off people who bother to read, research and make an informed decision as “hippies” or “dimwits”. We care about our kids welfare as much as anyone else, we just happen to see the vaccine paradigm is broken and is medaevil medicine.

But wait, there’s more… “At least a dozen people have been diagnosed with measles and three have been hospitalised as an outbreak of the infectious disease which began at the Orana Steiner School in Weston continues.”

(linking to Canberra Times article because I couldn’t find an official update from ACT Health)

From:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/national/national/general/cuts-announced-by-the-government/2374610.aspx

” making the payment of Family Tax Benefit Part A supplement conditional on a child being fully immunised from 1 July 2012. From 1 July 2013, children will be required to receive vaccines for meningococcal C, pneumococcal and varicella to be assessed as fully immunised. From this date, Priorix-Tetra®, a combination vaccine, will be added to the National Immunisation Program. This measure is expected to cost $13 million in 2011-12, but deliver savings of $197 million over four years. “

People forget.

In the 1960’s I saw other kids who had polio. Most parents thought catching chicken pox was good cos you’d be right after that. I was super duper immunised before entering this country. TB injections at school later on, “free” milk to improve dental health, etc. All mandatory programs that achieved results.

And … people forget … or … they are too young to have seen all this. And so, they decide that vaccinations are unecessary based on their beliefs. The rights of the indivudal do not override the rights of the community, particularly in regards to health.

And, vaccinations are not for life. I found out recently when the whooping cough did its rounds. What’s a little coughing you may ask. Well, it kills people, especially babies and old infirmed people.

You can catch measles and chicken pox again.

As for the “hippies” they’re not really. Hippies loved everyone – man.

oh_really said :

Nits. You’re worried about nits? Now I am speechless. The only thing closed around here appears to be your mind! Lets close every school in Canberra that have had nits and see how many are left open. Of all the ignorant things …..

What is it about the human race and our capacity to demonise anyone that is different. Well, let the majority rule – close down Orana as we don’t want those sort of people around our kids. Let’s go back to the good old days of Christian education and buggery all around.

And while we are at it, since perceptions rule. Close down Canberra – the rest of the country keep telling us what a waste of space we are all … well, they have to be right – they are Australians after all. Of course they don’t have to come here and see for themselves… it’s Canberra – everyone knows it is just full of politicians and public servants. Send em all to Adelaide I say. Adelaide – now there’s another sad place that is hardly worth the effort. Snooty nosed ‘never had convicts here’ backward place. And while I’m at it….. what about Mums who drive 4 wheel drives in the city.

Good to see the standard of OTT posts is still high in those made after midnight! 🙂

I agree get rid of those 4 wheel drives.

Mumbucks said :

poetix said :

watto23 said :

Oh before the measles there was also a knit/lice infection a day or two before hand.

That would involve needles…

Surely this is grounds for closure.

Nits. You’re worried about nits? Now I am speechless. The only thing closed around here appears to be your mind! Lets close every school in Canberra that have had nits and see how many are left open. Of all the ignorant things …..

What is it about the human race and our capacity to demonise anyone that is different. Well, let the majority rule – close down Orana as we don’t want those sort of people around our kids. Let’s go back to the good old days of Christian education and buggery all around.

And while we are at it, since perceptions rule. Close down Canberra – the rest of the country keep telling us what a waste of space we are all … well, they have to be right – they are Australians after all. Of course they don’t have to come here and see for themselves… it’s Canberra – everyone knows it is just full of politicians and public servants. Send em all to Adelaide I say. Adelaide – now there’s another sad place that is hardly worth the effort. Snooty nosed ‘never had convicts here’ backward place. And while I’m at it….. what about Mums who drive 4 wheel drives in the city.

poetix said :

watto23 said :

Oh before the measles there was also a knit/lice infection a day or two before hand.

That would involve needles…

absolute purler…

poetix said :

watto23 said :

Oh before the measles there was also a knit/lice infection a day or two before hand.

That would involve needles…

Surely this is grounds for closure.

watto23 said :

Oh before the measles there was also a knit/lice infection a day or two before hand.

That would involve needles…

As someone who travels, I’ve had my fare share of vaccinations for things like Hepatitis, tetanus, yellow fever etc etc. What gets me is there are still a large number of people who just don’t think its worth the money and happy to take the risk. Thats when visiting places where these things are much more real than the bubble we live in Australia….
I realise kids vaccinations are generally free, but that said, people generally just don’t care.

I find the stereo-typing of parents at Orana , interesting! My nephews mother sends my nephew there so she doesn’t have to do any legitimate parenting herself. His results in an ACT public school weren’t great, of course she never made him go to school if he didn’t want to. I believe my brother is trying to get “custody” and make his son go to school. He is actually a good kid, just doesn’t get too many boundaries set for him.

Apparently the games workshop in woden is also another child minding service for her and other parents….

Oh before the measles there was also a knit/lice infection a day or two before hand.

Miz, I would reconsider your views on gardisil. Do you think cervical cancer isn’t life threatening? Do you think kids will be able to avoid all sexual contact indefinitely? Of course not. And once they start this ‘lifestyle’ (without which, they themselves wouldn’t exist!) the horse has bolted for giving the vaccine.

Can you recycle that?

+1. Too right.

HenryBG said :

earthrepair said :

…their ability to make their own informed decisions about their children’s vaccination

Anti-vaccination nonsense is completely non-informed. Parents who don’t get their children vaccinated shouldn’t just lose entitlements, they should be prosecuted for child abuse.

Like another poster here, I was also flabbergasted at the gall of one of these Orana moron-parents complaining about the government without any seeming awareness of the irony of the fact that this serious health incident was caused by the stupid and uninformed decisions made by him and morons like him.

We all know that Orana isn’t just a hive of backwards superstitious nonsense, it is also a hive of potential disease outbreaks.
Considering the poor academic achievements of this school (despite its dishonest conduct of NAPLAN testing), it is high time the government stopped funding this stupid school.

+1

AllyRose, all of my children are fully immunised, and I will tell you why.

I have an uncle who contracted polio as a toddler during an epidemic in Sydney in the 1940s. He lives with the consequences to this day (and he was one of the lucky ones who survived). The polio vaccine was not available at that time. It came in a few years later.

My daughter caught measles at the age of five months from the children next door (in NSW), who were not immunised against anything. My daughter was being fully breast fed at that time but that did not prevent her from catching it. She also got chicken pox before her first birthday (there was no chicken pox vaccine at that time). She subsequently developed a form of epilepsy which was very difficult to control medically, the stress of which caused all manner of hardships for our family, including eventual marriage break up.

I contracted whooping cough as an adult a few years ago, in Canberra, and it was bloody awful. There is a reason why they call it the ‘100 day cough’ – and when I say ‘cough’, I mean, the kind of cough that makes you vomit and wet your pants. FYI, adults don’t get the distinctive hooping sound. I had been fully immunised as a child but my immunity had faded with time. It was reallly hard to work out how I caught it – the only thing I can think of catching it from is that someone was coughing in the ATM queue. It took three GP appointments and a nasal swab at the hospital to identify that I had whooping cough and not just ‘a bad cough’. By then there was no treatment for me, and all my children had to take preventive antibiotics (it’s a bacteria).

For God’s sake, immunise your children people! (I am talking about the childhood illness immunisations here – diphtheria, tetanus, polio, whooping cough, measles, mumps, rubella. I feel quite differently about the gardasil vaccine, as that is behaviourally based and not subject to the same kind of life-threatening epidemics of those listed).

These illnesses are not the common cold. Sure, there was a scare about the MMR vaccine some years ago, but that has now been completely discredited. If your child/ren is/are not immunised, please re-think your decision as these diseases have serious, life threatening implications for everyone.

Clown Killer said :

You’re sh!ting me, there are people so stupid they don’t vaccinate their kids!

yeah, they probably read sites like this – http://www.healingourchildren.org/vaccine_side_effects.htm – which read like the left version of right premised climate denialist sites… o, the fun.

the father of one of the affected children complained in the Canberra Times that he believed the health department had not ‘taken seriously’ his child’s illness, nor acted fast enough to prevent further infections amongst her classmates.
This is particularly galling, given that that very same department would have offered him the opportunity some 10 years earlier to prevent this very situation. He chose not to accept this offer, then fails to take responsibility for the (predictable) outcome?

Exactly. On top of which, there was also a situation where the family were worrying “oh noes what if the baby gets it?” I was especially interested to see that the outbreak was among teens, not youngsters, which could make for some interesting epidemiology considering teens are more likely to have done things like catch buses and hang around at shops and in part time jobs. And given the increase in the unimmunised sector of the population, there will come a point at which an outbreak like this *will* become an epidemic.

When my 7yo was tiny, our GP (then aged around 40) told me he had never seen a case of Measles. I wonder whether that is still true?

oh_really said :

HenryBG said :

earthrepair said :

…their ability to make their own informed decisions about their children’s vaccination

Anti-vaccination nonsense is completely non-informed. Parents who don’t get their children vaccinated shouldn’t just lose entitlements, they should be prosecuted for child abuse.

Like another poster here, I was also flabbergasted at the gall of one of these Orana moron-parents complaining about the government without any seeming awareness of the irony of the fact that this serious health incident was caused by the stupid and uninformed decisions made by him and morons like him.

We all know that Orana isn’t just a hive of backwards superstitious nonsense, it is also a hive of potential disease outbreaks.
Considering the poor academic achievements of this school (despite its dishonest conduct of NAPLAN testing), it is high time the government stopped funding this stupid school.

You guys need to calm down. Especially the above poster who clearly has a grudge against the school.

Poor academic achievements? Get a grip.

Some simple facts – the majority of Orana parents are no different from the parents of other private school parents in Canberra – they want something better for their children. Yes Orana attracts a higher proportion of the ‘alternative’ side of society. But to tar us all with the same brush is as ignorant as the parents not immunising their children.

Want something better for their children, but still expect it to be subsidised by the Government. I’m ok with Government subsidy, just so long as the public schools have the same right to expel difficult students to private schools as private schools have the right to, otherwise, sure, have your private school, but don’t expect it to be subsidised.

HenryBG said :

earthrepair said :

…their ability to make their own informed decisions about their children’s vaccination

Anti-vaccination nonsense is completely non-informed. Parents who don’t get their children vaccinated shouldn’t just lose entitlements, they should be prosecuted for child abuse.

Like another poster here, I was also flabbergasted at the gall of one of these Orana moron-parents complaining about the government without any seeming awareness of the irony of the fact that this serious health incident was caused by the stupid and uninformed decisions made by him and morons like him.

We all know that Orana isn’t just a hive of backwards superstitious nonsense, it is also a hive of potential disease outbreaks.
Considering the poor academic achievements of this school (despite its dishonest conduct of NAPLAN testing), it is high time the government stopped funding this stupid school.

You guys need to calm down. Especially the above poster who clearly has a grudge against the school. Poor academic achievements? Get a grip.

Some simple facts – the majority of Orana parents are no different from the parents of other private school parents in Canberra – they want something better for their children. Yes Orana attracts a higher proportion of the ‘alternative’ side of society. But to tar us all with the same brush is as ignorant as the parents not immunising their children.

earthrepair said :

A nasty piece of government fascism. Parents who want to avail themselves of their legislated taxation entitlements must give up either their ability to make their own informed decisions about their children’s vaccination or give up their legitimate taxation assistance entitlements.How much did the pharmaceutical companies donate to the Labor Government at the last election?

If you’re making an informed choice, then you’re not skipping vaccination is the point.

Judging by your username, no doubt you believe the solution to all ills is a garlic clove necklace and glass of wheatgrass juice.

earthrepair #44 (aka mindless greenie) said:

A nasty piece of government fascism. Parents who want to avail themselves of their legislated taxation entitlements must give up either their ability to make their own informed decisions about their children’s vaccination or give up their legitimate taxation assistance entitlements.How much did the pharmaceutical companies donate to the Labor Government at the last election?
——————————————————————————–
Did you not read my post? Paranoid nutters like you can still get the money if you get a doctor’s certificate saying that you are a ‘conscientious objector’.

Also, like many of your ilk, you do not comprehend the difference between a bonus and an entitlement – everything being an entitlement in your book.

Hope we don’t keep you away from saving the planet with your superior wisdom and knowledge for too long. If people like you were in charge, immunisation would probably be banned as a plot by Big Pharma to make ‘the children’ sick.

earthrepair said :

Make your own informed decision? Informed by who? Jim Carey and Jenny McCarthy? Or ‘Dr’ Andrew Wakefield? *

Be as ill-informed and idiotic as you like with your own health. But when your stupidity risks the health of others, expect to be called on it.

*Andrew Wakefield, the poster boy of the anti-vacc crowd, whose ‘research’ was found to be fraudulent and financially motivated. This corrupt individual has been struck off the medical register and totally discredited, except of course, by the ‘True Believers’.

earthrepair said :

…their ability to make their own informed decisions about their children’s vaccination

Anti-vaccination nonsense is completely non-informed. Parents who don’t get their children vaccinated shouldn’t just lose entitlements, they should be prosecuted for child abuse.

Like another poster here, I was also flabbergasted at the gall of one of these Orana moron-parents complaining about the government without any seeming awareness of the irony of the fact that this serious health incident was caused by the stupid and uninformed decisions made by him and morons like him.

We all know that Orana isn’t just a hive of backwards superstitious nonsense, it is also a hive of potential disease outbreaks.
Considering the poor academic achievements of this school (despite its dishonest conduct of NAPLAN testing), it is high time the government stopped funding this stupid school.

thatsnotme said :

dpm said :

Hmmm…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-25/immunise-or-lose-benefits-parents-told/3694236

A good start, but that only applies to anyone who is actually eligible for the Family Tax Benefit part A. I wonder how many parents who can afford private schooling would pass that benefit’s income tests?

Are you kidding? High income earners are the very people who can get their income down below any threshold through tax deductions and rorts. Unsophisticated middle income earners pay much more tax than rich people.

One aspect of this story that I found disappointing, was that the father of one of the affected children complained in the Canberra Times that he believed the health department had not ‘taken seriously’ his child’s illness, nor acted fast enough to prevent further infections amongst her classmates.
This is particularly galling, given that that very same department would have offered him the opportunity some 10 years earlier to prevent this very situation. He chose not to accept this offer, then fails to take responsibility for the (predictable) outcome?

earthrepair said :

Parents who want to avail themselves of their legislated taxation entitlements must give up either their ability to make their own uninformed decisions about their children’s vaccination

I fixed that for you.

People are entitled to be ignorant, but when their ignorance affects the health of their children and other people’s children, it’s appropriate for the government to step in.

More like communism really, the whole community has decided on a course of action that requires the whole community to participate in to be successful

If successful the whole community will be considerably better off. Forcing the lunatic fringe to comply seems reasonable.

A nasty piece of government fascism. Parents who want to avail themselves of their legislated taxation entitlements must give up either their ability to make their own informed decisions about their children’s vaccination or give up their legitimate taxation assistance entitlements.How much did the pharmaceutical companies donate to the Labor Government at the last election?

Hmmm…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-25/immunise-or-lose-benefits-parents-told/3694236

A good start, but that only applies to anyone who is actually eligible for the Family Tax Benefit part A. I wonder how many parents who can afford private schooling would pass that benefit’s income tests?
—————————————————————————————-
Purely cosmetic ‘action’ by the government.

Anti vax nutters just have to go to a doctor and get a certificate saying that they are ‘conscientious objectors’ and they get the money anyway. The government claims this is a means tested bonus for vaccinating children – but you don’t actually have to vaccinate them to get it if you do the right paperwork.

They are too gutless to take on the anti-vaxers by actually withholding the money if they don’t do it.

dpm said :

Hmmm…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-25/immunise-or-lose-benefits-parents-told/3694236

A good start, but that only applies to anyone who is actually eligible for the Family Tax Benefit part A. I wonder how many parents who can afford private schooling would pass that benefit’s income tests?

@Jethro…… Your post has me pondering, are you standing up for the Steiner parents? Taking the piss? Both? Either way I think it is the best post so far! Also, you have a good insight into the Steiner philosophy knowing about the dolls without faces!

I think we should give the Steiner parents a break.

Sure their kids have all caught measles and are at risk of catching other serious infectious diseases because they don’t belief in vaccinations.

But at least the kids won’t catch autism.

This is particularly important for Steiner kids because if they were to catch autism it would be hard to teach them about human emotions using dolls without faces.

Gee I bet there’s no shortage of Subaru Foresters in the Orana carpark.

allyrose said :

There are many legitimate reasons for parents choosing not to vaccinate their child, including a family history of allergies, reactions to vaccines and auto-immune conditions. Not all are “hippies” and comments about “boiling them down” and “locking them up” are just short-sighted and ignorant. Every parent wants the best for their child and for some families, the risk of the vaccination is higher than most. That’s not to say that it isn’t safe or recommended for most families, it is is to say that for a small minority, vaccinations are not the safest option. How do you know what the situation is for the families at this particular school who don’t vaccinate?

Also, how do you know that the children who got measles weren’t vaccinated? The vaccine isn’t foolproof – it is still possible to get measles when vaccinated – I did.

As for whooping cough, the lady who caught it whilst pregnant most likely caught it from a vaccinated individual. Canberra has one of the highest vaccination rates in the country and last year we had one of the biggest outbreaks of whooping cough. There are many limitations with the pertussis vaccine – the University of NSW did a study which has shown that it only covers 3 of the 5 strains currently in circulation – http://www.science.unsw.edu.au/news/whooping-cough-vaccine-may-be-losing-its-punch-study/ and it is thought that this is due to the bacteria evolving since the change in the vaccine to the acellular version.

Furthermore, since moving to the acellular version the protection is short-lived, relying on boosters every few years – children aged 7-10 are showing waning immunity in recent studies, let alone the adults who haven’t had a booster for years. Even if everyone in Canberra had their booster (which is unrealistic) there cannot be herd immunity with this particular vaccine.

Now before you jump on me and claim that I’m saying ‘don’t vaccinate’ – I’m not. I had my whooping cough booster like a “good parent”. However I don’t agree that it’s a black and white issue and persecuting others for their decisions without all the facts is doing nothing but incite unnecessary hatred.

Religion and backyard science, legitimate reasons are not.

Hmmm…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-25/immunise-or-lose-benefits-parents-told/3694236

el said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

allyrose said :

There are many legitimate reasons for parents choosing not to vaccinate their child

No there are not.

Sure there are:

Ignorance
Stupidity
Selfishness

And probably some others I’ve missed.

Don’t forget criminal negligence.

Sadly there is a loss of corporate memory. Ask grandparents & they remember the 20’s & 30’s when lots of children died in epidemics. Lots of deaf/blind kids around due to rubella and lots of kids in body braces & crutches because of polio. These were almost eradicated so a lot of parents have no experience of these diseases.

Watson said :

I had my child immunised – after considering the alternative for about 5 minutes – so that means that this does not affect her. Nor anyone else who was immunised. So it really isn’t any of my business.

‘fraid not – as pointed out elsewhere, no vaccine is 100% effective. So your kid is still in danger: a much lower danger that if you hadn’t vaccinated, but still in danger.

The main reason for failure to vaccinate is

Nuttiness

colourful sydney racing identity said :

allyrose said :

There are many legitimate reasons for parents choosing not to vaccinate their child

No there are not.

Sure there are:

Ignorance
Stupidity
Selfishness

And probably some others I’ve missed.

I-filed said :

Of course most unvaccinated children in Canberra happen to be safe. That’s only because we aren’t a hippy spacecake enclave, and their Steiner parents are sponging off those parents who do the right thing. Unvaccinated children being perhaps less than half of one per cent of the Canberra population, they are rarely exposed. However, on the north coast of NSW (full of hippies) I recall a 7.30 Report item outlining that the incidence of avoidable vaccinable diseases had risen dramatically amongst children in the area. More than one child died of whooping cough.

Keep spewing forth your uninformed nonsense i-filled. One of the children affected was vaccinated. Oh yes and perhaps you might like to explain why one of the biggest areas in Sydney to have unvaccinated children is the Eastern Suburbs?

Of course most unvaccinated children in Canberra happen to be safe. That’s only because we aren’t a hippy spacecake enclave, and their Steiner parents are sponging off those parents who do the right thing. Unvaccinated children being perhaps less than half of one per cent of the Canberra population, they are rarely exposed. However, on the north coast of NSW (full of hippies) I recall a 7.30 Report item outlining that the incidence of avoidable vaccinable diseases had risen dramatically amongst children in the area. More than one child died of whooping cough.

allyrose said :

As for whooping cough, the lady who caught it whilst pregnant most likely caught it from a vaccinated individual…

Actually, no… It was a friend’s-friend’s child who passed it on… because her parents were too complacent to get her immunised; in this case, not even a belief, just a laziness… (the child had been removed from her parents for negligence). People who CHOOSE not to immunise (because they choose to believe uniformed “research”) put others who CANNOT be immunised, at risk… Everyone has every right to see those people as idiots, if they so choose, and judge them accordingly…

allyrose said :

There are many legitimate reasons for parents choosing not to vaccinate their child

No there are not.

allyrose said :

There are many legitimate reasons for parents choosing not to vaccinate their child, including a family history of allergies, reactions to vaccines and auto-immune conditions. Not all are “hippies” and comments about “boiling them down” and “locking them up” are just short-sighted and ignorant. Every parent wants the best for their child and for some families, the risk of the vaccination is higher than most. That’s not to say that it isn’t safe or recommended for most families, it is is to say that for a small minority, vaccinations are not the safest option. How do you know what the situation is for the families at this particular school who don’t vaccinate?

Also, how do you know that the children who got measles weren’t vaccinated? The vaccine isn’t foolproof – it is still possible to get measles when vaccinated – I did.

As for whooping cough, the lady who caught it whilst pregnant most likely caught it from a vaccinated individual. Canberra has one of the highest vaccination rates in the country and last year we had one of the biggest outbreaks of whooping cough. There are many limitations with the pertussis vaccine – the University of NSW did a study which has shown that it only covers 3 of the 5 strains currently in circulation – http://www.science.unsw.edu.au/news/whooping-cough-vaccine-may-be-losing-its-punch-study/ and it is thought that this is due to the bacteria evolving since the change in the vaccine to the acellular version.

Furthermore, since moving to the acellular version the protection is short-lived, relying on boosters every few years – children aged 7-10 are showing waning immunity in recent studies, let alone the adults who haven’t had a booster for years. Even if everyone in Canberra had their booster (which is unrealistic) there cannot be herd immunity with this particular vaccine.

Now before you jump on me and claim that I’m saying ‘don’t vaccinate’ – I’m not. I had my whooping cough booster like a “good parent”. However I don’t agree that it’s a black and white issue and persecuting others for their decisions without all the facts is doing nothing but incite unnecessary hatred.

Enlightening post, thanks.

I have only really had experience with a couple of unvaccinated kids of parents who had ideological reasons not to do it, so this offers me a new perspective.

allyrose said :

There are many legitimate reasons for parents choosing not to vaccinate their child, including a family history of allergies, reactions to vaccines and auto-immune conditions. Not all are “hippies” and comments about “boiling them down” and “locking them up” are just short-sighted and ignorant. Every parent wants the best for their child and for some families, the risk of the vaccination is higher than most. That’s not to say that it isn’t safe or recommended for most families, it is is to say that for a small minority, vaccinations are not the safest option. How do you know what the situation is for the families at this particular school who don’t vaccinate?

Also, how do you know that the children who got measles weren’t vaccinated? The vaccine isn’t foolproof – it is still possible to get measles when vaccinated – I did.

As for whooping cough, the lady who caught it whilst pregnant most likely caught it from a vaccinated individual. Canberra has one of the highest vaccination rates in the country and last year we had one of the biggest outbreaks of whooping cough. There are many limitations with the pertussis vaccine – the University of NSW did a study which has shown that it only covers 3 of the 5 strains currently in circulation – http://www.science.unsw.edu.au/news/whooping-cough-vaccine-may-be-losing-its-punch-study/ and it is thought that this is due to the bacteria evolving since the change in the vaccine to the acellular version.

Furthermore, since moving to the acellular version the protection is short-lived, relying on boosters every few years – children aged 7-10 are showing waning immunity in recent studies, let alone the adults who haven’t had a booster for years. Even if everyone in Canberra had their booster (which is unrealistic) there cannot be herd immunity with this particular vaccine.

Now before you jump on me and claim that I’m saying ‘don’t vaccinate’ – I’m not. I had my whooping cough booster like a “good parent”. However I don’t agree that it’s a black and white issue and persecuting others for their decisions without all the facts is doing nothing but incite unnecessary hatred.

I like how you say ‘don’t jump to conclusions’ then jump the the conclusion that the person who got whooping cought ‘most likely caught it from a vaccinated individual’!

Anyway, to set this whole story straight, in light of your post, it would be interesting to know how this outbreak started and how many people who caught it were immunised (and if not, why they weren’t – e.g a ‘family history of allergy [to the vaccine?]/autoimmune conditions’ etc) It would then be interesting to know how many kids at Orana have this ‘family history’, when compared to the rate in the general school-aged popn…. Perhaps Orana is a school specifically for families with allergic and autoimmune conditions? 😉

allyrose said :

There are many legitimate reasons for parents choosing not to vaccinate their child, including a family history of allergies, reactions to vaccines and auto-immune conditions. Not all are “hippies” and comments about “boiling them down” and “locking them up” are just short-sighted and ignorant. Every parent wants the best for their child and for some families, the risk of the vaccination is higher than most. That’s not to say that it isn’t safe or recommended for most families, it is is to say that for a small minority, vaccinations are not the safest option. How do you know what the situation is for the families at this particular school who don’t vaccinate?

Also, how do you know that the children who got measles weren’t vaccinated? The vaccine isn’t foolproof – it is still possible to get measles when vaccinated – I did.

As for whooping cough, the lady who caught it whilst pregnant most likely caught it from a vaccinated individual. Canberra has one of the highest vaccination rates in the country and last year we had one of the biggest outbreaks of whooping cough. There are many limitations with the pertussis vaccine – the University of NSW did a study which has shown that it only covers 3 of the 5 strains currently in circulation – http://www.science.unsw.edu.au/news/whooping-cough-vaccine-may-be-losing-its-punch-study/ and it is thought that this is due to the bacteria evolving since the change in the vaccine to the acellular version.

Furthermore, since moving to the acellular version the protection is short-lived, relying on boosters every few years – children aged 7-10 are showing waning immunity in recent studies, let alone the adults who haven’t had a booster for years. Even if everyone in Canberra had their booster (which is unrealistic) there cannot be herd immunity with this particular vaccine.

Now before you jump on me and claim that I’m saying ‘don’t vaccinate’ – I’m not. I had my whooping cough booster like a “good parent”. However I don’t agree that it’s a black and white issue and persecuting others for their decisions without all the facts is doing nothing but incite unnecessary hatred.

Thank you allyrose. And I’m feeling particularly sore and sorry for myself having the MMR vaccine a couple of hours ago. It hurts. A lot.

There are many legitimate reasons for parents choosing not to vaccinate their child, including a family history of allergies, reactions to vaccines and auto-immune conditions. Not all are “hippies” and comments about “boiling them down” and “locking them up” are just short-sighted and ignorant. Every parent wants the best for their child and for some families, the risk of the vaccination is higher than most. That’s not to say that it isn’t safe or recommended for most families, it is is to say that for a small minority, vaccinations are not the safest option. How do you know what the situation is for the families at this particular school who don’t vaccinate?

Also, how do you know that the children who got measles weren’t vaccinated? The vaccine isn’t foolproof – it is still possible to get measles when vaccinated – I did.

As for whooping cough, the lady who caught it whilst pregnant most likely caught it from a vaccinated individual. Canberra has one of the highest vaccination rates in the country and last year we had one of the biggest outbreaks of whooping cough. There are many limitations with the pertussis vaccine – the University of NSW did a study which has shown that it only covers 3 of the 5 strains currently in circulation – http://www.science.unsw.edu.au/news/whooping-cough-vaccine-may-be-losing-its-punch-study/ and it is thought that this is due to the bacteria evolving since the change in the vaccine to the acellular version.

Furthermore, since moving to the acellular version the protection is short-lived, relying on boosters every few years – children aged 7-10 are showing waning immunity in recent studies, let alone the adults who haven’t had a booster for years. Even if everyone in Canberra had their booster (which is unrealistic) there cannot be herd immunity with this particular vaccine.

Now before you jump on me and claim that I’m saying ‘don’t vaccinate’ – I’m not. I had my whooping cough booster like a “good parent”. However I don’t agree that it’s a black and white issue and persecuting others for their decisions without all the facts is doing nothing but incite unnecessary hatred.

I-filed said :

Kuku said :

Lissy said :

I knew several bright children at a Steiner school in Sydney who were held back from reading until a particular set of their molars grew through..

Which set of molars? Would you please share your wisdom with the rest of us.

Gerry-Built said :

being pregnant with Whooping Cough was not a whole lot of fun… for anyone…

…especially our child who was an emergency arrival more than six weeks early…

People who choose not to immunise, put at risk those who CANNOT be immunised. My wife was unable to have the Whooping Cough vaccine, due to allergy to the vaccine. Some lousy bugger passed it on to her during a pregnancy; being pregnant with Whooping Cough was not a whole lot of fun… for anyone…

Parents who don’t immunise their kids should be boiled down and made into Soylent Green. At least then they’d have been of some benefit to society.

SOME parents don’t immunise. But hey, don’t let the facts stand in the way of a good group think flaming.

😀
Call an urgent school assembly for families that chose not to immunise their kids. Lock them up in a hall. Send in black trucks with decontamination teams, armed with flame-throwers.The rest…….
Problem solved. My kind of approach. 🙂

I agree with other posters- those hippies are irresponsible when it comes to duty of care towards wider community. Bet they wear “crocs” too. LOL

After updating my own vaccination, I’m now offering Reiki and homeopathic treatment for measles. Any concerned parents may get in touch through the usual channels. Hot rocks and skin cupping can also be good for adults with the illness and please note that my treatments for measles will all include a small amount of “acupuncture.”

You’re sh!ting me, there are people so stupid they don’t vaccinate their kids!

Not surprised at all that a measles outbreak is happening at Orana. During my time there with my kid we were subjected to all sorts of anti vac propaganda. It was taken as a sign of commitment to the magic of Steiner.

Rusalka said :

Yes, it’s your choice to inflict preventable diseases with horrible side effects onto your children who don’t have a choice of their own. Sometimes choices are illogical and wrong, and people should feel fine to make these stupid choices if they only impact them, but not immunising children is not one of those choices.

+1 completely agree.

I’ve had the discussions with the parents who are against immunisation and I just cannot get past the thought that they mustn’t have read their history books. Or have a very short memory. But as I said, it’s no skin off my nose.

Provided you don’t have an under 1yo who might have been inside Cooleman Court with one of the affected children before they were placed into quarantine?

It’s also skin off all of our noses if the epidemic becomes significant or ongoing, due to the impact it has on the health system that we all pay for – which is already stretched.

I know a few doctors who are no doubt walking the corridors of TCH muttering under their breaths this week.

There are a few parents at the school who chose not to vaccinate their children. It is their choice….same as in the public, private and Catholic school systems. And no, they won’t be wishing they had vaccinated their children because they accept getting a dose of whatever is a consequence of their choices

Unfortunately, other people in the community who these infected children may have come into contact with (under 1yos, pregnant women, people who are immunocompromised) may not have made that choice. How many people in their 40s or younger know they have had two doses of MMR? I have, but possibly only because of overseas travel.

Measles is one of the most easily spread of all human infections. Just being in the same room as someone with measles can result in infection. (Source: ACT Health fact sheet) A patient is infectious for over a week, for several days of which they may have symptoms that resemble cold/flu but not the characteristic rash.

I was very excited to move to Canberra. I thought, from what I read on the web, Orana would be an excellent school for my children. However, when I called to attend the Orana playgroup with my children I was told I would have to attend a “coffee morning” before I would be invited to attend the playgroup with my children. I asked if the “coffee morning” was simply a chance for the other parents to check me out before they decided if I was a suitable parent. The answer was YES.

Guess where my children did not go to playgroup or school?

kakosi said :

It’s a serious problem that diseases which can be immunised against are not because of adults (who were no doubt immunised by their caring parents as children) decide to take a risk with their children’s lives. If this were the attitude of people a few decades ago we’d still have Smallpox outbreaks (which don’t happen now cause it was eradicated with a worldwide vaccination program).

Little comfort to the individuals who catch this illness as the side effects include: pneumonia, bronchitis, encephalitis, otitis media (leading to hearing loss) and thrombocytopenia. And if a pregnant woman comes into contact with the disease it can cause miscarriage, premature birth and a low birth-weight baby.

Source: Mayo Clinic

I had my child immunised – after considering the alternative for about 5 minutes – so that means that this does not affect her. Nor anyone else who was immunised. So it really isn’t any of my business. Until kids start dying or suffering lasting damage, then it would become a child protection issue, I suppose.

I’ve had the discussions with the parents who are against immunisation and I just cannot get past the thought that they mustn’t have read their history books. Or have a very short memory. But as I said, it’s no skin off my nose.

Kuku said :

Lissy said :

Bet the hippies wished they had immunised now.

Seriously though, I do hope the kids recover soon and are not too badly effected.

There are a few parents at the school who chose not to vaccinate their children. It is their choice….same as in the public, private and Catholic school systems. …

I thought the laws had changed about a year ago and it is now compulsory to have your kids vaccinated if they go to school.

btw homeopathic vaccination is bunkum. As is the Steiner philosophy! Rudolph Steiner was into phrenology for gawwsakes. Not to mention his own version of Aryan eugenics … he is often described as an “ancestor of Nazism”. I knew several bright children at a Steiner school in Sydney who were held back from reading until a particular set of their molars grew through. They were only allowed to recite fairy tales and draw, and were immensely frustrated. They all caught up eventually when sent to normal school, but were way behind at first.

Kuku said :

There are a few parents at the school who chose not to vaccinate their children. It is their choice….same as in the public, private and Catholic school systems. And no, they won’t be wishing they had vaccinated their children because they accept getting a dose of whatever is a consequence of their choices. I don’t agree with that but that is my choice. But hey, don’t let a good generalisation stand in the way of your comments.

Yes, it’s your choice to inflict preventable diseases with horrible side effects onto your children who don’t have a choice of their own.

Not to mention the children of other peoples who choose to immunise but can’t as their child is too young, and then is also much weaker to fight off the disease your child gives them but could survive from.

Sometimes choices are illogical and wrong, and people should feel fine to make these stupid choices if they only impact them, but not immunising children is not one of those choices.

It’s a serious problem that diseases which can be immunised against are not because of adults (who were no doubt immunised by their caring parents as children) decide to take a risk with their children’s lives. If this were the attitude of people a few decades ago we’d still have Smallpox outbreaks (which don’t happen now cause it was eradicated with a worldwide vaccination program).

Little comfort to the individuals who catch this illness as the side effects include: pneumonia, bronchitis, encephalitis, otitis media (leading to hearing loss) and thrombocytopenia. And if a pregnant woman comes into contact with the disease it can cause miscarriage, premature birth and a low birth-weight baby.

Source: Mayo Clinic

I hope they can get some homeopathic remedies for this ailment

Lissy said :

Bet the hippies wished they had immunised now.

Seriously though, I do hope the kids recover soon and are not too badly effected.

There are a few parents at the school who chose not to vaccinate their children. It is their choice….same as in the public, private and Catholic school systems. And no, they won’t be wishing they had vaccinated their children because they accept getting a dose of whatever is a consequence of their choices. I don’t agree with that but that is my choice. But hey, don’t let a good generalisation stand in the way of your comments.

Brings a new meaning to a gifted child I suppose, if they have been gifted measles.

If only there were some sort of vaccine against this disease…

Bet the hippies wished they had immunised now.

Seriously though, I do hope the kids recover soon and are not too badly effected.