7 June 2013

Stop making fun of the Winters family or they "well kell oll you muts"

7 June 2013 | johnboy

This exciting email just in:

to contact
From: dylan winters
Subject: f*** you

Message Body:

you no if you kep saing thes stuf i well kell you oll you muts and josh winters i my and i men my big bruther so f*** off naw

Not quite flame of the week. A bit on the short side.

The Winters had completely escaped my mind but after a bit of searching I imagine it’s related to allegedly ramming a stolen car into a passing motorist and leaving that motorist to die in the burning wreckage.

Which I think we can all agree is a class act only matched by that email.

[Photo Courtesy ACT Policing]

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Henry821:22 am 11 Jun 13

Took me a while to translate, but it appears this little boy doesn’t like people writing about his brother breaking the law. Dylan, keep you and your family out of the legal system, and nobody will need to talk about you. 🙂

Someonesmother4:26 pm 10 Jun 13

I agree oldaq I took in a young bloke of junkie parents when he was 16, not formally and didn’t get paid to do it, he was a school friend of my son’s. I had rules and I had boundaries and told them to him up front and gave him a choice abide by them or don’t come in to my home your choice. We exposed him to what a family and extended family is, fed him good food regulalry and schooled him. He has turned out to be a young man I am proud of and he told me the other day how much we have changed his life and he can see now what a scum bag he could have been if he had never had the opportunities and exposure to a different life. He is now 25 and is a functioning memebr of society. He sees his parents for what they are I was alwasy careful never to run them down to him but asked him to look at them with eyes open. So yes there is hope if someone takes the time and invests some love and care, not for all of them but even one is a win for society. It takes a village to raise a child and we haev forgotten how to be villagers

milkman6:17 pm 09 Jun 13

Laughing at criminal under-bogans is better (for them) than the obvious alternative.

Brindabella4:11 pm 09 Jun 13

oldaq said :

But look, I was classist before that kid pulled me up on it. It’s really easy to do. Your peers do it. It’s normal. I can understand the underlying social issues that lead to you behaving this way… But you’re still accountable for your actions. And you should know that your actions don’t prevent the crime or ignorance that you detest, they just contribute to a divided society.

This was a great post. Thanks for writing this. As I type here in my flannelet shirt, drinking a beer and reflecting on my past, I get it. I spent most of my formative life living in the housing commission parts of Charnwood, attended “Charnie high” from 7-10 and now live in the upper heights of Bruce in absolute luxury. Never underestimate the effect one brief encounter can make on an individual…

54-113:37 pm 09 Jun 13

oldaq said :

Thanks for the replies. I’m glad to’ve started a debate. I think this is an important topic. So this is to anyone who’s gripping to their views that this kid deserves your scorn…

It’s true that the “welfare class” aren’t as broadly discriminated against as some minorities. But they ARE discriminated against. By us. By me. By you. It’s such an automatic reaction that you don’t even notice you’re doing it. You look at them differently. You look at them with some mixture of scorn, fear, snap judgement and just plain hatred. You don’t even see them, the person. You see an icon. You see in one angry girl every pregnant teen; in one drawn toothless bloke every drug-fucked criminal; in one bearded bikie every racist womaniser. They’re loud, they’re ignorant, and they’re everything you’re not, because you’re a GOOD person. Because you got to where you are through EFFORT and CLEVERNESS; the things that they obviously lack. You don’t think these things consciously, because they’re so ingrained. But they’re all contained in that look. The look which you don’t know you’re giving but which that low-pantsed boy sees and feels every day of his life.

I was walking through the bus interchange one day and a mean looking ‘bogan’ kid said to me “why’d you look at me like that!?”. A pretty standard fight-starting line. But I saw something other than riling in his eyes. I saw actual proper hurt. I HAD glanced at him. I didn’t mean to give a harsh look. But in hindsight, judgemental thoughts probably had popped into my head. So when he looked at me and his face showed hurt and frustration mixed in with the anger, I felt suddenly ashamed.
He gets that look every day, from everyone with nice shoes and a cardboard coffee. It wears away at him, because he’s no dummy and he knows what they’re all thinking. He knows everyone thinks he’s a stupid useless no-hoper. And he can’t see any way to stop their scorn, or to prove them wrong. Because it’s not just him. He sees people look at his mum that way too, and his brother and sister, and his grandpa, and his friends, and his friend’s dad, and even his uncle’s f**king dog gets stares and tut-tuts! And that s**t wears away at a person. Same opportunities as us? Maybe in theory, but culture can have more influence than opportunity. And I challenge anyone here to look me in the eye and say “If I’d been born into his family, I’d be fine.”

And people who accuse me of defending his actions, take note. There’s a vast difference between a reason and an excuse. Culture can be a reason (or contributing factor) for a person’s actions. But it’s not an excuse. Because it doesn’t stop individuals from being accountable for their actions.

But look, I was classist before that kid pulled me up on it. It’s really easy to do. Your peers do it. It’s normal. I can understand the underlying social issues that lead to you behaving this way… But you’re still accountable for your actions. And you should know that your actions don’t prevent the crime or ignorance that you detest, they just contribute to a divided society.

Bugger. I thought your first post was actually a brilliant piece of irony and I quite enjoyed it. Wee constructed. But you were serious? Please tell me this is just another deliberate wind-up.

Dilandach3:26 pm 09 Jun 13

oldaq said :

Same opportunities as us? Maybe in theory, but culture can have more influence than opportunity. And I challenge anyone here to look me in the eye and say “If I’d been born into his family, I’d be fine.”

It depends on the person, it does have some part but not the totality of who they become. It can quite easily go the other way too. One of my cousins, coming from a very good family. Well off financially, not home of violence, great educational opportunities… What did he do with it? Nothing. He quite literally became a bum. A drifter moving from city to city, writing rubber cheques to supermarkets, sitting on the corner in busy cities with a cardboard sign. Drinking, gambling and constantly lying at every opportunity.

He stole money and booze from his and my 90 year old grandfather. He stole DVDs from libraries. He would commonly stay in the Gatwick Hotel in Melbourne (probably one of the worst places in Australia).

Having opportunities stemming from the social environment in which they grew up does not necessarily mean that they’re tapped for success in life. Just as people growing up in bad environments are not doomed to become drug addicts, drunks or just pests to society. A lot of a person’s destiny is what they make of it not what excuses they can come up with on why they couldn’t make anything of themselves.

ScienceRules12:29 pm 09 Jun 13

bundah said :

@ oldaq

How magnanimous of you although I would suggest that none of what you’ve articulated is ever going to change the fact that many of them are quite simply lowlife scum with no real conscience nor concern for how their actions will negatively affect the lives of decent humans.

Yep.

Spiral12:05 pm 09 Jun 13

Thank you oldaq. That was very enlightening and I for one now feel ashamed that we live such a dreadful society, one where the government tattoos the foreheads of these unfortunates at birth so that their unfortunate upbringing is obvious at a glance.

Like I’m sure many other people, I have a dream where these people weren’t indelibly branded and instead, with a simple neatening up of their clothing and general appearance, and with ceasing to drop the “F” and “C” words every few seconds, they could blend in with our civilised society. Perhaps in such a utopian world they wouldn’t feel so ashamed when people look at them.

Yes I know it is a fanciful dream.

gungsuperstar11:32 am 09 Jun 13

oldaq said :

Thanks for the replies. I’m glad to’ve started a debate. I think this is an important topic. So this is to anyone who’s gripping to their views that this kid deserves your scorn…

It’s true that the “welfare class” aren’t as broadly discriminated against as some minorities. But they ARE discriminated against. By us. By me. By you. It’s such an automatic reaction that you don’t even notice you’re doing it. You look at them differently. You look at them with some mixture of scorn, fear, snap judgement and just plain hatred. You don’t even see them, the person. You see an icon. You see in one angry girl every pregnant teen; in one drawn toothless bloke every drug-fucked criminal; in one bearded bikie every racist womaniser. They’re loud, they’re ignorant, and they’re everything you’re not, because you’re a GOOD person. Because you got to where you are through EFFORT and CLEVERNESS; the things that they obviously lack. You don’t think these things consciously, because they’re so ingrained. But they’re all contained in that look. The look which you don’t know you’re giving but which that low-pantsed boy sees and feels every day of his life.

You sir, are a f*cking idiot.

I can only speak for myself – but I think you’re making a crazy, stupid assumption and telling people what they think, rather than actually bothering to read them.

No one has bagged them for being on welfare. No one has bagged them their societal standing.

They’re bagging them because of their criminal behaviour, because of their sense of entitlement, because of their laziness to make something better of themselves (which many of US from the lower class fight to do) and because of the stupidity of making public threats and admission of crime.

But please, do reply and attempt your pathetic, low-rate attempt at psycho analysis and tell me what I really think.

djk12:55 am 09 Jun 13

To quote his brother:
“dylan learn to spell u f***ing retarded c**t”

oldaq6:06 pm 08 Jun 13

Thanks for the replies. I’m glad to’ve started a debate. I think this is an important topic. So this is to anyone who’s gripping to their views that this kid deserves your scorn…

It’s true that the “welfare class” aren’t as broadly discriminated against as some minorities. But they ARE discriminated against. By us. By me. By you. It’s such an automatic reaction that you don’t even notice you’re doing it. You look at them differently. You look at them with some mixture of scorn, fear, snap judgement and just plain hatred. You don’t even see them, the person. You see an icon. You see in one angry girl every pregnant teen; in one drawn toothless bloke every drug-fucked criminal; in one bearded bikie every racist womaniser. They’re loud, they’re ignorant, and they’re everything you’re not, because you’re a GOOD person. Because you got to where you are through EFFORT and CLEVERNESS; the things that they obviously lack. You don’t think these things consciously, because they’re so ingrained. But they’re all contained in that look. The look which you don’t know you’re giving but which that low-pantsed boy sees and feels every day of his life.

I was walking through the bus interchange one day and a mean looking ‘bogan’ kid said to me “why’d you look at me like that!?”. A pretty standard fight-starting line. But I saw something other than riling in his eyes. I saw actual proper hurt. I HAD glanced at him. I didn’t mean to give a harsh look. But in hindsight, judgemental thoughts probably had popped into my head. So when he looked at me and his face showed hurt and frustration mixed in with the anger, I felt suddenly ashamed.
He gets that look every day, from everyone with nice shoes and a cardboard coffee. It wears away at him, because he’s no dummy and he knows what they’re all thinking. He knows everyone thinks he’s a stupid useless no-hoper. And he can’t see any way to stop their scorn, or to prove them wrong. Because it’s not just him. He sees people look at his mum that way too, and his brother and sister, and his grandpa, and his friends, and his friend’s dad, and even his uncle’s f**king dog gets stares and tut-tuts! And that s**t wears away at a person. Same opportunities as us? Maybe in theory, but culture can have more influence than opportunity. And I challenge anyone here to look me in the eye and say “If I’d been born into his family, I’d be fine.”

And people who accuse me of defending his actions, take note. There’s a vast difference between a reason and an excuse. Culture can be a reason (or contributing factor) for a person’s actions. But it’s not an excuse. Because it doesn’t stop individuals from being accountable for their actions.

But look, I was classist before that kid pulled me up on it. It’s really easy to do. Your peers do it. It’s normal. I can understand the underlying social issues that lead to you behaving this way… But you’re still accountable for your actions. And you should know that your actions don’t prevent the crime or ignorance that you detest, they just contribute to a divided society.

gungsuperstar12:06 am 08 Jun 13

oldaq said :

Wow. These comments are shameful folks. Bogan bashing is the last widely accepted form of discrimination. Or to use the proper word, classism. And that’s what you’re doing here with your jibes at this guy’s intellect. His violent threat is horrible, sure. But his language is a product of his society. He speaks like that either due to poor education, or to fit in with his peers. Either way, his por speling is a product of his environment. He didn’t get the opportunities you did.

Look, if I said to you “Those abos are dole-bludging, lazy, alcoholic criminals”, you’d react (and rightly so). You might reply “Well yes they’re over-represented in our prisons, but you have to look at the underlying social issues to understand what is a complex situation involving generational cycles of abuse and reactions to social and political powerlessness etc etc”. Well these exact arguments can be made about the blue-collar/welfare-receiving white australian lower classes in their council flats on Northbourne and popping out babies in western sydney. And your holier-than-thou jibes only entrench the problems you see.

So put down your latte and your scorn, and back the f*** off. Naw.

I can’t tell whether you’re taking the piss or not. The example you used where you compared the denigration of people who historically were treated as animals, and thus given no opportunities, to white folk who were given education, housing and opportunity is stupid.

To me the essence of a bogan is the deliberately uneducated. They remain so because, in their heart of hearts, they believe society owes them something.

Which is why “work” is going to Centrelink and getting pissed off when they won’t hand over money, and when “trying to get my life back on track” is stealing a car, pranging it and leaving a flaming wreckage, victim included, in your wake.

I will stick up for minority groups – the Indigenous, the LGBTIs, the poor… those people can’t help being who they are and shouldn’t be made to feel bad about it.

This is in direct contrast to the lazy, deliberately ignorant and uneducated bogan who did have the opportunities of housing and education to change who they were, and they should be made to feel bad about their decision to sabotage and harm society rather than contribute to it.

Anyway, disappointing thread. The Rebecca Massey story today took me back to the the halcyon days of junkie bogans and their entourages using drug money to buy computers so they could carry out their dispute on the pages of the Riot Act, and other hangers on trying to appear “street” with an “I know who you are, I know more than you” attitude that most laughed at the patheticness of.

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