20 more reasons to not catch the bus

Time is money.

That’s why driving a car is cheaper than catching a bus.

I must be the minority. Because *gasp* I enjoy catching the bus and find it convenient. Perhaps I’ve just always lived in places that are serviced well by ACTION.

I’m also not too fussed about the fares going up. It’s still significantly cheaper than driving. I seem to only be putting $50 on my card every 3-4 weeks and I can’t even park my car in the city for $50 a week. Let alone petrol costs ontop of parking fees.

Yes it is quicker to drive to work than catch the bus but I enjoy my time zoning out with my music or throwing angry birds at pigs. Plus I’m getting some added exercise walking to and from the bus stops.

Yes catching the bus in the summer heat sucks, but so does getting into a car that has been baking in the sun for 8-10hours.

cyla said :

I wouldn’t call it selfish, maybe lazy.
I am not about to ride a bike to work and then have to bother with showering and doing hair makeup etc and the fact you don’t cool down even if you have a cold shower. 6kms would take me 30mins or so to ride, and then I would have to do the above. Instead it takes me around 10 minutes to drive and I can go straight to my desk and have a coffee without melting.

Here’s a tip: 6km is not far enough to build up a sweat so you really don’t need to have a shower. Anyway, I would have assumed you’d have a shower before you drove to work so I don’t see how having one at work instead changes anything other than your employer is then paying for the hot water (more saved $$$).

I wouldn’t call it selfish, maybe lazy.
I am not about to ride a bike to work and then have to bother with showering and doing hair makeup etc and the fact you don’t cool down even if you have a cold shower. 6kms would take me 30mins or so to ride, and then I would have to do the above. Instead it takes me around 10 minutes to drive and I can go straight to my desk and have a coffee without melting.

Mathman said :

Ways to make using the bus more economical than a car is to make car registration free

Excuse me?

Antagonist said :

Jethro said :

God Canberrans can be whingers. $2.65 for a bus ticket that can take you from one side of the city to the other.

As far as public transport costs go compared to other cities, that’s pretty bloody cheap. Even the cash fare of $4.20 is reasonable.

I agree! Assuming that someone is travelling across Canberra from one suburb to another that could work out to as little as $1.33 per hour…… There would be very few transport networks that could provide that kind of service for that price.

Yeah, right. There are very few networks that can consistently turn a 30 minute drive into a 2 hour + bus ride. There are also very few transport networks that can run at $100 million per year loss and continue to operate. How are they going with the $45k+ daily running costs for empty busses? Yeah – they are providing a great service for $125 million per year. Not!

Canberra has a very small population and very low density. It isn’t particularly suited to a proper public transport network. Something like Brisbane’s busway network simply wouldn’t work here because population size and density make it impractical.

I do like the idea of having small mini-buses serving suburbs and group centres, and group centres having express buses to town centres and civic.

Most public transport networks are subsidised. They’re not there to run a profit but to assisst with the movement of people. Could Action do it better? Definitely. Is $2.65 a reasonable price to pay for a bus from Holt to Civic? Very reasonable.

c_c™ said :

Mathman said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

eatthatfrog said :

With the increases the fare and the monthly cap, I will now be paying up to $106.00 a month or $1,272.00 a year.

Cheaper than petrol bro

So unless you live deep dark south Tuggeranong or the frontier settlements of West Belconnen on north Gungahlin, then no, the bus fare is not cheaper than petrol.

+registration and CTP
+oil
+servicing
+tyres
+insurance

Betting that’s a whole heap more than $1219

Except that I still have to pay for those costs even if I leave my car in the garage. The only way using a bus is cheaper than using a car is if I don’t have a car.

Of course the government’s way of addressing this is to make car ownership even more expensive, but that that makes it even more expensive to use the bus instead of the car. Ways to make using the bus more economical than a car is to make car registration free or including 1000 free bus tickets with your car rego – anything that lowers the cost of leaving the car at home.

davo101 said :

BBQNinja said :

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/399214/TAMS_ANNUAL_Report_Vol_2_11-12.pdf

Page 130, more explanation on page 151.

Action’s incoming revenues were $113m. Only $22m of that was fares/charters/etc. The rest was DIRECTLY PAID FOR BY THE ACT GOVERNMENT.

Read that again, and take it in. Fares pay for UNDER 20% of the cost of providing the bus service.

Bottom line: The busses should be free with an ACT license/ID card, your local taxes have already paid for the busses anyways.

In Sydney fares cover between 10 and 30% of the cost, Canberra is ~20%, what’s your point? By your logic buses and trains in Sydney should be free.

Sounds good to me. They could pay the difference (and then some) with a broad-based land-tax.

BBQNinja said :

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/399214/TAMS_ANNUAL_Report_Vol_2_11-12.pdf

Page 130, more explanation on page 151.

Action’s incoming revenues were $113m. Only $22m of that was fares/charters/etc. The rest was DIRECTLY PAID FOR BY THE ACT GOVERNMENT.

Read that again, and take it in. Fares pay for UNDER 20% of the cost of providing the bus service.

Bottom line: The busses should be free with an ACT license/ID card, your local taxes have already paid for the busses anyways.

In Sydney fares cover between 10 and 30% of the cost, Canberra is ~20%, what’s your point? By your logic buses and trains in Sydney should be free.

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/399214/TAMS_ANNUAL_Report_Vol_2_11-12.pdf

Page 130, more explanation on page 151.

Action’s incoming revenues were $113m. Only $22m of that was fares/charters/etc. The rest was DIRECTLY PAID FOR BY THE ACT GOVERNMENT.

Read that again, and take it in. Fares pay for UNDER 20% of the cost of providing the bus service.

Bottom line: The busses should be free with an ACT license/ID card, your local taxes have already paid for the busses anyways.

cyla said :

There is no incentive to take a bus if you only have a short trip. I travel 6kms to work each day and I don’t have to pay for parking so why would I bother paying $5 a day to wait around for a bus? If each trip cost me $1, then I might consider it, but it seems to only be worth it if you have to pay a fortune for parking in the city. Instead I enjoy the comfort of my car, and take a parking spot from someone who has to drive from the other side of town. I think the fare should be based on how far you go, like in a taxi and it should be really cheap if you just need to get a few kms to the shops etc.

Then you’d have folks like me out in the boondocks having to pay $10 to spend an hour on the lumping bus just for a glimpse of civilisation. I like the way you were able to admit how selfish you are to drive the three minutes into work and take a spot from someone on the far-side of town, but it confuses me that you realise it and yet don’t bus it or bike it or, just for the novelty, walk. 6 kms isn’t all that far, even on foot and (assuming you aren’t crippled) is probably the most straight-forward way of getting your daily halfhour of exercise.

davo101 said :

cyla said :

I travel 6kms to work each day

That’s within bike range–total cost too small to bother counting.

Bingo

cyla said :

I travel 6kms to work each day

That’s within bike range–total cost too small to bother counting.

I must be old, I can remember when bus fares were 80 cents and the outrage when they went upto a dollar!

There is no incentive to take a bus if you only have a short trip. I travel 6kms to work each day and I don’t have to pay for parking so why would I bother paying $5 a day to wait around for a bus? If each trip cost me $1, then I might consider it, but it seems to only be worth it if you have to pay a fortune for parking in the city. Instead I enjoy the comfort of my car, and take a parking spot from someone who has to drive from the other side of town. I think the fare should be based on how far you go, like in a taxi and it should be really cheap if you just need to get a few kms to the shops etc.

Jethro said :

God Canberrans can be whingers. $2.65 for a bus ticket that can take you from one side of the city to the other.

As far as public transport costs go compared to other cities, that’s pretty bloody cheap. Even the cash fare of $4.20 is reasonable.

I agree! Assuming that someone is travelling across Canberra from one suburb to another that could work out to as little as $1.33 per hour…… There would be very few transport networks that could provide that kind of service for that price.

Yeah, right. There are very few networks that can consistently turn a 30 minute drive into a 2 hour + bus ride. There are also very few transport networks that can run at $100 million per year loss and continue to operate. How are they going with the $45k+ daily running costs for empty busses? Yeah – they are providing a great service for $125 million per year. Not!

c_c™ said :

+registration and CTP
+oil
+servicing
+tyres

Betting that’s a whole heap more than $1219

+insurance
+parking

Jethro said :

God Canberrans can be whingers. $2.65 for a bus ticket that can take you from one side of the city to the other.

As far as public transport costs go compared to other cities, that’s pretty bloody cheap. Even the cash fare of $4.20 is reasonable.

You miss the point, jethro.

We don’t whinge because of the fare increase. We whinge because of the excuse that it is to cover “improvements” we never seem to see, and bus shelters they’re not even paying for which don’t provide much in the way of shelter at all. Not to mention that they increase fare costs to cover “rising costs of operation” in a business that loses millions of dollars per annum.

It’s daft, there is no other word for it.

Jethro said :

God Canberrans can be whingers. $2.65 for a bus ticket that can take you from one side of the city to the other.

As far as public transport costs go compared to other cities, that’s pretty bloody cheap. Even the cash fare of $4.20 is reasonable.

Cheap for Australia? Because other countries seem to have fares set up a lit cheaper even for subways for instance which have a lot more overhead.

I think the increases are very minor. The prices are very reasonable, especially compared to other networks. ACTION have some of the newest fleet in the country too, so I think a few increases to cover new infrastructure to go with the newer buses isn’t much of an ask.

Mathman said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

eatthatfrog said :

With the increases the fare and the monthly cap, I will now be paying up to $106.00 a month or $1,272.00 a year.

Cheaper than petrol bro

Hmm, let’s see…

$1,272 will buy 848 litres of petrol at $1.50/litre.

The average Australian car gets 11l/100km fuel economy.

848 litres of petrol at 11l/100km gets you 7,709km or just over 33km per day based on 46 work weeks (leave + public holidays).

So unless you live deep dark south Tuggeranong or the frontier settlements of West Belconnen on north Gungahlin, then no, the bus fare is not cheaper than petrol.

+registration and CTP
+oil
+servicing
+tyres

Betting that’s a whole heap more than $1219

God Canberrans can be whingers. $2.65 for a bus ticket that can take you from one side of the city to the other.

As far as public transport costs go compared to other cities, that’s pretty bloody cheap. Even the cash fare of $4.20 is reasonable.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

eatthatfrog said :

With the increases the fare and the monthly cap, I will now be paying up to $106.00 a month or $1,272.00 a year.

Cheaper than petrol bro

Hmm, let’s see…

$1,272 will buy 848 litres of petrol at $1.50/litre.

The average Australian car gets 11l/100km fuel economy.

848 litres of petrol at 11l/100km gets you 7,709km or just over 33km per day based on 46 work weeks (leave + public holidays).

So unless you live deep dark south Tuggeranong or the frontier settlements of West Belconnen on north Gungahlin, then no, the bus fare is not cheaper than petrol.

“I do not expect the fare increase to impact negatively on passenger numbers”

to reduce demand on parking you raise the cost
to reduce demand for cigarettes you raise the cost
but
raising the cost of buses won’t change demand

eatthatfrog said :

I hit my cap every month.

At the moment, that costs me up to $90.72 a month, or $1,088.64 a year.

With the increases the fare and the monthly cap, I will now be paying up to $106.00 a month or $1,272.00 a year.

So unless I hack my finishing times, I will now be paying $183.86 extra a year. Of course, *that* information is stuck at the bottom of the press release.

Thanks, ACTION!

Cheaper than petrol bro

Having grown up in Canberra..I feel your pain.

http://www.hsl.fi/EN/Pages/default.aspx

Train, Metro, Tram, Bus…THIS is public transport…it is 99.9% on time too 🙂 AND…Roads are great if you drive…snow cleared within 12 hours…:)

schmeah said :

Paying more for the honour of riding Canberra’s totally inefficient bus network! Yay!

I’m still waiting for the government to upgrade the buses which plough the inner, suburban networks. I’ve been getting the number 2 bus – from Woden to Dickson – for about 3 years and the number of times I’ve seen little, old, walking frame ladies struggle to get onto those old, sweaty buses is really depressing. I dread that one day it will end with one of them being seriously hurt. It just seems the government has been promising this upgrade for a very long time now.

Given the route takes in the local, low-density residential network – as opposed to the direct routes which take in those living in high-density environments might use (along Northbourne etc) – where most of our senior citizens would reside I’m surprised the government has not at least tried to prioritse these buses.

Sure, the useage isn’t as high, but couldn’t they have shared the upgrade around more?

Action bus network has always been rubbish, long before self-government came along and took over.

RedDogInCan said :

“I do not expect the fare increase to impact negatively on passenger numbers. At this stage, I think the key to more passengers is to introduce more frequent and convenient services.”

No sh*t, Sherlock! And the plans to introduce more frequent and convenient services are….?

From the press release:

“Catching an ACTION bus daily to and from Civic remains $41.00 per week cheaper than driving and parking, not including additional costs such as petrol.”

What coolaid are these people drinking. Catching a bus is $41 per week cheaper only if you get rid of your car completely and rely solely on ACTION to transport you around town – good luck with that.

Nail hit on head. I relied on buses for many years before I could afford my own transport, and it was difficult to get around. I expect it would still be very difficult to rely solely on public transport in Canberra. So even if you catch a lot of buses, you’ll still have a car if you can afford one.

The thing that makes it difficult for my wife and I is that neither of us live close to where we work due to circumstances outside our control, which would mean multiple trips and long waits for both of us. Factors like that mean that I suspect it’ll be a long time before I’ll be commuting on buses.

“I do not expect the fare increase to impact negatively on passenger numbers. At this stage, I think the key to more passengers is to introduce more frequent and convenient services.”

No sh*t, Sherlock! And the plans to introduce more frequent and convenient services are….?

From the press release:

“Catching an ACTION bus daily to and from Civic remains $41.00 per week cheaper than driving and parking, not including additional costs such as petrol.”

What coolaid are these people drinking. Catching a bus is $41 per week cheaper only if you get rid of your car completely and rely solely on ACTION to transport you around town – good luck with that.

ML-585 said :

schmeah said :

ML-585 said :

So would you prefer fares to not increase and thereby spreading the burden of increased running costs across all ACT ratepayers?

No. I would prefer that increases to the fare were accompanied by tangible improvements to the service.

So yes, in other words. Cost increases have to either be paid by someone, or else costs have to be reduced – take your pick.

No argument about the level of service: Brisbane and Perth are examples of how well bus services can be run (and both of these cities still have room for improvement).

BUT – the fares on these services are substantially more than here. Even with the new fare increase, Canberra will still be cheaper than any mainland state capital (Darwin and Hobart are cheaper). Do we have the population/taxation base required to pay for substantial service improvements (such as additional buses, more frequent routes, more direct routes etc.), and would the average passenger be prepared to pay (say) $5 per trip if such improvements could be magically delivered overnight?

Rollersk8r said :

I think it should be free before, say, 7am in the morning as an incentive to ease traffic congestion – but making it completely free wouldn’t do much to increase patronage. In my opinion cost is the least of all factors stopping people from using it.

Perhaps not free, but possibly a reduced fare prior to 7am would be a great idea. Of course, if they did that they may then need to increase the peak fare to compensate for the reduced fare revenue. Certainly worth considering.

Your in-house know-how indicates you work for ACTION. I rest my argument from here on.

Oh chill out, that’s a tiny increase.

Try heading to Sydney or Melbourne where the motorway fees, $40 parking spots and public transport fares really stack up.

A 5% increase is cheap compared to everything else in Canberra. The people voted for this government (well sort of) so we have to suck it up and deal with it.

schmeah said :

ML-585 said :

So would you prefer fares to not increase and thereby spreading the burden of increased running costs across all ACT ratepayers?

No. I would prefer that increases to the fare were accompanied by tangible improvements to the service.

So yes, in other words. Cost increases have to either be paid by someone, or else costs have to be reduced – take your pick.

No argument about the level of service: Brisbane and Perth are examples of how well bus services can be run (and both of these cities still have room for improvement).

BUT – the fares on these services are substantially more than here. Even with the new fare increase, Canberra will still be cheaper than any mainland state capital (Darwin and Hobart are cheaper). Do we have the population/taxation base required to pay for substantial service improvements (such as additional buses, more frequent routes, more direct routes etc.), and would the average passenger be prepared to pay (say) $5 per trip if such improvements could be magically delivered overnight?

Rollersk8r said :

I think it should be free before, say, 7am in the morning as an incentive to ease traffic congestion – but making it completely free wouldn’t do much to increase patronage. In my opinion cost is the least of all factors stopping people from using it.

Perhaps not free, but possibly a reduced fare prior to 7am would be a great idea. Of course, if they did that they may then need to increase the peak fare to compensate for the reduced fare revenue. Certainly worth considering.

ML-585 said :

eatthatfrog said :

I hit my cap every month.

At the moment, that costs me up to $90.72 a month, or $1,088.64 a year.

With the increases the fare and the monthly cap, I will now be paying up to $106.00 a month or $1,272.00 a year.

So unless I hack my finishing times, I will now be paying $183.86 extra a year. Of course, *that* information is stuck at the bottom of the press release.

Thanks, ACTION!

For starters, thank Andrew Barr. I re-checked the Budget Papers to see if I’d missing something and I hadn’t. The numbers shown in the budget were based on the monthly cap remaining as 36 trips, although it was also based on the fares increasing on 1 January rather than 4 February.

In any case, as eatthatfrog proves, the change to the monthly cap can result in up to a 16% increase in fares.

There are still a few ways to reduce your fare. Since you always reach your monthly cap, you should register for autoload, or at least schedule regular payments through BPAY: this will reduce your $2.65 fare back to $2.52. You should also try to maximise your off-peak travel, since this will still count towards the monthly cap: depending on where you work, try catching a bus during your lunch break – travel one stop and walk back, and/or leave work after 6pm (I’m aware that’s not always feasible).

schmeah said :

Paying more for the honour of riding Canberra’s totally inefficient bus network! Yay!

So would you prefer fares to not increase and thereby spreading the burden of increased running costs across all ACT ratepayers?

No. I would prefer that increases to the fare were accompanied by tangible improvements to the service. In around the 5 years I’ve been living here the quality of the service has remained basically the same, slow, unreliable and inaccessible to anyone with a mobility issue or pushing a pram but price rises have always been used to pay for these alleged improvements.

Anyone living in another capital city (except maybe Sydney) would be gobsmacked by our bus network. In 5 years, the improvements to Brisbane’s bus service – accessiblility services, eletronic service updates, shelters, upgrades to all buses and the construction of bus only by-passes totally, absolutely craps all over anything ACTION attempts to do .. which is really pretty basic; upgrade the buses and provide a feed about arrival times. WOW.

eatthatfrog said :

I hit my cap every month.

At the moment, that costs me up to $90.72 a month, or $1,088.64 a year.

With the increases the fare and the monthly cap, I will now be paying up to $106.00 a month or $1,272.00 a year.

So unless I hack my finishing times, I will now be paying $183.86 extra a year. Of course, *that* information is stuck at the bottom of the press release.

Thanks, ACTION!

Well it is still less than half of what it costs if you were to use pay parking every day (not including petrol, rego etc).

shirty_bear said :

They’re idiots, this gubbmint. They want people on buses; they should be removing every possible disincentive.

Previous talk here on RA suggests bus fares are a very minor revenue stream. It makes sense to make them either really cheap, or free. That’ll get people on board.

I think it should be free before, say, 7am in the morning as an incentive to ease traffic congestion – but making it completely free wouldn’t do much to increase patronage. In my opinion cost is the least of all factors stopping people from using it.

They’re idiots, this gubbmint. They want people on buses; they should be removing every possible disincentive.

Previous talk here on RA suggests bus fares are a very minor revenue stream. It makes sense to make them either really cheap, or free. That’ll get people on board.

“The fare changes reflect rising costs of operation and improvements to the public transport system …”

Reflects improvements? On what planet? I laughed so hard at this part that I almost forgot to be outraged at a 6c increase in the concessional fare.

arescarti42 said :

A 13 cent increase in bus fare?

Well there’s my Euro holiday down the drain.

LOL! 🙂

eatthatfrog said :

I hit my cap every month……….So unless I hack my finishing times, I will now be paying $183.86 extra a year. Of course, *that* information is stuck at the bottom of the press release.

Thanks, ACTION!

Sneaky. Got to admit it’s a great way of slugging commuters an extra ~16% while being able to claim that fares are only going up “5%”.

eatthatfrog said :

I hit my cap every month.

At the moment, that costs me up to $90.72 a month, or $1,088.64 a year.

With the increases the fare and the monthly cap, I will now be paying up to $106.00 a month or $1,272.00 a year.

So unless I hack my finishing times, I will now be paying $183.86 extra a year. Of course, *that* information is stuck at the bottom of the press release.

Thanks, ACTION!

For starters, thank Andrew Barr. I re-checked the Budget Papers to see if I’d missing something and I hadn’t. The numbers shown in the budget were based on the monthly cap remaining as 36 trips, although it was also based on the fares increasing on 1 January rather than 4 February.

In any case, as eatthatfrog proves, the change to the monthly cap can result in up to a 16% increase in fares.

There are still a few ways to reduce your fare. Since you always reach your monthly cap, you should register for autoload, or at least schedule regular payments through BPAY: this will reduce your $2.65 fare back to $2.52. You should also try to maximise your off-peak travel, since this will still count towards the monthly cap: depending on where you work, try catching a bus during your lunch break – travel one stop and walk back, and/or leave work after 6pm (I’m aware that’s not always feasible).

schmeah said :

Paying more for the honour of riding Canberra’s totally inefficient bus network! Yay!

So would you prefer fares to not increase and thereby spreading the burden of increased running costs across all ACT ratepayers?

““We are making ongoing improvements to ACTION, including installing new bus shelters”

I thought these (the clear ones) were being supplied free by a private comapany in return for being allowed t oput their advertising posters on/in them?

ACTION buses run at a multi million dollar loss anyway, why don’t they just make the fares zero?

A 13 cent increase in bus fare?

Well there’s my Euro holiday down the drain.

I hit my cap every month.

At the moment, that costs me up to $90.72 a month, or $1,088.64 a year.

With the increases the fare and the monthly cap, I will now be paying up to $106.00 a month or $1,272.00 a year.

So unless I hack my finishing times, I will now be paying $183.86 extra a year. Of course, *that* information is stuck at the bottom of the press release.

Thanks, ACTION!

Paying more for the honour of riding Canberra’s totally inefficient bus network! Yay!

I’m still waiting for the government to upgrade the buses which plough the inner, suburban networks. I’ve been getting the number 2 bus – from Woden to Dickson – for about 3 years and the number of times I’ve seen little, old, walking frame ladies struggle to get onto those old, sweaty buses is really depressing. I dread that one day it will end with one of them being seriously hurt. It just seems the government has been promising this upgrade for a very long time now.

Given the route takes in the local, low-density residential network – as opposed to the direct routes which take in those living in high-density environments might use (along Northbourne etc) – where most of our senior citizens would reside I’m surprised the government has not at least tried to prioritse these buses.

Sure, the useage isn’t as high, but couldn’t they have shared the upgrade around more?

johnboy said :

to be fair just use google maps and it will tell you what bus to catch.

Now that I didn’t know, that is very very good!

buzz819 said :

I was looking at the Action website the other day to try and find a bus to catch to Belconnen Mall. Why don’t they use a googlemaps type site, you know, click on the bus stop you want to catch a bus from and it lists the routes from there?

Um, they *do* use Google.
It’s right there on their front page:
https://www.action.act.gov.au/

5% is cheap in comparison to rates, utilities, parking and everything else.

I was looking at the Action website the other day to try and find a bus to catch to Belconnen Mall. Why don’t they use a googlemaps type site, you know, click on the bus stop you want to catch a bus from and it lists the routes from there?