Free Education at KSS?

BeeGee said :

Has anyone asked ACTION if they can put an extra staff member on the KSS buses ramdomly? Mind you it shouldn’t have to resort to that.

First of all, bullies are the scum of the earth.

But if this is happening on ACTION buses, is it the schools responsibility ?

Personally if its the same students causing problems on the bus, they should be denied access. Maybe when the parents are forced to come pick their children up or have them walk a great distance home, they can wake up to themselves and teach their children respect for others.

trickyxr said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

trickyxr said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

#29 bigotted poster is a bigot

How so please explain… Piss me off

you
can
not
be
serious

Yes real serious you wierdo, explain how i am a bigot or are you to stupid to do so? The post #29 would describe them as been the bigots not me, so explain to me how my response is a biggoted response of a biggot..
I
am
serious
you
are
weirdo

Okay, I will put it as simply as I can for you. You go to pains to point out that the trouble makers are ‘from a different country’ – if they were born in Australia would you have said the trouble makers are ‘from Australia’.

You then go on to evoke xenophobia through ‘they have a pack mentality’ which you then add to by dragging in the extended families. These points by themself don’t mean much but when you throw in that they ‘are from a different country’ your dog whistle is so loud my bulldog has pricked up her ears and the poor old girl has been dead for 30 years.

Has anyone asked ACTION if they can put an extra staff member on the KSS buses ramdomly? Mind you it shouldn’t have to resort to that.

georgesgenitals said :

I found out the other day that a very large percentage of parents DON’T pay the voluntary contribution. I am amazed by this. If everyone kicked in, public schools would be better resourced for everyone’s kids.

Unbelievable.

The thing is, most parents didn’t question paying “subject levies” (etc), but as soon as the name changed to “Voluntary Contributions” (along with the required commentary in an accompanying letter), the amount collected dropped to negligible (and when that happened, they stopped teachers being able to look at the books, you know – “privacy” and all that).

Schools rely on that funding, particularly the Elective subjects. The shortfall/gap was never, ever covered by the ACT Government. If you truly believe in a Free Education, pressure the Government to adequately fund Public Education as well… don’t just assume they’ll get the message from your refusal to pay anything.

trickyxr said :

You people make me sick.. what would you know? … I am not racist but do have a problem with Idiot dogooders… So all go and have a cry and winge to someone who cares because i dont care what you think..

I apologise now for any dogooding and will stop giving you the benefit of the doubt.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

trickyxr said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

#29 bigotted poster is a bigot

How so please explain… Piss me off

you
can
not
be
serious

Yes real serious you wierdo, explain how i am a bigot or are you to stupid to do so? The post #29 would describe them as been the bigots not me, so explain to me how my response is a biggoted response of a biggot..
I
am
serious
you
are
weirdo

Kan said :

GG’s quote: I found out the other day that a very large percentage of parents DON’T pay the voluntary contribution. I am amazed by this. If everyone kicked in, public schools would be better resourced for everyone’s kids.

Well, GG, they are not going to pay because certain people believe public schooling should be free for everything including excursions and camps! While I have always paid for everything, others refused to pay for anything. Here I was forking out hundreds of dollars while others cried poor (which some of them weren’t) and the school used funds to pay for their children’s excursions etc. I am not kidding – most excursion notes have ‘voluntary contribution’ instead of ‘cost’ written on the permission notes. Some of these excursions cost only $5 for a bus ride but no, these people refused because anything to do with public schooling has to be free. Not surprised public schooling has such a bad rep with this type of attitude.

I will always pay it, because it’s the right thing to do. If other parents want to be scumbags, that’s up them, but I’d rather be a better role model for my children than that.

trickyxr said :

I can’t write the response that I want to for your post, because it wouldn’t be polite to have in a public forum. … how easy it is to blame the kids from “another country” for all of the trouble…. How strange of their families to stick up for each other… real “aussies” wouldn’t do that??? hmmm..and I thought I was living in Canberra, not Alabama!!

Dont be shy, Idiot, I was telling you about yesterdays fight on the bus and the lock down in the school are realated to same bunch of kids who are from another country But lets not beat around the bush here they are African and are causing all sorts of problems.

Today they have again caused crap on the morning bus and have now thretned to get there cousins to bring knifes

Sounds like a job for the Police.

Erg0 said :

housebound: Conversely, labelling a group of “kids from another country” as racist because they’re at odds with the school’s anglo population, as trickyxr did, is equally incorrect.

You people make me sick.. what would you know? These people are racist towards white people so no need to stick up for them they are what they are. Why am i racist or a bigot for purely pointing out what group of kids are causing these problems. They are the African kids, not all of the african kida at the school, but all of the group are africans.
I am not racist but do have a problem with Idiot dogooders… So all go and have a cry and winge to someone who cares because i dont care what you think..

trickyxr said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

#29 bigotted poster is a bigot

How so please explain… Piss me off

you
can
not
be
serious

I think part of the problems they are having with kids at the school is that there is no respect for the principal. Bring Bill back. He was doing a much better job early last year. At least the kids and parents respected him. Its time for the current principal to retire, like he should have last year.

As for these kids causing problems, simple expell them. Us parents are tired of hearing about our kids being bullied.

So much for the bullying program that was supposed to have started, I haven’t seen any evidence of it.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

#29 bigotted poster is a bigot

How so please explain… Piss me off

I can’t write the response that I want to for your post, because it wouldn’t be polite to have in a public forum. … how easy it is to blame the kids from “another country” for all of the trouble…. How strange of their families to stick up for each other… real “aussies” wouldn’t do that??? hmmm..and I thought I was living in Canberra, not Alabama!!

Dont be shy, Idiot, I was telling you about yesterdays fight on the bus and the lock down in the school are realated to same bunch of kids who are from another country But lets not beat around the bush here they are African and are causing all sorts of problems.

Today they have again caused crap on the morning bus and have now thretned to get there cousins to bring knifes

Most schools are resorting to this method of getting school fees paid and the bookpacks at the same time. I’m guessing in a hope that more families pay the fees. If you dont want to pay school fees, give up some of your time by volunteering at the school.

All I know is that the orders are to be paid to the school and then passed on to Jacaranda.

housebound said :

Identifying a problem with a group of kids who happen to come from a specific community isn’t necessarily racist. What would be racist would be to assume that everyone from that community is equally as badly behaved just because of their racial background. Labelling all Charny residents as bogans would be an example of the type of generalisation I mean (deliberately picking a non-racial example for the sake of argument). Otherwise, it would be racist to say ‘the big, blonde kid over there beat someone up’ (almost always anglo)* – which happens just as much as ‘the big [name of race] kid over there beat someone up’

* Some of our best friends are anglo, and blonde.

‘These kids are from another country and have a pack mentality’ If it looks liek a duck and quacks like a duck…

housebound: Conversely, labelling a group of “kids from another country” as racist because they’re at odds with the school’s anglo population, as trickyxr did, is equally incorrect.

Identifying a problem with a group of kids who happen to come from a specific community isn’t necessarily racist. What would be racist would be to assume that everyone from that community is equally as badly behaved just because of their racial background. Labelling all Charny residents as bogans would be an example of the type of generalisation I mean (deliberately picking a non-racial example for the sake of argument). Otherwise, it would be racist to say ‘the big, blonde kid over there beat someone up’ (almost always anglo)* – which happens just as much as ‘the big [name of race] kid over there beat someone up’

* Some of our best friends are anglo, and blonde.

#29 bigotted poster is a bigot

KSSparent said :

trickyxr said :

KSSparent said :

The problems at the school and yesterdays fight on the bus are been caused by the same bunch of kids, These kids are from another country and have a pack mentality. They call in family members to sort out there problems and are stalking kids at kippax and charnwood shops. I for one have contacted the principal and he doesnt want admit that this minority group is been racist towards the majority at our school.

I can’t write the response that I want to for your post, because it wouldn’t be polite to have in a public forum. … how easy it is to blame the kids from “another country” for all of the trouble…. How strange of their families to stick up for each other… real “aussies” wouldn’t do that??? hmmm..and I thought I was living in Canberra, not Alabama!!

I remember “real Aussies”(1) doing exactly that, on exactly the same turf. Haven’t you seen the car loads of “related Aussies”, with baseball bats, looking for the black bastard who called someone’s slut, a slut.

(1)”Real Aussies” not being adverse to tracking down a group, based on their culture, for a beating.

Same old……..Good to see “Family Values” in action.

GG’s quote: I found out the other day that a very large percentage of parents DON’T pay the voluntary contribution. I am amazed by this. If everyone kicked in, public schools would be better resourced for everyone’s kids.

Well, GG, they are not going to pay because certain people believe public schooling should be free for everything including excursions and camps! While I have always paid for everything, others refused to pay for anything. Here I was forking out hundreds of dollars while others cried poor (which some of them weren’t) and the school used funds to pay for their children’s excursions etc. I am not kidding – most excursion notes have ‘voluntary contribution’ instead of ‘cost’ written on the permission notes. Some of these excursions cost only $5 for a bus ride but no, these people refused because anything to do with public schooling has to be free. Not surprised public schooling has such a bad rep with this type of attitude.

georgesgenitals said :

I found out the other day that a very large percentage of parents DON’T pay the voluntary contribution. I am amazed by this. If everyone kicked in, public schools would be better resourced for everyone’s kids.

Unbelievable.

If that’s the case then I’m genuinely shocked. I wouldn’t think twice about kicking in an extra hundred bucks a year to improve the quality of my child’s education.

shirty_bear said :

ALL payable to the school? Odd. Odder than odd. Is it payable to some sort of school fund so as to make the whole lot tax deductible? If so, then at least there’s an upside. If not, the whole thing’s a scandal and I, for one, would play no part.

fwiw, the primary schools all seem to have this scheme to make fees tax deductible; we always paid the requested amount. Apparently this is too difficult for our high school to arrange, so I’m not paying. If I’m subsidising a shortfall in govt funding, at the very least I want it deductible.

The only part of school fees that can be tax deductible are for the library or building funds. These can only be used for the library and building. By having these established however schools can then use funds from the government for other things. I know that Canberra High School has a tax deductible component. The school has to make an application to the ATO for Tax Deductibility status prior to offering the option to parents. Not sure about any of the other high schools…

trickyxr said :

KSSparent said :

The problems at the school and yesterdays fight on the bus are been caused by the same bunch of kids, These kids are from another country and have a pack mentality. They call in family members to sort out there problems and are stalking kids at kippax and charnwood shops. I for one have contacted the principal and he doesnt want admit that this minority group is been racist towards the majority at our school.

I can’t write the response that I want to for your post, because it wouldn’t be polite to have in a public forum. … how easy it is to blame the kids from “another country” for all of the trouble…. How strange of their families to stick up for each other… real “aussies” wouldn’t do that??? hmmm..and I thought I was living in Canberra, not Alabama!!

ALL payable to the school? Odd. Odder than odd. Is it payable to some sort of school fund so as to make the whole lot tax deductible? If so, then at least there’s an upside. If not, the whole thing’s a scandal and I, for one, would play no part.

fwiw, the primary schools all seem to have this scheme to make fees tax deductible; we always paid the requested amount. Apparently this is too difficult for our high school to arrange, so I’m not paying. If I’m subsidising a shortfall in govt funding, at the very least I want it deductible.

KSSparent said :

Well, expect more trouble at the school today because there was another brawl on the school bus yesterday afternoon. The police were called and the kids were trapped on the bus for about an hour before they could continue along the way. It’s okay to say that the fights are caused by other people coming to the school, but why are they coming there at all? People don’t just show up at a school unprovoked! And you only hear of issues from the kids, never from the school which seems to have a fairly laxidaisical approach to communication with parents. It would be interesting to know the facts of what happened, rather than the kids perspective of what goes on!!!

The problems at the school and yesterdays fight on the bus are been caused by the same bunch of kids, These kids are from another country and have a pack mentality. They call in family members to sort out there problems and are stalking kids at kippax and charnwood shops. I for one have contacted the principal and he doesnt want admit that this minority group is been racist towards the majority at our school.

I found out the other day that a very large percentage of parents DON’T pay the voluntary contribution. I am amazed by this. If everyone kicked in, public schools would be better resourced for everyone’s kids.

Unbelievable.

Well, expect more trouble at the school today because there was another brawl on the school bus yesterday afternoon. The police were called and the kids were trapped on the bus for about an hour before they could continue along the way. It’s okay to say that the fights are caused by other people coming to the school, but why are they coming there at all? People don’t just show up at a school unprovoked! And you only hear of issues from the kids, never from the school which seems to have a fairly laxidaisical approach to communication with parents. It would be interesting to know the facts of what happened, rather than the kids perspective of what goes on!!!

As for the book packs, it says:

the following points regarding the order forms need to be emphasised:

Prepayment for all forms is required…

There is no option there to take the form to Jacaranda to order a pack, in fact, the forms do not say anywhere that the orders are through Jacaranda (although its fairly safe to assume I think that they are) – everything is to be made out to the school and the notes are on school letterhead, cheques are to be made payable to the school .. .. and $60 for for voluntary contribution – that still leaves $186 for the books – some of which I am sure I don’t need because of the electives next year… but how would you know which because it doesn’t say what classes they are for, and we don’t know which classes the kids will be in yet???

And as for uniforms, you can’t buy second hand ones when there aren’t any second hand ones. …

2604 said :

Nothing to do with poor leadership in schools, zero accountability for principals, or a misguided philosophy which more and more tends towards an attitude of “the kid and parents are always right”?

Feel free to make your own mind up on that one… I’m talking about the attitude that “education is free”. Where parents think that because they pay taxes, they shouldn’t have to pay anymore. Those “Voluntary Contributions” that schools ask (and might ‘disguise’ because they desperately NEED the funds) for are relied on by schools to provide materials and resources. With those mostly dried up, due to the fact they are called ‘voluntary’, and the fact that the Government has not moved to cover the gap – schools either fund the difference from their School Based Management funding, or drop the least important costly things out of their program. For example, no longer are excursions tied into assessment, in case someone decides they don’t want to pay – or the School has to cover it. Every cent of the budget that does not come in from VCs means money shifted from SBMs. Faculty budgets are rarely ever increased, but often cut, but VCs are still factored in to budgets, despite the fact they rarely come in nowadays.

If parents were aware of how hard their schools are doing it, how poorly resourced their schools are – and what an affect this has on their children, they might be a little more forthcoming with the VCs.

Perhaps if schools and their staff felt a little bit more valued by the Government and the community, the standard you are talking about might increase too.

Parents need to stop running the “free education” mantra, and help support their community schools… especially if it isn’t actually a hardship for them.

Gerry-Built said :

I-filed said :

Is it a public school? If so, you don’t have to pay anything at all. They cannot make you.

Ahhh yes… that’s the attitude that continues to lower the standard of the education programs across the city…

Nothing to do with poor leadership in schools, zero accountability for principals, or a misguided philosophy which more and more tends towards an attitude of “the kid and parents are always right”?

Also lockers were only $15 this year

My son attends KSS in year 8. KSS only goes to year 8 at the moment. As for the constant lock downs, I have only heard of 1 and that was because of outside people coming into the school. The bullying is a problem but is at all schools. I would say the head master and his assistants are fairly useless, speaking to them is like hitting your head against a brick wall.I have friends whos kids attend Melba and Belconnen high and they have the same issues, so i dont think removing your kids will help anyone in fact it will only make things harder for your child.

hopefully KSS will take advantage of the new behaviour support partners that are coming in next year… designed to work together with principals to address things like bullying etc.

mind you, I have heard the principal is a jerk… from sources other than here. dont forget he did suffer a serious medical condition just as the school opened. that cant have been helpful.

all new schools go through teething problems. hopefully they will sort it out next year.

i’m sure the kambah one will have the same problems next year. although they are working on a different model of having 2 principals.

must……not……post…..

Some schools include the ‘voluntary’ contribution in the Jacaranda book pack, and call it something inane like ‘paper resource fee’ or ‘computer fee’. I think this is a scam – particularly as Jacaranda has some kind of kick back to the school for book packs purchased, and, after all, ‘voluntary’ does not mean ‘sneaky’.

I always crossed that bit out, and paid the ‘voluntary’ contribution when and how I could – usually in part-payments.

I have complained to the Dept of Ed about it, to no avail.

Gerry-Built said :

I-filed said :

Is it a public school? If so, you don’t have to pay anything at all. They cannot make you.

Ahhh yes… that’s the attitude that continues to lower the standard of the education programs across the city…

You know, having a uniform actually saves you money from having to buy name brand clothing. Jacaranda packs are sourced from Jacaranda, and while a little more pricey, the business runs along ethical practices – buying Aussie wherever possible (besides – you CAN source all that stuff yourself instead AFAIK). Lockers are cost recovery. If you continue to think education is free, you’ll be getting your money’s worth… believe me…

It should be free – that’s what taxpayers are paying for – for other people’s children and, eg in the case of my parents, paying private boarding school fees for three kids on top of the tax burden (this was in the days before private schools were heavily subsidised by the government).

I-filed said :

Is it a public school? If so, you don’t have to pay anything at all. They cannot make you.

Ahhh yes… that’s the attitude that continues to lower the standard of the education programs across the city…

You know, having a uniform actually saves you money from having to buy name brand clothing. Jacaranda packs are sourced from Jacaranda, and while a little more pricey, the business runs along ethical practices – buying Aussie wherever possible (besides – you CAN source all that stuff yourself instead AFAIK). Lockers are cost recovery. If you continue to think education is free, you’ll be getting your money’s worth… believe me…

troll-sniffer said :

Being that close to Charnie it probably costs more to maintain than schools located further away from the end of Belco.

Charnwood is a feeder suburb for Melba Copland Secondary School…

far_northact said:
“All excursions are optional, as are photos and additional lessons. You dont _have_ to pay for these things.

All ACT schools have second hand uniform shops, or look in classifieds for same.

If its a school you have an issue with – join the P&C or relevant committees and have your say where it counts.”

farq said :
Alternatively, move your kids to another school.

Excursions such as the swimming carnival & track & field carnival count towards your child/ren’s grade in sport.They are are compulsory for years 2-9. Photos are a keep sake that I would like to have for children.

As Kss is only in it’s second year there isn’t much in the way of the second hand uniform’s & all classifieds is not much help as KSS has a new uniform totally different to any school in Canberra, why do I know this, well I helped decide on & pick uniforms (I voted for another design & colour scheme)

I am on the P & C committee have been since before KSS school opened, I will admit to not attending meeting of late due to family commitments & the fact that my problems need to address by the school board not the P&C, Bullying and in school problem have nothing to do with P&C we can only voice our concerns to the Principal who attends to give his report. Speak my mind, give my concerns, I can say been there done that. BANG HEAD ON BRICK WALL

Lastly I can’t move my children to another school as they are enrolled in a special needs classes and as KSS is my & only in area school that caters to my children”s needs I can’t move then plus I very happy with their educational needs being meet, my problem is the lack of care outside the classroom. Before & after school, Recess & lunch.

Is it a public school? If so, you don’t have to pay anything at all. They cannot make you.

I really dont think the school is bad at all. My biggest gripe is with the front office staff, who seem to have no experience in a school front office. After my children were signed in late one morning, I recieved a phone call at 12pm asking if I knew where they were. Turns out the lady who enters late arrivals into the system had never done such a task before and mucked it up.

Over the last 2 years our family has been blessed with fantastic teachers and only a small amount of schoolyard bullying, which was resolved as quickly as it arose. I find it saddening that all families are not having as positive a time at KSS as we are.

ConanOfCooma said :

Build a Fritzl dungeon and “Home School” them.

And let the baby bonus take care of school fees….

far_northact said :

If its a school you have an issue with – join the P&C or relevant committees and have your say where it counts.

Alternatively, move your kids to another school.

One of the major reasons I purchased my home was it was within walking distance of a primary school, but before my kids could attend it Andrew Barr closed it down.

Now I have to drive my eldest 15mins across town each morning to drop her off at school.

I used to catch the bus to work, now because the Kingsford Smith school is so horrible, I have to run a second car and pay for fuel/parking.

They need to re-open holt or higgins primary and covert KSS into a dedicated high school.

The community never wanted a super school, we made that very clear during the ‘consultation’.

KSS has only been opened a short while and already has the reputation as the worst school in Canberra.

Firstly, I totally agree that the book packs are overpriced and Jacaranda having the monopoly for ACT school packs is a joke. But I don’t want my kids to be those ones who dont have ‘the required books’ and feel that they are different to everyone else. Thats just my opinion and has nothing to do with laziness in shopping around for cheaper alternatives.

All excursions are optional, as are photos and additional lessons. You dont _have_ to pay for these things.

All ACT schools have second hand uniform shops, or look in classifieds for same.

If its a school you have an issue with – join the P&C or relevant committees and have your say where it counts.

No other school gets talked about more than KSS on here, I for one think the way the school is run is a JOKE. I am a parent of 2 KSS students that have been the subject of another post on bullying, First I will say that 90% of teaching staff are great they are easy to discuss things with any class base problems are fixed quickly with little to no fuss, How ever the second those kids walk out of their classrooms is when the problems arise, Talking to anyone in power of that school is like talking to a brick wall and you get the same response or they pass the buck & nothing really gets solved, Teacher & students fear for their safety on a daily basis from unruly students who seem to be the one who rule the school, Police are called to school more often than not(lets say weekly) lock downs happen almost daily, my Children were telling me they have been instructed to hide under there desks until it is safe to come out. And I didn’t even know about lock downs til I was at the school for a parent teacher meeting that’s when the kids informed me that’s what the beeping siren was about, Most Parents are unaware of what is going on at that school & that’s just the way the school likes it. “KSS people in power motto” “we see no evil, Hear no evil, speak no evil”.

As for you book packs, lockers and uniforms I agree totally over priced, I will give you warning that in the first 3 weeks of 2011 first term you can also expect to pay for swimming carnival(compulsory for students 2-9) school photo’s & something else sorry can’t remember oh new uniforms, You could try talking to Principal but it will get you the response sorry but these need to be completed early in year we can assist with costs expect photo’s, swimming carnival and uniforms, geez thanks for your help.

The best thing for that school would be to replace all people in power with people who can deal with a school that has students from pre-school to year 10, who will listen to parents concerns about their childern’s safety on playground, who will dish out tough punishment for unruly students. Someone who has a back bone.

The pre payment is if you wish to have the book pack delivered to the school in the first week of term next year. It is not the only payment option, you may take the form to Jacaranda yourself during the holidays or purchase items individually from other stores. I got 2 out of 3 kids book pack forms home yesterday and for yr 4 and 5 they are $150 each, including a $60 voluntary contribution. A few parents I spoke to yesterday did not realise that fees had been included in the pack price. Are there any little fees for things such as cooking etc in the pack list?

I thought the $80 odd each I paid for my 3 at the start of this year was a little steep, but in saying that, I never got any notes home asking for extra supplies like I did at our previous school. There I paid around $35-$40 per book pack but had to purchase new pencils, glue and scissors etc at the start of semester 2. So I almost spent $80 anyway.

Build a Fritzl dungeon and “Home School” them.

That’s a ridiculous price, even if it is high school. What on earth do they have in that bookpack? Have they realised the SES base of the school population?

Clown Killer said :

These deals seem to be aimed at people sufficiently busy and/or self-important to be happy to pay whatever so long as it’s sorted for them

Chip on shoulder. Much?

Maybe. But you ignore my point that these people are profiteering at the expense of people who choose or feel compelled to play along. It was meant as a sledge against Jacaranda (and the schools who I feel are complicit), not the OP. The OP has a valid gripe. No idea how to address it effectively, just glad we didn’t like the place and chose a different school (fingers crossed).

Being that close to Charnie it probably costs more to maintain than schools located further away from the end of Belco.

It is a Jacaranda pack, and being busy I do order them for the other kids at around $70 each, and I pay for them after Christmas and budget to do so because I expect the expense and I just dont have the time to do the running around myself so it’s convenience – which is what you pay the extra for..

BTW: There aren’t any textbooks in the pack so the price tag is way to high!!

These deals seem to be aimed at people sufficiently busy and/or self-important to be happy to pay whatever so long as it’s sorted for them

Chip on shoulder. Much?

Is the book pack a Jacaranda deal? Their stuff seems to be hideously overpriced – we take the list and get all the same stuff elsewhere for a fraction the $$. These deals seem to be aimed at people sufficiently busy and/or self-important to be happy to pay whatever so long as it’s sorted for them. And the schools seem happy to send just as much business their way as they can (I smell a conspiracy theory coming on …)
Or is the book pack textbooks/etc? Still sounds uppish, and the Jacaranda rant stands.

$30/term for a locker is an outrage. $120/annum … WTF? Belco High is, as you say, $10/annum. We don’t seem to get the bullying or the lockdowns, either.

On the plus side they throw in the perpetual bullying and regular lock downs for free.