Yellow lights the same as red

At the risk of only encouraging the illiteracy, insanity and attention deficit problems of some I’ll let the idiocy of the couple of above posts speak for themselves.

Crazy Chester, is that you?

I look forward to 11 single sentence posts from Farq in reply. As he seems to know the law with respect to offensive behaviour in depth I look forward to his practical application of his experiment.

OA’s are awards where you get nominated by your ‘mates’. They mean nothing to someone who has real medals

Very reactionary stuff vg. And you “don’t tolerate fools” either. Your claim to be “ideally suited” to the police force as far as the Myers
Briggs test is concerned is hard to believe considering that many of your “clients” would be fools and being reactionary, aggressive and dismissive would not suit the modern police force. Like I said before, the Army might be a better fit for you.

Similarly, your comments on Maslow show you do not understand the theory at all. Since you have been working in the police force for 16 years, are not your own boss and feel the need to attack anyone who does not agree with you; it appears you still have some way to go before reaching self-actualisation.

As for your numerous claims of “community awards and letters of appreciation”, I say the same as you and your mate DJ – unsubstantiated assertions.

Anyway, so what. I remember that drug rehabilitation woman being given an Order of Australia and then had it removed after going back on drugs and driving without a licence and/or unregistered on several occasions. The awards you claim are mickey mouse in comparison. I will make a similar unsubstantiated assertion, which at least I and my acquaintances know to be true, even if this forum doesn’t. My father-in-law has a knighthood and my brother-in-law has an OA. I have never heard either of them use their award to justify their bona-fides or their positions in a debate.

I wonder if you can see the hypocrisy in promoting your own claims whilst disputing others?

It’s okay to insult someone about something they can change. Like being a rude cop.

It’s not okay to insult someone because they are old, fat, ugly, gay, black or whatever.

You don’t seem to get this.

You can choose not to be a rude cop, so I think the insult fits.

I can sleep peacefully in that knowledge.

Just incase you did not read my post….

“insults directed at police officers would not constitute an offence, unless others who might hear would be reasonably likely to be provoked to physical retaliation.”

My reading says, an insulted cop just had to wear it (or pull out the pepper spray!).

So the 2006 HC judgement does not over rule the 1990 Crimes ACT? I thought that is what the HC did. As I’ve said, I’m no lawyer, so come on explain…… If you’re so good with management theory how about you show some people skills and pass on some knowledge without trying to throw around school yard insults.

I mention ADD, because you don’t seem to understand the difference between an insult and a joke. Besides, I thought you did not mind being referred to as a barnyard animal?

Try insult me all you like (bet you do that in uniform too), because it’s not going to win you the respect you cops always seem to complain

“Come on, show off your legal eagle skills and explain how it is still an offence. I’m asking nicely.”

Try this one on for size Einstein

Straight from our very own legislation, being the Crimes Act 1900 (and please note the section in capitals)

392 Offensive behaviour
A person shall not in, near, or within the view or hearing of a person in, a public place behave in a riotous, indecent, offensive or INSULTING manner.
Maximum penalty: $1 000.

I mention Ritalin, which has much broader applications than simply ADHD, and you vicariously take offence for all and sundry, yet apparently I can’t at a personal barb. You really need some help in arguing. Its just becoming cruel now

But don’t worry, I’m above need to get revenge by locking you up… 🙂

VG: ah, the old check you’re spelling retort.

Nicely played. Have not seen that since I was on IRC way back.

Also noticed you are back at it, making fun of ADHD disorder people now. Who next diabetes? You may think it’s a joke but other may find that an insult.

Or will you puff up your own ego a bit, then list a bit more of your resume of locking away people who have ‘insulted you’.

I have read your posts, including the childish ‘big man’ talk etc. Maybe in your infinite experience you can tell us all why you can lock someone up for insulting you if:

“…unless others who might hear would be reasonably likely to be provoked to physical retaliation.”

Come on, show off your legal eagle skills and explain how it is still an offence. I’m asking nicely.

RM: You get off on that sort of thing?

Farq

Reading someone’s posts before replying is an essential part of any argument. As you clearly can’t or won’t read mine I can’t and won’t read yours.

You need Ritalin and some English composition lessons.

VG out

wow all this is quite funny to read

Hey farq, let us know when you’re going to call the cops pigs, I’d love to see you get a face full of capsicum spray for wasting their time! Alas, I doubt that would happen.

Then the next challange is 6 in a row then. I’m sure i can manage that.

Look up 6 posts

Lets see if I can go for 4 in a row next time.

As a general recommendation, solely and purely for your own peace of mind as I don’t give a rats about you, you should always seriously consider what you are doing before you hit any acceptance button when dealing with the internet.

I’d hate for you to transfer an extra $100k into my bank account for example, for the likelihood of me returning it under my own goodwill is not very high.

Like I should have said:

Thanks Maelinar.

I’m getting a heater and air con put in. Been having to run in and out to check on them.

Also as soon as I hit submit, I think of something else I should have said.

Whoa ! make that 4 !!!

Although eagerly anticipating Velvet’s response, I would like to award the three-posts-in-a-row award to farq, who has obviously got a lot to say, even though it took him between 3:54 and 3:57 to type up his responses.

“Further to that it was enormously fulfilling to lock up someone for insulting me”

To me that sounds like revenge…

Thats the sort of attitude you guys need to fix.

“I’ve forgotten more about the criminal law and its application than you are likely to know”

Again with the popping up your own self image….

Seriously, is it still an offence?

You need thicker skin if you need to lock someone up for insulting you.

And my wife missing work. Total cost well exceeds the fine.

Which only shows how little you know. Pepper spray for an insult, I doubt it. But don’t be scared.

As well as locking someone up for that episode I’ve also locked them up for GBH assaults, burglaries, robberies, assortment of serious drug offences etc etc, the list goes on.

Yes, it is a fulfilling job, and yes I have since the HC ruling. Further to that it was enormously fulfilling to lock up someone for insulting me, and the person learnt a valuable lesson in life and how it works.

I’ve forgotten more about the criminal law and its application than you are likely to know but now, as my dear old grandpappy used to say, its cruel to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Also, even if I could represent myself, there is the lost oppurtunity cost of having to take the day off work.

It’s just to easy to pay the fine and silently dislike the police.

Locked someone up for calling you a pig? Wow, what a fulfilling job!

Have you locked someone up for it since the high court ruling?

To quote:
“Gummow and Hayne JJ asserted that police officers are, by virtue of their ‘training and temperament’, expected to ‘resist the sting of insults directed to them’. Indeed, their Honours explicitly stated that insults directed at police officers would not constitute an offence, unless others who might hear would be reasonably likely to be provoked to physical retaliation.”

Not sure if that applies in our fair city, or if it’s yet to be tested.

I’d go and test it for you, but I’d propably just get a pepper spray for my troubles.

Now, now petal. You get all ‘tiffy’ when people call other people names but now look at you.

I have locked quite a few people up for calling me a pig. They were all found to have committed an offence. You tell me big boy. If the invective or insult is directed at me personally I can be offended and take action.

The constant high level of assessment that I get from my superiors and peers, as well as that of the general public in unsolicited positive feedback of the non-generic variety, would suggest my career choice is, how would you say it, spot on.

You’re right though, I must be terribly insecure. I mean great family, great job that I’m good at, great house, great friends………yeah, shaking in my terribly insecure little corner.

“You can represent your self, I’d need a lawyer. They cost big $$$. Besides, I’d take it to court and lose (his word against mine).”

Stock standard soft response. How can it just be his word against yours when you said something untoward was said about your now wife. Wouldn’t she be a witness as well. You don’t need a solicitor to go to Court, the magistrates will lead you through it by the hand. But that would have been too hard. Its quite funny that so many people have seemingly been scorned by the law but won’t get off their collective arses to defend themselves against this miscreance. If/when you win you can claim costs.

I’ve lost count of how many parties I’ve been to when, once someone discovers what I do for a job, all they want to do is tell me how they got a ticket once and it was such a terrible thing….but they paid it. There’s one common thread in every ticket I’ve ever been given, I did what was claimed.

Here endeth the lesson

You can represent your self, I’d need a lawyer. They cost big $$$. Besides, I’d take it to court and lose (his word against mine).

On calling cops pigs to their face, I’ll do that just that. I’ll get back to you and tell you how the pepper spray and batons feel right?

The reason people don’t say pig to your face is because they are afraid you will step outside the law and get all medieval on them.

Now the Kirby comment, I’m guessing you have read the Kirby judgment, so in your expert legal opinion, is it legal to call cops pigs? I do see that as on topic (which is a cogent link to my train of thought.

In it is says Police should be above the barbs. You show you are not.

Maybe a careers change is in order?

Now I’d call you hopeless or something, but why bother. I’ll stick with the Insecurity complex.

“he gave me a ticket for having my elbow out the window (when the window was closed).”

And I assume you took it to Court and pleaded not guilty and won? If you did good on you, if you didn’t it was probably too expensive or a similiar bullshit excuse like that.

I took a parking ticket to Court, it cost me nothing

Love the way you make an irrelevant quote of Justice Kirby which has no cogent link to your train of thought.

As I have said, feel free to wander up to a copper and refer to them as a pig. I dare you.

You are hopeless

DJ: Just because someone has criticisms of the police does not makes them a criminal or antiauthoritarian (But you only see in black and white eh?).

Besides speeding tickets (years ago), no run-ins with the police. A couple of those tickets where unfair (and a couple I deserved). One cop had the nerve to make a comment about my then girl-friend (now wife). When I said that was not appropriate (nicely), he gave me a ticket for having my elbow out the window (when the window was closed).

Lesson here is to either give them yes sirs only. If you question their actions they step outside the law and give you another ticket (which would cost more to fight than simply pay). I would not be surprised if nowadays you simply got a dose of pepper spray for your comments.

Like almost everyone, I grew up respecting cops. Then I observed with my own eyes how some of them act and how unfair they can be.

I’ve been a victim of a serious crime and I thought the cops could not be ruder if they tried.

As I’ve said before, cops are important. Allot of them just need an attitude change (or should go join the army).

If police want more respect, they should consider it may be because they don’t respect the people they deal with.

On the ORIGINAL topic. The guy running the orange light should have worn it (fair or unfair). Fighting it in court is a joke, costs you too much money.

DJ: I love you too dude/lady. You sound like a mini VG. You too should get a talk show on an AM radio station. You could call it “Bring back the stockades”.

Farq,

Are the kind of person that has had run-ins with the Police or are you just plain anti authority?

I’ve seen a lot of drunks (male and female) thinking that they are funny address Police as pigs. I thought it was funny when the Police responded. Your words will determine their actions so remember to make sure you lead with your chin and give it your best.

Back to the topic – you didn’t address anything in my posting. Did you agree with me or were you just looking for some witty banter with VG (who has it all over you BTW)?

Pretty sure we are allowed to call Police pigs.

Kirby…. “By training and temperament…” etc. Not a lawyer (thank god), so don’t know how well tested that is yet.

So you don’t like my log on name eh? Come one you can do better than that. “Play the ball not the man”.

I accept your point, I’ve never been a copper (I like helping people, not hurting them), but that still does not make you a good cop.

I stand by my point; you seem like the type of cop who likes to escalate the situation rather than keeping things calm and under control.

That makes you a bad cop to my mind. Maybe once off the net, you’re a different person (god I hope so).

Why thank you, I try my hardest to please

It really says something about someone’s maturity when they use an adaption of profanity as a log on name then resort to petty name calling.

I have said it thrice now, repeat the said phrase in a face to face environment. I’ll vouch you are one of the countless ones who mumble under their breath as a copper walks away but when the said copper turns around and enquires as to what was said the person soils their smalls.

I reserve a number of special words for people like you. I choose not to use them here. BUt feel free to counter an argument as to your policing experience…….or perhaps refer to me as another deeply cutting barnyard animal

BTW: I reserve the word Pig for those coppers who can’t control their temper or are just generally rude.

Nice police get called “Officer”.

“You are a silly person”….

You are a pig.

Still love you dude/lady. With SGS gone, RA needs you for the laughs.

Farq

You are a silly person. You have zero policing experience. Ergo if I have 1 day of experience I am a lot better copper than you. Nothing ‘superior complex’ about that, more like fact. If you have performed surgery once or more you are and always will be a better surgeon than myself.

As I stated, feel free to call a copper a pig next time you speak to them. It is only then you will understand the difference between a joke and an insult. You might join Big Al (RIP) in the ticker stakes

teddy bear you are a ranting loony.

its clear you like to use positional power to try and win arguments.

on ra i think you will find that matters not one bit.

its the argument and how its argued which carrys the day.

“Makes me a hell of a lot better one than you champ”

I knew you had a Superiority attitude!

VG: Well if it’s okay to make jokes about old people, whats wrong with joking around calling a copper a pig?

lol – I would laugh till I cried if he came back and said he had been on the force for 18 or more years.

DJ – your posts are idiotic and unintellectual, and you are a convicted liar.

Just making a pointless attack on your credibility 🙂

“you may have 17 years on the force, but a that does not make you a good copper”

Makes me a hell of a lot better one than you champ. Feel free to use the word ‘pig’ next time you deal face to face with the coppers. I’ll vouch you haven’t the ticker.

Hasdrubahl and Genie hit the whole issue on the head

Farq,

My comments were directed at Teddy Bear. I guess to be quoted out of context is better than not being quoted at all?

Your friend is a fool and deserves everything they get in fines – most likely the Police were on overtime or on their normal shift so it’s no loss there… I hope “your friend” (sounds like it was you BTW) gets caught in an incident involving no other law abiding drivers – they’ll probably be a smart arse then too and with any luck wear the full force of the ACT Court system (a harsh talking to perhaps?).

To the topic at hand… did the original driver do the wrong thing? Yes. Was appropriate action taken? Yes, a caution was issued. Did the offender take it to the next level on their own, with no input from Police? Yes. Is the offender now faced with Court as a direct result of their own actions? Yes. What’s the issue here?

Please feel free to correct anything I have posted or make a pointless attack on my credibility…..

When i learnt to drive i was taught that
Green – prepare to stop
Yellow – Stop
Red – Stop and think about what to have for dinner

And as for someone commenting on P-Platers being maniac drivers… have you payed attention to half the ute drivers out there ?

FFS, this thread started with something as simple as going thru’ an amber light – was it punishable or not.

When the lights turn amber when I approach, I make a split-second decision: if I reckon that slamming on anchors will risk my losing control of the car, I’ll keep on going through the junction. If I can stop safely, then I’ll do that.

If the person mentioned in the CT is too thin-skinned to cop just a warning, then I suggest he reverts to his tricycle and lollies instead.

Simple, really. And we don’t need fekkin’ essays & WW3 about it.

Is it okay to use the word Pig on this site?

Old habits are hard to shake…..

Damn I wish this forum had an edit button. So many typos slipped in.

Now instead of people discussing my points they will resort to the old “You can’t spell” crap. Come on I was educated in the 80s. They taught us more about touchy feeling stuff than having spelling bees.

Yawn… another typical debate on this issue.

Cops avoid the original topic and display their patented one voice view (break the law, no matter how trivial or stupid expect and ‘accept the consequences’. Personally I believe this attitude is a little 18th/19th century.

The stoners on the other side just want to see cops suffer. They make even less sense.

Police take the attitude that we should just suck it up and accept what they see fit to dish out to you (in traffic). Give them any lip; expect to have some extra fines made up on the spot for having a tenacity of questioning their judgment.

The system sucks. Someone close to me was charged with Furious and reckless driving by a cop that had always carried a deep dislike of him for many years (this cop just seems to hate everyone, especially those who don’t kiss his boots, and he could carry a grudge for a long time). The case was very weak and a good lawyer would have had a solid-to-certain chance of beating it. In the end he decided that it was cheaper just to represent him self (and lose). He figured he would just talk on and on and on, asking questions designed to piss the police officer off (mission successful, as this cop quickly starting to lose his temper. He tried to leave during a short pause and my mate delivered that tom cruise line “Sit down, I’m not finished with you yet!”) His second plan was to waste as much of the courts time as possible. System was unfair to him, so why does it deserve his respect. Good on him I say.

After over 4 hours of wasting police and court time. He was handed a $1000 (which I think was the minimum fine and a 3 month suspended license (he kept driving anyway, who does not). Compared to a $5000+ in legal fees this was bargain. I wager than the $1000 fine would not even come close to cost the courts incurred by up a court for more than half the day.

Finally it was so much fun watching him tease the Cop and Prosecutor for “They seem like nice okay blokes….considering their distasteful profession’.

During the sentencing the magistrate said “I assume you’re a law student’, he replied ‘don’t insult me, I could never do such a worthless job (or to that effect).

To all the police reading this, don’t get me wrong. I hate a lot of the shit you do and the attitude you all seem to get issued standard you handgun. But know you deal with nothing but the dreads of society and we all appreciate it, but I swear if one more copper gives me shit for no better reason than driving a old modified car (all legal mods), that’s it they have lost my support completely. I already tell my daughter police are a LAST resort only, and even then it’s better not to get them involved unless I need a statement for insurance when the wife EVENTUALLY hits something in her car.

VG: work on your attitude: Never met you in public (or maybe we have:). In real life you might one of the few decent cops around. But get you online and you seem like one of these cops who like to escalate the situation rather than be calm, nice and try bring things under control, you may have 17 years on the force, but a that does not make you a good copper (no matter how many letters the local schools print out in 5mins from their ‘stock appreciation certificates” (almost all of us have at least one letter of commendation from some community organizations. They are they are handed out so willy-nilly that they are almost worthless, so don’t think that impresses anyone).

You state you don’t ‘suffer fools’. I suspect a better diagnosis is you just like to be rude and feel superior to anyone you feel you can do it too and get away with it (where you a bully at school?).

I have met a handful of cops I trust, but they never seem to have your SUPRIOR attitude when dealing with people. To quote DJ maybe “You should go get some help”. I think you could better develop you communications skills and maybe get some insight (from mental health professional) as to why you have this SUPRIORITY complex (normally that’s a cover for a insecure personality/low self esteem. Also your enthusiasm to point out all your Tertiary qualifications in management (Management is not exactly accrual accounting) reinforces this picture that you are quite insecure.

When a cop is just rude, I write him off as being an unprofessional power mad jerk, at that stage I make the experience as I can. What about if your just TRY being nice, show some respect to the people you are dealing with and maybe you might find people are nicer to cops and more willing to help/even wear the fine. Just be fair, and remember you catch more flies with honey and vinegar.

I swear cops get RUDER and RUDER every day. Even my mum is jack of the attitudes she has seen displayed. You know AFPS PR image in serious decline when a middle class family with no criminal history (all the males in my family, excluding myself are members or ex members of all the forces). Think the last couple batch of coppers are too young, too stupid and too aggressive to be trusted to act with integrity (Mothers always know best).

My theory is anyone who wants to be a cop, should not be trusted with the power we invest in them (at least the traffic cops) it atracks people with SUPRIORITY complexes (all the ones with good hearts leave pretty quickly when they relies how much the job sucks and how much more damage they do to people rather than helping them). I say reintroduce the draft, but only for coppers. Serve 3-5 years then either stick around or move on to a more pleasant job where you don’t have to spend your nights sorting out domestics and violent drunks.

I’ve heard police talk about the break down of values in society, the lack of respect police get nowadays. When I was a kid I was always told: “Respect can only be earned, not demanded”. If the people don’t show you respect, I’d say it’s something only you can guys can fix. Maybe try being less rude and more helpful (less age related jokes would help. If you feel okay making old jokes, what about racial jokes, are they okay? Do you like making fun of aboriginals? What about gay jokes, do you like making those too?).

Anyway, not I’m interested in a flame war (Respond if you like, I’m sure it will be well worded, just off topic!) I just felt I had to impart some advice to VG. I know he/she won’t listen (the cult brainwashing thing again). But maybe, just maybe VG can take something away from this.

BTW: VG you were attacking other people first with rude comments. So as far as I’m concerned you are a valid target for criticism.

Still love you big dude/lady, without you I’d have to start watching A Current Affair to get my laughs from all the crazy authoritarian right wingers (they always give me a good giggle).

Peace!

I can without any hesitation say that I am not VG nor do I need to hide behind his particularly wide shoulders.

From what I read we do share similar points of view, especially that of not tolerating fools. If I could be bothered being a smart arse and looking into the dribble about management and person types I would dignify your posting with a well constructed response. Since I have almost no tertiary qualifications I wont bother except to point out that you still haven’t managed explain why it is so difficult to see that the issuing of a caution with no fine/points lost is valid? If the officer had taken no action you would be up in arms. The caution was appropriate and when challenged appropriate steps were taken to deal with the matter. Is that difficult to comprehend?

The offender could have killed somebody – you, me, a child, anybody! But you would rather label the Police as some kind of power hungry organisation that has nothing better than to pursue petty issues like this one.

You are putting your unsubstantiated CV out there like you think it validates you. It doesn’t. Go get some help.

Big Al is that you risen from the grave?

You love to run with a little amateur management theory don’t you. You also love to get confused with initials.

A person can’t be high up in Maslow’s hierachy. Needs are what forms part of the hierachical structure. At the top are self-actualisation needs, and the bottom physiological needs such as food, water etc.

Nobody questions my background because I have been naging around here for a couple of years and it should be more than obvious what I do. Lets just say I have some significant tertiary qualifications in the field of management which are applied practically on a daily basis.

As for Myers Briggs, well funnily enough I did one about 8 months ago and it found that I ws ideally suited to the employ on which I am currently engaged, in fact outstandingly so. I could also perhaps show you some of the community awards and letters of appreciation that I have received that may allay these ill-informed fears you have.

One thing I am quite well known for is that I don’t suffer fools gladly. That’s may have what manifested itself here.

If you wish to debate me please do it on the points I raise, not on what you confuse other people saying in my apparent stead because you don’t read who wrote it

vg

That comment was meant for dj, not vg because he suggested that I had wasted an officers time on the amber light issue and that if he had his way he “would issue a caution for public mischief”. I’m sorry you didn’t make the connection.

And I agree with VYBerlina… and thought I had made that issue clear in my previous posts.

I also find it useful to have a background on the people I debate with. Of course they could be a 13 year old pimply youth but presumably one can judge their bona-fides from their posts. I notice nobody questioned your stated background as your on-line persona seems to fit with what you claim.

I am interested in organisational design issues and how one can improve governments and businesses. This attracts criticism but I am high enough up the Maslow heirachy not to care. For instance, I suspect that if we were to run a Myers Briggs on you it would reveal that your talents would better suit an organisation not directly involved with the public, perhaps the Army or something like that.

We could do with some good people there.

Teddy

I haven’t commented on this thread for 3 days. Why are you directing points like this:
“vg – contact was made with the police officer on another matter to do with a draft article on the increase in unregistered vehicles on the road and whether the high registration costs (which exceed those in NSW) are contributing to that.”

When I haven’t discussed it. Maybe you should drop another name of someone I know infintitely better than you to try and impress

So true Seepi, P platers these days are shocking and their is bugger all to stop them. Most are smart enought to know where the speed cameras are and contrary to popular beleif most are quite visable before you get into their target range so can be avoided. A few more visible cop cars on the roads wouldn’t go astray.

More police would fix so many of these problems.

Police could actually attend to non urgent issues, and spend some time dealing with the sane 98% of us.

And there would be some patrolling the roads – I’ve decided that many P platers are such shocking speeders/weavers/phone users/refuse to merge etc, becuase they’ve never seen a police car on the roads, adn assume they can do whatever they like.

Of course we want our police officers to be happy and polite members of our community. But bear in mind that they spend 98% of their time dealing with that 2% of our society who just don’t get it.

I’ll admit that I disagree with vg on a range of issues, but when making our helpful comments it’s worth remembering what these poor bastards have to go through each day.

vg – contact was made with the police officer on another matter to do with a draft article on the increase in unregistered vehicles on the road and whether the high registration costs (which exceed those in NSW) are contributing to that.

That contact was made some months ago but the response covers a wide range of areas which includes the ability of the police to vary or waive TFI’s. The officer’s constructive and helpful letter would make an excellent example of how police should deal with the public.

As for the issue of the caution, my understanding was that it was someone in headquarters who changed the offense, not the duty policeman. Anyway, I assume I am allowed to have my views on what constitutes “petty” just as you do.

As for Special G’s comments, of course I could be anybody, just as he/she could. However, my comments was made in relation to the suggestion that because one is over 50 doesn’t mean that one is unintelligent, senile, has no experience to contribute, does not have a background in building improved models for administration and can be dismissed out of hand as vg tried to do.

Maelinar

A similar experience happened to an employee of mine some years ago. They were issued with a speeding ticket for an offence on Macarthur Avenue – only problem was that heading west towards Belconnen Way that road is actually Fairfax Street. They elected to challenge the offence in court and won. The Magistrate said that it was reasonable to conclude that if a basic aspect of the alleged offence – like the street that it supposedly occurred on – could be shown to be incorrect then how could any of the other evidence presented, such as the speed reading etc, be treated with any credibility.

Not sure if that’s an indictment of our judicial system or the police really.

Some people aren’t quite getting it here me thinks. Its simple.

Police see offence.
Police issue:
1 – ticket
2 – caution or,
3 – go to court.

A caution is simply the person admitting to the offence and then accepting that they are not fined.

Dispute ticket or caution and the discretion of the police is disputed therefore take option 3 – go to court.

Obviously the motorist was then fined by the court.

For those that are wondering yellow light and red light are both $243 and 3 points.

Teddy Bear – whats with the name dropping, this does not add value to your posts. Your quote from Sgt Barber simply states that instead of $200+ dollars the Police cannot fine you $400 or $80. This is a matter for the courts.

As for your resume that does not prove anything either. You could be a 13 year old pimply faced schoolkid for all we know.

Check back on the Clea Rose threads while you are at it before you throw allegations around.

I’ll wade into this debate.

I was recently issued a speeding ticket, with the incorrect street identified on the ticket.

I sent an appropriate letter that indicated that my vehicle hadn’t been going that speed along that road (thereby the traffic infringement was incorrect), and awaited my response.

I believe that the police had several options at that stage, primarily;

1. take a rap personally and chalk it up to experience, and think a little bit more when issuing tickets in the future, or
2. issue a new ticket with the correct details on it.

No need to guess which number they picked. Whilst it is human to stuff up on occasions, it would outwardly appear that the attitude is to cover any omissions up with beauracracy. Factually right, yes, but is that really the right thing to do ?

“Why is this person seemingly automatically awarded an additional penalty for the temerity of questioning this authority?”

Sounds reasonable in a USER PAYS system – They tried to use it, so that have to pay.

Comment by James-T-Kirk — 4 April, 2007 @ 10:24 am

James, who said the penalty was automaticaly upgraded? He appealed and it was reviewed. The review could have went in his favour, the fine could have stayed or as is the case it was upgraded. Nothing automatic. If you choose to appeal something then you can loose, this guys lost.

Teddy Bear,

1. Impressive resume, you’ve got the job.

TB,

You are wrong. If discretion is used and a caution issued it isn’t petty to address the matter in Court it is NORMAL. For an educated person why is this so hard to grasp? What makes it petty? Your opinion based on no actual Policing experience?

Police: Here is a caution for putting the rest of the community at risk with your poor display of driving.

Offender: Screw you for your polite and considerate approach.

Police: Um, are you serious?

Offender: Yes.

Police: See you in Court.

GET OVER THE FACT THAT DISCRETION WAS USED BY POLICE AND THEN ABUSED BY THE OFFENDER…..

PS. Why waste the time and energy of a Police Officer (named above). I’d issue a caution for the offence of Public Mischief if I didn’t think you would complain…..

Not sure what your comment re narrow black and white tunnels was meant to mean, ingeegoodbee.

However if you are referring to my comments on the attitude of vg in his posts then I agree that all cops have a different view.

In the case of vg, however, it is important that a cop with his apparent committment, experience, passion for the force, etc, acts as a good role model and mentor for the younger cops coming up through the ranks.

I set up and ran a graduate clerk program in one of the Commonwealth mega-Departments some years ago. We spent a lot of time and money attracting the best of the best candidates.

Having selected them we then gave them preferential training within the Department which involved a lot of travel, exposure to the decision makers in government and industry and a guaranteed promotion at the end of the course. This caused some resentment by those who were employed under the normal system.

These young graduates (probably like my friend who went through the police academy) soaked in information like a sponge and modelled themselves on senior officers who acted as mentors.

Unfortunately a number of the senior officers were not really suitable as they had closed minds and no feel for lateral thinking or innovation. “This is the way we do things around here and you better fit in” type of mentality.

As a result of this I had to spend much of my time counselling these graduates and by the end of the program 50% of them had enough of fitting in with the ridgid culture and up and left.

That is why people like vg are important as long as the kind of exposure they have to the idiots, the dangerous, the intellectually handicapped and the just plain dumb, doesn’t result in them becoming frustrated and lowering their own standards.

In the case of the orange light episode I feel that the officer who altered the penalty lowered himself to that of the miscreant. My view is that it would have had more psychological impact if the offender was told that it was an offense to run the orange and that if he wanted to take the issue further then the offense would be increased to that which would normally have been given.

Sergeant Barber of Traffic Representations informs me that there is “no discretion to alter penalties which have been legislated by the ACT Government” but they “have the authority to grant extra time to pay the penalties”.

I feel that by changing the warning to an offense, the police department simply showed its petty side when it could have shown it was fair-minded, even to idiots. That is an opportunity lost.

Thanks for the info maelinar. I presume there is other information that defines crazychester as female.

I do most of my work on a computer via the web but haven’t pressed the wrong button transferring huge sums out as yet. I don’t mind huge sums coming in however.

A pity that you “don’t care a rats”. Had to cancel the $100k I was sending to your bank account.

wow. i just noticed a new ad at the b ottom, for personality100.com

Dan – you should advertise on this site, “services for free”

unfortunately, with my brakes, I’d only trust a mechanic..

I kind of meant new signs. Ones that read “Staying in the right lane merely confirms to everybody else on the road that you are a shiit driver with no skills whatsoever”, or words to that effect.

VG –

#1 – Couldn’t afford to go to court, loss of income was greater than the fine.

#2 – Only happened on Friday to my brother in law.. He now has to go to court to fight his charges – He also spent several hours locked up before the Police even told him why he was arrested.

Like i said – im sure the Police do a wonderful job, but when it comes to my experiences – I’m baffled.

Simple reminders such as don’t run orange lights, keep left wherever possible

Wouldn’t work. The enormous KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING signs on Hindmarsh Drive and Parkes way are ignored with gay abandon – seemingly by the majority of Canberra drivers. This is why you end up with 3 lanes of traffic travelling at 65-70km/h up the hill on Hindmarsh Dr at 5PM every day.

I meant it in the way that there is braking, and then there is slamming the brakes on to stop. That screech the tires etc. Instead of the latter – i’ll just go through because by the time i’d decided to stop and brake i’d end up in the middle. I think I probably worded it wrong.

Hence the definition and interpretation of ‘stopping safely’. Sounds like a non-issue and people jumped the gun a bit to accuse you of having an unroadworthy sh!tbox.

teddy bear, crazychester is a user who popped up a short while ago. Some references to her as CC also came up, especially when none of us could be bothered typing the other 10 letters of her username.

As a general recommendation, solely and purely for your own peace of mind as I don’t give a rats about you, you should always seriously consider what you are doing before you hit any acceptance button when dealing with the internet.

I’d hate for you to transfer an extra $100k into my bank account for example, for the likelihood of me returning it under my own goodwill is not very high.

Schmerica – if you want I can have a look – probably just need a flush and then a bleed.

Woudl be peace of mind for everyone on RiotACT – oh and for anyone else asking – I have about 15 years mechanical experience – short of full engine rebuilds I can do pretty much anything to fix the mechanical/electrical side of cars.

Sorry bonfire and Thumper. I realised that I had not used paras as soon as I hit the send key.

I put it down to the late hour. As you can see it was sent at 12.36am and just after I had done some in depth research into the implications for those companies involved in the uranium exploration and development industry resulting from Howard’s comments re mining at Olympic Dam, the Queensland’s change of heart re uranium mining and the flooding of ERA’s operation in the NT.

This has resulted in a surge of interest in uranium companies, particularly after the flooding of the Canadian operations.

This all impacts on my business as a financial analyst and the portfolios of my clients and I am afraid the use of paras in my post on the amber light issue didn’t get my complete attention. By the way, who is the “she” that you are talking about that uses paras?

And each time – they say they’re fine.

I didn’t mean it in the way of ‘I dont have brakes and I have shoddy tires… Hide your children or they’ll become my lastest hood orniment’

I meant it in the way that there is braking, and then there is slamming the brakes on to stop. That screech the tires etc. Instead of the latter – i’ll just go through because by the time i’d decided to stop and brake i’d end up in the middle. I think I probably worded it wrong.

brakes should be looked at by a professional on an annual basis.

I can’t afford to pay someone a couple of hundred dollars to just look at my brakes. Probably just to tell me there is nothing wrong with them.

Besides, they work just fine, never had an accident or been ‘caught’ by a red light camera. When I desperately need to stop, ie. If were about to hit some random kid standing on the road for some reason – I’d stop. It may be HARD but its not IMPOSSIBLE.

My point is that instead of making that split second decision to stop, I’ll just go through, because if I did stop – I’d end up in the middle of the intersection.

Oh, and I live right across from both a High School and a Primary School, and I love to speed up and run children over. Thats just the type of person I am.

“The brakes on my car have something wrong with them I think, its hard to stop really suddenly. Sometimes I have to make it through a yellow light or i’ll be stopped in the middle of the intersection.”

Seems like the current random inspection system is not working if somebody can be driving around in a car that they know to be faulty.

Please do not drive around my house, or my kids school – you might accidently kill a kid because of your faulty brakes.

“Why is this person seemingly automatically awarded an additional penalty for the temerity of questioning this authority?”

Sounds reasonable in a USER PAYS system – They tried to use it, so that have to pay.

fercrissake teddy bear – USE PARAGRAPHS.

you are coming across as a ranting loon crazychester style.

dont they have an enter key at the old peoples home ?

at least she used paras.

Avoiding the other obvious theme in this thread, it seems that many canberrans think as I do, that the driving skills of our fellow residents are sadly lacking.

There are many elements I could start on; merging, tailgating, double parking, hogging the right lane while doing 40km/h, boxing in traffic, talking on mobiles, etc.

Running an orange light is an offence, and I agree that firstly, getting off with a caution was a good point at which to drop the issue, and secondly, upon review the extent of the law was tested and the law states that running an orange light is an offence – hence the upgraded punishment.

I bet that while the copper was giving the ticket there were several other offenders doing the exact same thing though – bringing me to my take on the situation.

Red Light cameras obviously don’t have enough deterrant factor, so why don’t they put up a few ‘good behaviour on the road’ signs ?

Simple reminders such as don’t run orange lights, keep left wherever possible, talking on your mobile is liek illegahl, etc would encapsulate the majority of law abiding Canberrans.

As far as I can see, there is no real incentive to be a nice driver in Canberra, you’ll get cut off, boxed in, and only get angry at the world. Displaying good driving skills only seems to work when there are other consciencous drivers about.

JC, the timed ones work by showing the distance travelled between the two photos, thereby calculating speed.

One other thing, two flashes doesn’t automatically mean two photos (depends on camera setup), could be that first flash is to calculate exposure.

Teddy, not every cop sees the world in a narrow little black and white tunnel.

schmerica, why are you driving an unroadworthy car around? If my brakes weren’t functioning properly I would be getting it seen to ASAP, rather than admitting in public you can’t stop properly in an emergency – hope no kids run out in front of you.

With the read lights you are also prohibited from entering the intersection, even under a green if you cannot make it all the way through. A yellow as pointed out is stop if you can safely do so. If you run a yellow then its really no different to running a red. With the red light camera’s they wouldn’t work on a yellow, as there are times where it is ok to go through a yellow, ie you cannot stop. In Canberra some of the red light camera’s work on a timmer, where you see two flashes just after the phase turns red. Others have two sensors in the road. I understand to be booked by a red light camera your car must trip both sensors in the road, proving you hadn’t actually stopped. How it works with the timed ones who knows?

Great to see that vg has toned down his comments instead of accusing people of ignorant remarks, abject piffle, johny come lately, next silly point, utter bullshit and the like. Yet he says he and his troops are very approachable. He even offers to explain things slowly so that those in their 50’s will understand. It is this kind of attitude that drives a wedge between the community and the police and a copper of 17 years experience should realise that. The police have a tough enough job to do as it is without losing the respect and assistance of the community. vg says that the police are part of the community, but efforts have been taken recently in Canberra and particularly in Tuggeranong, to put more police on the street to meet the community. The Chief Police Officer, Audrey Fagan, made quite a play of that in the media at the time so obviously there is some divide to causing concern. vg’s ageist comment would be of particular concern to many Canberrans, especially with an aging population. I might be mid-50 but I am still a sports-extreme participant who goes avalanche skiing in France and the USA, climbing, caving, white water kayaking, windsurfing, etc. I also have tertiary qualifications in economics, politics, business management and the law, and have worked with various Commonwealth Ministers writing speeches, cabinet submissions, briefs and the like. I have worked with aid agencies like ADAB, the Australian Trade Commission and with APEC Ministers and my various jobs involved discussions with senior politicians, captains of industry, heads of unions and the like. When one is dismissive of a person they don’t know on the basis of their age, then one puts themselves on a very slippery slope. And we now have the Prime Minister suggesting we should all work into our seventies. I rest my case.

The brakes on my car have something wrong with them I think, its hard to stop really suddenly. Sometimes I have to make it through a yellow light or i’ll be stopped in the middle of the intersection.

I saw someone get pulled over a few weeks ago for speeding up to make it through a yellow light.

I’ve never had a problem with the Police. If anything happens when they are around – I know I can ask them for help. I only typically see them when i’m out in Civic on a Saturday night though.

Cranky

Red lights are by and large respected at a dozen or so intersections across Canberra. Write a letter to MLAs Simon or John and they will tell you there is no problem because the red light cameras are at the 12 or so intersections. Besides, the cops are too busy attending to the current priority. Red light running may well be a priority some time into the future.

Methinks its the law of self preservation that applies at the rest of the traffic light controlled intersections.

Funnily, while redlight running annoys me a bit, tailgating is worse/more dangerous (I ride a motorbike).

My understanding of the rule is – if you’re capable of stopping safely before the intersection when the light turns orange, you’re required to do so, *not* hit the gas pedal harder to race through.

The red light cameras seem to take an (automated) shot of the intersection about 1/2 a second after the light has turned red.

What sort of moron disputes a caution? This person should have been thanksful not to have gotten a ticket!

I find it interesting that the people who complain about our police are generally the same ones who show them little respect. Perhaps the reason that the police used to have a much more visible presence in our community has to do with the fact that so many of them are now required to complete copious amounts of paperwork to cover themselves in our litigious society?

Now I’ve come to some resolution regarding this thread, can I ask what can/is being done re the apparent wholesale disregard for orange/red lights in this town?

Every set of lights I encounter on my regular travels is abused by one or two types.
1) Those entering fom a side road who have been given a very short green light because the main road is so busy and gets a disproportionate green period, &
2) Those totally ignorant drivers who have decided that the small time delays built into the light sequence are for their benefit, and come hell or high water, they will take advantage of it.

Do the Police have any interest in this problem? Is it a problem? Are we so used to cars cruising through red lights that we don’t move until this traffic stops? Are we displaying such a remarkable degree of self preservation that this phenomenum is not showing up in accident statistics?

Hope this is still within the parameters of this thread.

Back to the red light – I always thought that if you were in the intersection during an orange light, it was ‘legal’ as long as it didn’t turn to red while your car is in the intersection. Is that not right?

Eg – you might have driven across the line just before it turns orange, or just after, so as not to screech to a stop.

VG,

Fair comment!

“Naturally my mother had to fork out the fine”. No she didn’t. You had witnesses, why didn’t you plead not guilty? The system is there for that exact thing

“2nd confusion about the AFP – Sober guy gets jumped by 6 drunk guys while walking to his car and because he pulls something out of his car to defend himself – HE gets arrested and the others are let free.” If it was deemed self defence then he wouldn’t have been arrested, but I’m guessing this wasn’t the full story, or indeed a real one at all. Rather one that has gone through the Chinese whispers production line.

Cranky you have no idea. The guy got a caution, which essentially means nothing. He chose to dispute it or have it reviewed. Other eyes looked upon it and decided it did in fact warrant further action, or indeed arbitration from a 3rd party (the Courts). The system works both ways, not all just in favour of the one who complains

Have to admit – the Policing in the ACT confuses me. Got booked speeding supposedly doing 25k’s over the speed limit, when we had only just turned onto the street we were booked on. The police pulled us over instead of the ACTUAL offender. He was alone and there was 2 of us in the car. Naturally my mother had to fork out the fine.

2nd confusion about the AFP – Sober guy gets jumped by 6 drunk guys while walking to his car and because he pulls something out of his car to defend himself – HE gets arrested and the others are let free.

Cant say i have had or heard of any good experiences with Police lately. And im actually good friends with a few. I think the Police do a great job – but when you need them, they’re pretty hard to find, or very unwilling to be on your side. (in my experiences)

DJ,

Total cleanskin – Last ticket was early 60’s.

Why does it display an enormous degree of immaturity to dispute a warning? I get the impression it certainly did not go to court – some faceless beaurocrat decided to increase the penalty with the rider that the motorist could take it to court at some fairly heavy financial impost.

Your last paragraph is telling – customer service is of no priority, argue the toss and we will come down on you like a ton of bricks. Simply arogant bullying!

Cranky,

I bet you’ve had your share of tickets in the past and that has you all wound up? Not a taxi driver are you?

From VG who answered your questions some time ago above….

“If soemone disputes the issuing of a TIN (Traffic Infringement Notice) or warning (and it shows an enormous degree of immaturity to dispute a warning) it is stock standard practice for it to go to Court so the Court can arbitrate on it. This is not something new.”

Did he ask for a review or was he disputing it?

Giving a caution has nothing to do with good customer service. Taking appropriate action is and when a caution is not accepted by the offender this is the NORMAL outcome.

Can see your point here as well. My view is that the character issuing the caution perhaps wanted to reduce his workload or to give “good customer service”. When our plod contributors come in from the beat (they do it in pairs) I am sure they will put us straight on things. After all, we are but citizens.

Point well taken.

Who is the person conducting the review? Can we be assured that the reason for increasing the penalty was that the original Police caution was inappropriate (with the police officer counselled and knuckles rapped), or as a device to reduce further requests for review.

I’m sorry, I have little respect for these decisions. They appear to have more to do with reducing querying of decisions than justice.

the motorist asked for a review of the penalty. He got what he asked for, and the person conducting the review substituted the caution decision with a decision to issue a fine. Doesn’t happen often, but I am on plods’ side this time.

Perhaps we are talking at cross purposes.

This motorist was issued with a caution. I assume the Police decided this was the appropriate official reaction to the event.

My point is that the motorist questioned this decision, either rightly or otherwise, and received a greater penalty simply for the temerity of seeking a review of the penalty.

Officious bullying!

ever been taking the family to school and had to stop at a green light to allow some fool to get through? They all say “I was only trying to get through the on the yellow”. They should all be locked up for attempted murder in my view.

I question why there is an automatic reaction of stupidity levelled at a member of the public querying a decision by the all omnipitent traffic authorities.

Why is this person seemingly automatically awarded an additional penalty for the temerity of questioning this authority?

This is arogance, this is bullying, to stop others from also querying officious decisions!

I laughed my head off at the goose who disputed the caution. Surely there is a prescribed penalty for stupidity that this guy should have attracted?

On NSW Police Corruption, the only reason the Royal Commission happened is because the independants and opposition dragged them there. The government didn’t want it because they knew they couldn’t control it and didn’t know what it would turn up. I recall a very late and emotional debate on this.

Heard a rumour the other day that an ageing gentleman reporting a young person in dire trouble ended up being charged with something arising from him ending up abusing the plods over their attitudes. Might be a rumour, might not but one hears about this stuff too often for some of it not to be true.

Well vg, that was a much more reasonable response. I have a number of copper friends who go back further than you. One of them attended the same huff and puff classes with me when we were having our children. He was highly intelligent, had a university degree, personable and honest and left the force because of elements of corruption he came up against.

Even back then in the 80’s there was a tendency for things to be hidden along the lines of the Clea Rose affair. Who knows what is going on when details are witheld by the police? No wonder there is a lack of trust.

Anyway, it would appear from your original posts that you condemned yourself with your own words. I thought we were talking about how there would be more respect and co-operation with our police if they were less reactionary, as evidenced by the orange light affair. You will always get “jerks” like the one reported, but there is no need to become one oneself. I wonder how many of the readers would have any faith in you reacting in a measured way to a dispute about an infringement notice after reading your first posts.

I meet Audrey Fagan from time to time at a mutual friend’s place in Deakin. I will be interested to hear her take on this matter.

I was just trying to save space

The Internet is running out of space in the ACT.

The Government have imposed space restrictions.

Paragraph returns are only allowed between 7 and 10pm, on the odds and evens system.

Anyhoo – back on topic.

The ‘tard who disputed a warning deserves a bigger penalty than someone who actually went through a red light.

I refered in a previous post to what I considered an arogant statement by an AFP member.

The above thread continues the arogance. Why should the penalty/punishment/if any depend on how well the member of the public, very bluntly, kissed the cops arse?

Police are given an inordinate amount of power over civilians, and the penalty should not reflect the individuals degree of kowtowing to this power.

Teddy Bear has described how it used to be. Why has the training changed from assisting members of the public, to treating them as suitable subjects for bullying, for that is what this is.

I agree Andy and I was speaking of times well after the 40’s. However it wasn’t me that said “police have always walked around in pairs”.

This only started to happen when Canberra started to get a violent side to it and it then it became a necessity.

Am now using paras for you Thumper. I was just trying to save space. By the way, I have put a submission to Commissioner Gregor Manton supporting the volunteer firefighters efforts to remove the ESA from the Department of Justice and Community Safety after discussions with people like Val Jeffery, Pat Barlin, Tony Bartlett, etc. As an Emergency Services volunteer yourself, I’m not sure where you stand on this issue.

Teddy

I’ll explain this to you slowly given your apparent age. The Johnny come lately refers to this forum but if you want to open the door of who knows who in policing in Canberra I’ll slam it right back in your face. I have been a copper here for 17 years. My brother for the same amount of time, and his wife for 7. My father was a copper here for 27 years, joining in 1962. His brother, by the time he retired, was a copper for 30 years in the AFP/ACT Police. His son, my cousin, has been a copper here for 8 years. I’m guessing we’re closing on a total of 100 years of policing experience in the ACT here. I have put up, so its time for you to shut up.

My father never walked the beat alone in Canberra. Policing has changed markedly since your time in the 40s. For starters Canberra is 10 times the size. Secondly there wasn’t a chance of Constable Plod circa 1947 bumping into an ice freak who was also full of piss and bad manners. Attitudes to law and law enforcement officers differed dramatically. With members of my family constantly involved in law enforcement here in Canberra since 1962 lets just say I have a better than average grasp of how things have changed in that regard.

None of what you state goes anywhere near what a normal person would describe as ‘corruption’. They are incidents involving what could broadly be stated as customer service and civility issues, not anywhere near what things such as the Wood Royal Commission would define as corruption.

I have never, EVER stated that those things don’t occur. They do get complained about, as they are made against staff from Centrelink, Corrections etc etc. What I have stated is that there is no contemporary evidence of what would be described as corruption. I know that because of what I do. Should those issues be discovered I will stand corrected, but trust me, they ain’t around now.

I’ll say this again for you. I have never stated that issues such as you state do not ‘allegedly’ occur. That is an amateur attempt at putting words in my mouth.

That brings us to another reason why coppers walk around in pairs. Corroboration. No one believes the word of an individual copper any more and people are far more likely to make BS allegations at Police when only one member alone can defend it. And as for walking around, well I’ve done it in the City CBD for 5 years and spoke to people of all ages and all walks of life on a daily basis. Hell I even got recognised by community groups for doing it, but what would I know.

I think, from your perspective, the game just well and truly ended.

And JB, as for this:

“And oddly enough, before they started looking for corruption they never found it either”

Deary me. Do you think the Wood Royal Commission and the establishment of the PIC just came about because the idea fell out of someone’s arse? The Wood Commission was established because of pre-existing evidence and allegations of endemic corruption. They had eveidence of it, they established a RC and looked, and they found more. No government is going to waste time on any sort of enquiry into anything when there is no evidence of any kind that suggests they need to enquire. Nothing the AFP or, in particular, ACT Policing has done has given a government the notion to do so.

and once again, personal comment only

teddybear, yea, but in the 40s, there were many less people, and it was much easier for cops to walk the beat, and be friends.

It’s what happens when a city grows.. i’d reckon it’s hard to maintain that sort of level of service.
Especialyl cause people woudl then complain there are too many police..

I hit a sore point with vg it seems. As for “Johnny come lately”, I suspect I was in Canberra before him since I was born here in the 1940’s. I lived next door to, and was great friends with, Inspector Colin Groves who headed up Canberra policing in the past. For quite some time in Canberra the local cops walked their beat alone and were friends (not just friendly) with the locals and the suburban shopkeepers. So, vg, you can put up or shut up. As for police corruption and police bullying, I have seen both over the years. I have also seen them fabricate their stories, lie, and swear at citizens in the most profane manner. Some examples I have even put to the police internal affairs squad who were pretty much useless as they were investigating their own. The most we got out of the Police Department was an apology, which at least means that they accepted some responsibility for actions that vg suggests do not happen. I have a close friend whose daughter was picked up by the police, sworn at, pushed around and then released because it was a mistaken identity. I have friends whose daughters were propositioned by traffic cops in police cars when they were pulled over for minor speeding offences. There are many stories like these and they probably involve only a small proportion of the police. But for vg to suggest that such things do not happen at all reveals to me that he/she is either naive or as dismissive and arrogant and officious as those I complain about.

Funny VG, just in NSW and Victoria their anti corruption bodies hold public hearings and release the findings of those hearings.

And oddly enough, before they started looking for corruption they never found it either.

JB you really need to check your facts. The little thing he went to called the Supreme Court was about as public a hearing as they get. The guy went to prison. Please tell me what else you’d like. A document served to you personally?

There are no public hearings into ‘corruption’ because there is no need. I’d wager that the oversight and scrutiny I have in my job is ten-fold that of the average person.

But then again the sky may be falling.

Next stupid point?

No public hearings, no published reports of investigations, no trust.

i still reckon eastman is a patsy.

Caught by a different system? You have no idea of what you’re talking about. He didn’t get transferred to Victoria. He moved to the the AFP Office in Melbourne. He was caught by the same internal investigative system that is still in place today.

Next silly point?

No anti-corruption body, no proven cases of corruption, therefore no corruption!

Of course the AFP officer who tranferred to Victoria and shortly after got busted was simply an aberration and the fact he got caught by a different system was just unlucky!

If there was a law against stupidity the ACT Prison would have to relocate to something far, far larger

Corruption? Please point out your examples in the ACT. What utter bullshit.

Police have always walked around in pairs. I have lived in Canberra all my life bar 4 years. I have worked in law enforcment here for 17. Trend for Police to be divorced from the community my big, hairy bum! Police ARE part of the community.

Incidentally, for those who tend to ignore the obvious, running an orange light has always been am offence. If you can slow down and stop you should. An orange light is not a signla to put the foot down and hurry through.

If soemone disputes the issuing of a TIN (Traffic Infringement Notice) or warning (and it shows an enormous degree of immaturity to dispute a warning) it is stock standard practice for it to go to Court so the Court can arbitrate on it. This is not something new.

All he had to do was cop it on the chin like any ‘normal’ adult would. Its hardly the fault of the Police that he ended up in theis situation of his own making.

Feel free to approach me any time you see me on the street. Myself and my troops are always approachable and willing to help.

Having said that it is not the job of Police to be everyone’s friend. Friendly, yes, but if we were everyone’s mate no-one would get arrested.

But once again we see another ignorant remark regarding Police from a johnny come lately. And more abject piffle

On a more serious note, this kind of knee-jerk reaction to a jerk does nothing towards making the community more friendly towards its police force. I can still remember the days when one looked upon police as friends, used them as role models for ones children and suggested that, if in trouble, they seek help from the cop on the beat. Apart from the difficulty of finding one on the street (and they always go in pairs now anyway), the corruption, the arrogance and the officiousness of many of today’s cops makes them only approachable as a last resort. Not all are like this of course, but the trend for police to be divorced from the community is accelorating.

chuggers and nimby’s – remove these two sub-species and Canberra will be a better place!

1. Lingering with intent (get all those folks waiting for non-existent Action busses)

2. Unlawful entry to a public place (Get the millions that go to the NGA, AWM, APH, etc)

3. Conduct predjudicial to the maintenance of the dictatorial Government. (saying anything mildly disparaging about Chairman Stanhope and the Peoples Republic of Canberra)

4. Unlawful abuse of a motor vehicle (for bagging action busses when they are late or don’t arrive at all)

5. Aiding and abetting a criminal before the fact (charge all those parents that spawn junior crims or maybe just charge any single mother living in Charnwood that is recieving PPS)

6. Unlawfully gaining an education (for anyone caught reading a book after the Government has gone to all the trouble of shutting Schools and Libraries)

7. Gross stupidity in a public (that will be a nice little earner, especially in the Canberra yacht club and with drain surfers and the numerous other contestants for the Darwin Awards we see on these pages)

Any more?

This site would get shut down due to all contributors going broke very quickly.