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Yellow lights the same as red

By kenk 3 April 2007 139

An article by Grahame Downie in the CT yesterday reported, or seemed to, a case where someone had been fined for going through a yellow light at an intersection. In fact, initially, he was only issued with a warning but he decided to appeal. so they upgraded a warning to an offense and a fine. Serves him right!

He should be happy – they could have put him away for five years while they thought about it and then offered to let him out if he pleaded guilty – he must be guilty of something…

Anyway, leaving aside the question of whether it is an offense to challenge our law-givers, I see this as a means of balancing the ACT Budget – if going through a yellow light is worth a fine of $80, and if we are installing more light cameras, then things are looking up for ACT Revenue.

So I suggest some more offenses – looking funny at a member of the police or an ACT Public Servant; making derogatory remarks about legislators and ACT Public Servants having free parking; saying bad things about one Grassby or the Dragway or school- or library-closure

What’s Your opinion?


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Yellow lights the same as red
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teddy bear 10:22 am 12 Apr 07

I take your point RM and agree with comment on how this thread has gone on and on. Obviously it has struck a chord. Sorry about the “trumpet blowing”, but it all relates directly to the particular comments (and trumpet blowing) brought up by vg.

I have found Jack Waterford to be pretty fair minded about the ACT police in general. He has printed numerous articles in support, but he does not like some police actions being kept secret from the community. The same goes for the Government’s attempts to avoid freedom of information scrutiny.

I know he is quite friendly with many cops dating back to his student activism days when he challenged many of the parking tickets he received. I am sure he would have accepted an amber light caution with alacrity but would have challenged it if it had gone to court.

As you are probably aware, he recently received an OA (which vg states only results from being “nominated by mates” and is not a “real medal”). I think this shows the general standing he has in the community, even amongst cops.

Thumper 10:11 pm 11 Apr 07

This is pure gold. A cop with yonks experience against a tosser with none.

And farq, I’m afraid that you are a the tosser.

Pity that hey?

And no point attacking me cause I really couldn’t give a toss.

Cheers

RM 9:55 pm 11 Apr 07

teddy bear, from what I’ve read by Jack Waterford, it sounds like he gets upset when the cops don’t give him what he wants! Besides, his grievance is usually with the executive and the media unit, not the guys driving around. This is evident if you read his last few full page articles in the CT.
I don’t disagree entirely with what your saying, but perusing the entries you’ve made here it seems to be filled with “I’ve done this, I’ve done that.” It’s getting a bit over the top – your trumpet is looking rusty!

Don’t you love how a post about someone getting a ticket for running a yellow light has led to this? I vote the website is renamed “the-tangentact”.

teddy bear 8:25 pm 11 Apr 07

No farq – my reactionary comment was directed at vg as you would see if you re-read the first sentence of the post you refer to. You are doing a great job of stirring him up and he seems to be reaching a stage of apoplexy. Be careful, however, not to cause his blood pressure to reach the stroke stage.

Don’t worry about your spelling as long as you get your message across. It is amusing that “Genie” talks about you using a spell check but couldn’t your name right him/her self!

As for vg, it is obvious that he is beyond change. For example I found it apocryphal that a serving police officer did not have the investigative skills to determine that one of my posts was directed to his mate dj, not him. I would have been most impressed if he had simply said “TB – I think your post was meant for dj, not me”. But he could not resist a spray!

His last response was to imply that Orders of Australia only result from being nominated by “mates” whereas his “real medals” aren’t. What garbage and what a put down for all those people, including those in the police and defence forces, who have OA’s. It is obvious he has never been involved in nominating someone for an OA.

I was recently involved, along with the retired head of the ABC, in nominating for an OA a fantastic guy who is now 92 years old and a recipient of many other awards. The hoops we had to jump through, and the supporting evidence that was required, was incredible. Unfortunately he did not get up in the last round.

Anyway, I feel that the police force needs regeneration. There are too many dinosaurs like vg still in the force which impedes a change in culture.

I recommend you read the Jack Waterford article “Public suffers in police web” in the Canberra Times of 11 April (it is also on the CT website) to see just how necessary a change of culture is needed in ACT policing.

Genie 11:25 pm 10 Apr 07

Yay TeddyBear learnt to use paragraphs

And Farc you failed on your spell check.. I believe we had English teachers, not Engish.

RM 10:45 pm 10 Apr 07

Saying that you don’t like the system is very broad-ranging, and it’s easy to say it without really having to explain it. I’m afraid that your posts do come across as beng anti-police – as I quoted you earlier “…I’ve never been a copper (I like helping people, not hurting them)”. If that isn’t showing your opinion of police, then I must not understand your intention in posting that comment.

Remember that this thread is about someone getting a fine after contesting a caution. Is this also part of the ‘system’ you don’t like?

farq 10:09 pm 10 Apr 07

Maelinar: there you go, 4 again. Otherwise my post would be an essay.

Took me little over 10mins this time (I had to spell check them for VG and others inoffensive), but I’m trying to post while having an after dinner smoke (I’ve got my computer setup in my garage).

farq 10:03 pm 10 Apr 07

teddy_bare: Are you calling me a ‘reactionary’?

Please don’t, you sound like one of my engish teachers.

Everyone else just says I talk too much.

farq 9:57 pm 10 Apr 07

RM: As I said I have family in all the services (none of us are SAS yet), including the AFP. I’m not anti coppers, I just don’t like the system as it is.

I also think half the problem is people’s attitude in all branches of the justice system.

farq 9:51 pm 10 Apr 07

VG: Oh come on, I’ll just take your reply to mean you don’t know. If you do know, please explain how the 2006 HC decision impacts on us all non coppers/lawyers!

Forget the grammar and spelling (as I said, I was educated by hippies), besides some name calling on both sides it’s been a partially illuminating and civilised augment (which is what RA and the internet is ALL about!).

I’m just a young dad in the PS. The only time we should (hopefully) ever meet professionally is on the tuggers parkway (at worst it will be a mid range fine). In real life, I’m as polite to people as they are to me (tone of voice counts).

If nothing else it has been entertaining for everyone else.

BTW: I spell checked this post before sending it, so hopefully the grammar is not a bad example to others.

RM 8:44 pm 10 Apr 07

Well, if I saw someone calling the cops ‘pigs’ to their faces, I’d be surprised, and disappointed, if nothing happened.
And for someone such as yourself, making comments like “…I’ve never been a copper (I like helping people, not hurting them)”, well, I won’t be losing any sleep over you getting sprayed. Tongue in cheek or not, it sums up your attitude quite nicely.

vg 8:38 pm 10 Apr 07

At the risk of only encouraging the illiteracy, insanity and attention deficit problems of some I’ll let the idiocy of the couple of above posts speak for themselves.

Crazy Chester, is that you?

I look forward to 11 single sentence posts from Farq in reply. As he seems to know the law with respect to offensive behaviour in depth I look forward to his practical application of his experiment.

OA’s are awards where you get nominated by your ‘mates’. They mean nothing to someone who has real medals

teddy bear 7:57 pm 10 Apr 07

Very reactionary stuff vg. And you “don’t tolerate fools” either. Your claim to be “ideally suited” to the police force as far as the Myers
Briggs test is concerned is hard to believe considering that many of your “clients” would be fools and being reactionary, aggressive and dismissive would not suit the modern police force. Like I said before, the Army might be a better fit for you.

Similarly, your comments on Maslow show you do not understand the theory at all. Since you have been working in the police force for 16 years, are not your own boss and feel the need to attack anyone who does not agree with you; it appears you still have some way to go before reaching self-actualisation.

As for your numerous claims of “community awards and letters of appreciation”, I say the same as you and your mate DJ – unsubstantiated assertions.

Anyway, so what. I remember that drug rehabilitation woman being given an Order of Australia and then had it removed after going back on drugs and driving without a licence and/or unregistered on several occasions. The awards you claim are mickey mouse in comparison. I will make a similar unsubstantiated assertion, which at least I and my acquaintances know to be true, even if this forum doesn’t. My father-in-law has a knighthood and my brother-in-law has an OA. I have never heard either of them use their award to justify their bona-fides or their positions in a debate.

I wonder if you can see the hypocrisy in promoting your own claims whilst disputing others?

farq 7:32 pm 10 Apr 07

It’s okay to insult someone about something they can change. Like being a rude cop.

It’s not okay to insult someone because they are old, fat, ugly, gay, black or whatever.

You don’t seem to get this.

You can choose not to be a rude cop, so I think the insult fits.

I can sleep peacefully in that knowledge.

farq 7:28 pm 10 Apr 07

Just incase you did not read my post….

“insults directed at police officers would not constitute an offence, unless others who might hear would be reasonably likely to be provoked to physical retaliation.”

My reading says, an insulted cop just had to wear it (or pull out the pepper spray!).

farq 7:24 pm 10 Apr 07

So the 2006 HC judgement does not over rule the 1990 Crimes ACT? I thought that is what the HC did. As I’ve said, I’m no lawyer, so come on explain…… If you’re so good with management theory how about you show some people skills and pass on some knowledge without trying to throw around school yard insults.

I mention ADD, because you don’t seem to understand the difference between an insult and a joke. Besides, I thought you did not mind being referred to as a barnyard animal?

Try insult me all you like (bet you do that in uniform too), because it’s not going to win you the respect you cops always seem to complain

vg 6:19 pm 10 Apr 07

“Come on, show off your legal eagle skills and explain how it is still an offence. I’m asking nicely.”

Try this one on for size Einstein

Straight from our very own legislation, being the Crimes Act 1900 (and please note the section in capitals)

392 Offensive behaviour
A person shall not in, near, or within the view or hearing of a person in, a public place behave in a riotous, indecent, offensive or INSULTING manner.
Maximum penalty: $1 000.

I mention Ritalin, which has much broader applications than simply ADHD, and you vicariously take offence for all and sundry, yet apparently I can’t at a personal barb. You really need some help in arguing. Its just becoming cruel now

farq 5:34 pm 10 Apr 07

But don’t worry, I’m above need to get revenge by locking you up… 🙂

farq 5:33 pm 10 Apr 07

VG: ah, the old check you’re spelling retort.

Nicely played. Have not seen that since I was on IRC way back.

Also noticed you are back at it, making fun of ADHD disorder people now. Who next diabetes? You may think it’s a joke but other may find that an insult.

Or will you puff up your own ego a bit, then list a bit more of your resume of locking away people who have ‘insulted you’.

I have read your posts, including the childish ‘big man’ talk etc. Maybe in your infinite experience you can tell us all why you can lock someone up for insulting you if:

“…unless others who might hear would be reasonably likely to be provoked to physical retaliation.”

Come on, show off your legal eagle skills and explain how it is still an offence. I’m asking nicely.

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