Australian Public Service, public circus pay rise issue

@ JC: Agreed on the EL1 thing. I think most people forget that its often just a pay-band that they need to hit to be able to retain the specialist expertise that they need. My department seems to be very much in this boat with a lot of specialists and experts in their fields who are on EL1 pay grade, and still making far less than they could be making in private industry.

Its sad that the government of the day always turns when the chips are down to kicking the public service, as at the end of the day the ability to implement the policies they get elected for rests with the public service. As others have said you can only trim the fat so far before you’re cutting bone, and while I admit that there’s probably a median to be found between Local territory public service funding and Federal public service funding, its not as if any federal departments except perhaps those who can fly the ‘Fighting the War on Terror (and civil rights)’ flag are swimming in money. It seems to mainly be a case of barely having enough money to fund business as usual let alone actually give the public service organisations the infrastructural improvements they rely on to stay as productive as possible.

At the end of the day I want to actually serve the public interest as a public servant (anachronistic as that may sound) and it pains me that the government seems to either take this for granted (and the pollies get paid far better than I do I’m sure) or view it as some kind of failing on my part to be corrected by bludgeoning me into having significantly worse conditions and sub-par pay. This isn’t exactly the way to encourage the best and brightest into the public service and to stay there…

I still don’t get what you are trying to say?
– hmmm, (yeah yeah) give it another read i say politely.

You say things like “Numerous highly paid contractors since 2009 are now permanent APS public servants.” What is numerous? 2, 4? 24,000 a bazillion?
– between 2 & 24,000 (not a bazillion)

Where are you getting your stats? Isn’t it better to pay them as APS level 1?s than ‘highly paid’ contractors?
– thanks to recruitment companies and the government, contractors have demanded APS appointment well above APS 1. is their PS work level standard really APS 6 or above? c’mon, where is the standard instead of convenietly placing people on their expected salary upon permanent appointment? that’s the joke, it’s not funny, get real.

“CPSU has not observed that many new arrivals to the APS got there too easy and with large remuneration, especially contractors and the business relationship…

Georges, have you read what you wrote here? Surely the CPSU not observing this is a good thing?
– CPSU does not give a toss about APS work level standards. path of least resistance.

“Numerous APS 6 staff were promoted to EL1 level during 2009.” I can’t find these figues. Can you provide a link?
– ask around, Canberra is a small town as you would know. do it, ask around.

Non CPSU members would be ’round more than half don’t you think, pigdog?

Well, according to the CPSU (http://www.cpsu.org.au/multiversions/21683/FileName/ACT_Paid_Parking.pdf) they represent around 60,000 members in the Australian Public Service, ACT Public Service, NT Public Service, ABC and the CSIRO. Without looking up how many people these organisations employee, I would imagine that non-CPSU members are the majority.
– yep, kinda what i’ve said already.

I think you are trying to say that only CPSU members, who were not contractors before they joined the APS, should get a pay rise?
“CPSU has not observed that many new arrivals to the APS got there too easy and with large remuneration, especially contractors and the business relationship… Georges, have you read what you wrote here?
– yep, i wrote it.

Surely the CPSU not observing this is a good thing?

“Numerous APS 6 staff were promoted to EL1 level during 2009.” I can’t find these figues. Can you provide a link?

Non CPSU members would be ’round more than half don’t you think, pigdog?

Well, according to the CPSU (http://www.cpsu.org.au/multiversions/21683/FileName/ACT_Paid_Parking.pdf) they represent around 60,000 members in the Australian Public Service, ACT Public Service, NT Public Service, ABC and the CSIRO. Without looking up how many people these organisations employee, I would imagine that non-CPSU members are the majority.

I think you are trying to say that only CPSU members, who were not contractors before they joined the APS, should get a pay rise?

– i did not infer any public servant should receive a pay rise. pay rise for what? inflation maybe. definitely not for those i’ve cited and those you and other authors have assisted in clarifying on this this subject / site / posts.

Georges,

I still don’t get what you are trying to say? You say things like “Numerous highly paid contractors since 2009 are now permanent APS public servants.” What is numerous? 2, 4? 24,000 a bazillion? Where are you getting your stats? Isn’t it better to pay them as APS level 1’s than ‘highly paid’ contractors?

“CPSU has not observed that many new arrivals to the APS got there too easy and with large remuneration, especially contractors and the business relationship… Georges, have you read what you wrote here? Surely the CPSU not observing this is a good thing?

“Numerous APS 6 staff were promoted to EL1 level during 2009.” I can’t find these figues. Can you provide a link?

Non CPSU members would be ’round more than half don’t you think, pigdog?

Well, according to the CPSU (http://www.cpsu.org.au/multiversions/21683/FileName/ACT_Paid_Parking.pdf) they represent around 60,000 members in the Australian Public Service, ACT Public Service, NT Public Service, ABC and the CSIRO. Without looking up how many people these organisations employee, I would imagine that non-CPSU members are the majority.

I think you are trying to say that only CPSU members, who were not contractors before they joined the APS, should get a pay rise?

r_evolution said :

In all honesty, the big issue for myself as for most other public servants that I know is not that the payrise is below CPI or inflation rises, as we all understand that its particuarly tough economic times, but that this sub-par pay rise is being ‘cost recovered’ through erosion of conditions, such as diminished personal leave etc.

A sub CPI pay rise would be something to grit your teeth and suck up, but a sub CPI pay rise funded by slashing leave and conditions comes across as more remeniscent of the Howard years than a government which promised never to bring back workchoices. I think that the APSC’s plan to erode across the board by negotiating a whole bunch of departmental agreements at the one time has somewhat backfired though, as rather than a piecemeal ‘one department at a time’ getting done over, its become blatantly obvious to almost all across the departments affected what is happening which results in larger consequences and co-ordinated action if it does come to industrial action of some kind.

And the real kicker, when it comes to somehow finding these efficiencies to fund any pay rise, is that we’ve been doing this for years now…and there’s not a whole lot of fat left to trim. The net result is, that this time around, my agency (with around 1,000 staff) is looking to shed about 25 positions to help to meet the increased efficiency dividend. We just don’t have that much of real value to sacrifice any more – most of what’s left is stuff that’s protected by workplace laws, and is off the table.

So my team of two, responsible for distributing and maintaining the software on over 1,500 computers, is going to struggle to get the extra staff member or two we desperately need.

r_evolution said :

A sub CPI pay rise would be something to grit your teeth and suck up, but a sub CPI pay rise funded by slashing leave and conditions comes across as more remeniscent of the Howard years than a government which promised never to bring back workchoices.

None of that applies to public servants because in a political sense we are nothing more than fodder and an easy target to allow them to show the rest of Australia how tough they are with the budget. Slash a few thousand public servants, sell that to the country and then quietly let the numbers build up again. Both parties are just as guilty.

malbert said :

PigDog said :

According to https://www.apsedii.gov.au there are:

I know I’m over simplifying here, but adding Trainees through to APS6 averages out to only 2.86 staff per EL.

I was going to standardize salary data but I can’t seem to find it on http://www.apsedii.gov.au? I’m guesstimating ~40% are at or over the average wage.

As someone currently in the private sector, I can sum that up with “wow, just wow”.

Many EL’s don’t have any staff at all (such as myself). At the end of the day it is a label referring to a pay band. Many specialist positions get paid at the EL level to maintain at least some form of parity with the non APS world.

Indeed amongst the EL levels there are even special categories in some departments to pay certain people even more. Doctors and lawyers for example. So don’t get too caught up in trying to pigeon hole levels to function and saying x number of EL’s have y number of staff as it means SFA. Just treat it all as a pay level.

PigDog said :

What a ridiculous post. Quoting politicians as a source shows you are obviously an idiot for a start. But I will pick on only your last comment “At least for half… I do not believe so”

According to https://www.apsedii.gov.au there are:

– 1,385 Trainee & Grads,
– 5,037 APS 1-2,
– 52,074 APS 3-4,
– 51,349 APS 5-6,
– 38,416 ELs, and
– 2,610 SES in the APS.

Which half exactly do you suggest don’t deserve a pay raise?

(as an aside, I also will quote from Joe Hockey: “I am coming to you, Swannie.” http://www.openaustralia.org/search/?pid=10306&pop=1 )

I think he was saying the non union members shouldn’t get one. Hard to tell with such a disjointed rant though.

In all honesty, the big issue for myself as for most other public servants that I know is not that the payrise is below CPI or inflation rises, as we all understand that its particuarly tough economic times, but that this sub-par pay rise is being ‘cost recovered’ through erosion of conditions, such as diminished personal leave etc.

A sub CPI pay rise would be something to grit your teeth and suck up, but a sub CPI pay rise funded by slashing leave and conditions comes across as more remeniscent of the Howard years than a government which promised never to bring back workchoices. I think that the APSC’s plan to erode across the board by negotiating a whole bunch of departmental agreements at the one time has somewhat backfired though, as rather than a piecemeal ‘one department at a time’ getting done over, its become blatantly obvious to almost all across the departments affected what is happening which results in larger consequences and co-ordinated action if it does come to industrial action of some kind.

heel pigdog

Now carefully understand the premise of my comments of which I repeat & expand upon:

Numerous highly paid contractors since 2009 are now permanent APS public servants. Most are not CPSU members and probably consider themselves in line for a pay rise – for what? Not on, go find out for yourself how these staff became permanent. Frequent pay increases in contractor hourly rates per agency, prior to their APS permanent appointment, has resulted in a public service joke. CPSU has not observed that many new arrivals to the APS got there too easy and with large remuneration, especially contractors and the business relationship between government and recruitment companies that made this joke a reality.

Numerous APS 6 staff were promoted to EL1 level during 2009. Most are not CPSU members and consider themselves in line for a pay rise – for what? Inflation maybe.

Who is doing the basic grunt work within the APS? Many fully paid up APS CPSU members, that’s who, and not ex-contractors, that’s for sure.

‘Which half exactly do you suggest don’t deserve a pay raise?’

Non CPSU members would be ’round more than half don’t you think, pigdog?

PigDog said :

According to https://www.apsedii.gov.au there are:

I know I’m over simplifying here, but adding Trainees through to APS6 averages out to only 2.86 staff per EL.

I was going to standardize salary data but I can’t seem to find it on http://www.apsedii.gov.au? I’m guesstimating ~40% are at or over the average wage.

As someone currently in the private sector, I can sum that up with “wow, just wow”.