North south coffee shootout

c_c said :

Met him, talked to him, don’t doubt his passion. However passion is one thing, competence and ability quite another. There’s plenty of golfing tragics out there who are passionate about shooting 18 holes in the weekend, doesn’t mean they’ll win the Masters.

Fact is he’s chosen to feel second tier brands and push those on people rather than better machines out there.

I once went in and one of his senior people wouldn’t shut up about a Rancilio for around $900. I kept pointing out that I knew of an Italian brand that made an e61 model for around $1300 that the places in Sydney and Melbourne stock, and a machine from a big brand at The Good Guys for $700 that offered the same performance as the Rancilio they were pushing. I later found out the model they were pushing was a weak, high margin offering with known defects.

Just about every machine in his shop you see, including the grinders, you’ll note they’re second tier rip offs of major brands.

Wow, I certainly hope you are working in the coffee industry, and your skills aren’t wasted as just a run-of-the-mill ‘amateur’ coffee connoisseur!

However, as I know nothing about coffee machines and would like to learn more, could you please answer some questions for me?

1) How should I judge competence and ability of coffee machine shop staff? What are the criteria to benchmark them against?
2) What are the first and second tier coffee machine brands, and how do I determine if a machine meets a particular tier’s criteria? Is there a review site somewhere, or is it just personal preference?
3) What was the ‘big brand’ the Good Guys were selling?
4) How do I know what level of ‘performance’ particular machines have, so I can compare them? Do I just read stuff off the Internet, or should I give the models a test run myself?
5) How do you know about which machine(s) have ‘high margins’ and/or ‘known defects’? How can I learn that information too, so I’m not ripped off like a clueless sucker?

I hope you can help me understand more, as the only thing I have worked out is Rancilio (which is also an Italian company) has been around since the 1920’s, so they must have been knocking off the ‘major brands’ for some time – and doing pretty well out of it as they are still around?!

P.S. What coffee machine did you end up getting in the end? Hopefully I can afford that, and then save the hassle of researching the *best* machine myself!

Thanks!

I might not be “trained” but I know what I like. Early Doors Cafe in Gungahlin makes a good, and most importantly, consistent coffee.

c_c said :

I once went in and one of his senior people wouldn’t shut up about a Rancilio for around $900. I kept pointing out that I knew of an Italian brand that made an e61 model for around $1300 that the places in Sydney and Melbourne stock, and a machine from a big brand at The Good Guys for $700 that offered the same performance as the Rancilio they were pushing. I later found out the model they were pushing was a weak, high margin offering with known defects.

I assume the $900 Rancilio machine you’re talking about is the Silvia, and it’s a very good machine with a *long* track record. Both Sunbeam and Breville have bought new machines to the market, most recently Breville with their dual-boiler unit. Feature-wise, they’re impressive, but neither have the pedigree or track record of the Silvia, so I think it’s entirely appropriate for the Cosmorex guys to rave about it.

It’s worth noting that Cosmorex have been roasting beans in Canberra *far* longer than any other local roaster, and their “premium” espresso blend is excellent, and reasonably priced. That said, you really have to go to their place in Fyshwick to buy beans to have any hope of freshness – anything in the supermarket could have been sitting there for god knows how long.

BelcoMan said :

Why doesn’t someone get Attillio from Cosmorex involved?

P.S. Atillio’s blends are full of inferior Robusta beans.

pajs said :

Rosscoact, have had one visit to 2 before 10 and had an OK coffee (a flat white). Happy to give them a couple more visits and see how they go.

The roasting machine was there, but they had not used it and did not have a human roaster to run it. Have they started roasting yet and with someone who has decent roasting experience?

Sames here, no evidence of roasting but the coffee was really fresh when I had a cup in January

i really miss hansel and gretels in belconnen. they sold to a couple who ran it down, it then changed hands and was rebranded – they did away with coffee grinding and its now just.another.cafe.

Rosscoact, have had one visit to 2 before 10 and had an OK coffee (a flat white). Happy to give them a couple more visits and see how they go.

The roasting machine was there, but they had not used it and did not have a human roaster to run it. Have they started roasting yet and with someone who has decent roasting experience?

BelcoMan said :

Seriously?

I have met him and it took about 90 seconds to realise the passion he has for ALL coffee not just his own.
The temptation here is to be sarcastic and make a comment about a keyboard warrior knowing more than someone who is recognised as one of the top coffee judges in teh country, but I won’t do that.

To me, coffee is like wine, it would be boring if we all liked the same Cab Sav, Merlot or Shiraz. Different tastes – different drinks – simple really

Met him, talked to him, don’t doubt his passion. However passion is one thing, competence and ability quite another. There’s plenty of golfing tragics out there who are passionate about shooting 18 holes in the weekend, doesn’t mean they’ll win the Masters.

Fact is he’s chosen to feel second tier brands and push those on people rather than better machines out there.

I once went in and one of his senior people wouldn’t shut up about a Rancilio for around $900. I kept pointing out that I knew of an Italian brand that made an e61 model for around $1300 that the places in Sydney and Melbourne stock, and a machine from a big brand at The Good Guys for $700 that offered the same performance as the Rancilio they were pushing. I later found out the model they were pushing was a weak, high margin offering with known defects.

Just about every machine in his shop you see, including the grinders, you’ll note they’re second tier rip offs of major brands.

pajs, what’s your thoughts on 2 before 10?

pajs said :

This isn’t a bad starting place regarding how people measure quality with cupping: http://coffeegeek.com/guides/beginnercupping/cuppingforms The Specialty Coffee Association of America has another fairly influential form/guide.

It should happen all the time at roasters and stores, but I think it is fair to say only a small number of people are prepared to put in the effort that top-quality and consistent coffee requires. Aside from coffee I can make, or people I know in Canberra that are roasters or coffee-obsessives make, I can’t say there is anywhere in Canberra that’s top-tier, as either a roaster or a cafe. The guy at Silver Hills Nursery, who is obsessive and fanatical about freshness, cleanliness & quality of coffee, is probably as close as Canberra gets to top-tier.

As for Cosmorex, I buy their beans when I have run out of better stuff, because I can walk up to my local IGA and grab them, but they are not a patch on the top-tier roasters out of Melbourne or Sydney. Alan Frew at http://www.coffeeco.com.au is probably my pick of Australian roasters, but I’ve bought great beans from other Melbourne and Sydney small-batch roasters.

Canberra could really do with a high-quality, small-batch roaster who knows their stuff. You can stuff up great beans with a dodgy grinder, dirty equipment, wrong temperatures, or just not knowing what you’re doing, but you can’t make great coffee from sub-standard beans.

pajs said :

You can stuff up great beans with a dodgy grinder, dirty equipment, wrong temperatures, or just not knowing what you’re doing, but you can’t make great coffee from sub-standard beans.

Just the other day I was telling someone how improper technique totally ruined my cop of Nescafe Blend 43.

This isn’t a bad starting place regarding how people measure quality with cupping: http://coffeegeek.com/guides/beginnercupping/cuppingforms The Specialty Coffee Association of America has another fairly influential form/guide.

It should happen all the time at roasters and stores, but I think it is fair to say only a small number of people are prepared to put in the effort that top-quality and consistent coffee requires. Aside from coffee I can make, or people I know in Canberra that are roasters or coffee-obsessives make, I can’t say there is anywhere in Canberra that’s top-tier, as either a roaster or a cafe. The guy at Silver Hills Nursery, who is obsessive and fanatical about freshness, cleanliness & quality of coffee, is probably as close as Canberra gets to top-tier.

As for Cosmorex, I buy their beans when I have run out of better stuff, because I can walk up to my local IGA and grab them, but they are not a patch on the top-tier roasters out of Melbourne or Sydney. Alan Frew at http://www.coffeeco.com.au is probably my pick of Australian roasters, but I’ve bought great beans from other Melbourne and Sydney small-batch roasters.

Canberra could really do with a high-quality, small-batch roaster who knows their stuff. You can stuff up great beans with a dodgy grinder, dirty equipment, wrong temperatures, or just not knowing what you’re doing, but you can’t make great coffee from sub-standard beans.

c_c said :

BelcoMan said :

Why doesn’t someone get Attillio from Cosmorex involved?

If the man is good enough to be recognised as a coffee judge at The Royal Easter Show – I will go with his call.

Because he’s a hack who sells second rate machines and tries to call them top of the line.
There’s a heap of good coffee machine specialists interstate selling proper machines, Atillio takes second tier brands and charges top of the line prices. I worked out it was worth a drive to Bondi Junction if I wanted a proper machine.

Same with coffee itself, heaps of great roasters out there, many cheaper and better quality.

Seriously?

I have met him and it took about 90 seconds to realise the passion he has for ALL coffee not just his own.
The temptation here is to be sarcastic and make a comment about a keyboard warrior knowing more than someone who is recognised as one of the top coffee judges in teh country, but I won’t do that.

To me, coffee is like wine, it would be boring if we all liked the same Cab Sav, Merlot or Shiraz. Different tastes – different drinks – simple really

c_c said :

Because he’s a hack who sells second rate machines and tries to call them top of the line. There’s a heap of good coffee machine specialists interstate selling proper machines, Atillio takes second tier brands and charges top of the line prices. I worked out it was worth a drive to Bondi Junction if I wanted a proper machine.

So there you have it people. As alluded to earlier, it was only a matter of time before someone said that no one on Canberra knows anything about coffee, and you have to go interstate (in this case for machines and ?beans). So, I expect to see all you connoisseurs trundling up the Hume to Sydney each morning for your fix of ‘proper’ coffee – no one in canberra has a clue about the stuff, apparently….. Hahahahaha! 😉

BelcoMan said :

Why doesn’t someone get Attillio from Cosmorex involved?

If the man is good enough to be recognised as a coffee judge at The Royal Easter Show – I will go with his call.

Because he’s a hack who sells second rate machines and tries to call them top of the line.
There’s a heap of good coffee machine specialists interstate selling proper machines, Atillio takes second tier brands and charges top of the line prices. I worked out it was worth a drive to Bondi Junction if I wanted a proper machine.

Same with coffee itself, heaps of great roasters out there, many cheaper and better quality.

BelcoMan said :

Why doesn’t someone get Attillio from Cosmorex involved?

If the man is good enough to be recognised as a coffee judge at The Royal Easter Show – I will go with his call.

Because he will nominate one of the businesses he supplies.

Why doesn’t someone get Attillio from Cosmorex involved?

If the man is good enough to be recognised as a coffee judge at The Royal Easter Show – I will go with his call.

If you are looking for somewhere without the hipster status then the Continental deli across from Woolies in Gungahlin makes the best coffee in Canberra hands down. No tattooed uni students working behind the counter who are too busy looking at themselves in the mirror to serve, no line up of wannabes looking at themselves in the reflections of artwork, just 1 italian bloke who, with a minimum of fuss makes the perfect cup of long black, short black or latte.

davo101 said :

rosscoact said :

Nope, not at all subjective, but that’s ok, it’s a common mistake that many people make.

Really? Just for future reference what is the SI unit for coffee quality?

SI unit – LOL

As to the actual point of the question – how would one measure a great coffee, I’m not sure as I’m not a coffee expert (I do know what I like though) but for the sake of discussion I’ll have a go. If there’s any experts out there I’d be interested to hear how they would judge.

Quality of bean
Freshness of bean
Quality of roast – within the parameters of the type of roast one was aiming for
Quality of extraction – purity of flavour, completeness of extraction, lack of bitterness
Then given it’s a ‘cup of coffee’ I suppose there would be the whole world of milk, sugar, froth, art etc etc

Looking at those criteria, some are subjective but most are measurable and can be judged.

davo101 said :

rosscoact said :

Nope, not at all subjective, but that’s ok, it’s a common mistake that many people make.

Really? Just for future reference what is the SI unit for coffee quality?

The Smug (Sg). A short black would probably be measured in millismugs (mSg).

rosscoact said :

Nope, not at all subjective, but that’s ok, it’s a common mistake that many people make.

Really? Just for future reference what is the SI unit for coffee quality?

rosscoact said :

Mysteryman said :

rosscoact said :

Please remember just because you enjoy the taste of a particular brew that doesn’t mean that it’s a good or great beverage. Like most things unless you have made an effort to become an expert through study, practice, training and experience then you probably don’t know the difference between something you like and something thta’s great.

This applies to art, wine, food or whatever.

That is not to say that it’s not perfectly legitimate to say which coffee you like. It’s just not necessarily good or great.

Back to your regular program.

Thanks for setting us all straight, Captain Connoisseur. Here I was thinking that “good” and “great” were subjective.

Nope, not at all subjective, but that’s ok, it’s a common mistake that many people make.

An example would be “I like McDonalds therefore it is great food.” Clearly an error in fact.

If that was no experts then art galleries would be full of velvet paintings of Elvis and dogs playing poker, wine tastings would be replaced by Woodstock tastings and Maccas would get Michelin stars.

I apologise if this sounds patronising.

P1 has a good point with critic’s taste often being out of touch with the general public’s however I would contend that great things are intrinsically better than not so great things. Better skills, metter materials, better design and so on. In addition, great things stay great and withstand the test of time.

As I said, just because a person likes something doesn’t maje it

“Great” is completely open to interpretation. You might think food can only be great because of the way it’s prepared, while someone else might consider speed of preparation and cost as the determining factors. As such they would be well within reason to claim that McDonald’s is great food.

There is a lot more to it than your simple, and erroneous “only an expert knows” suggestion. An “expert” may have more knowledge to judge with, but it doesn’t necessarily make them right.

Mysteryman said :

rosscoact said :

Please remember just because you enjoy the taste of a particular brew that doesn’t mean that it’s a good or great beverage. Like most things unless you have made an effort to become an expert through study, practice, training and experience then you probably don’t know the difference between something you like and something thta’s great.

This applies to art, wine, food or whatever.

That is not to say that it’s not perfectly legitimate to say which coffee you like. It’s just not necessarily good or great.

Back to your regular program.

Thanks for setting us all straight, Captain Connoisseur. Here I was thinking that “good” and “great” were subjective.

Nope, not at all subjective, but that’s ok, it’s a common mistake that many people make.

An example would be “I like McDonalds therefore it is great food.” Clearly an error in fact.

If that was no experts then art galleries would be full of velvet paintings of Elvis and dogs playing poker, wine tastings would be replaced by Woodstock tastings and Maccas would get Michelin stars.

I apologise if this sounds patronising.

P1 has a good point with critic’s taste often being out of touch with the general public’s however I would contend that great things are intrinsically better than not so great things. Better skills, metter materials, better design and so on. In addition, great things stay great and withstand the test of time.

As I said, just because a person likes something doesn’t maje it

rosscoact said :

Please remember just because you enjoy the taste of a particular brew that doesn’t mean that it’s a good or great beverage. Like most things unless you have made an effort to become an expert through study, practice, training and experience then you probably don’t know the difference between something you like and something thta’s great.

This applies to art, wine, food or whatever.

That is not to say that it’s not perfectly legitimate to say which coffee you like. It’s just not necessarily good or great.

Back to your regular program.

Thanks for setting us all straight, Captain Connoisseur. Here I was thinking that “good” and “great” were subjective.

rosscoact said :

Please remember just because you enjoy the taste of a particular brew that doesn’t mean that it’s a good or great beverage. Like most things unless you have made an effort to become an expert through study, practice, training and experience then you probably don’t know the difference between something you like and something thta’s great.

This is true to a point. Just so long as what the “experts” who have “studied” reflect what the average person likes (more or less). ‘Cause if the experts get together and pick coffee, or a wine, yet 99% of the public think it is cr@p, then the experts need to reconsider how they define coffee.

This is failing that sometimes become apparent in the art world, where critics become more and more distant, first from what the public at large thinks, but then even from what the art appreciating sector of the public think.

missme said :

Best coffee – southside Red Brick Cafe at the Curtin shops… and soon to be roasting their own!

If we are nominating Cafes, the Red Brick is owned by the same guy who owns Beppes Tuscan Kitchen, at Beclonnen Markets. Same coffee, and the one in Belconnen was there first.

FD10 said :

North-South coffee shootout? This is a no-brainer: Gus’ vs My Cafe

My S. bongori could take your E. coli any day.

Please remember just because you enjoy the taste of a particular brew that doesn’t mean that it’s a good or great beverage. Like most things unless you have made an effort to become an expert through study, practice, training and experience then you probably don’t know the difference between something you like and something thta’s great.

This applies to art, wine, food or whatever.

That is not to say that it’s not perfectly legitimate to say which coffee you like. It’s just not necessarily good or great.

Back to your regular program.

North-South coffee shootout? This is a no-brainer: Gus’ vs My Cafe

My Senseo machine coffee at home and the Aldi Nespresso machine rip-off coffee at work. Both Northside. Only coffee in Canberra that tastes good without milk or sugar and only costs me about 40c a cup.

Take your pick

– Who the hell voted for this moron
– Dont these idiots have anything better to do
– How much do they get paid to carry on with this s###

astrojax said :

p1 said :

Even if you had the best coffee of your life there six months ago, the odds that the beans have been roasted the same, and the dude making it is the same, and the milk will be the same temp again today is one in a million.

unless it’s loui’s; he’s always on the machine [i think they glue him there…] 🙂

Well, you know what they say. There is an exception to every grossly exagerated rant.

EvanJames said :

c_c said :

Ona a coffee technically comes from the north side, they roast it in Fyshwick 🙂

Fyshwick’s on the southern side of the Molonglo.

Ona also have a cafe behind dept. of Immigration in Belconnen, so, although it wins hands down, it should probably be disqualified from this argument.

astrojax said :

p1 said :

Even if you had the best coffee of your life there six months ago, the odds that the beans have been roasted the same, and the dude making it is the same, and the milk will be the same temp again today is one in a million.

unless it’s loui’s; he’s always on the machine [i think they glue him there…] 🙂

[hitches pants unfeasibly high; attaches onion to belt] Back in the mid eighties I lived in Darlinghurst, just opposite Bill and Tony’s which was a landmark even back then. Started nearly every day with a delicious flat white, and almost always the same old guy behind the counter driving the machine. Fast forward to late last year and we find ourselves back in Stanley Street and see B&T is still there. Go in – nothing’s changed… including the guy pulling the coffee! Still excellent too. Now that’s a man dedicated to his role.

[grouch on] Also, do our reps really have nothing better to do? This is trivial! [/grouch]

TheDancingDjinn said :

astrojax said :

why don’t they just hold a barrista tournament on the lake: the dancing djinn will win, and the question will be forever settled with ‘neither’…

(though i am skeptical of a ‘recipe’ for coffee, from se asia or elsewhere, that isn’t simply ‘roast coffee beans, grind, use espresso machine to produce strong black coffee, drink…’)

and one hopes that the outcome isn’t based on a single cafe’s excellence. the idea that coffee is better on one side of the lake or another should mean that ‘generally’ (ie, across several cafes) one can get a better coffee in that domain…

its just condensed milk in the coffee – no sugar no milk – just condensed milk and coffee – its super and your more than welcome to have one with me 😀

Oh, thank god. When you mentioned SE Asia, I had a feeling we were going down the “beans pooed out of some furry weasel-like creature” path. I like coffee but draw the line at that.

p1 said :

Even if you had the best coffee of your life there six months ago, the odds that the beans have been roasted the same, and the dude making it is the same, and the milk will be the same temp again today is one in a million.

unless it’s loui’s; he’s always on the machine [i think they glue him there…] 🙂

Holden Caulfield said :

poetix said :

Holden Caulfield said :

The sooner the MLAs move away from this Today Tonight crap the better.

Yes, it annoys me too. Andrew Leigh is just trying to show he gets his nose out of economics papers occasionally, and has a Great Sense of Humour. I note that the cafes he mentions are carefully picked from different areas of his electorate.

Yep, it just smells of a desperate PR attempt at trying to prove relevance.

And sorry, I should have referred to them as MPs before, not MLAs, which would make such moves even worse, haha.

Between this, the constant mail outs, and wearing that idiotic bow-tie during question time, I’m beginning to wonder what the hell Andrew Leigh actually does all day.

longshanks said :

TheDancingDjinn said :

The best coffee comes from my kitchen – the recipe from south east asia – all are welcome.

The best coffee in Canberra definitely comes from my kitchen at about 6.30am each morning. And while I do buy locally roasted beans in small quantities, and grind them just so, and tamp just so, etc. etc., I reckon the only reason that my first cup of coffee tastes better than anything else I drink during the day is because the rest of the family is still asleep, and I get to sit there for 5 minutes, by myself, not having to talk to anyone, listening to the birds singing, and generally just gently easing into the day. Bliss!

See!! THIS is why Canberra has the best coffee in the country – you can’t get quiet mornings, and birds chirping in Sydney, there is no bliss there – Winning!!

EvanJames said :

c_c said :

Ona a coffee technically comes from the north side, they roast it in Fyshwick 🙂

Fyshwick’s on the southern side of the Molonglo.

oops, I’d considered Jerrabomberra Creek the boundary.

Then again it will all be a moot point when the fill in the lake and turn it into suburbia in a hundred years or so.

c_c said :

Ona a coffee technically comes from the north side, they roast it in Fyshwick 🙂

Fyshwick’s on the southern side of the Molonglo.

TheDancingDjinn said :

The best coffee comes from my kitchen – the recipe from south east asia – all are welcome.

The best coffee in Canberra definitely comes from my kitchen at about 6.30am each morning. And while I do buy locally roasted beans in small quantities, and grind them just so, and tamp just so, etc. etc., I reckon the only reason that my first cup of coffee tastes better than anything else I drink during the day is because the rest of the family is still asleep, and I get to sit there for 5 minutes, by myself, not having to talk to anyone, listening to the birds singing, and generally just gently easing into the day. Bliss!

jsm2090 said :

oh this is a tough ‘un.

Even as a Northsider, I nominate Ona Manuka as my favourite coffee at the moment. Roasters is great, but can be a little inconsistent with the amount of coffee in a shot.

Ona a coffee technically comes from the north side, they roast it in Fyshwick 🙂

I’m going to give the crown to the Northside, but an honourable mention to those few on the Southside who do stand out. Unfortunately, for convenience and variety, north side wins.

If the North vs South rivalry is of interest to you, then you may find the following theatre show at the Street Theatre of interest:

Theatresports – North vs South: https://www.patronbase.com/_ST/Productions/TSNS/Performances

It start on Saturday 14 April.

Rollersk8r said :

Yep, hundreds of industrial espresso machines in Canberra, you’ve tried them all, and not a single outlet is doing it properly….

The amount of variation between two stores who use the same beans in the same model machine and the same tap water makes this (frequently reoccurring argument a little silly). I regularly get coffee from the same place near work, however if the usual guy is on a break I go across the road, because I don’t like the way the other person does it.

For anything thing other then a place you visit weekly, it is pointless worrying. Even if you had the best coffee of your life there six months ago, the odds that the beans have been roasted the same, and the dude making it is the same, and the milk will be the same temp again today is one in a million.

Im not a coffee snob, hell, I cant really tell the difference most the time. But one coffee that alwasy stood out for me was the ones made by Crazy About Coffee (Andrew in the van), I guess Southside since he was traversing Fyshwick (happy to be corrected). I dont think he is still in business, but best coffee I have ever had. And oh, I will throw in that Coco Black in Civic makes the best hot chocolates in the world. I know this is about coffee, but their hot chocolates are so good I just had to put it out there.

Coffee snobbery annoys the heck out of me, especially with the ridiculous generalisations that whole cities are doing it wrong. The number of times I’ve flown back in to Canberra and heard the comment our coffee is terrible. Yep, hundreds of industrial espresso machines in Canberra, you’ve tried them all, and not a single outlet is doing it properly….

TheDancingDjinn said :

its just condensed milk in the coffee – no sugar no milk – just condensed milk and coffee – its super and your more than welcome to have one with me 😀

You used to be able to get that in a tube, already mixed. I don’t think it scared any coffee shops into closing down, however.

wow, they must be busy

astrojax said :

i am skeptical of a ‘recipe’ for coffee, from se asia or elsewhere, that isn’t simply ‘roast coffee beans, grind, use espresso machine to produce strong black coffee, drink…’

Often means drip coffee + sweetened condensed milk.

astrojax said :

why don’t they just hold a barrista tournament on the lake: the dancing djinn will win, and the question will be forever settled with ‘neither’…

(though i am skeptical of a ‘recipe’ for coffee, from se asia or elsewhere, that isn’t simply ‘roast coffee beans, grind, use espresso machine to produce strong black coffee, drink…’)

and one hopes that the outcome isn’t based on a single cafe’s excellence. the idea that coffee is better on one side of the lake or another should mean that ‘generally’ (ie, across several cafes) one can get a better coffee in that domain…

its just condensed milk in the coffee – no sugar no milk – just condensed milk and coffee – its super and your more than welcome to have one with me 😀

Best coffee – southside Red Brick Cafe at the Curtin shops… and soon to be roasting their own!

poetix said :

Holden Caulfield said :

The sooner the MLAs move away from this Today Tonight crap the better.

Yes, it annoys me too. Andrew Leigh is just trying to show he gets his nose out of economics papers occasionally, and has a Great Sense of Humour. I note that the cafes he mentions are carefully picked from different areas of his electorate.

Yep, it just smells of a desperate PR attempt at trying to prove relevance.

And sorry, I should have referred to them as MPs before, not MLAs, which would make such moves even worse, haha.

why don’t they just hold a barrista tournament on the lake: the dancing djinn will win, and the question will be forever settled with ‘neither’…

(though i am skeptical of a ‘recipe’ for coffee, from se asia or elsewhere, that isn’t simply ‘roast coffee beans, grind, use espresso machine to produce strong black coffee, drink…’)

and one hopes that the outcome isn’t based on a single cafe’s excellence. the idea that coffee is better on one side of the lake or another should mean that ‘generally’ (ie, across several cafes) one can get a better coffee in that domain…

These are the serious issues that really should be nutted (beaned?) out in Senate estimates……

Holden Caulfield said :

The sooner the MLAs move away from this Today Tonight crap the better.

Yes, it annoys me too. Andrew Leigh is just trying to show he gets his nose out of economics papers occasionally, and has a Great Sense of Humour. I note that the cafes he mentions are carefully picked from different areas of his electorate.

oh and im in the Belconnen area

The best coffee comes from my kitchen – the recipe from south east asia – all are welcome.

The sooner the MLAs move away from this Today Tonight crap the better.

oh this is a tough ‘un.

Even as a Northsider, I nominate Ona Manuka as my favourite coffee at the moment. Roasters is great, but can be a little inconsistent with the amount of coffee in a shot.