Woolworths Monopoly in Queanbeyan

Sepi, there in lies a mistake. The money you pay at an independant doesn’t always stay local. In fact most of the independants buy from the major suppliers (such as the IGA supply chain) and what they make as profit is miniscule. You will find the additional staff employed by the likes of Wollies and Coles generates more local spending money than the profit generated by a so called local.

Oh with the milk debate do rememeber with Wollies they have two ‘home brands’ The one called Wollies is the pura rebadge, the home brand (red label) is the cheaper one which may be a lesser quality. Still better than the shite called Canberra milk. It wasn’t until I lived in Sydney that I realised how watered down Canberra milk really is.

I’ve tasted milk in the US, UK, all across Europe, and Japan, and I swear that Canberra Milk tastes the best. Milk in the UK was sourer, and in Japan and the US significantly sweeter, but in the end I guess it’s what you grow up with. 🙂

Growling Ferret said :

There was a story about National Foods adding a watery by product to their milk…

So the 8yo is smarter than I thought.

Seriously, that is gross.

There was a story about National Foods adding a watery by product to their milk…

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/creamed-off-by-milk-companies/2008/04/12/1207856909188.html

“Aldi doesn’t seem to be having any trouble. (entering the market)”

Yeah, right Deano. Number of Coles/Woolworths nationwide. 1,420
Number of Aldi stores nationwide. 150

Aldi consistently have trouble finding locations. They have been trying to establish a store in Dubbo for 2 years, but have twice been refused by Dubbo City Council on ‘planning’ grounds. You don’t have to be all that cynical about local government to be suspicious about where the pressure on council might be coming from.

A similar thing occurred when MagnetMart tried to establish an outlet in Tuggeranong in 2004. The authority decided that it was not ‘in the public interest’ to allow a MagnetMart there, even though the nearby Bunnings is almost always crowded. I would like to know the background to THAT decision.

I would still prefer my money to be going to the local owner of IGA than the shareholders of woolies or coles or overseas to aldi.

Who cares if they are buying a car or a holiday – they can’t do that with all their money.

Reprobate said :

Same with 650g white sliced bread – $3.49 for Sunblest, $2.29 for You’ll Love Coles or $1.09 for Smart Buy, again all baked at the same Tip Top Fyshwick factory, just with different artwork on the same plastic bag!

That Smart Buy $1 bread is great stuff. My mother used to buy it to feed the geese, so I’d steal it. Now the geese don’t get a look-in, they can find their own food.

Smackbang you are dead right with the full fat milk. I think you will find that the Wollies product comes from the Pura factories in Sydney, that is the only difference. There are flavour diferences with the heavily processed milk though but the full strength stuff should be the same.

Oh you guys want bad go to the UK. At least in Aus the likes of Wollies and Coles gives you the choice (even if the home brand section of milk is larger), in a UK Tesco or Sainsburys you have no choice but to buy the home brand milk.

And one last thing I am laughing my arse off people complaining about the amount of home brand product appearing, yet many here seem to support Aldi, who have about 95% of there products as home brand.

Seeing this dicussion has already been hijacked multiple times, my 2C worth when it comes to milk…

There are only 2 suppliers of milk to the Canberra area – Dairy Farmers and National Foods. Dairy Farmers process and package most of their milk for the Canberra region from a variety of farms in the S.E.NSW area, though sometimes their product comes from Sydney. The closest National Foods factory is in Sydney AFAIK. National Foods sells under the brands of Pura, Daisy Fresh and Woolworths (including Home Brand). Dairy Farmers packages their milk under just about every other name – Canberra Milk, Coles (both You’ll Love Coles and Smart Buy), Supabarn, IGA, etc etc. The DF milk is all exactly the same except for labels, cap colours and, for Canberra Milk, their recent big point-of-difference – the seal under the cap. Ring-a-ding-ding!

Yes for milk connesoiurs there is a huge difference in taste between the regular milk from National Foods and Dairy Farmers (with Dairy Farmers the clear winner). And if you compare the nutrition labels, as I recall the DF product is fractionally creamier (ie, more milk fat… mmmm, milk fat…).

What makes me laugh is someone choosing at Coles 2L Canberra Milk ($3.29?) over You’ll Love Coles at $2.79 or Smart Buy at $2.09 FOR THE EXACT SAME THING!!! Same with 650g white sliced bread – $3.49 for Sunblest, $2.29 for You’ll Love Coles or $1.09 for Smart Buy, again all baked at the same Tip Top Fyshwick factory, just with different artwork on the same plastic bag! Just how much do you want to get ripped off by choice? Marketing huh…

Qbn Coles own-brand milk regularly goes off before its use-by date! I buy full cream canberra milk for my coffee, for coffee is sacred. Cereal can take its chances.

Oh, yeah, and on the milk taste differential – Canberra Milk definitely tastes different to other milks. I buy Canberra milk for the taste, and I’ll take a blind taste test on it because, like the aforementioned 8yo, other milks taste “funny” to me (generally sweeter).

Obviously, the different taste would be related to the feed eaten by the cattle, which in turn would be different (even if the same grass species) due to different soils.

MelonHead said :

Just bring back Shoprite.

But not the horrible TV ads.
It’s a bargain, a baaaaaaaargain, when it’s from Shoprite then it’s a bargain… SHOP-RITE!

Now get that jingle out of your heads (the kiddies won’t know what I’m talking about ).

Have Woolies bought the Canberra Centre Supabarn? I just heard a very interesting yet totally unsubstantiated rumour to that effect, the purchase price was even bandied about.

Given all our previous discussion, and the recent media appearances of Mr Koundouris, have they really sold out to the enemy.

Can anybody confirm or deny this?

Does Woolies have an evil plan to take over the world?

Is somebody pulling my chain?

If this continues, we may end up with only generics in every Woolies and the customer will only have one brand/type of everything on offer, milk, apples and everything in between (sounds like ALDI). If the kids do not like the taste of the milk, it will be tough.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I want a choice about where I shop (without having to drive miles to have that choice), and what product I buy when I shop there.

Smackbang, I would be happy to take the blinded taste test. The taste is not an issue if you only have milk in your coffee etc. but is you drink it straight or have it on cereal you can pick it.

If I try to sneak the coles milk onto my 8 year olds weetbix, he runs to check the use by date because “it tastes funny”.

I am not saying that Woolies milk is “bad” I am saying they are different. This taste difference happens when cows have different diets and such.

Just bring back Shoprite. Regulate shopping hours (again)and then see what happens.

madman said :

madman said :

Prove me wrong. Go to supabarn and buy a pack small pack of smiths chips(plain), 600ml coke and a pack of malteasers. Then go to wooworths and buy the identical products and compare the reciepts and show us the findings.

Did anyone take up my offer? Or are you shocked with the results? I’ll show you my findings.

Supabarn – Civic:
Coca Cola 600ml – $2.95
Mars Maltesers 165gm – $4.38
Smiths Crinkle Original 100gm – $1.99
Total = $9.32

Woolworths – Lanyon
Coca Cola 600ml – $2.95
Maltesers 165gm – $4.23
Smiths Chops Original 100gm – $1.19
Total = $8.37
Woolworths Saving = $0.95

So you can’t always say the independants are cheaper.

Just wanted to point out that that is a false comparison – a store in the centre of the city vs one in the suburbs. The city store is always going to be more expensive (although in this case, most of the price differential came from the chips – interesting).

There are good and bad points about both the majors and the independents, it isn’t that one is cheaper, Coles and Woolies in Belconnen or Woden are the only examples of direct competition among the major supermarkets (Aldi and IGA are intended to be local shops that provide a smaller range) Look at the other chains taken over or shut out by Colesworths and their anti competitive strategies. If you want a good example of how one large business can take over the market, think of Bunnings. It has eaten every other hardware store and nursery in a 15 km radius around Tuggeranong. The size and strength of the company make it a powerful player with cash reserves and influence. You may prefer to shop elsewhere for a different range of products, but don’t get that chance.

Woolworths is the dominant player in the local retail and wholesale field. It is far more cost effective for them to disreagrd local suppliers in favour of their warehouses, although not necessarily better for the consumer, regardless of what the advertising screams. You can go from Young to the coast and there will be no difference in the range of fresh products in any store. Prices may go up or down a few cents depending on the managers discretion and local demographics. It really hits home when you are in their supermarkets buying cold storage fruit in Tumut, or Queensland prawns from Batemans Bay.

Wooolies have been doing this for yonks. Take the Kambah Woolworths. Theyre just occupying the saite so that another supermarket doesn’t get a toe hold. They have also excelled themselves in staffing the place with the most incompetent bottom-feeders on the planet.

http://www.chiefminister.act.gov.au/media.asp?section=24&media=3187&id=3187

At least Aldi has national pricing. I would like see Coles and Woolies do that.

LOL I only just read Deano’s post! you’re right on about that! And it will probably be a european car and will go to the Italians or Germans!!!

And yeah I also love your comments smackbang just incase you thought i was taking a stab at you above. Rightous comments!

Personally I’m more interested in money staying in the country, rather than the local area.

Just in relation to Smackbang and El’s comments as well as some others;
If you buy apples from Coles.. they’re apples. If you buy apples from iga… they’re apples… if you buy apples from woolworths…. they’re apples! You’re comparing apples to apples – it’s the same product, different label!!!!

If buying woolworths brand saves you a few bucks then aren’t you as a consumer better off? Woolworths is ALSO a business and they will put the most of the products out that are in demand. Example would be Holden bringing out there new VE commodore – Holden wouldn’t still be offering the VZ’s because the VE’s are the ones in demand – although there are still a few minority of them on the lot incase you have the pompus prick wanting a VZ. If you want to go into the whole why do woolworths on sell woolworths then WHY THE HELL DOES HOLDEN DEALERS ON SELL HOLDENS??? Pretty dumb question to me.

Oh and Sepi…. The line was much longer at Supabarn and the staff were alot ruder to me when I wanted cash out in specific notes; where Woolworths didn’t mind.

el said :

So if I buy the Woolies branded stuff, does my money stay in Canberra?

Well, lets compare buying something from Woolies or the local IGA:

Wholesale cost of the item goes to the distributor/manufacturer in both cases.

Distribution costs (trucks, drivers, fuel etc) both go out of the local area.

Rent for the premises goes to the landlord in both cases. This may or may not be a local landlord in both cases.

Wages for staff stay in the local area in both cases.

Television and newspaper advertising costs go to the same out of town media owners in both cases. (IGA owners have to pay a marketing levy to Metcash)

Electricity and water charges go to the same local authority in both cases.

Taxes go to the same governments in both cases.

And what’s left over is profit which goes to the owners of the business. For Woolies this will be predominately out of the local area, however Woolworths’ profit margin on groceries is in the order of 2.7%.

So it doesn’t make that much difference whether you buy an item at Woolies or IGA. In any case, the owner of the local IGA only has to buy a new car or take a holiday and that money disappears out of the local economy anyway.

imhotep said :

You cannot argue that the Woolies/Coles duopoly is a free market at work. A free market exists when other players are free to enter the market. I suggest that we have reached a stage where it is too expensive for new players to seriously compete.

Aldi doesn’t seem to be having any trouble.

ant said :

And they’ll stock them all year round! apples are in season NOW. In fact, Fuji, Granny Smith and Pink Lady won’t be ripe until a few weeks away. Yet woollies stock them all year round. If you eating those apples now, they’re most likely “birthday apples”, in storage for a year. They train their customers to get what they’re given.

Then explain the regular Woolies fruit and veg newspaper ads that talk about what fruit is currently in season and where it is sourced from.

Woolies don’t need to train their customers to be stupid – many of them are born that way.

GnT said :

“They only want standard fruit in standard sizes – eg Granny smith and red delicious apples, in large-medium with no flaws”

What a load of rubbish. Woolies offer Granny Smith, Red Del, Golden Del, Royal Gala, Fuji, Pink Lady, Jonagold. They are a business, and will offer what consumers want to buy. So will your local fruit and veg shop – if customers aren’t buying premium varieties, they will not continue to stock them.

And they’ll stock them all year round! apples are in season NOW. In fact, Fuji, Granny Smith and Pink Lady won’t be ripe until a few weeks away. Yet woollies stock them all year round. If you eating those apples now, they’re most likely “birthday apples”, in storeage for a year. They train their customers to get what they’re given.

We find many customers come and want just a kilo of apples. Fresh apples will keep in a cool place for months, but they’ve been trained to expect days. So they buy a kilo, and hten come back a week later, wanting more. But there’s no more, they’re finished. Everyone else got them. And the people can’t understand why. You can point them to the tree, show them the apples, explain seasons, ripening, the whole bit, but they’ve been trained by Woollies to expect those apples when they want them. Pity they taste like dry ashes.

Woolies don’t give people what they want: Woolies (and their ilk) provide stuff, and you buy. They aren’t ruled by what their customers want.

to be honest smackbang no i havent, but i’d think my comments would still hold; most of those new lines would be replacing coles old in house brands with their new you’ll love coles branding(woolies has done the same with a lot of their in house lines aswell)

And @tom-tom, have you been into a Coles recently? I don’t know how you can suggest that house brands are receding when “You’ll Love Coles” seems to be taking over the shelves, and Coles has recently reported itself on the increasing number of product lines it stocks in house brands.

My last post was obviously before illyria’s. If you’re right illyria, then fair enough. But I double dare you to take a blind taste test (this is becoming like the Pepsi challenge!). I’d be surprised if Woolworths milk was consistently worse-tasting than the other milks. Where are they sourcing all these bad tasting cows from?! And why is Woolworths milk clearly so popular? It mustn’t bother most people…

@el; the answer to your question is never, in house lines were supposed to be the next big thing, they are huge in britain and the US apprently but they never really took off here, (with the exception of the basics like flour, sugar etc)in fact there is significantly less shelf space allocated to in house lines than there was a year or even six months ago (and guessing from the way many of the remaining lines sell there will be even less in the future), customers voted with their wallets, simple as that.

“My original point (now possibly lost) is this – how long before Woolworths has their brand stamped on every product in the store, at a price that undercuts all of the opposition?”

Don’t they already do that? And why is it such a bad thing anyway?

The difference is that for some (most) products, there is a difference in quality between the generic brand product (eg. Home Brand cola and Coke, or Home Brand bog roll and Sorbent) but with basic milk (I’m talking full-fat or light milk, none of those other ‘ultra-calcium’, ‘high protein’ fancy milks) there is simply no difference between Woolworths brand and Canberra Milk/Pura/Aldi/Home Brand or whatever.

So if you choose to pay more for it because “your money stays in Canberra” then good for you (although, as you’ve pointed out yourself, you were actually wrong about that with Shape). I myself choose to save the money. My aim when buying milk is to have something to put in my cereal/on my coffee, not to keep some former Canberra monopoly afloat. Sue me.

Even accepting that “the money stays in Canberra” argument for Canberra Milk (which I think is spurious), the question still stands, in relation to other brands of basic milk (eg. Pura) – why do people buy it? Why are there multiple brands of basic milk available?

Smackbang, you are clearly not a glass of milk drinker. There is an obvious taste difference between Canberra Milk, Dairy Farmers, Woolies and Coles. (I am speaking of the full cream variety consumed by my family of milk guzzlers).

I dare you to do a taste test.

Coles brand isn’t too bad but the Woolies variety is not acceptable to me or my fussy kids.

They might all be cows, but they are not all the same cows on the same pasture and therefore it is not the same milk.

Bugger me, turns out Shape is made by Dairy Farmers. Apologies.

My original point (now possibly lost) is this – how long before Woolworths has their brand stamped on every product in the store, at a price that undercuts all of the opposition?

Oh, and I generally prefer to buy ‘Shape’ milk cause that’s what I’m used to, Mr Superior.

(arseclown)

So if I buy the Woolies branded stuff, does my money stay in Canberra?

That’s a serious question by the way, feel free to continue trying to ‘point score’.

“Just to side-track slightly, am I the only one that’s noticed less and less shelf space being made available for milk other than Woolworths branded shïte?”

I’ve often wondered who the people are who choose to pay a premium for non-Woolworths brand basic milk, when it all comes from the same cows, and is the one product where there is strictly no difference between generic and branded products.

Looks like I’ve found one of them.

..”And show me a business where this doesn’t apply”

It doesn’t apply at my local IGA for instance. (In a previous life I was a merchandiser)

“Coles is an excellent counter example of this. They failed to keep the customer satisfied, lost market share and suffered lower profits as a result, and were bought out by another company.”

But the market share they lost went largely to Woolies.

You cannot argue that the Woolies/Coles duopoly is a free market at work. A free market exists when other players are free to enter the market. I suggest that we have reached a stage where it is too expensive for new players to seriously compete.

imhotep said :

it is THEY who dictate terms to their suppliers about what they will stock, the price and where it will be in the store.

And show me a business where this doesn’t apply.

imhotep said :

If the home brand is a comparable product then it doesn’t matter what the ‘consumer’ wants.

Home Brand or generics is an interesting topic. Basically large manufacturers use branding as a way of differentiating their product to allow them to charge higher prices because consumers are willing to pay more for their favorite brand. Generics not only take away the ability to charge a brand name premium but also allow multiple smaller manufacturers to supply products where they wouldn’t otherwise be able to compete against the big brand names. So I would suggest that it is hypocritical to complain about Woolworths charging higher prices and also rejecting Home Brand products.

imhotep said :

They (Woolies and Coles) ARE a business. But their business is profit, not customer satisfaction. If you have this share of the market you pretty much don’t have to care about the customer.

I would suggest that Coles is an excellent counter example of this. They failed to keep the customer satisfied, lost market share and suffered lower profits as a result, and were bought out by another company.

Coles seem to be trying to brand everything as Coles brand. The only tuna you can get there now is coles tuna.

Maybe Woolies is going that way too.

“What a load of rubbish…. They Woolies are a business, and will offer what consumers want to buy.”

Er, not true. There are several ways the majors manipulate what you buy. For example, it is THEY who dictate terms to their suppliers about what they will stock, the price and where it will be in the store. If the home brand is a comparable product then it doesn’t matter what the ‘consumer’ wants.

They (Woolies and Coles) ARE a business. But their business is profit, not customer satisfaction. If you have this share of the market you pretty much don’t have to care about the customer.

I’d pay that 95c to not have to wait for 15 minutes in the queue At woolies.

And I wouldn’t ever buy a single one of those items anyway. That’s not food – that’s movei snacks.

Just to side-track slightly, am I the only one that’s noticed less and less shelf space being made available for milk other than Woolworths branded shïte?

madman said :

Prove me wrong. Go to supabarn and buy a pack small pack of smiths chips(plain), 600ml coke and a pack of malteasers. Then go to wooworths and buy the identical products and compare the reciepts and show us the findings.

Did anyone take up my offer? Or are you shocked with the results? I’ll show you my findings.

Supabarn – Civic:
Coca Cola 600ml – $2.95
Mars Maltesers 165gm – $4.38
Smiths Crinkle Original 100gm – $1.99
Total = $9.32

Woolworths – Lanyon
Coca Cola 600ml – $2.95
Maltesers 165gm – $4.23
Smiths Chops Original 100gm – $1.19
Total = $8.37
Woolworths Saving = $0.95

So you can’t always say the independants are cheaper.

“They only want standard fruit in standard sizes – eg Granny smith and red delicious apples, in large-medium with no flaws”

What a load of rubbish. Woolies offer Granny Smith, Red Del, Golden Del, Royal Gala, Fuji, Pink Lady, Jonagold. They are a business, and will offer what consumers want to buy. So will your local fruit and veg shop – if customers aren’t buying premium varieties, they will not continue to stock them.

Monopolies are not good for consumers.

In the US a huge hardware chain set up near small family hardware shops and undercut all their prices til teh small shops went broke, then when they had a monopoly, they put their prices up sky high and customers had nowhere else to go.

And a monopoly on fruit and veg (such as the Woolies/Coles stranglehold) is bad for variety in fruit and veg. They only want standard fruit in standard sizes – eg Granny smith and red delicious apples, in large-medium with no flaws. So farmers stick to growing those, and other varieties die out.

IF you’re on the breadline, or woolies is right next door, then fine shop there. But otherwise – consider supporting a smaller business, where the profits stay in Canberra.

Just to make a point people… it’s “Karabar” not “Karabah”

Oh forgot to mention I made a boo boo in post #48. I meant Wollies brought the IGA at Charnwood a fee years ago not Kippax. The brough Kippax about 10 years ago. The ironic thing is I seem to recall the name of the Supermarket at Kippax before it went into Wollies hands was Superbarn. One of the originals Superbarns.

illyria, what happened in Charnwood is exactly the same as what is happening in QBN so the comparision is quite valid, probably more so than comparing it to Erindale or any other part in Canberra. The market models and demographics are more or less the same. Wollies buying Charnwood has not effected any other local business more than the IGA that was there before did. Since changing to Wollies one small supermarket (well actully converniance store) has changed to being a grog shop, but that is it.

Bottom line is yes there is ONE dominate player, but it is certainly no a monopoly. In West Belconnen there is compeition from other big players (coles), as well as minor players (the little supermarkets at Holt, Higgins?, Florey etc) as well as that horrible (IMO) Aldi place.

People talk about fair and free competition on one hand yet when a business such as Wollies wants to do something we want them restricted. They are mutualy exclusive. QBN will be no different, there will still be choice, so what are youse all complaining about. Let the market make the decision not the regulators.

Felix, I said “farmer’s markets”, not the fruit and veg markets at Belco and Fyshwick which are about the same price as the supermarkets, except late Sunday arvo when they flog eveything off cheap.

I’m talking about the farmer’s markets on Saturday morning at EPIC, and later in the weekend at Woden and Qbyn. They are much cheaper, often better quality, and most of the food comes from the local region which reduces the food miles. Not only that, but the farmers don’t get screwed to the wall like the big supermarkets do to their suppliers. They can sell cheap because they get the entire price, not the middle man or the shareholders.

Incidentally, some local farmers have opened a store at the North Lyneham shops.

JC your apathy is unbelievable. I think you could have just posted “Who gives a shit either way” and saved yourself a few minutes of typing.

And when did Charnwood become the model for anything.

These are not situations that anybody should be happy with , and what is happening at Charnwood etc. is definitely not what we as retail customers should be aspiring to.

“Good enough” is not good enough.

A few years back Wollies brought the IGA at Kippax, creating what seems like the same situtation as is going to happen in QBN. In fact it is so much like it. 3 Wollies within a close area (Belconnen, Kippax and Charnwood), an Aldi, but 2 coles (Belco and Jamo)

But you know what the world hasn’t come to an end, the Wollies at Charnie still provides for the same market as the old IGA which is a quick stop for people to shop after work rather than big trolley loads. I imagine Karabah will be the same.

Is Charnwood any better for having Wollies, no, is it any worse off, no. Will Karabah and QBN be any different, no.

Crikey said :

Due to the duopoly Coles and Woolies can charge what they want. Even blind Freddy knows that because of the duopoly prices have grown far above inflation over the past few years.

So the consumers are complaining Woolies & Coles are pricing too high and the independent supermarkets (who actually aren’t all that independent) are complaining Woolies & Coles are pricing too low.

And I think there might have been something called a drought which had a bit of an impact here.

ant said :

Yes, but when the IGA and co are gone, and only Coles and Woolies remain, or any duopoly, watch the prices go up.

But if Coles & Woolies raise their prices excessively then it will be viable for competitors to enter the market again. And before you argue that it would be too difficult for a competitor to get access to sites, suppliers etc I’d point out that Aldi have done just that.

As a few posts have pointed out, no one is forcing you to shop at Woolworths or Coles. If they have managed to get 90% of the market it is because they are delivering what shoppers want.

RuffnReady said :

As I understand the story, the Karabar owners offered the store to Woolworths months ago and Woolies declined to buy it.

Must be an echo in here…

RuffnReady said :

The moment Supabarn stepped up to the plate Woolworths couldn’t buy it fast enough. If that, and the almost complete capture of the Qbyn market by Woolies, isn’t anti-competitive behaviour, what is???

RuffnReady said :

Maybe. Supabarn could of made a better counter offer if they really wanted the site.

RuffnReady said :

Unfortunately, the ACCC and most other regulators in this country are toothless tigers who admit they can’t do a thing about anti-competitive behaviour. Regulation in Australia, beset as we are with oligopoly markets, is a SHAM.

No argument here.

RuffnReady said :

As for Woolworths, they price differentially depending on the store, not according to the cost of getting the goods to the shelf. And they are completely unresponsive to customers. I talked to the “manager” of Dickson Woolies about Logan farms corn kernels which have recently disappeared from the store. He told me that other people had asked about it too. When I asked him whether he could do something about getting them back, like contacting his superiors, he shrugged his shoulders and intimated that it wasn’t his job or his problem. What is then???

The decision of what to stock and what not to stock is probably controlled by Woolies head office, out of the hands of a lowly store manager.

RuffnReady said :

Vote with your $, I say. The fruit and veg at the farmers markets is half the price and better quality. IGA often has specials that are cheaper than Woolies for some things I buy, so I get them there instead.

Fruit and veg is not always cheaper at fruit markets. A small bag of carrots is about $1.50 from Woolies/Coles, I was down at the Belconnen fruit market the other week and the price was about the same. Could of even been cheaper at Woolies. IGA have cheaper Canberra Milk than Woolies but Woolies own brand of milk is a fair bit cheaper.

RuffnReady said :

Screw these big corporations – they are not looking out for anyone but their shareholders, as is their responsibility in our absurd economic system.

Yep. Society is all about the almighty dollar these days.

The argument keeps coming back to the local grocers v the big corporations, but what about the people who give their custom to the supermarket?

Price is clearly the biggest factor, but what about choice, convenience (some people want the closest supermarket to run up and grab a few things, rather than driving 5 more minutes into Queanbeyan, having parking issues etc) and all the little things you get from the independents, like ordering in items for you or carrying your groceries to the car when you have three little kids in tow. My local IGA do this for me and that is why I always go back there.

I think it is a real shame that South Queanbeyan people have been gypped out of a Wanniassa style Supabarn.

Of course, Crikey, I have no reason to believe that your comment about Woolworths opening in Kingston is anything but pure speculation. You’ve raised it in other threads too, but without citing anything to make your comment credible.

VYBerlinaV8 you must have a very big pay packet it you haven’t noted that prices have sky-rocket in recent years.

Over the past few years I have begun buying different foods, and focussing on fresh foods that are in season. Keeps costs under control without a problem.

That said, my pay packet is sufficient that I wouldn’t bother unless I was a cheap prick (which I am). That way I can keep being that evil property investor stopping everyone from getting their new plasma screen TVs.

Ticboom…just remember where you read it first….another scoop for RiotACT.

As per above – I missed an ending of the quote and my actual comment to the quote was:

Guess what?! Don’t go back to woolworths then. I more then certain they’ll survive without being a customer…

Go get your fruit and veg from the markets go get your other stuff from iga/supabarn if you want to save a few extra cents and go get the rest from woolies – but if you’re going to be anti woolies THEN DON’T SHOP THERE. No one is forcing you to shop there (then maybe you can think your doing the little grocers some good too – key word ‘think’)

RuffnReady said :

Unfortunately, the ACCC and most other regulators in this country are toothless tigers who admit they can’t do a thing about anti-competitive behaviour. Regulation in Australia, beset as we are with oligopoly markets, is a SHAM.

Yep. Look at the NSW skifields. Public national park locked up by two big operators, who price in lockstep with each other. There used to be four separate companies: Thredbo, Perisher/Smiggins, Blue Cow and Guthega. Perisher was allowed to snap up Blue Cow/Guthega, and then there was two. So much for competition regulation.

LOL

RuffnReady said :

Screw these big corporations – they are not looking out for anyone but their shareholders, as is their responsibility in our absurd economic system.[/quote>

Guess what?! Don’t go back to woolworths then. I more then certain they’ll survive without being a customer…

Go get your fruit and veg from the markets go get your other stuff from iga/supabarn if you want to save a few extra cents and go get the rest from woolies – but if you’re going to be anti woolies THEN DON’T SHOP THERE. No one is forcing you to shop there (then maybe you can think your doing the little grocers some good too – key word ‘think’)

PS Re the comment about our “absurd economic system” – I am not a Bolshie, I believe in triple bottom line accounting, environmental, economic and social. Right now all the sytem takes account of is the bottom line, and that means that a vast majority of the population is excluded from the decisions that determine the shape of our world.

As I understand the story, the Karabar owners offered the store to Woolworths months ago and Woolies declined to buy it. The moment Supabarn stepped up to the plate Woolworths couldn’t buy it fast enough. If that, and the almost complete capture of the Qbyn market by Woolies, isn’t anti-competitive behaviour, what is???

Unfortunately, the ACCC and most other regulators in this country are toothless tigers who admit they can’t do a thing about anti-competitive behaviour. Regulation in Australia, beset as we are with oligopoly markets, is a SHAM.

As for Woolworths, they price differentially depending on the store, not according to the cost of getting the goods to the shelf. And they are completely unresponsive to customers. I talked to the “manager” of Dickson Woolies about Logan farms corn kernels which have recently disappeared from the store. He told me that other people had asked about it too. When I asked him whether he could do something about getting them back, like contacting his superiors, he shrugged his shoulders and intimated that it wasn’t his job or his problem. What is then???

Vote with your $, I say. The fruit and veg at the farmers markets is half the price and better quality. IGA often has specials that are cheaper than Woolies for some things I buy, so I get them there instead.

Screw these big corporations – they are not looking out for anyone but their shareholders, as is their responsibility in our absurd economic system.

this kind of story annoys me, woolies valued the site more highly than IGA so they paid more for it simple as that. i can’t wrap my head around the bleating of the small grocers about this sort of thing, why should the big supermarkets not be allowed to compete with small grocers like any other buisness? more people shop there for the simple reason they do things better, and due to economies of scale, cheaper. in my opinion if small grocers want more custom then they should pick up their game and stop hoping that the big supermarkets dont have to compete on a level playing field. competition works both ways.
@imhotep; woolies attempts to use full time staff whenever possible and in my experience actively seeks to move people from casual or part time to full time, the reason you mostly see young kids working is probably due to the times you go shopping (i’d guess between 4 and 8 on weeknights and on weekends; go in midday during the week and you’d see mostly full timers)

“Yes, but when the IGA and co are gone, and only Coles and Woolies remain, or any duopoly, watch the prices go up.”

But Woolworths are the “Friendly Fresh Food People” – they’d never do anything to hurt us.

tickboom said :

A question for you, Crikey: where does this suggestion that Woollies is building a supermarket on the carpark at Kingston come from? Where did you hear of that proposal? It’s news to me.

Yeah and isn’t there a woolworths within stones throw – Manuka?

“I could have my geographicals wrong”

It’s a bummer if it’s true. That carpark is vital, and the little supermarket at Kingston is a good one, lots of interesting stuff and some of their things are cheaper than at the “bigs”! Also they stock things that the bigs no longer have, like Raid anti mossie tabs that last a month.

A question for you, Crikey: where does this suggestion that Woollies is building a supermarket on the carpark at Kingston come from? Where did you hear of that proposal? It’s news to me.

Yes, but when the IGA and co are gone, and only Coles and Woolies remain, or any duopoly, watch the prices go up.

VYBerlinaV8, you’re too right! It’s exactly what I was pointing out originally.

Also have you seen the size of America compared to Australia? Obviously Walmart is still on there way to rising higher with the stats.

And how is Woolworths any more expensive then IGA or Supabarn? Compare apples with apples!
Woolworths wouldn’t be charging $4 for a 2ltr coke while IGA is charging $1.80 for the same product – That’s unrealistic. Of course there are some small shortfalls but you will also save from other products in the shop.

Prove me wrong. Go to supabarn and buy a pack small pack of smiths chips(plain), 600ml coke and a pack of malteasers. Then go to wooworths and buy the identical products and compare the reciepts and show us the findings.

My local supermarket is Coles Jamison. I buy everything there. I would love to support small locally owned businesses, but at Coles the opening hours are convenient, I can buy everything in one shop, the variety and quality is fine for my needs and, especially since Aldi and the fruit and veg shop opened, the prices are reasonable. Why would I go anywhere else?

Competition is working fine. I choose the supermarket that can provide what I need.

This is not a good thing. The main Woolies, in the CBD, recently completed a big renovation. What they also have now is massive lines. Used to be the Coles was shocking for lines, but the new Woolies is actually worse.

I emailed Woolworths to complain about this, and copped a call from the manager of that store, and nothing has changed. I refuse to shop there now. Aldi Qbn isn’t really a valid alternative, too many things not stocked, and teh lines can be outrageous… the hours aren’t very convenient either. so it’s back to Coles, and Mother Nature’s Deli in the Quean B centre.

It’s a shame there aren’t more Supa Barns. The one in Wanniassa is brilliant.

Crikey it’s a bit rich to complain about the duopoly at the same time as stating you won’t shop at Aldi.

A market is simply the sum of its participants’ actions. Your personal actions are preserving the status quo.

So it’s pretty hard to see how you lay the blame at the feet of governments. Which of their failings is it that prevents you from shopping at Aldi in support of greater competition?

Chaps… I am soooo glad I live within cooee of Canberra City, which makes my local supermarket Supabarn. If I had to shop at Woolies in Dickson with all the middle class people ( I used to have to do that when I lived further out you see, some lower to middle class suburb sharing a name with a former foreign affairs minister if you must know) I think I would die. Lower class people crowding the aisles and making me wait at the checkout… my skin crawls just thinking about it. That’s why I like Supabarn in the city, the higher prices and more lines unattractive to bogan tastes mean that I can usually enjoy my shopping umolested by too many of the more common people.

I can’t imagine a better place to put a bogan supermarket than Karabar actually…

VYBerlinaV8 you must have a very big pay packet it you haven’t noted that prices have sky-rocket in recent years. Due to the duopoly Coles and Woolies can charge what they want. Even blind Freddy knows that because of the duopoly prices have grown far above inflation over the past few years.

Even Wal-Mart, the world’s largest supermarket chain, only has around 25% of the market in the US. I understand that Coles and Woolies have 90% of the market.

But VYBerlinaV8 as long as you are ok – we’re all ok.

…and what’s wrong with the Kingston servo becoming a Woolies branded servo? It couldn’t be any worse/dearer than the servo that’s currently there.

I’m not sure why everyone is getting so concerned here. Having lots of Woolies around mean that there’s plenty of jobs for teenagerss and folks who want part time work, and the quality of store and product seems to be maintained at an adequate level. Besides, if you want to shop somewhere else, get in your car and drive for a few minutes.

Woolies is my local and I reckon they’re fine.

Not good that Woolies has such a monopoly in Queanbeyan. Governments (State and Federal) are too scared or impotent to act. I don’t like Aldi but am happy to shop at a good IGA etc.

Woolies plan to open at Kingston on the carpark near the servo – I guss the servo will become a Woolies outlet as well 🙁

“And at the same time Woolies is about to lose its grip on Weston Creek with Aldi moving in (eventually…)”

Yeahhh but that’s what they predicted when ALDI came to the Lanyon Valley and there was a big uproar about how it will put Woolies out of business, and you know what… Both companies are doing excellent. Most families go into ALDI and buy what is on offer there and then go to woolworths and buy what they couldn’t from ALDI and all the rest of the groceries – Win Win situation.

have not bought shares, but have hung around the frozen food section in the hope of pickin’ up. I read somewhere that worked, especially for those of us who could not afford to shop at Foodworks, or to buy a barrel of oil. Was thinking of buying a cheap where-are-you-going gismo at Aldi this morning, but 100 old people rushed in before me at 0900 and ten seconds and beat me to it. Chers … now there is something I could buy into.

so buy some shares in Woolies

Take the monopoly game off Woolies I say … go shop at Foodworks and IGA … hope you all get a pay rise first. And don’t forget to tear up all leftover Dockets so you can choose freely to pay 4c more a litre for petrol. Just love a free world. Ooops; forgot about the stock market that actually controls our world of free choice.

And at the same time Woolies is about to lose its grip on Weston Creek with Aldi moving in (eventually…)

Since the Karabar Supabarn is my local and closest supermarket I must say it is shit. The staff are ok, but the food is normally out of date and the range is crap. As it is I go into Queanbeyan to go to Coles or Woolies anyway, so I just means I won’t have to drive as far to get quality groceries.

I would have been happier if the Supabarn there was actually owned by Supabarn and operated like Wanniassa. That is a nice store.

totall guzumped, god forbid anyone who places a higher bid for something someone wants to buy.

I also don’t see the monopoly, the nearest competition of an aldi and coles is what? a three to five minute drive away? If you don’t want to shop at woolworths, i’m sure you’re capble of driving a bit further. Plus if supabarn get to buy it, there is absolutely no indication that it would promote any extra competition besides the alternative range.

I couldn’t believe that the supabarn there is in the same state it was in the last time I went there, some 10 to 12 years ago, anything would probably help it!

I was listening to John Cummings, chairman of the National Association of Retail Grocers Australia speaking at the National Press Club a couple of weeks back. He was making some illogical argument that Woolworths and Coles should be regulated because he had to lower his prices to compete with them yet they were somehow then responsible for grocery price inflation which had outstripped the CPI.

As for Woolworths having a monopoly of home delivery, get real. The home delivery business has no entry barriers to competition what so ever – all you need is a web site and a truck. If the independents can’t get in on that market they are in the wrong game.

I afraid that with the ACCC inquiry currently in town, all the lobbyists have come out of the woodwork having smelled a rent seeking opportunity.

I used to joke about shopping at Aldi. But I’d shop there for many items, if only there was one nearby.

IF ONLY THERE WAS ONE NEARBY!

The big supermarkets try to employ as many casuals as possible, I don’t know about Supabarn but Woolworths couldn’t employ less permanent staff, otherwise their managers would be casual. Woolworths wouldn’t pay that much better than Supabarn otherwise with all the staff shortages no one would work at Supabarn anymore, they’d all be at Woolworths.

As far as the local economy goes, presumably if they are buying the same sort of stuff, at similar wholesale prices and you can account mostly for the higher prices at Supabarn to higher wage costs; Supabarn would win because wages stay in the local economy and large amounts of the profits would also be spent locally as the owner lives here and not diluted across many Woolworths shareholders.

I’d like to know what they’re planning with the mall. The Coles service station closed down recently and apparently it’s for a mall redevelopment.

Could it be another Marketplace springing up?

There was an article about this in the latest Chronicle. Supposedly the Karabar supermarket was offered to Woolies and they said they weren’t interested, so it was offered to Supabarn and a price was negotiated and contracts were drawn up but then the deal went cold and all of a sudden Woolies had snuck in a better offer. This is just the side of the story put forward by Eric Koundouris of course, Woolies may have a completely different version….
Also, according to the Chronicle article Supabarn have ambitions of being Australia’s third biggest supermarket chain.

I go to the Supabarn at Karabar regularly and I’m happy with the service, prices and products.

F**k Woolworths

“Woolworths has a higher fulltime staff rate as a grocer hence being more sustainable.”

Oh really? Where are they all? At my local Woolies, all I ever see are bored (and I presume part-time) teenagers. And isn’t Supabarn a grocer?

There is good reason to support good independent retailers like Supabarn. Woolworths and Coles already abuse their near-monopoly position. The community continues to lose out in the interest of their shareholders, and the Government (and the ACCC) has never been interested in anything other than ‘looking into it’.

Nah….
I’m just in the Employment Industry

Why would all the Supabarn staff be casual or part-time? I am not their recruitment officer but I imagine that they are like any other small to medium business and they have mostly full timers during normal business hours. Have you been to Supabarn lately? They are not exactly your ma and pa corner store.

And what makes you think Woolies are community minded?

The Koundouris family are Canberra based and donate a whopping amount to local charities. (There was an article in the City News to this effect last year).

Anyway, this is about groceries, the cost of the groceries and availability and choice in a large suburban catchment area.

Madman, are you a Woolies Stoolie???

Yeah but what I was saying was – aren’t all the people at supabarn casual or part-time staff – with a managers being fulltime? Woolworths has a higher fulltime staff rate as a grocer hence being more sustainable. You can train to be a manager or do a traineeship in retail and get an educational outcome from it aswell as an employment outcome. Wouldn’t see Supabarn turning into a RTO and taking on trainees at the amount woolies does. Plus would it be fair to throw the question in to this – Doesn’t Woolworths give more back to the community rather then small grocer chains?

Economically would be the winner.

Sorry Sammy, Wanniassa Shops, which is very close to Erindale. My mistake but not really relevent to the whole Monopoly in Queanbeyan thing.

Personally, I would go with ironic rather than freudian.

Supabarn has much higher staffing levels, which is why you don’t have to wait so long at the check-outs.

Massive monopolies are not good for anyone except the millionaires at the top.

The Supabarn is actually at Wanniassa.

Erindale is a Woolworths. How freudian.

Hmmmm…

Looking on the good side, with woolies taking over it will develop more sustainable jobs then that of a smaller chain. More room for the employees to move around the managerial chain, probably better pay and conditions too and I would belive there more cultarally aware and diverse in employment.

Might spruse up the Karabar Labour Market and get some more people off the dole and into work.