ACT Budget 06: schools shakeup

Some schools have only 120 students. That has to be an incredibly inefficient way to deliver education. Having a school with only that many students is unjustifiable in a city of 350 000 people, may be you could get away with thta in the bush.

hmm, so it is just a proposal… the FAQ makes it pretty clear that the hit list isn’t final. I wouldn’t be surprised if it shrinks before the end of the year.

Nyssa, the schools that are amalgamating are separate to the 39 closing down.

Have a look at the link Pandy posted. The ‘Towards 2020’ pdf is the document I was working off yesterday.

The privates do more with less.

Bullshit, they also charge the parents, some get money from churches and they can turn away students who will be more expensive to teach. Kids in non-government schools get and averadge of $2000 spent on their education and that’s not incuding the smaller population of special needs and disadvantaged students who use a lot of funding where ever they are.

I work in a schools grants programme. We give out tens and tens of millions to State government schools, we also give out money, but much less to non government schools.

Well bully for you, that’s not the case across the system. The feds give twice as much to the private system as they do to the public despite the fact that there are only half as many students in the non-government sector.

Here is somewhere to get some facts.
http://www.aeufederal.org.au/Debates/schoolscampaign.html granted it’s a highly subjective source but the numbers themselves are pretty straight forward.

Private schools get some kind of per-head funding from gov’t, but it’s very much smaller than the per-head cost per kid at public schools. That’s one of the many reasons why gov’t likes private schools: they are very efficient. Also, the parents of the kids who attend them are taxpayers.

Those who like to indulge in populist, wedge politics (us vs them) will pretend that vast amounts of tax money is poured into these rich priviledged schools. In fact, vastly more goes into the public school system. The privates do more with less.

Private schools are not funded by the Commonwealth government. They are not funded by any government. That is why they are called ‘private’ schools.

HAHAAH

Non-government schools get heaps of cash from all levels of government (but mainly the feds), that’s what the ALP hit list was about last election, if they weren’t getting serious cash there wouldn’t have been the uproar.

They aren’t real reasons, just a cover up because the Govt doesn’t give a shit about public education and now has the reason to close schools to tell the land to developers.

They don’t care about the communities involved.

Note that consultation is coming AFTER the decision to close has been made.

Arseholes.

I think education policy had been a weak point for this government but not due to a lack of good intentions. I know Katy’s daughter goes to a public schools and pretty sure other kids of MLAs do. I don’t there’s ever been an ministerial education advisor who had worked in a school though, and that’s a part of the problem.

If they’d come out saying “we want to close 40 schools in 3 years, but we don’t know which ones and we’ll determine it though community consultation, the first by the end of the year” would that have been better? They would have been accused of having no plan and no ideas. nyssa76 you yourself said that you didn’t think they’d close all the schools named, so there will be consultation and I’m guessing that plans will change, hopefully to something fairer and less severe.

I remember they did something like this in Victoria, Melbourne specifically, back in the mid 90s. They took schools and consolidated them into campuses of one “super-school” all around the place. This enabled them to have one admin unit rather than admin for each school. Seems big schools are more efficient to run than smaller ones.

>>They had the opportunity to assist in stopping the tide to Non-Govt and ignored it.

Agreed. If they wanted to stem the tide, they could turn the government schools back into places of learning, rather than PC indoctrination centres.

Oddly (perhaps not?) it is advantages for a state/local government to run its schools badly – as that moves the funding burden to the Commonwealth (which funds the private schools)

They had the opportunity to assist in stopping the tide to Non-Govt and ignored it. Now they want to close schools because they didn’t do their job in the first place.

Besides, smaller schools can be beneficial for the children and their educational welfare is more important.

They aren’t real reasons, just a cover up because the Govt doesn’t give a shit about public education and now has the reason to close schools to tell the land to developers.

They don’t care about the communities involved.

Note that consultation is coming AFTER the decision to close has been made.

Arseholes.

School closures has been a political black hole ever since the start of self government. Every time the government (both sides of politics) talked of a small number of closures due to community pressure and minority government they did not proceed.

It has been a failing of all governments to manage and of the community to recognise that having schools as small as we have is financially unmanageable.

This government will blamed for attempting to fix a problem that no body else had the guts to go tackle. If you do not like the way that the Stanhope government works, simple do not vote for them.

All the reasons why schools will close are in this http://www.det.act.gov.au/2020/proposal.htm link.

Just came home for lunch and had to check the latess on this…

They plan on amalgamating several schools – 9 I think – out of the 39.

I don’t think you’ll get a lot of discussion now from the AEU re: teachers salaries. I think that they will look to extending the strike action.

I really want to know why some schools were picked. Some have higher numbers than others and some have higher numbers than those not on the list.

Please explain Mr. Barr.

I have been busy, and had avoided the budget for the last 18 or so hours… UNTIL NOW!

OMG!

Firstly, Those who have seen my posts in the pst may have believed that I was a bit of a stirer, I disagreed with all of the nonsense regarding the 3% vs 4% stuff.

For that I sincerely apologise.

Given that the government has now shown their hand, I find it outrageous that the Government should operate in the same way that the most unethical private industry companies I have worked for operated.

My advice to teachers:- Now that the Government has clearly indicated that they actually don’t care, I strongly encourage you to push them for at least 9%, with a work to rule until they comply.

Before I get flames indicating that Work To Rule is illegal, I am suggesting that you work as specified in the court decision that said that teachers were expected to put in extra effort to mark.. I dont have a pointer to the actual decision, but I am fairly confident that there would be a numeric quantity of hours that was specified. No more staying up till 11pm working on school stuff.

I think I might write a letter…

If the Govt wants to save money, don’t build the damn arboretum.

It looks like the arboretum has been basically shelved. There is “some” money in the budget for basic works, but it wouldn’t be much more than they have to spend just rejuvenating the area.

Agreed! But given that they have already sold off all the civic car parks to their developer mates, they’ve got to raise the money somehow

That was the Libs who sold section 84 to the QIC.

I’m not a massive fan of this Budget either, but lets keep it in perspective.

My wife works at Hall.

Fuckers!!!!

Many previouslely closed school buildings are used by community groups. I hope that remains the case. – Alothough units have been built on the oval of the old Woden Valley High.
I am still mystified by the Dickson College closure. Where will all those kids go? And several of the preschools which are closing are at full enrolment. It seems insane in the middle of a baby boom to close functional schools.

I think JB and haroldbeagle are spot on. Standard negotiation tactic – go in hard with your initial proposition with a more comfortable target actually in mind. Makes you look tough and able to make hard decisions, but then shows you in a nicer, more consultative light.

Having said that, a couple of questions occur to me. Do we have examples of previous school closures where the land has then been sold off to developers? And are we really so spoilt that we can’t see the rationale behind closing schools that have dramatically falling enrolments?

Maybe the schools that have been ear marked for closure were too far from fast food chains and car washes where the students would inevitably end up working. I think that the Government has done us a favour.

If I paid tax, I’d be pissed at the way Governments throw good money after bad on the public education system – the whole lot should be outsourced to McDonalds or Coles or one of the other beneficiaries of mass unskilled labour that are so reliant on graduates from the Government system.

I can’t believe they want to close all these schools in such a short timeframe. Is there a plan for transitioning all the affected kids into new schools? And I agree with Pandy – the arboretum will definitely be the Stanhope memorial.

I also think that their is a bit of double bluff involved. They will threaten to close down 40, and later when they reduce this to 20, they expect (hope) people will be relieved with the reprieve. Doubt it will work though – especially when people travel to a recently closed school (or to distant school as need be) for the next voting day

>>>>But what the hell! Imagine how much money they can rake in when the sell all that land for development!

Agreed! But given that they have already sold off all the civic car parks to their developer mates, they’ve got to raise the money somehow (but for what? It’s not like they’ve spent it on anything useful yet)

The Arboreteum will be called the John Stanhope Memorial.

Jey, it’s obvious that the community was never consulted. It’s obvious that people are going to lose their jobs and parents having to enrol their children in a new school further from home.

There is no reason why 39 schools have to be axed. If the Govt wants to save money, don’t build the damn arboreaum.

I know Andrew’s chief of staff type person.
He used to work at the UC Students’ Association and helped us secure Andrew to launch Pride Week.
I suspect we’d have to give a convincing spiel about why it’s important he engage with us.

This morning’s CT is reporting that 393 jobs will go and 1/2 will be school positions.

That’s one way to get around the teacher’s pay rise argument.

Yeah I do.

I worked in the Dept last year and there was already talk of schools closing down.

Well it’s the same education bureaucrats pushing the process, you don’t think Andrew Barr leapt into the Ministry with a plan to shut a third of the ACT’s schools do you?

The backlash could be that he loses his own seat.

So what’s the contingency plan? Which schools are going to take the students? Given that it is now June and some are closing in December, it would be nice to know.

I swear this has shades of GDHS all over it.

I am (depending on how preferences fall). I hope/feel they won’t close all these schools but even i they do it’s better than the libs. That being said I can see the ALP loosing a seat if this doesn’t go well and having to rely on the cross bench… ouch.

Andrew Barr has reamed his constituents good and proper.

Who is going to vote for Labor in 2 years?

johnboy, please do. I’d really like some justification for this and not the usual “media pandering” pollies give.

I think Andrew’s got bigger things on his mind at the moment, but we can always email his office and ask.

bubzie, it’s called “hit and run” – look at Ginninderra High.

I wonder what the teacher, parents and students of all those schools will have to say tomorrow…

johnboy, is there some way we can “arrange” for Andrew Barr to come on this site for a debate on this issue?

No. I think they will close at least 1/2 the schools mentioned.

Again, Dickson and Kambah aren’t the smallest and shouldn’t be closed if they are going on numbers.

All the current and past Ministers for Education and the Dept care about are Gold Creek and the new Amaroo school. They see them as the “shining light” of education.

If they could “afford” to put air conditioners in Amaroo, they could have done up a few schools that needed it.

So when is Andrew Barr getting on here? I’d love to debate him over this…and I think I am not the only one.

I’m just guessing here, but I wonder if they’re not trying to be clever here and guage the heat from all the possible closures, then do a howard and “bow to the will of the people” by not closing the ones that gather the most opposition.

the neat thing is if they tried to do it one by one they’d always face fierce opposition, but this way they can still close 3/4’s of the schools.

just a thought.

SHIT!!!! Oh my god!!! i’m actulary at kambah at the moment, (and yes our open night’s tomorrow..i get to help out there, how fun?) and anyway, we have no idea about it being closed next year.

Thats just waaay too many schools to close down. geez. thats like all the schools in kambah apart from one of the primary schools (for example)

Oh my god. I’ll be in like the second last class of year 10. wow. thats just..i now know what the kids at ginnidera high felt like.

I’d expect they’ll end up closing only a handful of those schools, backing away at 100 km/h from most once the public outcry gets going.

dickson was a great place to go, and they have just spent a shit load of money fixing it up.

Obviously they haven’t been to campbell for a while either, its not really that big.

plus think of the congestion on treloar cres from all those P platers (and the impending takeover of the war memorial carpark)

Dickson’s been a jewel in the crown of ACT education for a while now.

lots and lots of land surrounding it though.

I wonder will the kids with disabilities and the NESB kids from Dickson be taught at Campbell once it closes?
Dickson has awesome programs for both these groups…well they did…I hope they still do.

“In my view out schools should be palaces”
“out schools”

Your typo had me lost for a bit and I thought he was going to be queering our schools our something

Someone at Rivett had the bright idea that they should never have closed Holder schooll and all the little ones that now have to close surrounding that should go back there…

All well and good if you want your kids at a building which is literally falling apart.

But maybe they will start selling off the land for more housing which can bring in more families and leave them wondering where they should put all the kids that have come into those areas.

I know! More private schools.

I don’t think it is, and with ACT conference coming up…

And best of all the damage will mostly be done before the next election rolls around.

Well done Brendan with supporting four year terms.

Any of our Labor policy wonks want to remind us where this education policy of large consolidated schools was in the party platform?

Kambah High was having an open night tonight (if memory serves) re: enrolments of Yr 7’s for 2007.

Not really worth all the time and effort the teachers put into it now really.

Damn that’s a lot of schools. Maybe it’s a ploy to increase ACTION patronage 🙂

No talk of what would happen to the land and facilities. I’m not against closing schools, but this does seem very drastic.

What a joke!

I want the Minister to get on here and justify himself.

this is the entire list from abc website:

Schools to close at the end of 2006:

Chifley Preschool
Flynn Preschool
Flynn Primary School
Giralang Preschool
Giralang Primary School
Hackett Preschool
Hall Preschool
Hall Primary School
Macarthur Preschool
McKellar Preschool
Melrose Primary School
Mount Neighbour Preschool
Mount Neighbour Primary School
Reid Preschool
Rivett Preschool
Rivett Primary School
South Curtin Preschool
Tharwa Preschool
Tharwa Primary School
The Causeway Preschool
Weston Creek Preschool
Weston Creek Primary School

Schools to close at the end of 2007:

Cook Preschool
Cook Primary School
Gilmore Preschool
Gilmore Primary School
Kambah High School
Page Preschool
Village Creek Preschool
Village Creek Primary School

Schools to close at the end of 2008:

Dickson College
Higgins Preschool
Higgins Primary School
Holt Preschool
Holt Primary School
Isabella Plains Preschool
Isabella Plains Primary School
Melba Preschool
Mt Rogers Primary School

No, S-IEC has 24 and is separate in the census to Dickson.

nyssa76, does the Dickson figure include the S-IEC because most of them would be out of area and you’d think wouldn’t really mind where it was.

Plus, Kambah has 20 more than Kaleen’s 276, so why isn’t Kaleen closing?

Oops, include Hawker please.

Intersestingly the figures of the census are:

Dickson 558
Copeland 450
Lake Gin 580
Hawker 874

Now given that 3 are in Belconnen, wouldn’t it be more feasible to close one of those? (If they must close any at all)

And Hawker.

Schools closing

The Government is to close 22 preschools, 15 primary schools, one high school and one college over the next three years.

It says it has to reorganise the education system to better reflect Canberra’s demographic changes.

The schools to close include Cook, Hall and Rivett primary and preschools.

Dickson College and Kambah high schools will also close.

But the Government will give more money for school maintenance, and new schools will be built in Belconnen and Gungahlin.

A feasibility study is to be conducted into a combined college and CIT campus at Gungahlin.

Here’s the list from the abc website.

Yes, I am also interested to know why Dickson is closing as it has a larger student population than Copeland and is the only one in the inner north.

Copeland at least has Lake Ginninderra for competition.

Just heard that mut Nero Stanhope on radio. He said he was only doing what the Liberals should have done years ago. Well hello, when the Liberals under the Bearded-one tried to close a FEW schools they were crucified by the Labor Party. What a f***ing hypocrite!!!

nyssa76, here you and I agree. I’m a campbell alum as well and while I didn’t go to Dicko, it is the only college in the inner north.

I’m thinking that this hit list might be a bit flexible as the budget papers state:

In view of changing demographics and expectations, we have developed the Towards 2020: Renewing our Schools proposal, which in consultation with the community, will provide students now and into the future access to
quality public education delivered in appropriate and sustainable learning
environments.

Or they’re not and the budget it full of it, I guess we’ll see. They did scale back the West Belco school after consultation though.

The full list of schools is at ABC news.
I hope they keep someof the infrastructure going as childcare centres or something useful.

Areaman, you should be able to get a copy from the Dept of Ed. If not, try the Minister’s office.

I went to Dickson College and Campbell High. Campbell High use to be a 7-12 school – when it first opened.

It shouldn’t be made to be a 7-12 school again.

Nor should Dickson close. Hell, in the census this year, Dickson had a LARGER population than Copeland.

One question I have is where are they going to put all the students from those schools?

My second is where are they going to put all the teachers? Surely they aren’t betting on the baby boomers to retire in the next 2yrs are they?

If they’re closing Rivett primary, are the preschools and special units attatched also going?

Does anyone know where you can get a copy of education report naming the schools to shut and when, becuase it’s not at the ACT gov budget or DET sites.

I can’t get my head around why they are cutting so many primary schools…. are they improving public transport for these kids?

Yes – Katy G used to be a big advocate for the successful ACT college system.
I can’t understand shutting all these pre-schools either, when we are in the middle of a baby boom. won’t they just be scratching around looking for somewhere to put them again in about 3 years?

I’m not sure one way of the other about Dickson, but I don’t like the idea of a 7-12 school at Campbell. I always thought oen of the reasons we got better educational outcomes in Canberra was because of the college system, and who’s going to go there rather than a college except people can’t afford not to.

“schools should be palaces” eh?

Someone’s ripping his lines out of the West Wing.

AAP 39 schools closures which is a massive amount of infrastructure to throw down the drain.

I can’t believe they’re closing Dickson college.

Just think of all the school ovals we’re used to using that are going to be built over.

it’s a tragedy.