Ask RiotACT: Seeking good naturopath or homeopath

Point taken, although you did ask for people to ‘recommend’ someone who can provide Alternative Medicine treatments, and you were happy to defend acupuncture at least. Many contributors rushed to tell you that they wouldn’t recommend ANY of them, so that might tell you something.

To respond to your statement (not that you seem to have an open mind), the reason I defended acupuncture is because that was a traditional treatment used for 100s of years that western doctors attempted to discredit because there were no studies to back it up. But lo and behold, they did the studies and proved that it DOES work. My point being, just because the studies aren’t there yet, doesn’t mean that traditional therapies, that have been used by hundreds of years by different cultures, have no medical or intrinsic value. Far from it.

I am not surprised that having a bunch of you jump in here and attack me for my beliefs and practices has intimidated anyone else from offering a recommendation. But I ask you this–if no one believed in these treatments then exactly how could so many practitioners make a living?? Obviously your line of thinking is not the be all and end all, and I wonder if it’s possible that you don’t know everything about this?

I’m CERTAIN you have never tried naturopathy yourself. Am I wrong?

carnardly said :

ain’t nothing that will fix permanent hearing loss if you’ve taken ototoxic drugs. not dr time. not dr potion.

fix?

technology.

Exactly my point, you expect people to pump themselves full of drugs, and then get a hearing aid or surgery to fix the damage from the drugs. MY point was, if you had hearing damage from medication (which is more common than you think, as even aspirin can have ototoxic effects – look it up), maybe NEXT time after suffering from permanent hearing damage you will try a natural therapy first.

I did not claim that natural therapies reverse hearing loss, so please reread what I wrote. I said that hearing loss can be CAUSED by the drugs you guys cling to as the ONLY worthwhile medical treatments, when in fact drugs often CAUSE a lot of health problems, such as gut dysbiosis, hearing loss, etc.

Yep, “ototoxic medicines”. Google it! Long list! “There are more than 200 medications and chemicals that are known to cause hearing and balance problems.” http://www.asha.org/public/hearing/Ototoxic-Medications/

However, I see that being pumped full of drugs has not aided your reading comprehension.

I don’t care what you think, my husband is an extreme skeptic, and even he knows that homeopathy works!!! Ha! You guys are missing out.

Here’s something. Let’s say these therapies cure health problems or symptoms via placebo. Let’s just say that that’s the case. What’s wrong with that? Tricking the body into healing itself WITHOUT side effects, without toxic chemicals that have to be metabolized by the liver and filtered by the kidneys. Actually, if you think about this, this would be the most amazing and GENIUS medical treatment EVER. Using the power of the mind to heal the body, without any ill effects whatsoever.

And this is, just for the sake of argument, since you continue to insist that the only effects could be due to placebo. #proveit

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. After you pop your nasty pharmaceuticals, that is 😛

PlasticScene said :

From the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA)…this does NOT sound like a placebo effect

“For some conditions it is superior to standard treatments. “

You forgot to include what the authors said after that;
….”the differences between true and sham acupuncture are relatively modest, suggesting that factors in addition to the specific effects of needling are important contributors to therapeutic effects.”

There is an excellent deconstruction of this study over at Science-Based Medicine (link-below). And if you’ve found that paper you cite, you must have skipped all those which show no effect beyond placebo.

Acupuncture has been described as ‘theatrical placebo’ which is why an actual DOUBLE blinded study would be very interesting, but also why double blinding acupuncture is problematic (second link below). You claimed there were double blinded studies which ‘prove’ that acupuncture works. That is the point I picked you up on, which you either missed or ignored.

PlasticScene said :

…You guys have ignored my request. I did not post asking for a debate about naturopaths or natural treatments (including acupuncture, .

Point taken, although you did ask for people to ‘recommend’ someone who can provide Alternative Medicine treatments, and you were happy to defend acupuncture at least. Many contributors rushed to tell you that they wouldn’t recommend ANY of them, so that might tell you something.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/an-acupuncture-meta-analysis/
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0119612

From the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA)…this does NOT sound like a placebo effect

“For some conditions it is superior to standard treatments. http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1357513. “

You guys have ignored my request. I did not post asking for a debate about naturopaths or natural treatments (including acupuncture, which has double blind studies backing it up, which I have linked here). Why are you guys clinging to your beliefs? What are you so scared of? It’s no skin off your back if someone else believes in naturopathic treatments just the same way some people believe in Jesus Christ and some don’t.

Please, mind your own beeswax, respect MY beliefs, don’t just cherry-pick the quotes/studies/results that back YOUR argument. If you want to answer my question please do; if you want to start a debate with fellow closed minded people, please start your own thread.

PlasticScene said :

justin heywood said :

PlasticScene said :

Thank you, Justin. A voice of reason in a sea of negativity and misinformation. What are people afraid of?

Sorry mate. It was a satirical post. I thought my claim that BiG Pharma was suppressing the cure for ingrown toenails (onychocryptosis) might have tipped you off.

But:

PlasticScene said :

Until there were double blind studies proving that acupuncture WORKS, there was a campaign to discredit practitioners, who knew all along that their therapies were effective.

I am not aware that there are “double blinded studies that prove acupuncture works”. Do you have a link to these studies?

TOO easy. “A study released in the archives of internal medicine (10 sept 2012); reviewed 29 studies involving almost 18, 000 people; indicated that acupuncture was found better at pain relief than no treatment or sham treatment.”

Not a big journal at all…you know, just JAMA, one of the most esteemed medical journals in the world.

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1357513

This sounds like a placebo effect: https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/placebo-effect
It can have some effect, especially if the person believes it will work. Mind over matter, is an old fashioned term.

Quote, “The placebo effect is triggered by the person’s belief in the treatment and their expectation of feeling better, rather than the specific form the placebo takes.”

Quote, “How placebos work
The exact physiological mechanisms remain mysterious. Some of the theories that attempt to explain the placebo effect include:
Self-limiting disorders – many conditions, such as the common cold, are self-limiting. They will resolve by themselves anyway, with or without placebos or drugs, and the end of symptoms is merely coincidence.
Remission – the symptoms of some disorders, such as multiple sclerosis and lupus, may wax and wane. A remission during a course of placebos may be coincidence, and not due to the placebos at all.
A change in behaviour – the placebo may increase a person’s motivation to take better care of themselves. Improved diet, regular exercise or rest may be responsible for the easing of their symptoms.
Altered perception ? the person’s interpretation of their symptoms may change with the expectation of feeling better. For example, a sharp pain may be reinterpreted as an uncomfortable tingling.
Reduced anxiety ? taking the placebo and expecting to feel better may soothe the autonomic nervous system and reduce the levels of stress chemicals, such as adrenaline.
Brain chemicals – placebos may trigger the release of the body’s own natural painkillers, the brain chemicals (neurotransmitters) known as endorphins.
Altered brain state – research indicates that the brain responds to an imagined scene in much the same way as it responds to an actual visualised scene. A placebo may help the brain to remember a time before the onset of symptoms, and then bring about physiological change. This theory is called ‘remembered wellness’.’

justin heywood said :

PlasticScene said :

Thank you, Justin. A voice of reason in a sea of negativity and misinformation. What are people afraid of?

Sorry mate. It was a satirical post. I thought my claim that BiG Pharma was suppressing the cure for ingrown toenails (onychocryptosis) might have tipped you off.

But:

PlasticScene said :

Until there were double blind studies proving that acupuncture WORKS, there was a campaign to discredit practitioners, who knew all along that their therapies were effective.

I am not aware that there are “double blinded studies that prove acupuncture works”. Do you have a link to these studies?

“For some conditions it is superior to standard treatments. http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1357513. “

JAMA again. Of course, an open minded person could easily locate these links on Google him or herself. Clearly you are not…

So unless you think the Journal of the American Medical Association is in cahoots with eastern medicine, please spare me your condescension and sarcasm. You are not as witty as you believe.

justin heywood said :

PlasticScene said :

Thank you, Justin. A voice of reason in a sea of negativity and misinformation. What are people afraid of?

Sorry mate. It was a satirical post. I thought my claim that BiG Pharma was suppressing the cure for ingrown toenails (onychocryptosis) might have tipped you off.

But:

PlasticScene said :

Until there were double blind studies proving that acupuncture WORKS, there was a campaign to discredit practitioners, who knew all along that their therapies were effective.

I am not aware that there are “double blinded studies that prove acupuncture works”. Do you have a link to these studies?

TOO easy. “A study released in the archives of internal medicine (10 sept 2012); reviewed 29 studies involving almost 18, 000 people; indicated that acupuncture was found better at pain relief than no treatment or sham treatment.”

Not a big journal at all…you know, just JAMA, one of the most esteemed medical journals in the world.

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1357513

ain’t nothing that will fix permanent hearing loss if you’ve taken ototoxic drugs. not dr time. not dr potion. fix? technology.