23 September 2019

Barr in background as Manuka Oval plan lands

| Charlotte
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ManukaOval

Whether by strategic design or not, the ACT Government has not been closely involved in the reveal this morning of an unsolicited plan by the GWS Giants AFL club and Melbourne property behemoth Grocon to revelop Manuka Oval and its surrounds.

The $800 million redevelopment plan, called Manuka Green (manukagreen.com.au), would feature 4750 new permanent seats to replace temporary seating and standing areas at Manuka Oval, new roofing covering 80 per cent of seating, a landscape upgrade including a new running track linking Manuka Oval to Telopea Park and the Kingston Foreshore, a 4-star hotel, serviced apartments, residential, commercial and retail precincts, a licensed club and up to 450 additional car parking spaces

Grocon plan for Manuka Oval

If Mr Barr’s distance was intentional, then it may have been a smart move. While the plan (see artists’ impressions above and below) was unsolicited, Chief Minister Andrew Barr first flagged a major redevelopment of the site in 2009 and would no doubt welcome the news that a player such as Grocon wants to play a major role.

A design from the Giant's Manuka Oval plan

Mr Barr may not be so keen, however, to face the wrath of the residents of the Inner South in an election year should they react negatively to the plan.

The Chief Minister made few friends in the Inner South last year with his plan to move the Manuka Childcare Centre (pictured below) to the Telopea Park Tennis Courts to make way for a Canberra Services Club/Defence Housing development in Manuka. That plan is no more after extensive lobbying and campaigning by the communities of the school and childcare centre.

MOCCA campaign

The Inner South community is likely to react swiftly to news of a development with the potential for impact on iconic sites such as historic Manuka Pool (pictured below) and leafy Telopea Park, community hubs such as the Manuka Arts Centre (home of ArtSound and PhotoAccess), the Canberra Fire Museum (with its neighbouring former fire station homes), and the Kingston Organic Community Garden behind the Canberra Baptist Church.

Manuka Pool

The parents and friends of Telopea Park School will be watching closely to see whether a further attempt to repurpose its tennis courts or to encroach on its playing fields will ensue, ready to leap into action as they did last year (see campaign material below). No doubt the impact on parking will be a concern for staff and parents too.

Telopea Park School banners

A spokesman for the Giants provided the following response to our question about the impact on the aforementioned sites:

“The site for the proposed development of Manuka Green is the area around the oval excluding the pool, caretaker’s cottage and their setting. The Jack Fingleton scoreboard is proposed to be moved closer to those two buildings while a new landscaped setting of these buildings extends towards the oval to create a new grassed “hill” at the northern end of the oval.

“There is no intention to develop beyond the existing land that surrounds the ground – not in to the tennis courts and park to the west, but the project will be funding off site precinct upgrade works including; a new running track through Telopea park to link Manuka with the Kingston Foreshore, a new grand square at the southern end of the stadium to aid the links between the stadium and Manuka shops, and landscape upgrades at the northern end of the ground to best link the stadium precinct and heritage square surrounding the Manuka Pool to Telopea Park.”

He did not comment on the Manuka Arts Centre but a spokesman for Mr Barr had this to say:

“The intention always was for those arts facilities to move to the dedicated, purpose-built arts facilities being built at the Kingston Foreshore. In that sense, the development of the Arts centre site is OK to consider as part of the broader Oval redevelopment. The Chief Minister has made it very clear though that there wouldn’t be any attempt to move arts facilities out of Manuka until the site at Kingston was ready.

“As part of the consideration of the proposal, we would of course have to speak to anyone using the Manuka Arts Centre.”

The Canberra Services Club would have been seriously impacted by any major plan to redevelop Manuka Oval had its premises adjacent to the Oval not burnt down in 2011. It is currently housed in the former site of the ACT Rugby Union Club in Barton, but seeks to find a more suitable permanent site in time.

SCG Members

The RiotACT has also asked the Giants whether the plan contains a Members section along the lines of those of the Melbourne Cricket Ground and Sydney Cricket Ground (Members’ pavilion pictured above), and if so, where that seating/facilities for such a section would sit in the plan. Such a move would provide guaranteed annual revenue to fund the upkeep and development of the site as well as building a loyal community around the Oval that would operate world class cricket and AFL events.

The Giants spokesman responded:

“The project includes new dedicated space for elite sports to use as corporate and hospitality spaces but, in addition, the new hotel and club could provide catering and support facilities required to meet the demands of a members section, or something similar. But ultimately this would be a consideration for the community-owned trust that we propose is set up to manage the ground for the benefit of the community in perpetuity.”

The football club will announce details of a design competition for the precinct in coming days according to a statement announcing the proposal which says, “The GIANTS will also hold a design competition, if the ACT Government proceeds with the proposal, with a design brief that is informed by the community’s ideas.”

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miz said :

This whole thing is weird. How is it this massive corporation thinks it can just buy us off? Someone, somewhere has been giving the wrong impression.
I am wondering if Mr Barr comes from Melbourne? Because he doesn’t seem to get Canberra and keeps wanting to superimpose Melbourne-like, un-Canberran things on us. Now he wants to convert genteel Manuka oval into a Docklands AFL stadium clone.
Ugh, I don’t want that for Canberra.
I can’t see why a new stadium can’t be somewhere else, e.g. Tuggeranong, where it would actually be appreciated (it would be ‘finally, an infrastructure project for the whole city here in Tuggeranong!’) and there is actually space. Bruce was considered to be a long way away when it was built, so I don’t see why he’s trying to wreck historic, lovely Manuka. And it would be more even handed to distribute this kind of project amongst the town centres instead of inner, inner, inner.

Yes, he is from Melbourne (the Paris of the Southern Hemisphere).
I cannot understand why Barr keeps backing losers – sporting arenas and conference centres are really sunset industries (not to mention light rail also).
Then again, they are only the “sprat to catch the mackerel” aren’t they?

farnarkler said :

Combine it with an indoor 50m pool and gym and it would be extremely well used.

Yes, by those patrons who fit into the proposed 500-space carpark.

What the other 19,500 people will do for parking will remain a mystery.

Charlotte Harper12:53 pm 22 Feb 16

450 cars spaces, I think, not 500.

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

gooterz said :

Is this the increased density that light rail was going to bring? Isn’t it a little far from the nearest stop….

No it is the increased density you and many of the others are closing your eyes to despite its inevitability.

It will find the best most lucrative and marketable locations. In this case it is the availability of land in a highly desirable location, with a potential seller/leaser who was granted land for a public good, the promotion of sport, and like others is cashing in.

It is just part of the increasing random unsustainable collapse of planning. Even though it would be one of the anchor destinations of an extension of the Light Rail to Inner South Canberra, that I have proposed over and over again, I’ll put money on this all happening arse backwards. Development without the necessary transport planning in place.

Both sides of politics can see a potential very good friend in Grocon. I suspect the planning on this was done in the Commonwealth Club, not the ACT Government offices anywhere.

But it was nice of them to let us know what they have decided.

Parking is still free at the Commonwealth Club.

Just getting up that long driveway is not! 😉

farnarkler said :

$800 million for a ground that’s used all of 6 or 7 times a year for the AFL and even less for cricket. Even if Canberra gets a test and one or two one day or 20/20 matches, the ground will still be underutilised.

Want to spend money on a sporting facility that generates revenue the minute it opens? Build a two sheet ice skating centre. One sheet for figure skaters and public sessions and another purely for hockey with three or four thousand seats.

With international flights soon to arrive, there’s a great opportunity to get overseas teams from SE Asia or US college teams to play hockey and (for the SE Asian nations) get some figure skating training.

Combine it with an indoor 50m pool and gym and it would be extremely well used.

But where are they going to fit the 1,000 home units and hipster cafes?

$800 million for a ground that’s used all of 6 or 7 times a year for the AFL and even less for cricket. Even if Canberra gets a test and one or two one day or 20/20 matches, the ground will still be underutilised.

Want to spend money on a sporting facility that generates revenue the minute it opens? Build a two sheet ice skating centre. One sheet for figure skaters and public sessions and another purely for hockey with three or four thousand seats.

With international flights soon to arrive, there’s a great opportunity to get overseas teams from SE Asia or US college teams to play hockey and (for the SE Asian nations) get some figure skating training.

Combine it with an indoor 50m pool and gym and it would be extremely well used.

Jack Waterford has basically nailed every concern I’ve had for ages about the way Labor deals with developers.

The dealings are completely opaque overall with the Government really only releasing enough detail to keep people happy that due process is supposedly being followed.

As a rusted on leftie, my biggest concern is that the Barr Government won’t give a toss about the concerns people have in regard to their dealings in respect of light rail and the associated developments, the disproportionate number of grants that the University of Canberra has received and the fact that Tuggeranong has almost literally been left off the map when it comes into ACT Government investment.

The story that Gungahlin is the “happening place” in terms of population growth just doesn’t cut it.

Using that argument, I’d say that Gungahlin has the population to support it’s small and large businesses without anywhere near as much support as it’s getting from the ACT Govt. and the fact that it does get as much focus – and cash as it does reaks of pork barreling.

But, as usual I reckon Barr will gloss over these concerns and just right it off as nimbyism and continue operating as per his usual MO.

Again, as a leftie who’d detest Hanson and his Zed look-a-likes coming in and no doubt slash spending in a way that would make Joe Hockey look like a decent guy, I’m really stuck as to how to vote in the upcoming elections.

Given how Rattenbury has almost entirely folded over in terms of everything ACT Labor has asked him to support, even the greens aren’t a brilliant option.

Maybe I should gird my loins and run for a spot!!

The spokesperson on behalf of GWS (who is the actual proponent), is Tony Shepherd, ex-president of the Business Council of Australia. He was chairman of Abbott Government’s National Commission of Audit (2013-2014) This is the germ who wrote Joe Hockey’s first (and miserably failed) budget, and whose Commission of Audit recommended wholesale outsourcing of the APS.

Think this is hyperbole? Take a look at what his CofAudit was all about.

Charlotte Harper10:44 am 22 Feb 16

Of course more than one person writes the budget, @54-11, and the public service outsourcing comment is an exaggeration (see http://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/public-service/defence-cuts-outsourcing-crazy-union-20140502-zr325.html for what he did plan to outsource), but Shepherd was indeed highly influential ahead of the budget and was the proponent of the hugely unpopular GP payment concept. He copped it across media for getting his facts wrong on the number of GP visits we all make on that front: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-13/tony-shepherd-incorrect-doctor-visits/5436706
Here’s some more info about him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Shepherd_(businessman)
The fact that he is chair of the Sydney Cricket and Sports Ground Trust is very relevant to the Manuka plan. The SCG has recently undergone a massive upgrade. Look at who else is on his board there too: http://www.sydneycricketground.com.au/about-us/governance/trustees/

JC said :

dungfungus said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Seems as if this proposal (and that’s all it is) has bipartisan support. So maybe keep the political prejudice and point scoring out of it and discuss the proposal on its actual merits.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/manuka-oval-redevelopment-community-groups-alarmed-at-noise-disruption-traffic-20160217-gmwa1p.html

And what are the merits you see, JC?

Since the Liberals have now “endorsed” it I know you will have difficulty in finding any merits so you are excused from answering my earlier request.

Must admit my post above should have said discuss the merits or otherwise. And in the case I am in the otherwise camp regardless of what political party supports it.

I see no benefit what so ever to this proposal. Somethings just need to be left alone and Manuka oval and pool is one of them. There is already sufficient enough land in that area for high density housing, and its not like we need a large moden oval playing field for a couple of AFL games and the odd cricket match, when what is their suffices and is an historic part of Canberra’s history.

On top of that whilst proposals and ideas from private companies are welcome if a decision is made to redevelop something it should go out to tender, not be given to the company that proposed it.

I clearly recall Minister Corbell being photographed with an executive of a certain tram manufacturer about the time that the tram proposal was mooted. I know it is only a coincidence but the same trams were chosen for the project.
There are none more pro-active than European tram salespeople.

JC said :

dungfungus said :

John Hargreaves said :

Kate Carnell fell because she got into trouble over the financing of eh upgraded Bruce Stadium. So besotted with the Stadium was she that she painted its grass green to get a soccer game here.

The Chief Minister should remember the history to avoid the mistakes of the present.

That was after buying the turf from a Cairns company and having it trucked here (it was dead before it was laid)..
Apparently it was to be Canturf from Bungendore but someone got it mixed up.

It was never meant to be Canturf, though in the end they were the ones who replaced it with a cold climate grass, not a grass that was grown in the tropics.

You’re probably right about it never being meant to be Canturf as successive ACT governments tend to avoid using local goods and services. It’s much more vibrant to buy interstate and if possible, in Europe.

According to Icon’s website, Canberra’s Lower Molonglo Water Quality Control Centre which was
planned in the late 1960s and built between 1974 and 1978 at a cost of about $50 million has the ability to treat a flow of 100,000 cubic meters of sewage per day to a quality that is better than is often found in natural rivers and streams. The new centre was built to service the needs of a population of 400,000 people and could be extended to serve up to a million people.
How much will it now cost accommodate in excess of 400,000 people which, will be the population of Canberra very soon according to Mr Barr who wants to cram Civic with 20,000 people.
What other essential infrastructure will have to be upgraded to meet these crazy expansion plan and more importantly, where is the money coming from?

rubaiyat said :

gooterz said :

Is this the increased density that light rail was going to bring? Isn’t it a little far from the nearest stop….

No it is the increased density you and many of the others are closing your eyes to despite its inevitability.

It will find the best most lucrative and marketable locations. In this case it is the availability of land in a highly desirable location, with a potential seller/leaser who was granted land for a public good, the promotion of sport, and like others is cashing in.

It is just part of the increasing random unsustainable collapse of planning. Even though it would be one of the anchor destinations of an extension of the Light Rail to Inner South Canberra, that I have proposed over and over again, I’ll put money on this all happening arse backwards. Development without the necessary transport planning in place.

Both sides of politics can see a potential very good friend in Grocon. I suspect the planning on this was done in the Commonwealth Club, not the ACT Government offices anywhere.

But it was nice of them to let us know what they have decided.

Parking is still free at the Commonwealth Club.

GWS isn’t even a Canberra team, just a Claytons one.

dungfungus said :

John Hargreaves said :

Kate Carnell fell because she got into trouble over the financing of eh upgraded Bruce Stadium. So besotted with the Stadium was she that she painted its grass green to get a soccer game here.

The Chief Minister should remember the history to avoid the mistakes of the present.

That was after buying the turf from a Cairns company and having it trucked here (it was dead before it was laid)..
Apparently it was to be Canturf from Bungendore but someone got it mixed up.

It was never meant to be Canturf, though in the end they were the ones who replaced it with a cold climate grass, not a grass that was grown in the tropics.

dungfungus said :

There is a good comment and analysis of this issue by Jack Waterford in today’s Canberra Times.

I largely agree with what Jack says, it is mostly just commonsense and normal (if this wasn’t Canberra) practice to get competitive bids and not flog off the farm for a a set of beads, mirrors and flattering promises.

dungfungus said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Seems as if this proposal (and that’s all it is) has bipartisan support. So maybe keep the political prejudice and point scoring out of it and discuss the proposal on its actual merits.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/manuka-oval-redevelopment-community-groups-alarmed-at-noise-disruption-traffic-20160217-gmwa1p.html

And what are the merits you see, JC?

Since the Liberals have now “endorsed” it I know you will have difficulty in finding any merits so you are excused from answering my earlier request.

Must admit my post above should have said discuss the merits or otherwise. And in the case I am in the otherwise camp regardless of what political party supports it.

I see no benefit what so ever to this proposal. Somethings just need to be left alone and Manuka oval and pool is one of them. There is already sufficient enough land in that area for high density housing, and its not like we need a large moden oval playing field for a couple of AFL games and the odd cricket match, when what is their suffices and is an historic part of Canberra’s history.

On top of that whilst proposals and ideas from private companies are welcome if a decision is made to redevelop something it should go out to tender, not be given to the company that proposed it.

There is a good comment and analysis of this issue by Jack Waterford in today’s Canberra Times.

Will I get canned again for pointing out that stupidly all the high buildings are, as is perpetually, tragically and insanely the habit in Canberra, on the northside?

We just love the southerly cold winter winds, deep shadows and dead grass that will result.

Also the token 450 car parking spaces are another gesture to the car tragics in the absence of a transport plan, and of course will do nothing towards the real problems created by the massive development.

gooterz said :

Is this the increased density that light rail was going to bring? Isn’t it a little far from the nearest stop….

No it is the increased density you and many of the others are closing your eyes to despite its inevitability.

It will find the best most lucrative and marketable locations. In this case it is the availability of land in a highly desirable location, with a potential seller/leaser who was granted land for a public good, the promotion of sport, and like others is cashing in.

It is just part of the increasing random unsustainable collapse of planning. Even though it would be one of the anchor destinations of an extension of the Light Rail to Inner South Canberra, that I have proposed over and over again, I’ll put money on this all happening arse backwards. Development without the necessary transport planning in place.

Both sides of politics can see a potential very good friend in Grocon. I suspect the planning on this was done in the Commonwealth Club, not the ACT Government offices anywhere.

But it was nice of them to let us know what they have decided.

This whole thing is weird. How is it this massive corporation thinks it can just buy us off? Someone, somewhere has been giving the wrong impression.
I am wondering if Mr Barr comes from Melbourne? Because he doesn’t seem to get Canberra and keeps wanting to superimpose Melbourne-like, un-Canberran things on us. Now he wants to convert genteel Manuka oval into a Docklands AFL stadium clone.
Ugh, I don’t want that for Canberra.
I can’t see why a new stadium can’t be somewhere else, e.g. Tuggeranong, where it would actually be appreciated (it would be ‘finally, an infrastructure project for the whole city here in Tuggeranong!’) and there is actually space. Bruce was considered to be a long way away when it was built, so I don’t see why he’s trying to wreck historic, lovely Manuka. And it would be more even handed to distribute this kind of project amongst the town centres instead of inner, inner, inner.

John Hargreaves said :

Kate Carnell fell because she got into trouble over the financing of eh upgraded Bruce Stadium. So besotted with the Stadium was she that she painted its grass green to get a soccer game here.

The Chief Minister should remember the history to avoid the mistakes of the present.

Surely you mean the hospital implosion?
I wonder what impacts the hospital waiting time scandal had on patient health at Canberra hospital under the Labor government?

The Bruce stadium scandal occurred because someone got grass from Darwin instead of locally. If the chief minister signed off on that grass deal, we have much bigger issues in terms of spans of power!

Its a pitty they can’t lower Canberra avenue into a tunnel under the stadium. The access looks great.

Imagine the revenue from tourism for ever PM 11’s game where this stadium is broadcast on tv around the country!

John Hargreaves said :

Kate Carnell fell because she got into trouble over the financing of eh upgraded Bruce Stadium. So besotted with the Stadium was she that she painted its grass green to get a soccer game here.

The Chief Minister should remember the history to avoid the mistakes of the present.

That was after buying the turf from a Cairns company and having it trucked here (it was dead before it was laid)..
Apparently it was to be Canturf from Bungendore but someone got it mixed up.

In the frenzied blood rush to the head of the proposed multimillion dollar injection into the Manuka Oval a throwaway comment by Chief Minister Barr referred to the relocation of a radio station from the Manuka Arts Centre.

Mr Barr, and folks on RioACT should be informed that the station mentioned, ArtSound FM, is not ‘just a radio station’. It is certainly more than just a place where a few CDs are played during the day.

It contains not only broadcast studios but a modern recording studio where superb acoustics have attracted musicians and artists locally, nationally and internationally, and clients such as Hollywood studios, the Guardian (London), the Institute of Engineers, and numerous local musicians.

ArtSound broadcasts to a dedicated listenership in the Canberra region community radio audience, estimated by McNair Ingenuity in 2015 at over 60,000.

What some people fail to recognise is that ArtSound is one of a dwindling number of production houses in the world with the expertise to undertake professional preservation of private and culturally significant tape archives. Amongst clients ArtSound has won contracts with include theNational Library, National Film and Sound Archive, War Memorial, National Archives and several overseas collections of historical significance.

In the announcement of the Manuka upgrade proposal there was also no mention of the heritage-listed former Baby Health Centre and School of Music (Manuka Arts Centre), the million dollar broadcast studios and recording studio which were part-funded by ACT Government, ACTEW, Labor Club and ArtSound members.
The studios themselves were built largely by volunteers, of which I was one, and were opened by Jon Stanhope in 2005.

Not withstanding the Chief Minister’ s view that “relocation” to Kingston will take place, it is shameful to see the thousands of hours of volunteer work, Government and sponsors dollars, that have gone into establishing a community facility and which is valued and used by many, appears to be under threat for the sake of a few football matches that have numerous other options available in the ACT.

Will a few million be set aside by Grocon to develop new studios if the Manuka Arts Centre is demolished? Somehow I doubt it. Sport will triumph over arts again.

Charlotte Harper10:17 am 22 Feb 16

@nealg, I did ask the Chief Minister’s office about the future of the facilities at the arts centre and was assured they will be moved to to the expanding arts precinct in Kingston. I agree it’s sad that they need to move from their historic home, but the government clearly plans to provide replacement facilities for them as it did for Megalo. I would think it would be a plus for them to be in the same area as Megalo, the Glassworks, the Bus Depot Markets and others to come, and that there will be benefits from updated facilities.
Not that I’m necessarily a fan of the Manuka Green plan in its current form. I have plenty of concerns around parking and the impact of the development on Manuka Pool and its environs in particular.

Why do these blow-ins, the GWS Giants, even have the right to suggest such a development? They’re here for about 5 minutes a year!

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Seems as if this proposal (and that’s all it is) has bipartisan support. So maybe keep the political prejudice and point scoring out of it and discuss the proposal on its actual merits.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/manuka-oval-redevelopment-community-groups-alarmed-at-noise-disruption-traffic-20160217-gmwa1p.html

And what are the merits you see, JC?

Since the Liberals have now “endorsed” it I know you will have difficulty in finding any merits so you are excused from answering my earlier request.

Charlotte Harper said :

If you mean who is Grocon, it’s a privately owned business founded by Melbourne’s Grollo family.
Here’s some background:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grocon

The stand-off with the CFMEU will be worth waiting to see.

Things change and progress. If governments listened to every NIMBY then nothing would ever get done, the city would turn to a pile of crap and I’m sure the NIMBY’s would then complain because services are affected.

If you buy any place in an inner area of Canberra you need to expect it to have more medium and high density residential being built. Its how cities grow. I’d also think getting the Manuka oval upgraded is a good thing as it won’t use government money to do it instead. In fact I also welcome the proposal of getting the Casino developers to help build a new football stadium in the city. Whether you personally like it or not, plenty of people enjoy watching sport and thus having high quality sporting infrastructure, means more tourism dollars, attracts more quality workers to the city as well.

Holden Caulfield12:40 pm 19 Feb 16

I’m not surprised there’s bipartisan support from loval gov. They didn’t ask for this plan, but if it goes ahead whoever is in power at the time will take all the credit for the jobs and other rubbery figures to make themselves look better. And if it all goes down the toilet, then whoever is in power can wash their hands and say, “I didn’t do it.”

To use a cricket analogy, it’s a free hit for local pollies.

John Hargreaves10:55 am 19 Feb 16

Kate Carnell fell because she got into trouble over the financing of eh upgraded Bruce Stadium. So besotted with the Stadium was she that she painted its grass green to get a soccer game here.

The Chief Minister should remember the history to avoid the mistakes of the present.

bringontheevidence10:33 am 19 Feb 16

Paul Costigan said :

Just to add to Charlotte’s comment: I attended the Albert Hall event on Wednesday – for the presentation by David Dawes LDA/Directorate chief. I have several stories to tell about that puzzling evening. One was that there are 13,500 unsold apartments in Canberra.

I highly doubt there are 13500 unsold apartments. If there was no developer in their right mind would be building anything new, and nor would the banks be lending to developers building in Canberra.

That 13,500 figure is probably the number of apartments in the development pipeline. It typically takes anything from 3-5 years between a site being sold by the Government with approval for apartments and the apartments actually being ready to move in. At current population growth rates Canberra needs about 3000-4000 new dwellings per year, of which nearly three quarters are apartments and townhouses. 3000 apartments * 4 years plus the unsold completed stock (of which you would still have over a thousand probably) give you the 13,500 figure or thereabouts.

Is this the increased density that light rail was going to bring? Isn’t it a little far from the nearest stop….

The issue here is not about Manuka Oval as a sporting venue for cricket or Aussie rules. It will not be able to house 18K spectators. I am sure cricket Australia would think the loss of nets a negative but will be quiet in case it jeopardises future funding.

The issue is real estate and transferring govt land to GWS & Grocon, undoubtedly talks would already have been had about waiving Lease Variation charge. The Labour Govt is a soft touch for land deals due to its ties with the Property Council and the CFMEU. The ambit claim will be cut back before the election as it is over the top.

The new Manuka Mall, Hotel and flats will make carparking & traffic worse and have a detrimental effect on existing Manuka shops and residents.

The ACT Govt will say it is in the public interest as rates will be paid once flats are sold!
LDA’s David Dawes has said there are over 13500 flats vacant in the ACT. How long before the bubble bursts? Dodgy builders are being found out by shrewd buyers. Who would want to buy one of these flats with the noise bound to happen? The development at Forrest at the Italian Club/ Forrest Motor Inn Precinct would attract more interest three years down the track.

JC said :

Seems as if this proposal (and that’s all it is) has bipartisan support. So maybe keep the political prejudice and point scoring out of it and discuss the proposal on its actual merits.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/manuka-oval-redevelopment-community-groups-alarmed-at-noise-disruption-traffic-20160217-gmwa1p.html

It could hardly be political prejudice if, as you allege, there is bipartisan support.
Rather, this seems more like government vs. directly affected community (which we have been seeing continually for the last few years). The government is supposed to be the representative of the people. When they stop listening to the people they usually get chucked out.

HiddenDragon5:44 pm 18 Feb 16

Charlotte Harper said :

I asked a real estate agent based in the area yesterday whether we needed more apartments in Manuka/Kingston and the answer was, unsurprisingly, no.

Not entirely surprised to hear that advice, either. One of the thoughts I had when this proposal was announced was to wonder about the fate of plans from a few years back about a mixed commercial – residential development on the site of the Eyre Street carpark in Kingston. The last I heard, that was going to include another large supermarket – something the Manuka/Kingston area could surely do with if there is to be a further substantial increase in the number of apartments in that area.

Who are the Grocon private investors?

Charlotte Harper11:32 am 19 Feb 16

If you mean who is Grocon, it’s a privately owned business founded by Melbourne’s Grollo family.
Here’s some background:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grocon

Paul Costigan said :

Just to add to Charlotte’s comment: I attended the Albert Hall event on Wednesday – for the presentation by David Dawes LDA/Directorate chief. I have several stories to tell about that puzzling evening. One was that there are 13,500 unsold apartments in Canberra.

Wow: ABS estimate there are about 155,000 households in Canberra ( search for “3236.0 – Household and Family Projections, Australia, 2011 to 2036”, download spreadsheet, see ACT table)

So 13,500 apartments is a huge chunk. I guess not all “unsold” are new and empty, that is, some are occupied but “for sale”?

JC said :

Seems as if this proposal (and that’s all it is) has bipartisan support. So maybe keep the political prejudice and point scoring out of it and discuss the proposal on its actual merits.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/manuka-oval-redevelopment-community-groups-alarmed-at-noise-disruption-traffic-20160217-gmwa1p.html

What you mean some of the previous posters would be happy if the proposal came from the Liberals instead 🙂 Then again the ACT Liberals seem to be great at opposing policies the federal Liberals do support.

Also if apartments are left empty, firstly either idiots are investing in them and not finding rent or don’t care because its negatively geared (a good reason to fix this), or developers have a lot of unsold apartments. This means eventually it will put downward pressure on housing. That is a good thing. Developers are out to make money so they are not developing land to have it unused.

Charlotte Harper11:41 am 19 Feb 16

By the way, yes, the Liberal Opposition do approve. They issued this statement earlier in the week:
MANUKA OVAL PRECINCT
PROPOSAL WELCOMED
The Canberra Liberals welcome the GWS proposal for significant and creative investment in the Manuka Oval precinct, Leader of the Opposition Jeremy Hanson said today.
%u201CWe look forward to the community discussion surrounding this proposal and welcome the consideration of Manuka Oval for significant private sector investment,%u201D Mr Hanson said.
%u201CThe private sector is often best placed for this sort of development with the government taking an oversight and supporting role.
%u201CThis sort of proposal has the potential to create many jobs during construction and I look forward to further discussions with the community and proponents,%u201D Mr Hanson concluded.

Paul Costigan12:22 pm 18 Feb 16

Just to clarify – the meeting at the Albert Hall was because it was a Friends of the Albert Hall meeting with a guest speaker. more stories maybe later.

Meanwhile – to stay on topic

I suspect that while the Manuka proposal was unsolicited – it was well known and more likely encouraged from within the LDA/Directorate – but sadly it seems that the proponents could not find the time to at least include the any of the locals in the preliminary concept stage. Yes they do signal that they will be consulting later – but why not start with real engagement at the very first and save everyone time and resources and angst.

So much for the catch cry – Urban Development – Partnerships with the community.

JC said :

Seems as if this proposal (and that’s all it is) has bipartisan support. So maybe keep the political prejudice and point scoring out of it and discuss the proposal on its actual merits.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/manuka-oval-redevelopment-community-groups-alarmed-at-noise-disruption-traffic-20160217-gmwa1p.html

And what are the merits you see, JC?

Seems as if this proposal (and that’s all it is) has bipartisan support. So maybe keep the political prejudice and point scoring out of it and discuss the proposal on its actual merits.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/manuka-oval-redevelopment-community-groups-alarmed-at-noise-disruption-traffic-20160217-gmwa1p.html

Paul Costigan said :

Just to add to Charlotte’s comment: I attended the Albert Hall event on Wednesday – for the presentation by David Dawes LDA/Directorate chief. I have several stories to tell about that puzzling evening. One was that there are 13,500 unsold apartments in Canberra.

Did you have any trouble parking?
No, I guess not because there is ample free parking across the road in the Hyatt car park.
That is why the meeting was at Albert Hall instead of the ACT Government’s offices in London Circuit where visitors have to pay $2.10 per hour in the evening.
That suggestion that there are thousand of unsold units in Canberra doesn’t surprise me.

Paul Costigan9:15 am 18 Feb 16

Just to add to Charlotte’s comment: I attended the Albert Hall event on Wednesday – for the presentation by David Dawes LDA/Directorate chief. I have several stories to tell about that puzzling evening. One was that there are 13,500 unsold apartments in Canberra.

Charlotte Harper said :

I asked a real estate agent based in the area yesterday whether we needed more apartments in Manuka/Kingston and the answer was, unsurprisingly, no.

Did he also say “now is a good time to buy real estate”? (joke).

No mention of any “serviced apartments” in today’s CT report on this issue.
But 1,000 apartments and 2,000 jobs are stated as the plan.
The spin is on already. It’s the “Brumbies plan” on steroids.
Apparently Barr giving GWS $23 million dollars of ratepayers to play a few token games in Canberra every year isn’t enough.

Charlotte Harper8:02 am 18 Feb 16

I asked a real estate agent based in the area yesterday whether we needed more apartments in Manuka/Kingston and the answer was, unsurprisingly, no.

Clear sign that Andrew Barr knows he is on the nose when it comes to anything involving development.

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