10 November 2011

Calling all Progressives and Stoners

| jimbob87
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At lunch today, near the Merry-go-round in Civic, I happened across a petition calling for a debate on the legalisation of illicit drugs.

They seem to have gathered quite a few signatures so far, which i was assured won’t go onto some type of police database!

Anyone wanting to help lose the War on Drugs should get on down there and sign up.

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fgzk said :

Above is just the effect of pedants who wish to affect us all with their ridged interpretation of knowledge. Its a wind up.

Nope, not at all. In short, if someone writes in a semi literate fashion, either here or elsewhere, I don’t pay much attention to what they have to say. It’s a useful rule that saves me wasting a lot of time.

I may be the only one here who feels that way, but I doubt it.

fgzk said :

Above is just the effect of pedants who wish to affect us all with their ridged interpretation of knowledge. Its a wind up.

I’m assuming you mean ‘rigid’ interpretation of knowledge.

Above is just the effect of pedants who wish to affect us all with their ridged interpretation of knowledge. Its a wind up.

I think this thread has gone far enough.

There is no “War on Drugs” in the ACT.

If you’d like a party that respects your choice, vote LDP.

dpm said :

HenryBG said :

They are two entirely separate words with entirely separate meanings…

Do you mean like ‘wind’ and ‘wind’ (as in: ‘It was very windy on the long and winding road today!’)? 😉

Anyway, I don’t really give a toss, except to say that if you look on basically any grammar site or in any dictionary (not just Websters), including the Macquarie Australian (you know, the place where we live?) or the Oxford, they all say both words are interchangeable (with one country preferring one over the other – as I mentioned before; la de dah.). Check for yourself if you like. I’m not sure how long ago you went to school, but it seems the world has moved on and gotten over that issue – except you who is stuck in ye old past! Just sayin…. Hahaha! 🙂
My ‘pet peeve’ is more likely to be grammar or spelling nazis on sites like RA. A lot of people in the world have valuable points to make, but for whatever reason (English may not be their first language, they may be dyslexic, they may have dropped out of school, they may be rushed and make typos without checking, they may be young and talk in TXT speak, etc etc) they may put together ‘non-perfect posts’. But if I can understand the point they were making, I don’t care at all about the grammatical perfection of the message (OK, so ALLCAPS *is* annoying! But I did amusingly like the Firstcaps used by Krats recently!). Everyone is entitled to make their point, even those who aren’t perfect (which certainly includes me!). Tut tutting over these issues is a yawn, IMHO.
I’m probably alone on this but we should aim to discuss the points being made behind the posts, otherwise we just look we have no other argument other than pointing out typos from our ivory towers….

Bad argument there, in my view.

I equate the ability to write correct and coherent English with intelligence and education. This affects the amount of weight I apply to the views of the author. It may not be a perfect heuristic, but it works enough of the time to be worthwhile. So if I see someone writing here or elsewhere in textspeak, or ALLCAPS, or Firstcaps, or forming poorly structured sentences etc then I usually equate that with lack of intelligence, or education, or both. This makes me tend to discount the opinions of the authors. Really poorly formed posts, such as those produced by the defenders of swan molesters et al get no consideration at all, apart from a bit of mockery if I feel like it.

There are people who post on this site who write with wit and grace, and I hold their views in high regard. JB’s posts, for example, are frequently masterpieces of minimalist precision. That’s why I come here, not for the incoherent text speakers.

Then again, who cares what I think. 🙂

HenryBG said :

They are two entirely separate words with entirely separate meanings…

Do you mean like ‘wind’ and ‘wind’ (as in: ‘It was very windy on the long and winding road today!’)? 😉

Anyway, I don’t really give a toss, except to say that if you look on basically any grammar site or in any dictionary (not just Websters), including the Macquarie Australian (you know, the place where we live?) or the Oxford, they all say both words are interchangeable (with one country preferring one over the other – as I mentioned before; la de dah.). Check for yourself if you like. I’m not sure how long ago you went to school, but it seems the world has moved on and gotten over that issue – except you who is stuck in ye old past! Just sayin…. Hahaha! 🙂
My ‘pet peeve’ is more likely to be grammar or spelling nazis on sites like RA. A lot of people in the world have valuable points to make, but for whatever reason (English may not be their first language, they may be dyslexic, they may have dropped out of school, they may be rushed and make typos without checking, they may be young and talk in TXT speak, etc etc) they may put together ‘non-perfect posts’. But if I can understand the point they were making, I don’t care at all about the grammatical perfection of the message (OK, so ALLCAPS *is* annoying! But I did amusingly like the Firstcaps used by Krats recently!). Everyone is entitled to make their point, even those who aren’t perfect (which certainly includes me!). Tut tutting over these issues is a yawn, IMHO.
I’m probably alone on this but we should aim to discuss the points being made behind the posts, otherwise we just look we have no other argument other than pointing out typos from our ivory towers….

The same goes for “insure” and “ensure”.

I mean, come on! How hard is it?

dpm said :

HenryBG said :

I’ve even had an argument about this at the library:
“Is this the ‘enquiry’ desk?”, I asked the shrivelled prune behind the counter.
“Yes”, she replies, “how can I help you?
“It’s just that your sign advertises ‘inquiries’. You will clearly need to replace it with one that is accurate”.

AFAIK, there is little difference between enquire and inquire (or their nouns) and they can generally be used interchangeably. Enquiry more commonly is used ‘to ask’ but there is no grammar rule that says that is so exclusively – and that inquiry only means ‘an investigation’. There may be preferences amongst people/groups/countries but that’s about it.
At the end of the day, it’s probably not something to get yourself too worked up about….! 🙂

They are two entirely separate words with entirely separate meanings.

Sadly, a borderline-illiterate called Webster decided to conflate their meanings when writing his substandard dictionary and for reasons of cultural chauvinism that awful dictionary is still in use.

If you have two different words to describe two different things it is completely stupid to conflate their meanings to produce both ambiguity and linguistic impoverishment. The fact that it is an ugly and ignorant americanism should make it even less desirable for taxpayers’ money being spent making up stupid signs which perpetuate foreign mis-spellings.

HenryBG said :

I’ve even had an argument about this at the library:
“Is this the ‘enquiry’ desk?”, I asked the shrivelled prune behind the counter.
“Yes”, she replies, “how can I help you?
“It’s just that your sign advertises ‘inquiries’. You will clearly need to replace it with one that is accurate”.

AFAIK, there is little difference between enquire and inquire (or their nouns) and they can generally be used interchangeably. Enquiry more commonly is used ‘to ask’ but there is no grammar rule that says that is so exclusively – and that inquiry only means ‘an investigation’. There may be preferences amongst people/groups/countries but that’s about it.
At the end of the day, it’s probably not something to get yourself too worked up about….! 🙂

PBO said :

fgzk said :

What’s a Verb?

A nasty hallucinegenic drug, they say that it can show you a descriptive picture of action or a state of being, so they say.

Sounds dangerous to me. Should be banned forthwith!

HenryBG said :

Ben_Dover said :

AFFECT is normally a verb, and means “to influence or change.”
EFFECT is normally a noun, and means the result, consequence, or change that is made.

The horse of rampant, flagrant, and unrepentant illiteracy has well and truly bolted.

Those who paid no attention whatsoever in school and now live in houses with nary a book in sight, save the obligatory Victoria Beckham autobiography, actually believe the world deserves or needs their illiterate and insensate opinions.

I’ve even had an argument about this at the library:
“Is this the ‘enquiry’ desk?”, I asked the shrivelled prune behind the counter.
“Yes”, she replies, “how can I help you?
“It’s just that your sign advertises ‘inquiries’. You will clearly need to replace it with one that is accurate”.

And how did she answer? Perhaps she picked up on the fact that you regarded her as a dried up piece of fruit, and were approaching her to be unpleasant, and to waste her time. Perhaps she realised that ‘inquiries’ is a legitimate alternative to ‘enquiries’, (or enquiry desk, by extension) slightly more common in the USA, but nevertheless perfectly correct. Or perhaps, as an employee, that she is not responsible for the sign, and bit her lip so as not to call you anything rude? If she didn’t say anything rude, I think she deserves a medal. Behaviour like this gives the glorious cause of pedantry a bad name. And the full-stop in your last sentence should precede the quotation marks, as the whole sentence is made up of what you said.

An addiction to grammar does not preclude courtesy. Or so I’ve heard.

fgzk said :

What’s a Verb?

A nasty hallucinegenic drug, they say that it can show you a descriptive picture of action or a state of being, so they say.

Ben_Dover said :

AFFECT is normally a verb, and means “to influence or change.”
EFFECT is normally a noun, and means the result, consequence, or change that is made.

The horse of rampant, flagrant, and unrepentant illiteracy has well and truly bolted.

Those who paid no attention whatsoever in school and now live in houses with nary a book in sight, save the obligatory Victoria Beckham autobiography, actually believe the world deserves or needs their illiterate and insensate opinions.

I’ve even had an argument about this at the library:
“Is this the ‘enquiry’ desk?”, I asked the shrivelled prune behind the counter.
“Yes”, she replies, “how can I help you?
“It’s just that your sign advertises ‘inquiries’. You will clearly need to replace it with one that is accurate”.

Whoever said alcohol and tobacco use wasn’t harmless? If you apply what I stated about “drug use” (the illicit kind) to either alcohol or tobacco my response would still be the same.

Deref said :

Kat87 said :

How it effects me doesn’t really concern you. My point was that those who use drugs and advocate them don’t seem willing to take into consideration what it does to those around them. My personal experience is enough to convince me that drug use is not; and will never be, harmless.

So you’d support alcohol and tobacco prohitibion, Kat? After all, alcohol and cigarettes kill many more people than the illegal drugs.

Careful, when you expose ignorant prejudices to logical thoughts you can get an explosive reaction

fgzk said :

What’s a Verb?

Something at the edge of the pavement. Easy to trip over when feeling a little ‘progressive’.

What’s a Verb?

Kat87 said :

How it effects me doesn’t really concern you. My point was that those who use drugs and advocate them don’t seem willing to take into consideration what it does to those around them. My personal experience is enough to convince me that drug use is not; and will never be, harmless.

So you’d support alcohol and tobacco prohitibion, Kat? After all, alcohol and cigarettes kill many more people than the illegal drugs.

I’ve taken as much as any man should be expected to take, I swore never to post in the debates here again, but a man can only take so much!!

AFFECT is normally a verb, and means “to influence or change.”
EFFECT is normally a noun, and means the result, consequence, or change that is made.

Examples:
How does population growth affect us? VERB
Studying should positively affect your grades. VERB
What is the effect of population growth? NOUN
Drinking alcohol can have a bad effect on your health. NOUN

Affect and effect have no uses in common. As a verb affect is used to mean “to influence” (how smoking affects health). Effect means “to cause, create, or institute” (layoffs designed to effect savings). Thus the sentence These measures may affect savings implies that the measures may change savings already made, whereas These measures may effect savings implies that the measures will cause new savings to come about.

I live that life Kat. That is why I support a change to regulation. Because I think it will provide better outcomes for everyone.

fgzk said :

Kat87 said :

I can’t put into words how much I am fascinated by people who state that decriminalising or even legalising drugs doesn’t hurt anyone – try living life on the other side where your parent or sibling or friend uses drugs without considering how it affects you. See how harmless that is.

Such bullsh*t.

How does that effect you? What is it that effects you now? You seem light on facts and heavy on bulls**t

How it effects me doesn’t really concern you. My point was that those who use drugs and advocate them don’t seem willing to take into consideration what it does to those around them. My personal experience is enough to convince me that drug use is not; and will never be, harmless.

Certainly, I don’t expect my point of view to be enough to suffice you despite this beautiful relationship we’ve built, but somehow, I won’t lose sleep over it. I was simply stating my opinion that is; yes, heavily influenced by more than impersonal news stories.

Kat87 said :

I can’t put into words how much I am fascinated by people who state that decriminalising or even legalising drugs doesn’t hurt anyone – try living life on the other side where your parent or sibling or friend uses drugs without considering how it affects you. See how harmless that is.

Such bullsh*t.

How does that effect you? What is it that effects you now? You seem light on facts and heavy on bulls**t

I can’t put into words how much I am fascinated by people who state that decriminalising or even legalising drugs doesn’t hurt anyone – try living life on the other side where your parent or sibling or friend uses drugs without considering how it affects you. See how harmless that is.

Such bullsh*t.

Grail said :

LootenPlunder said :

Again… are you unaware that drugs kill people? That people become addicted and are unable to function as normal, contributing members of society? That drugs destroy their lives and those of the people around them…? Drug abuse is responsible for a lot of the sh*t that is wrong with society. Saying that people should be able to freely consume this crap is abhorrently disrespectful.

It’s not the drugs that kill people, m’kay?

Illicit drugs have no quality control, no complaints process and no ombudsman to appeal to when things go wrong. There is a severe social stigma to using drugs, so it’s very hard to get support: you can’t just say, “hey guys, I have a drug problem, can I get some help?” (unless you want to end up in gaol and out of a job). So between the issues of quality control, product safety and stigmatisation, you end up with people dying because they overdose, inject strychnine mislabeled as heroin, or don’t have friends watching them to keep them safe while they’re high.

The association of criminal behaviour with drugs is mainly due to the proscription of drugs: it will be easy to separate the criminal element from the drug trade when the drug trade is legalised. It’s not the drugs themselves that make people criminals. If your workmate asks, “hey guys, I’m trying to quit smoking, so please go easy when I’m a bit irritable?” – most people will do what they can to help. If you workmate asks, “hey guys, I’m trying to quit heroin, so please go easy on me when I’m a bit irritable?” – most people will show them the door. Yet it’s nicotine that’s the more dangerous drug here – people suffer heroin overdoses because of changes in product quality or safety, in a similar way a smoker would have problems if they normally smoke 8mg menthols and they end up bumming a cigar.

Substance abuse is one of the many symptoms of “what is wrong with society”. Drug (ab)use is not the problem directly: the fact that it can get out of hand with no support network is yet another symptom of “what is wrong with society”. The main component of “what is wrong with society” is that we’re all humans, and everyone has different opinions about what is “right” (and thus, which set of everything else is “wrong”).

If you think drug use itself is the problem that causes “what is wrong with society”, where do you stand on alcohol consumption? Smoking? Adding sugar to food? Using Viagra to rescue a relationship? Self-hypnosis devices such as TV? Feeding kids red food colouring?

Alcohol is a social recreational drug, yet we have campaigns to prevent alcohol abusers self-destructing. Nicotine is an addictive carcinogen which poses an environmental hazard to those not directly consuming it, yet it is legal and there are campaigns to help people quit. TV is accepted as an essential part of any modern house, yet nobody bats an eyelid when we find that people are spending upwards of four hours a day sitting in front of it doing nothing.

The best way to lose The War On Drugs is to start believing it’s worth fighting.

The war we need to fight is on the societal conditions that lead people to seek the escape that recreational drugs provide.

Thankyou! Fantastic post

I once bought a copy of Green Left Weekly back in my uni days, because I was curious as to what it would be like to wipe my arse with newspaper rather than toilet paper.

True story.

Justine heywood “…the Taliban link to the drug trade may just be propaganda or minor involvement….
Only if you ignore an absolute mountain of evidence or source your information exclusively from the Green Left Weekly. “

I have never read the Green Left weekly. Not once. In a reasonable debate we should endeavor to sift fact from fiction.

The “awkward fact”. Production of poppies in each of the last seven years has been higher than any of the seven years of Taliban rule. Over 90% of the worlds heroin continues to originate in Afghanistan and most of that from the Helman province. While in power the Taliban maintained that the principle of the opium trade was morally wrong according to Islam. In 1997 the Taliban Foreign Minister banned the cultivation and trafficking of opium and warned that Mohammed and sharia law would be applied. In 2000 Omar decreed a total ban on poppy cultivation leading to a crop of only 8000 hectors in 2001. A feat that Bernard Frahi of the United Nations Office of Drug Control called “one of the most remarkable successes ever”. Of course history took a turn so we will never know the outcome of the Taliban’s efforts to stem the trade. What we do know is that under the present Government drug money is fueling the usual corruption. That production is back up regardless of the huge effort put in to reduce it by the Western powers.

Afghanistan now has a growing problem of drug addiction. In the past it was viewed as a western vice and a legitimate weapon of war against the infidels.

You wont solve the problem with any war.

Diggety said :

Jethro said :

Diggety said :

Dear Progressives and Stoners,

Lay down your arms and allay your fears. For you, there is no “War on Drugs”.

Next time you consider joining the Space Cadets, please check local laws and regulations and recent declarations of war relevant to you.

FFS.

Tell that to people who have been denied jobs, passports, visas, etc because they go busted for possession in their university years.

Evidence please, Jethro.

And don’t send me some youtube link from the show “COPS” either. Something relevant.

Evidence? You need to pass police checks for any number of jobs. A criminal record for possession puts your ability to pass that at risk.

Getting permission to enter countries like the USA is a lot harder i you have any type of criminal record.

People get fired from all types of jobs for testing positive for cannabis, even though they may have consumed it weeks ago, but it just hadn’t left their system yet. The pressure by mining companies to add synthetic cannabis to the list of banned substances was a big reason these got made illegal.

justin heywood5:06 pm 12 Nov 11

…the Taliban link to the drug trade may just be propaganda or minor involvement….
Only if you ignore an absolute mountain of evidence or source your information exclusively from the Green Left Weekly.

Back on topic – It does not follow that just because some drugs are legal (alcohol and tobacco), then all drugs should be legal. As a society we have spent billions trying to address the impact of widespread tobacco and alcohol abuse and have generally accepted increasing regulation regarding their use.

Just because drug use ‘didn’t hurt me’ is not a reason to make drugs more freely available. We all know people that they DID hurt.

Jethro said :

Diggety said :

Dear Progressives and Stoners,

Lay down your arms and allay your fears. For you, there is no “War on Drugs”.

Next time you consider joining the Space Cadets, please check local laws and regulations and recent declarations of war relevant to you.

FFS.

Tell that to people who have been denied jobs, passports, visas, etc because they go busted for possession in their university years.

Evidence please, Jethro.

And don’t send me some youtube link from the show “COPS” either. Something relevant.

I think pot should be legalized so ppl can grow and smoke their own rather than giving money to protected organized dope growers who don’t even smoke and kill ppl over their multi million dollar plantations. It is not dangerous to grow a garden.

Illegal chemical drugs makers should be prosecuted. It is dangerous to cook drugs as things explode… and the smell …. yuk… puke puke puke…

Diggety said :

Dear Progressives and Stoners,

Lay down your arms and allay your fears. For you, there is no “War on Drugs”.

Next time you consider joining the Space Cadets, please check local laws and regulations and recent declarations of war relevant to you.

FFS.

Tell that to people who have been denied jobs, passports, visas, etc because they go busted for possession in their university years.

Not all dope users are dopes – I know a lot of high-earning, high-performing people who simply prefer to have a smoke after work instead of a glass of wine.

Also, a good friend of mine who has been a cop for over twenty years reckons it is simple to tell people who are DUI whether it be alcohol or dope – a drunk driver does 100km in a 60 zone, runs the red light and overtakes dangerously…whereas someone who’s been smoking drives between 59 and 61, stops for the amber light and indicates exactly twenty metres before turning…

Dear Progressives and Stoners,

Lay down your arms and allay your fears. For you, there is no “War on Drugs”.

Next time you consider joining the Space Cadets, please check local laws and regulations and recent declarations of war relevant to you.

FFS.

OpenYourMind7:31 pm 11 Nov 11

“The war we need to fight is on the societal conditions that lead people to seek the escape that recreational drugs provide.”

It’s not about societal conditions. Society has been using drugs since society began. In fact the only society that didn’t use drugs were the Innuit, but it’s been recently discovered that they fermented igloo fungus. It’s part of the human condition to use drugs, the thing that varies is what’s illegal and what’s not.

JimJones: HD
chewy14: C
fgzk: ouch, but yeah it’s alot more than that. My point wasn’t that they’d be done but that the fact that drugs can be sold for contraband prices and ‘cut’ gives them a huge profit margin. If these drugs were legalised the tax balloons could go towards support and rehab programs.

powerpuffpete3:13 pm 11 Nov 11

I think the severity of side-effects of some illicit drugs can be likened to the severity of the side-effects of alcohol (which is also a drug).

Would be better if the petition focussed on marijuana more for now. They’d have more support. I, personally, don’t see any benefit to legalising drugs like heroine, which from what I know about it, is an inherently addictive substance.

It’s worth acknowledging though that people will take to drugs if they want to take to drugs. In Russia there’s a drug called Crocodile (made from codeine, which eats away at human flesh). Looks like a really nasty drug but people are taking it because they’re unhappy. So is Crocodile the issue? Or is unemployment which drives them to it the issue?
http://rt.com/news/prime-time/codeine-drug-law-russia-845/

Jim Jones said :

Didn’t Ian Macdonald explain that the Taliban and Zetas get all their funding from GetUp?

Zeta I have no time for but the Taliban link to the drug trade may just be propaganda or minor involvement. It could be argued that the Taliban actually failed to hold Afghanistan because it could not raise cash to pay for its Government. Strangely most of the major players in the drug trade are actually US allies or under contract by the foreign infidels.

Money corrupts. In Afghanistan you kill for money. US dollars.

A reasonable debate is needed. None of the above seems reasonable to me. Same old propaganda.

Snoman said :

hmmm

how about some weekend homework questions for Looten and jimbob to chew on? On a global scale this time?

1. What is the Taliban the world’s largest producer of? Where does it get the majority of its funding?

2. What is the Zetas greatest source of funding?

3. What do you think that legalisation of illicit drugs would mean for these organisations?

Oh, can I have a go.

1. Is it poppies? of the opium kind?

2.Cocaine?

3. They would lose all their money because western governments would go into the production business making money from drugs?

How did I do?

Didn’t Ian Macdonald explain that the Taliban and Zetas get all their funding from GetUp?

hmmm

how about some weekend homework questions for Looten and jimbob to chew on? On a global scale this time?

1. What is the Taliban the world’s largest producer of? Where does it get the majority of its funding?

2. What is the Zetas greatest source of funding?

3. What do you think that legalisation of illicit drugs would mean for these organisations?

digitalgrub said :

What about the fact that sometimes people use these substances safely and have a really good time? In terms of active ingredients, someting like MDMA is actually quite safe for a person- it’s other rubbish the gangsters cut it with that cause most of the problems. Regulation would make it a lot safer.

Scientifically, there is no logical reason why alcohol is perfectly legal but MDMA, LSD or Cannabis is not.

There is some research that suggests that people driving under the influence of MDMA become BETTER drivers too. Better reaction times and concentration. I thought that was quite funny…

I am patiently waiting for medical MDMA to be approved because it would be really good for easing my arthritis symptoms.

And I love the “it’s illegal for a reason” argument. That really is the summum of intellectual laziness. Aka ‘herd mentality’.

Thoroughly Smashed said :

LootenPlunder said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Are you trolling or a moron? serious question and those are the only options.

So you expect everybody to just agree that the legalisation of illicit drugs is a good idea…? Not much point of a forum if people can’t express opinions! My point was, it’s illegal for a reason. So enlighten me, what is your problem with my harmless comment?

I liked your classy trivialisation of rape and murder.

But, hey, you know: rape and murder … they’re kinda victimless crimes – amIright?

colourful sydney racing identity9:54 am 11 Nov 11

LootenPlunder said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

LootenPlunder said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Are you trolling or a moron? serious question and those are the only options.

So you expect everybody to just agree that the legalisation of illicit drugs is a good idea…? Not much point of a forum if people can’t express opinions! My point was, it’s illegal for a reason. So enlighten me, what is your problem with my harmless comment?

Okay, I will take it your response is you are both a morn and trolling.

The fact that you liken the inhalation of a herb to rape and murder shows that it is not worth entering into a debate with you.

‘Illicit drugs’ refers to much more than just marijuana. Never seen the effects that manufactured drugs have on people or their families?

I stand by my comment. If you equate an individual using illegal drugs with the bruatiltiy of rape and/or murder you are either a moron or a troll. Please do the world a favour and slink back to your village/bridge and do not darken our towers again.

Make that ‘something’, not someting…damn spelling

What about the fact that sometimes people use these substances safely and have a really good time? In terms of active ingredients, someting like MDMA is actually quite safe for a person- it’s other rubbish the gangsters cut it with that cause most of the problems. Regulation would make it a lot safer.

Scientifically, there is no logical reason why alcohol is perfectly legal but MDMA, LSD or Cannabis is not.

Thoroughly Smashed9:13 am 11 Nov 11

LootenPlunder said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Are you trolling or a moron? serious question and those are the only options.

So you expect everybody to just agree that the legalisation of illicit drugs is a good idea…? Not much point of a forum if people can’t express opinions! My point was, it’s illegal for a reason. So enlighten me, what is your problem with my harmless comment?

I liked your classy trivialisation of rape and murder.

eyeLikeCarrots7:49 am 11 Nov 11

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Mully cup candidate.

farq said :

After how many years of the ‘war on drugs’ what has been achieved except keep the police, courts and prisons tied up with non violent offenders?

After all these years and all the resources we have plowed into the war, pot costs the same (or less) now as it did in the late 1980s (so really it’s dropping in cost relative to income and everything else).

It shows you something that even after a series of big busts in this town on grow houses, availability and price has not changed.

At least if pot was made legal, the government could increase the price via taxes.

Although I have no considered opinion of this debate either way (though, I would be keen to see it made legal to see if all the ‘projections’ would come true! e.g. more tax money to healthcare, a reduction in crime – especially organised..), I baulk at comments that basically state (illegal) druggies are all non-violent.
Let’s face it, with any drug, there appears to be violent incidents related to its consumption – some more than others. From a few simple RA posts earlier, witness the machete-fuelled attack on northbourne earlier this year, witness the guy with poor mental health (possibly drug-related?) self-harming himself in his ‘grow’ house a couple of times this year, witness night-after-night of alcohol-fuelled violence in civic this year (though apparently less than last year due to the new licencing laws!?). So both legal and illegal drugs can seemingly cause voilence, which is why, to me, statements like: “the ‘war on drugs’ what has been achieved except keep the police, courts and prisons tied up with non violent offenders” is a bit of an over-generalisation. Perhaps if you said “..tied up with a mix of both voilent and non-violent offenders” it would be more accurate. For example:
a) I reckon if ice were legal, there would still be cops, paramedics and ED staff being attacked every other week (and not just by boozers!), and
b) People are caught ram-raiding shops now for legal drugs to get their fix (ciggs and booze), so legalising other drugs probably won’t make all crime go away – just some of the organised distribution, surely? Won’t addicts still need $ to buy it? And considering you are saying it has currently stayed under inflation, it would likely go up if it was under govt control (taxes?), wouldn’t it?
Just playing devil’s advocate here….
I’m guessing the best we could say legalising *some* currently-illegal drugs *could* reduce *some* crime and violence?
I also have to wonder, how many of the people here proposing they should at least make pot legal are tilted more towards the ‘stoner’ than the ‘progressive’ side of the callout by the OP? Hahahaha! 🙂 Good stuff!

farq said :

After how many years of the ‘war on drugs’ what has been achieved except keep the police, courts and prisons tied up with non violent offenders?

After all these years and all the resources we have plowed into the war, pot costs the same (or less) now as it did in the late 1980s (so really it’s dropping in cost relative to income and everything else).

It shows you something that even after a series of big busts in this town on grow houses, availability and price has not changed.

At least if pot was made legal, the government could increase the price via taxes.

are you trying to put the price of a smoke up, fang? shhhh… they might read this and see more sensible advice. jb, delete fang’s post immediately! 🙂

yeah, the war on drugs has worked a treat. like the war on the taliban, mebbe we should be handing control of drugs back over to drugs and sending our boys home. bring the boys back home!

After how many years of the ‘war on drugs’ what has been achieved except keep the police, courts and prisons tied up with non violent offenders?

After all these years and all the resources we have plowed into the war, pot costs the same (or less) now as it did in the late 1980s (so really it’s dropping in cost relative to income and everything else).

It shows you something that even after a series of big busts in this town on grow houses, availability and price has not changed.

At least if pot was made legal, the government could increase the price via taxes.

Thumper said :

Classified said :

Hey – let’s have the argument about whether or not drugs should be legal. Again.

I’d rather argue about CRAZED DRUG USING CYCLISTS!

I think we should go with CRAZED DRUG USING SWAN-POKING CYCLISTS!

The war on drugs accomplishes a few things:
1. Drug revenue goes to orginised crime as opposed to the government, healthcare etc
2. Drugs are unregulated and inconsistent, increasing the risk of overdose and harm from impurities and “cuts”
3. Non violent people are convicted for simply possessing a substance for personal use

The war on drugs hasn’t done anything to stop drug use.

Here is a great quote:
“Despite arresting over 40 million people on drug charges since the start of the war on drugs — resulting in huge costs both in terms of dollars and in human lives — drugs today are more available, more potent and cheaper than ever.”

Shanski_0 said :

Drinking and smoking kills more people then illegal drugs.

If it is legalised, it will be monitored.. it will be safer for people to use… The drugs will be cleaner and OD’ing will drop.

Yep

Alcohol is incredibly addictive & harmful, the symptoms of alcoholism, both physical and social, are very similar to those of many illicit drugs. Any ideas why we’re not enforcing plain packaging? Or stricter control on alcohol sales by the government? Hint: It rhymes with ‘pultural pacceptance’.

Legalisation shifts drugs from being a criminal issue to being a health issue, it would take away alot of the ‘forbidden’ appeal of drugs, cripple the income of many criminals, introduce quality control and give existing addicts/users ALOT more options for counselling/rehabilitation.

john87_no1 said :

Classified said :

Hey – let’s have the argument about whether or not drugs should be legal. Again.

Nah a debate this time.

Yes, a mass one.

Classified said :

Hey – let’s have the argument about whether or not drugs should be legal. Again.

Nah a debate this time.

TheDancingDjinn said :

When you say “illicit drugs” did they have a list of the drugs they wanted to make legal? or was it just a “legalise the green” movement? Does anyone really want heroin or ice legal, i don’t think i can remember anyone asking for that. I could be wrong – i am human

Good question.

TheDancingDjinn4:16 pm 10 Nov 11

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

how is drug use the same as some one forceably putting their weiner or anything else in your body?

LootenPlunder said :

Again… are you unaware that drugs kill people? That people become addicted and are unable to function as normal, contributing members of society? That drugs destroy their lives and those of the people around them…? Drug abuse is responsible for a lot of the sh*t that is wrong with society. Saying that people should be able to freely consume this crap is abhorrently disrespectful.

It’s not the drugs that kill people, m’kay?

Illicit drugs have no quality control, no complaints process and no ombudsman to appeal to when things go wrong. There is a severe social stigma to using drugs, so it’s very hard to get support: you can’t just say, “hey guys, I have a drug problem, can I get some help?” (unless you want to end up in gaol and out of a job). So between the issues of quality control, product safety and stigmatisation, you end up with people dying because they overdose, inject strychnine mislabeled as heroin, or don’t have friends watching them to keep them safe while they’re high.

The association of criminal behaviour with drugs is mainly due to the proscription of drugs: it will be easy to separate the criminal element from the drug trade when the drug trade is legalised. It’s not the drugs themselves that make people criminals. If your workmate asks, “hey guys, I’m trying to quit smoking, so please go easy when I’m a bit irritable?” – most people will do what they can to help. If you workmate asks, “hey guys, I’m trying to quit heroin, so please go easy on me when I’m a bit irritable?” – most people will show them the door. Yet it’s nicotine that’s the more dangerous drug here – people suffer heroin overdoses because of changes in product quality or safety, in a similar way a smoker would have problems if they normally smoke 8mg menthols and they end up bumming a cigar.

Substance abuse is one of the many symptoms of “what is wrong with society”. Drug (ab)use is not the problem directly: the fact that it can get out of hand with no support network is yet another symptom of “what is wrong with society”. The main component of “what is wrong with society” is that we’re all humans, and everyone has different opinions about what is “right” (and thus, which set of everything else is “wrong”).

If you think drug use itself is the problem that causes “what is wrong with society”, where do you stand on alcohol consumption? Smoking? Adding sugar to food? Using Viagra to rescue a relationship? Self-hypnosis devices such as TV? Feeding kids red food colouring?

Alcohol is a social recreational drug, yet we have campaigns to prevent alcohol abusers self-destructing. Nicotine is an addictive carcinogen which poses an environmental hazard to those not directly consuming it, yet it is legal and there are campaigns to help people quit. TV is accepted as an essential part of any modern house, yet nobody bats an eyelid when we find that people are spending upwards of four hours a day sitting in front of it doing nothing.

The best way to lose The War On Drugs is to start believing it’s worth fighting.

The war we need to fight is on the societal conditions that lead people to seek the escape that recreational drugs provide.

TheDancingDjinn4:13 pm 10 Nov 11

When you say “illicit drugs” did they have a list of the drugs they wanted to make legal? or was it just a “legalise the green” movement? Does anyone really want heroin or ice legal, i don’t think i can remember anyone asking for that. I could be wrong – i am human

LootenPlunder said :

Bails said :

LootenPlunder said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Are you trolling or a moron? serious question and those are the only options.

So you expect everybody to just agree that the legalisation of illicit drugs is a good idea…? Not much point of a forum if people can’t express opinions! My point was, it’s illegal for a reason. So enlighten me, what is your problem with my harmless comment?

That you’re calling people idiots when they express a perfectly valid opinion?

Have you actually considered this issue? Or are you just a naive 70 year old who says ‘drugs are bad’. I dare you to compare drug use to rape to a young girl who has been raped, or a family who has had their child murdered. It’s the most abhorrently disrespectful thing I’ve heard on this website to date.

Again… are you unaware that drugs kill people? That people become addicted and are unable to function as normal, contributing members of society? That drugs destroy their lives and those of the people around them…? Drug abuse is responsible for a lot of the sh*t that is wrong with society. Saying that people should be able to freely consume this crap is abhorrently disrespectful.

The reason it affects society is because people beg, murder and steal for the stuff. If it was legal they wouldn’t have to (as much). People misuse alcohol every weekend in this town to excess, we have tried banning illicit drugs for the past 70 years in this country and it clearly hasn’t worked. So how can you place such blind faith in not legalising drugs. How can you be 100% certain that the problems experienced by our society today are not cause by the prohibition. You dont. Another option exists.

Classified said :

Hey – let’s have the argument about whether or not drugs should be legal. Again.

I’d rather argue about CRAZED DRUG USING CYCLISTS!

LootenPlunder said :

Bails said :

LootenPlunder said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Are you trolling or a moron? serious question and those are the only options.

So you expect everybody to just agree that the legalisation of illicit drugs is a good idea…? Not much point of a forum if people can’t express opinions! My point was, it’s illegal for a reason. So enlighten me, what is your problem with my harmless comment?

That you’re calling people idiots when they express a perfectly valid opinion?

Have you actually considered this issue? Or are you just a naive 70 year old who says ‘drugs are bad’. I dare you to compare drug use to rape to a young girl who has been raped, or a family who has had their child murdered. It’s the most abhorrently disrespectful thing I’ve heard on this website to date.

Again… are you unaware that drugs kill people? That people become addicted and are unable to function as normal, contributing members of society? That drugs destroy their lives and those of the people around them…? Drug abuse is responsible for a lot of the sh*t that is wrong with society. Saying that people should be able to freely consume this crap is abhorrently disrespectful.

Drinking and smoking kills more people then illegal drugs.

If it is legalised, it will be monitored.. it will be safer for people to use… The drugs will be cleaner and OD’ing will drop.

LootenPlunder said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Are you trolling or a moron? serious question and those are the only options.

So you expect everybody to just agree that the legalisation of illicit drugs is a good idea…? Not much point of a forum if people can’t express opinions! My point was, it’s illegal for a reason. So enlighten me, what is your problem with my harmless comment?

Why is it illegal? Is the question you should asking. I think you will find that most drugs the Australian Govt has banned was legislated off the back of American/British drug policy. Drugs themselves, pros and cons, have never really been debated openly by Parliament. I dont take kindly to people banning things when conclusive reasons haven’t been provided as to why.

We ban things based on research completed overseas by foreign governments who have their own agendas. That’s what I am concerned about.

I mean jeeze, it was one of first plants that came over with the first fleet! Used extensively in this country until it was banned in the 1920’s. Never to be reviewed again. Doesn’t that seem wrong to you?

LootenPlunder said :

Bails said :

LootenPlunder said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Are you trolling or a moron? serious question and those are the only options.

So you expect everybody to just agree that the legalisation of illicit drugs is a good idea…? Not much point of a forum if people can’t express opinions! My point was, it’s illegal for a reason. So enlighten me, what is your problem with my harmless comment?

That you’re calling people idiots when they express a perfectly valid opinion?

Have you actually considered this issue? Or are you just a naive 70 year old who says ‘drugs are bad’. I dare you to compare drug use to rape to a young girl who has been raped, or a family who has had their child murdered. It’s the most abhorrently disrespectful thing I’ve heard on this website to date.

Again… are you unaware that drugs kill people? That people become addicted and are unable to function as normal, contributing members of society? That drugs destroy their lives and those of the people around them…? Drug abuse is responsible for a lot of the sh*t that is wrong with society. Saying that people should be able to freely consume this crap is abhorrently disrespectful.

Well done, we’re almost there…

Now, what is the cause of these problems? Is it perhaps having to resort to crime to feed their addiction? Is it the impurities of the drugs which cause violent reactions? Or, perhaps it’s the multi-million dollar profits the drug makers and dealers make, and the crime associated in protecting that investment?

Now, stay with me here.. What effect do you think legalisation might have on these issues?

Moreover, do you honestly think that individuals that smoke marijuana represent the most dangerous criminals in society?

Go back to church.

LootenPlunder3:44 pm 10 Nov 11

Bails said :

LootenPlunder said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Are you trolling or a moron? serious question and those are the only options.

So you expect everybody to just agree that the legalisation of illicit drugs is a good idea…? Not much point of a forum if people can’t express opinions! My point was, it’s illegal for a reason. So enlighten me, what is your problem with my harmless comment?

That you’re calling people idiots when they express a perfectly valid opinion?

Have you actually considered this issue? Or are you just a naive 70 year old who says ‘drugs are bad’. I dare you to compare drug use to rape to a young girl who has been raped, or a family who has had their child murdered. It’s the most abhorrently disrespectful thing I’ve heard on this website to date.

Again… are you unaware that drugs kill people? That people become addicted and are unable to function as normal, contributing members of society? That drugs destroy their lives and those of the people around them…? Drug abuse is responsible for a lot of the sh*t that is wrong with society. Saying that people should be able to freely consume this crap is abhorrently disrespectful.

LootenPlunder3:38 pm 10 Nov 11

colourful sydney racing identity said :

LootenPlunder said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Are you trolling or a moron? serious question and those are the only options.

So you expect everybody to just agree that the legalisation of illicit drugs is a good idea…? Not much point of a forum if people can’t express opinions! My point was, it’s illegal for a reason. So enlighten me, what is your problem with my harmless comment?

Okay, I will take it your response is you are both a morn and trolling.

The fact that you liken the inhalation of a herb to rape and murder shows that it is not worth entering into a debate with you.

‘Illicit drugs’ refers to much more than just marijuana. Never seen the effects that manufactured drugs have on people or their families?

LootenPlunder said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Are you trolling or a moron? serious question and those are the only options.

So you expect everybody to just agree that the legalisation of illicit drugs is a good idea…? Not much point of a forum if people can’t express opinions! My point was, it’s illegal for a reason. So enlighten me, what is your problem with my harmless comment?

That you’re calling people idiots when they express a perfectly valid opinion?

Have you actually considered this issue? Or are you just a naive 70 year old who says ‘drugs are bad’. I dare you to compare drug use to rape to a young girl who has been raped, or a family who has had their child murdered. It’s the most abhorrently disrespectful thing I’ve heard on this website to date.

colourful sydney racing identity3:34 pm 10 Nov 11

LootenPlunder said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Are you trolling or a moron? serious question and those are the only options.

So you expect everybody to just agree that the legalisation of illicit drugs is a good idea…? Not much point of a forum if people can’t express opinions! My point was, it’s illegal for a reason. So enlighten me, what is your problem with my harmless comment?

Okay, I will take it your response is you are both a morn and trolling.

The fact that you liken the inhalation of a herb to rape and murder shows that it is not worth entering into a debate with you.

Hey – let’s have the argument about whether or not drugs should be legal. Again.

No chance of this happening.

Although It would be funny if at the same time as the government is trying to restrict gambling, cigarettes and alcohol, they relaxed restrictions on currently illegal drugs.

LootenPlunder3:29 pm 10 Nov 11

colourful sydney racing identity said :

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Are you trolling or a moron? serious question and those are the only options.

So you expect everybody to just agree that the legalisation of illicit drugs is a good idea…? Not much point of a forum if people can’t express opinions! My point was, it’s illegal for a reason. So enlighten me, what is your problem with my harmless comment?

mareva said :

Portugal legalised heroin. It was successful.

Successful in what? Making it Legal? That’s usually the result of legalising something.

colourful sydney racing identity3:20 pm 10 Nov 11

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Are you trolling or a moron? serious question and those are the only options.

Portugal legalised heroin. It was successful.

LootenPlunder3:10 pm 10 Nov 11

john87_no1 said :

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Yeah lets not change legislation that clearly doesnt work.

Idiot.

a) Obviously sarcasm and
b) Prohibition of illicit drugs “works”…?
or
c) Was there supposed to be a comma in your sentence, suggesting “Let’s not change legislation, that clearly doesn’t work?”

LootenPlunder said :

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

Yeah lets not change legislation that clearly doesnt work.

Idiot.

LootenPlunder2:37 pm 10 Nov 11

Wow… while they’re at it why don’t they try to legalise rape and murder?

Idiots.

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