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Capital Metro Consultation Heads to Dickson

By Canfan 11 July 2014 39

As a part of the ongoing Capital Metro consultation, agency staff will be at the Dickson Shopping Centre tomorrow (12 July) to discuss the proposed design for light rail in Canberra.

Minister for Capital Metro, Simon Corbell, urged Canberrans to visit Dickson to have their say on how they want light rail to look.

“There will be information for you to comment on, learn about and ask questions of agency staff,” Mr Corbell said.

“As this is an early design, no decisions have been made on the final product, so this is the most opportune time to influence the end design.”

The design proposal has been based on in-depth planning and builds on previous community feedback.

“The feedback provided during this consultation will feed into next stages of design, which will provide the basis for expressions of interest later this year.

“It is vital the community take the opportunity to provide their feedback on how they would like the system to look and operate.

“Light Rail will deliver so much more than a transport benefit for Canberra and this is why the government has been so intent on planning for Canberra’s future. We are committed to delivering city-changing infrastructure and look forward to hearing what the community have to say about these great designs.”

Capital Metro will be at the Dickson Shopping Centre, near Woolworths, between 9.30am and 1.30pm. In case of bad weather, the team will be in the Dickson Library.

(Simon Corbell Media Release)

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Capital Metro Consultation Heads to Dickson
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rosscoact 2:40 pm 22 Jul 14

dungfungus said :

davo101 said :

dungfungus said :

davo101 said :

dungfungus said :

Why waste time comparing things that will never happen?

As a lesson in how to interpret numbers.

Do people actually do that sort of stuff as a paid job?

Do you mean teaching or carrying out feasibility studies? In both cases, yes. I know some guys at CSIRO who spent a great deal of time looking for dam sites across Northern Australia, none of which will ever be built. Spending time and effort showing that something shouldn’t be done is as useful as showing that other things should.

I can only remember a few things from economic studies. One rule resonates loudly namely “production is the result of demand”. In the case of light rail there is no demand so it follows that it should not be built.
So, are you trying to tell me that figures can be contrived to invent demand?

You might need to hit the books again Dungers.

dungfungus 10:30 am 22 Jul 14

davo101 said :

dungfungus said :

davo101 said :

dungfungus said :

Why waste time comparing things that will never happen?

As a lesson in how to interpret numbers.

Do people actually do that sort of stuff as a paid job?

Do you mean teaching or carrying out feasibility studies? In both cases, yes. I know some guys at CSIRO who spent a great deal of time looking for dam sites across Northern Australia, none of which will ever be built. Spending time and effort showing that something shouldn’t be done is as useful as showing that other things should.

I can only remember a few things from economic studies. One rule resonates loudly namely “production is the result of demand”. In the case of light rail there is no demand so it follows that it should not be built.
So, are you trying to tell me that figures can be contrived to invent demand?

davo101 9:51 am 22 Jul 14

dungfungus said :

davo101 said :

dungfungus said :

Why waste time comparing things that will never happen?

As a lesson in how to interpret numbers.

Do people actually do that sort of stuff as a paid job?

Do you mean teaching or carrying out feasibility studies? In both cases, yes. I know some guys at CSIRO who spent a great deal of time looking for dam sites across Northern Australia, none of which will ever be built. Spending time and effort showing that something shouldn’t be done is as useful as showing that other things should.

dungfungus 9:32 am 22 Jul 14

davo101 said :

dungfungus said :

Why waste time comparing things that will never happen?

As a lesson in how to interpret numbers.

Do people actually do that sort of stuff as a paid job?

davo101 7:52 pm 21 Jul 14

dungfungus said :

Why waste time comparing things that will never happen?

As a lesson in how to interpret numbers.

dungfungus 3:05 pm 21 Jul 14

davo101 said :

Me2 said :

Given you mentioned the (off topic) VFT, the latest report by the Feds showed a BCR of 2.3 for an east coast line. Hardly in the same ‘fantasy’ category as Capital Metro’s 1.02 or whatever it is

You’ve got to be careful to compare like-with-like. The HSR has a BCR of 1.1 when calculated with the same discount rate as the Tram plan number (7% pa.).

Why waste time comparing things that will never happen?

davo101 9:41 am 21 Jul 14

Me2 said :

Given you mentioned the (off topic) VFT, the latest report by the Feds showed a BCR of 2.3 for an east coast line. Hardly in the same ‘fantasy’ category as Capital Metro’s 1.02 or whatever it is

You’ve got to be careful to compare like-with-like. The HSR has a BCR of 1.1 when calculated with the same discount rate as the Tram plan number (7% pa.).

Me2 1:49 pm 20 Jul 14

dungfungus said :

Me2 said :

dungfungus said :

High speed train crashes at low speed:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28358137

How on earth is this relevant?

It is relevant because if I didn’t draw your attention to it you wouldn’t have known about it would you.
The ABC and Fairfax Media only want “good news” about rail.
Remember, the VFT is another fantasy of The Greens so anything that can dent that dream is going to help save Australian taxpayers from another white elephant like the Canberra light rail project.

Thank you for enlightening me, perhaps I hadn’t heard about it because it is completely irrelevant. You’re clearly against the Capital Metro project going ahead and that’s fine- I am to and there’s plenty of valid arguments as to why it shouldn’t be built. However you seem to be saying that because a HSR train (a completely different mode of rail transport) crashed in France, we shouldn’t build a light rail system here, presumably because it might be involved in an accident as well. Quite ridiculous. Should we also not build any more roads because cars/buses/trucks might (will) crash as well?
You obviously read a different Canberra Times to me, are these the ‘good news’ articles you’re referring to?
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/productivity-commission-casts-doubt-on-light-rail-benefits-20140714-zt75q.html
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/a-simple-sanity-check-on-canberras-light-rail-project-20140716-ztlm0.html
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/liberals-question-light-rail-passenger-figures-20140709-zt152.html
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/tuggeranong-council-votes-against-light-rail-project-20140703-zsvad.html
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/study-commissioned-by-act-liberals-finds-canberra-light-rail-is-not-viable-20140611-zs44o.html

Given you mentioned the (off topic) VFT, the latest report by the Feds showed a BCR of 2.3 for an east coast line. Hardly in the same ‘fantasy’ category as Capital Metro’s 1.02 or whatever it is

dungfungus 10:42 am 20 Jul 14

bundah said :

dungfungus said :

bundah said :

Me2 said :

dungfungus said :

High speed train crashes at low speed:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28358137

How on earth is this relevant?

Well the big white elephant will have to be as quick as the TGV to make it viable or it’ll be derailed….

Bundah, I applaud your intellect to see relevance where few others can (or won’t).

Dungers I may not agree with all your perspectives, particularly on climate change, however I do acknowledge that you’re respectful and don’t resort to personal abuse unlike some. Oh and not that I have tickets on myself, much, but sound judgement requires an ability to foresee the potential consequences of one’s actions which is something that appears to be lacking in the legislative assembly, particularly in regard to this obsession with light rail.

Thanks for those comments. Together, we can get the trams to stop running, least of all ontime.
Regarding my perspective on climate change, I do agree that the climate changes but not due to the presence of humans or “carbon emissions”. No amount of modelling by the climate change industry is going to convince me otherwise and when you get the alarmists on ABC TV Catalyst last week using video grabs from the Japan tsunami and inland floods in Australia to illustrate what rising sea levels are doing now, any credibility these people may have had just evaporates like dam water in a drought.

bundah 9:43 am 19 Jul 14

dungfungus said :

bundah said :

Me2 said :

dungfungus said :

High speed train crashes at low speed:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28358137

How on earth is this relevant?

Well the big white elephant will have to be as quick as the TGV to make it viable or it’ll be derailed….

Bundah, I applaud your intellect to see relevance where few others can (or won’t).

Dungers I may not agree with all your perspectives, particularly on climate change, however I do acknowledge that you’re respectful and don’t resort to personal abuse unlike some. Oh and not that I have tickets on myself, much, but sound judgement requires an ability to foresee the potential consequences of one’s actions which is something that appears to be lacking in the legislative assembly, particularly in regard to this obsession with light rail.

dungfungus 7:04 pm 18 Jul 14

bundah said :

Me2 said :

dungfungus said :

High speed train crashes at low speed:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28358137

How on earth is this relevant?

Well the big white elephant will have to be as quick as the TGV to make it viable or it’ll be derailed….

Bundah, I applaud your intellect to see relevance where few others can (or won’t).

dungfungus 7:03 pm 18 Jul 14

Me2 said :

dungfungus said :

High speed train crashes at low speed:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28358137

How on earth is this relevant?

It is relevant because if I didn’t draw your attention to it you wouldn’t have known about it would you.
The ABC and Fairfax Media only want “good news” about rail.
Remember, the VFT is another fantasy of The Greens so anything that can dent that dream is going to help save Australian taxpayers from another white elephant like the Canberra light rail project.

HiddenDragon 6:35 pm 18 Jul 14

The hoped-for funding assistance from the Federal Government is looking even less likely now, as a result of another stand-off with the Senate over the Asset Recycling Fund Bill:

“….One of the Labor amendments would ensure those infrastructure projects worth more than $100m were assessed by Infrastructure Australia with a published cost-benefit analysis.

Abetz said the asset recycling legislation was an “essential part” of the government’s agenda to build the infrastructure of the 21st century and create jobs, and it was important that the fund be able to operate without the particular impediments proposed by the Senate.

But the Labor senator Doug Cameron said the requirement for a proper cost-benefit analysis was in line with previous Coalition rhetoric about the need for checks and balances on the spending of billions of dollars in public money.”

[Full report here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/coalitions-asset-recycling-scheme-watered-down-in-senate ]

Of course, this minor….. detail will be brushed aside, and the rhetoric about vision (Grifin and otherwise) and (unmeasurable, ill-defined) benefits will be cranked up – with the ever growing certainty that all Canberra rates and taxpayers will be lumbered with the full bill for the trams.

bundah 5:04 pm 18 Jul 14

Me2 said :

dungfungus said :

High speed train crashes at low speed:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28358137

How on earth is this relevant?

Well the big white elephant will have to be as quick as the TGV to make it viable or it’ll be derailed….

pajs 2:20 pm 18 Jul 14

Me2 said :

dungfungus said :

High speed train crashes at low speed:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28358137

How on earth is this relevant?

To be fair, Dungers doesn’t really do ‘relevant’.

Me2 11:18 am 18 Jul 14

dungfungus said :

High speed train crashes at low speed:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28358137

How on earth is this relevant?

dungfungus 8:42 am 18 Jul 14

High speed train crashes at low speed:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28358137

Masquara 10:04 pm 17 Jul 14

dungfungus said :

HiddenDragon said :

dungfungus said :

Simon Corbell is working hard to save the light rail. Why this is published in the Brisbane Times is a mystery (well it’s Fairfax Media’s way I guess).
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/comment/rail-network-has-proven-its-benefits-worldwide-20140715-zt7pf.html

An identical (or very similar?) piece in the CT had this paragraph, which says it all

“It is true that the benefit cost ratio for bus rapid was higher than for light rail – but there are important benefits beyond economic return that a BCR does not consider. And importantly in Canberra’s case, the light rail project Capital Metro is not just a public transport project – it is the glue that holds together the city’s urban renewal plans. “

Had the “Griffin Vision” provided us with potential rail corridors not criss-crossed by significant roads, and a truly viable economic and population base for such major infrastructure, there might be some rationality to it – as it is, we have something which is looking more and more like a hugely expensive fashion statement.

The “Griffin vision” is dug out and dusted off only when necessary. When you look at it in it’s entirety it has nothing to do with social glue and all that nonsense.
Griffin was simply referring to trams as way of moving people and indeed, the first noises about the Capital Metro “vision” before the 2012 were solely about moving people.
It didn’t stack up them and no matter what is tacked on to it won’t stack up now or in the future.

Indeed. Canberra Hospital was on the Griffin plan for goodness sake!

dungfungus 8:57 pm 17 Jul 14

HiddenDragon said :

dungfungus said :

Simon Corbell is working hard to save the light rail. Why this is published in the Brisbane Times is a mystery (well it’s Fairfax Media’s way I guess).
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/comment/rail-network-has-proven-its-benefits-worldwide-20140715-zt7pf.html

An identical (or very similar?) piece in the CT had this paragraph, which says it all

“It is true that the benefit cost ratio for bus rapid was higher than for light rail – but there are important benefits beyond economic return that a BCR does not consider. And importantly in Canberra’s case, the light rail project Capital Metro is not just a public transport project – it is the glue that holds together the city’s urban renewal plans. “

Had the “Griffin Vision” provided us with potential rail corridors not criss-crossed by significant roads, and a truly viable economic and population base for such major infrastructure, there might be some rationality to it – as it is, we have something which is looking more and more like a hugely expensive fashion statement.

The “Griffin vision” is dug out and dusted off only when necessary. When you look at it in it’s entirety it has nothing to do with social glue and all that nonsense.
Griffin was simply referring to trams as way of moving people and indeed, the first noises about the Capital Metro “vision” before the 2012 were solely about moving people.
It didn’t stack up them and no matter what is tacked on to it won’t stack up now or in the future.

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