Capital Metro consultation heads to Gunghalin

rommeldog56 said :

gooterz said :

A better question would be how many MLA’s are going to commit to using light rail. If none of them are we should abandon it.

How many Gov’t MLAs would live within the 800 metres of the tram track anyway ?

I assume all MLAs get taxpayers funded cars + free (or low cost) parking ?

Apart from a few initial publicity shots, I would think that Gov’t MLAs would be regular commuters alongside the Ratepayers who will be paying for it. There is going to be a lot more MLAs soonish, so maybe some will.

When that happens, they can do away with the privileged parking spots right outside the Assembly Building and let the MLAs take their chances in the public carparks.

CapMetroACT said :

Capital Metro’s aim is to start construction by mid 2016….There are no guarantees if there is a change of government.

I’m pretty sure everyone is aware of the concept of the poison pill. Once those contracts are signed there’s no going back.

bigfeet said :

bundah said :

It is now perfectly clear to me that Corbell is determined for light rail to become a reality which will become his legacy for Canberra as he nears retirement from the assembly.

This was the response Capital Metro gave at the May Gunghalin Community Council meeting of 14 May.

Q: What guarantees do we have for the project to continue if there is a change in the government?
A: Current government wants to have project underway before the next election to avoid it being cut.

source: http://www.gcc.asn.au/meeting-minutes/public-meeting-14-may-2014

Its obvious that any ‘consultation’ taking place is purely cosmetic. Canberra is getting this white elephant whether we want or need it. No matter what anyone says.

Unfortunately there was an error in compiling of the minutes from this meeting and Gungahlin Community Council is in the process of amending these.

For the record, the response to the question as delivered by Emma Thomas, Project Director was that Capital Metro’s aim is to start construction by mid 2016. Our aim is to do this in a way that delivers a lot of value for the community. There are no guarantees if there is a change of government.

gooterz said :

A better question would be how many MLA’s are going to commit to using light rail. If none of them are we should abandon it.

How many Gov’t MLAs would live within the 800 metres of the tram track anyway ?

I assume all MLAs get taxpayers funded cars + free (or low cost) parking ?

Apart from a few initial publicity shots, I would think that Gov’t MLAs would be regular commuters alongside the Ratepayers who will be paying for it. There is going to be a lot more MLAs soonish, so maybe some will.

A better question would be how many MLA’s are going to commit to using light rail. If none of them are we should abandon it.

Ian said :

JessP said :

How about some consultation at Woden, Tuggeranong or Belconnen?

We are paying for this white elephant as well or doesnt what we think count?

Can’t have that. People not directly benefitting from the tram might have inconveniently negative opinions.

Well why don’t you take some public transport and get yourself to the consultation?

Ian said :

JessP said :

How about some consultation at Woden, Tuggeranong or Belconnen?

We are paying for this white elephant as well or doesnt what we think count?

Can’t have that. People not directly benefitting from the tram might have inconveniently negative opinions.

This is the same situation that applied when ActewAGL introduced TransACT which was essentially a “me too, pet product” just like the light rail is.
The only Canberran’s who could get a service from TransACT were those with power poles in their backyards. All the newer suburbs with underground power missed out but they still had to share the cost of ActewAGL’s investment in the joint venture (and then the $50 million plus loss that was the outcome).
Ironic that once again, poles (ugly ones at that) will be needed to hang the tram wires and the only suburbs to get the tram service will be the ones “where the poles are”.

JessP said :

How about some consultation at Woden, Tuggeranong or Belconnen?

We are paying for this white elephant as well or doesnt what we think count?

Can’t have that. People not directly benefitting from the tram might have inconveniently negative opinions.

JessP said :

How about some consultation at Woden, Tuggeranong or Belconnen?

We are paying for this white elephant as well or doesn’t what we think count?

Yep – in Tuggers, we have been patiently waiting for the duplication of the rest of Erindale Drive and Ashley Drive. I’m not sure when or if thats on the Capital Works program.

So, given that, how long do u think it will take to get the toy train set to Tuggeranong ??? It beggers belief.

How about some consultation at Woden, Tuggeranong or Belconnen? We are paying for this white elephant as well or doesnt what we think count?

bigfeet said :

Masquara said :

My straw poll of one says, I would walk max five minutes to a light rail station – and only use light rail if there was no chance of having to walk more than five minutes from any station to where I want to be. Oh, and this straw poll would NOT walk all the way across Civic (eg from Nishi to Northbourne) to catch light rail. I’d pay $12 a day parking ahead of catch light rail, unless that light rail is utterly convenient.

Can I add to your straw poll. My answers would be almost identical to yours, except that the five minutes might be a bit less in the dead of winter, and the tram had better be there exactly when I get to the station. I’m not planning to hang around in the fog, rain, cold, wind or heat. If thats not possible I’ll just take my car.

So with these two answers I would submit that we already have done more research than Capital Metro has ever done on this topic.

I dunno what the problem is. The powers that be in the ACT Gov’t seem to be infinitely more knowledgeable – aided and abetted by a myriad of Consultants that they paid for – and more wise that what I believe would be the majority of folk in Canberra who either don’t support the Light Rail or don’t think it should happen right now.

But, what would we all know……..

It is reported from the Deep North that on the official opening day of the new Gold Coast light rail yesterday, over 55,000 people travelled on it.

It is further reported that all trips were free.

Masquara said :

My straw poll of one says, I would walk max five minutes to a light rail station – and only use light rail if there was no chance of having to walk more than five minutes from any station to where I want to be. Oh, and this straw poll would NOT walk all the way across Civic (eg from Nishi to Northbourne) to catch light rail. I’d pay $12 a day parking ahead of catch light rail, unless that light rail is utterly convenient.

Can I add to your straw poll. My answers would be almost identical to yours, except that the five minutes might be a bit less in the dead of winter, and the tram had better be there exactly when I get to the station. I’m not planning to hang around in the fog, rain, cold, wind or heat. If thats not possible I’ll just take my car.

So with these two answers I would submit that we already have done more research than Capital Metro has ever done on this topic.

davo101 said :

Masquara said :

“Seem to be”? These research details need to be sniffed out and published.

To quote this paper from 2008:

There is not a well-established literature providing firm answers to either of the paper’s two main research questions about how far pedestrians walk and the factors that influence their route choice. While there are many rules of thumb and educated guesses, relatively little research exists on walking behaviour in general, and these topics in particular.

The “half-mile” rule of thumb is based on walking to a heavy-rail station, the “quarter-mile” on walking to a bus stop. The problem with finding research on light rail is that this term covers everything from “streetcars” to just short of full-blown heavy-rail–so picture anything between standing in the middle of a Melbourne street to waiting at Parramatta Station and how attractive a proposition that is.

My straw poll of one says, I would walk max five minutes to a light rail station – and only use light rail if there was no chance of having to walk more than five minutes from any station to where I want to be. Oh, and this straw poll would NOT walk all the way across Civic (eg from Nishi to Northbourne) to catch light rail. I’d pay $12 a day parking ahead of catch light rail, unless that light rail is utterly convenient.

damien haas said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

“It is vital the community take the opportunity to provide their feedback on how they would like the system to look and operate.”
The community seems to want it to look like the wireless green and white vehicles that run along our existing road infrastructure, capable of taking alternate routes if necessary and operate much like the present transport solution called ACTION buses. Don’t they get it yet? If it is so vital, why aren’t they listening?
Four hours of consultation in each of two of the areas affected is not a very maximal approach. How about a website or email address where Canberrans can speak their voice, instead of obtaining the feedback from those most likely to support it in a small window of limited opportunity?

Canberrans clearly prefer a different mode of public transport:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/adult-bus-passenger-numbers-stagnating-20120729-236tk.html

Agree – One and a half hours to get 30km when it only takes 30 minutes by car, then having to walk 3km to get the next bus home because there are no stops there, an hour trip almost home with another 2km walk to finish the journey. 5km of leg work, 2.5 hours on the bus and $4.80 for the pleasure. It is a joke. [I can provide details of the route if anyone wishes to disprove these facts, also the times would have been increased by over an hour had I been stubborn enough to wait for buses that came nearby the departure addresses, but I was pushed for time and could not wait the 45 minutes for the next hourly delivery].
However, it is better than a tram that doesn’t help me get anywhere except from one major hub to another major hub.

dungfungus said :

damien haas said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

“It is vital the community take the opportunity to provide their feedback on how they would like the system to look and operate.”
The community seems to want it to look like the wireless green and white vehicles that run along our existing road infrastructure, capable of taking alternate routes if necessary and operate much like the present transport solution called ACTION buses. Don’t they get it yet? If it is so vital, why aren’t they listening?
Four hours of consultation in each of two of the areas affected is not a very maximal approach. How about a website or email address where Canberrans can speak their voice, instead of obtaining the feedback from those most likely to support it in a small window of limited opportunity?

Canberrans clearly prefer a different mode of public transport:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/adult-bus-passenger-numbers-stagnating-20120729-236tk.html

Yes, Damien. It is called driving a car. So much more convenient and they have never been cheaper to buy and maintain although the cost registering them is becoming a bit of an impost.

In a town like Canberra (or surrounds) a car is practically mandatory unless you’re living inner north or easy walking distance to a major town centre.

And yes, they are really quite cheap these days, and vastly preferable to a bus for personal comfort.

Of course, I’d be happy to take a bus into work sometimes if they weren’t so incredibly slow (time-wise).

damien haas said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

“It is vital the community take the opportunity to provide their feedback on how they would like the system to look and operate.”
The community seems to want it to look like the wireless green and white vehicles that run along our existing road infrastructure, capable of taking alternate routes if necessary and operate much like the present transport solution called ACTION buses. Don’t they get it yet? If it is so vital, why aren’t they listening?
Four hours of consultation in each of two of the areas affected is not a very maximal approach. How about a website or email address where Canberrans can speak their voice, instead of obtaining the feedback from those most likely to support it in a small window of limited opportunity?

Canberrans clearly prefer a different mode of public transport:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/adult-bus-passenger-numbers-stagnating-20120729-236tk.html

Yes, Damien. It is called driving a car. So much more convenient and they have never been cheaper to buy and maintain although the cost registering them is becoming a bit of an impost.

bundah said :

It is now perfectly clear to me that Corbell is determined for light rail to become a reality which will become his legacy for Canberra as he nears retirement from the assembly.

When thinking about this fiscal disaster-in-the-making, I am often reminded of The Hollowmen episode ‘The Edifice Complex’.

wildturkeycanoe said :

“It is vital the community take the opportunity to provide their feedback on how they would like the system to look and operate.”
The community seems to want it to look like the wireless green and white vehicles that run along our existing road infrastructure, capable of taking alternate routes if necessary and operate much like the present transport solution called ACTION buses. Don’t they get it yet? If it is so vital, why aren’t they listening?
Four hours of consultation in each of two of the areas affected is not a very maximal approach. How about a website or email address where Canberrans can speak their voice, instead of obtaining the feedback from those most likely to support it in a small window of limited opportunity?

Canberrans clearly prefer a different mode of public transport:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/adult-bus-passenger-numbers-stagnating-20120729-236tk.html

Masquara said :

“Seem to be”? These research details need to be sniffed out and published.

To quote this paper from 2008:

There is not a well-established literature providing firm answers to either of the paper’s two main research questions about how far pedestrians walk and the factors that influence their route choice. While there are many rules of thumb and educated guesses, relatively little research exists on walking behaviour in general, and these topics in particular.

The “half-mile” rule of thumb is based on walking to a heavy-rail station, the “quarter-mile” on walking to a bus stop. The problem with finding research on light rail is that this term covers everything from “streetcars” to just short of full-blown heavy-rail–so picture anything between standing in the middle of a Melbourne street to waiting at Parramatta Station and how attractive a proposition that is.

“It is vital the community take the opportunity to provide their feedback on how they would like the system to look and operate.”
The community seems to want it to look like the wireless green and white vehicles that run along our existing road infrastructure, capable of taking alternate routes if necessary and operate much like the present transport solution called ACTION buses. Don’t they get it yet? If it is so vital, why aren’t they listening?
Four hours of consultation in each of two of the areas affected is not a very maximal approach. How about a website or email address where Canberrans can speak their voice, instead of obtaining the feedback from those most likely to support it in a small window of limited opportunity?

gooterz said :

bigfeet said :

MERC600 said :

I missed the start of all this light rail business. Did it start from the good people out Gunga way complaining about their current bus service ( I mean were they complaining more loudly than the rest of the town about their bus service ).
Was there a campaign of letters to the editor about it, a groundswell of bitter complaints; petitions to the assembly, WIN news being requested to look at it. All that sort of thing. Or what

What happened was Katy didn’t quite get enough seats to form government in 2012, so she asked Shane Rattenbury what would make him vote with her.

He wanted a new train set, so she agreed to buy it for him.

That is about the entire extent of consultation and planning that went into this billion dollar decision.

The 6th year is Iron
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_anniversary#Traditional_and_modern_anniversary_gifts

And it was an “ironclad” agreement with The Green.
Is that “ironic” or what?

Mr Corbell keeps plying the ‘so much more’ line but doesn’t have anything whatsoever to back that up except some vague feel good policy. In fact, the opposite is true – there is a chorus of people and agencies, more knowledgable and experienced than him and his mickey mouse ‘Directorate,’ who disagree with him, including but not limited to Infrastructure Australia, Productivity Commission, and ironically even their own cost benefit analysis.
I say it again – there is none so blind as one who WILL not see. I am absolutely livid about the amount of money that they are already wasting on this unnecessary plaything when it could be far better spent on good bus rapid transport for all Canberrans.

bigfeet said :

MERC600 said :

I missed the start of all this light rail business. Did it start from the good people out Gunga way complaining about their current bus service ( I mean were they complaining more loudly than the rest of the town about their bus service ).
Was there a campaign of letters to the editor about it, a groundswell of bitter complaints; petitions to the assembly, WIN news being requested to look at it. All that sort of thing. Or what

What happened was Katy didn’t quite get enough seats to form government in 2012, so she asked Shane Rattenbury what would make him vote with her.

He wanted a new train set, so she agreed to buy it for him.

That is about the entire extent of consultation and planning that went into this billion dollar decision.

The 6th year is Iron
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_anniversary#Traditional_and_modern_anniversary_gifts

MERC600 said :

I missed the start of all this light rail business. Did it start from the good people out Gunga way complaining about their current bus service ( I mean were they complaining more loudly than the rest of the town about their bus service ).
Was there a campaign of letters to the editor about it, a groundswell of bitter complaints; petitions to the assembly, WIN news being requested to look at it. All that sort of thing. Or what

What happened was Katy didn’t quite get enough seats to form government in 2012, so she asked Shane Rattenbury what would make him vote with her.

He wanted a new train set, so she agreed to buy it for him.

That is about the entire extent of consultation and planning that went into this billion dollar decision.

MERC600 said :

I missed the start of all this light rail business. Did it start from the good people out Gunga way complaining about their current bus service ( I mean were they complaining more loudly than the rest of the town about their bus service ).
Was there a campaign of letters to the editor about it, a groundswell of bitter complaints; petitions to the assembly, WIN news being requested to look at it. All that sort of thing. Or what

I am sure Gungahlin Al would be able to answer all your questions.

bigfeet said :

source: http://www.gcc.asn.au/meeting-minutes/public-meeting-14-may-2014

“More people seem to be happy to walk further to use light rail. Research has shown that they will walk about twice the distance from a light rail stop as compared to a bus stop. People will walk through the city centre to get to the terminals. ”

“Seem to be”? These research details need to be sniffed out and published.

bigfeet said :

bundah said :

It is now perfectly clear to me that Corbell is determined for light rail to become a reality which will become his legacy for Canberra as he nears retirement from the assembly.

This was the response Capital Metro gave at the May Gunghalin Community Council meeting of 14 May.

Q: What guarantees do we have for the project to continue if there is a change in the government?
A: Current government wants to have project underway before the next election to avoid it being cut.

source: http://www.gcc.asn.au/meeting-minutes/public-meeting-14-may-2014

Its obvious that any ‘consultation’ taking place is purely cosmetic. Canberra is getting this white elephant whether we want or need it. No matter what anyone says.

Precisely and all under the guise of democracy or is that pathocracy?

I missed the start of all this light rail business. Did it start from the good people out Gunga way complaining about their current bus service ( I mean were they complaining more loudly than the rest of the town about their bus service ).
Was there a campaign of letters to the editor about it, a groundswell of bitter complaints; petitions to the assembly, WIN news being requested to look at it. All that sort of thing. Or what

When are they going to visit the rest of Canberra?

Surely whatever is adopted in the first link will have significant ramifications to what will be available for the rest of Canberra?

Are we going to have a different systems for all parts of Canberra or just going to ignore the rest of Canberra like usual?

Spending our one thousand million dollars they could at least try to pretend to care.

One thousand million dollars.

bundah said :

It is now perfectly clear to me that Corbell is determined for light rail to become a reality which will become his legacy for Canberra as he nears retirement from the assembly.

Yep. Consultation conschmultation. Pigheaded approach on this government’s part.

bundah said :

It is now perfectly clear to me that Corbell is determined for light rail to become a reality which will become his legacy for Canberra as he nears retirement from the assembly.

This was the response Capital Metro gave at the May Gunghalin Community Council meeting of 14 May.

Q: What guarantees do we have for the project to continue if there is a change in the government?
A: Current government wants to have project underway before the next election to avoid it being cut.

source: http://www.gcc.asn.au/meeting-minutes/public-meeting-14-may-2014

Its obvious that any ‘consultation’ taking place is purely cosmetic. Canberra is getting this white elephant whether we want or need it. No matter what anyone says.

It is now perfectly clear to me that Corbell is determined for light rail to become a reality which will become his legacy for Canberra as he nears retirement from the assembly.