Citizenship Birth, Choice and Abuse?

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

watto23 said :

Jon said :

“Why can’t we take it off those who are Australian born?”

Because we’ve signed up to the ‘Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness’. Article 5 reads in part: “If a law entails loss of nationality, such loss shall be conditional upon the person acquiring another nationality.”

We can remove Australian citizenship from a dual national without rendering that person stateless. If an Australian ONLY has Australian citizenship, what nationality do they then become?

While I agree that being granted citizenship of another country is an honour and privilege, under international law, everyone has the right to a nationality (article 15 of UDHR).

The government can cancel a passport though, such that when an Australian citizen returns the person will be detained, arrested if required and passport cancelled. I’m not sure if they do it often though, but it allows the person to travel until either the passport expires (usually 6 months before the expiry date is when countries stop letting you in) or they return to Australia. So no one will be stateless unless they choose to be, which may be a better option than facing court for crimes committed.

Agreed, but…. Devil’s Advocate here… Should it not be a criterium for the withdrawal of a passport, that a prma face case of broken Australian law be made? Heinous as it may be that people with dual citizenship would prefer to risk their lives for a country other than Oz, is that an actual crime? Or just something we would deplore and it would be better to name and shame?

Thoughts?

Completely agree regarding committing a crime. My main issue with Australian politics is the use of fear to win votes. Its a useful tool for politicians to use right now. In my eyes, fighting a war for another military/warlord/organisation whether we regard it right or wrong, probably isn’t a crime by default. Yet we don’t tarnish those who fight on the perceived right side of the war with the same brush. What about Australians who went to the Ukraine to protest and fight?

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

Masquara said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

watto23 said :

Jon said :

“Why can’t we take it off those who are Australian born?”

Because we’ve signed up to the ‘Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness’. Article 5 reads in part: “If a law entails loss of nationality, such loss shall be conditional upon the person acquiring another nationality.”

We can remove Australian citizenship from a dual national without rendering that person stateless. If an Australian ONLY has Australian citizenship, what nationality do they then become?

While I agree that being granted citizenship of another country is an honour and privilege, under international law, everyone has the right to a nationality (article 15 of UDHR).

The government can cancel a passport though, such that when an Australian citizen returns the person will be detained, arrested if required and passport cancelled. I’m not sure if they do it often though, but it allows the person to travel until either the passport expires (usually 6 months before the expiry date is when countries stop letting you in) or they return to Australia. So no one will be stateless unless they choose to be, which may be a better option than facing court for crimes committed.

Agreed, but…. Devil’s Advocate here… Should it not be a criterium for the withdrawal of a passport, that a prma face case of broken Australian law be made? Heinous as it may be that people with dual citizenship would prefer to risk their lives for a country other than Oz, is that an actual crime? Or just something we would deplore and it would be better to name and shame?

Thoughts?

If it isn’t a crime now, it bloody soon will be.

Interesting piece in the paper today saying Julie Bishop didn’t have a problem with Australians being in the Israeli army because that was different. How does that work?

I reckon once someone serves in an army overseas they have pledged their allegiance to that cause which is not that of Australia. And generally these people are not professional soldiers, read mercenaries.

The other thing in the paper was that most of the people in overseas outfits are not dual citizens. That poses a real problem. If their citizenship is revoked, we are in contravention of a UN convention. But the real problem is a person returning home fully trained in terrorist activities who is totally pissed off because we are denying them a right. Will we be giving them cause to use those very talents against us?

I have no solution to this only a fear.

Do you have a problem with Australians being in the Israeli army Johno? Please share your fears with us.
I am surprised you think there is a problem, I mean you being a nasho and all that.

Masquara said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

watto23 said :

Jon said :

“Why can’t we take it off those who are Australian born?”

Because we’ve signed up to the ‘Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness’. Article 5 reads in part: “If a law entails loss of nationality, such loss shall be conditional upon the person acquiring another nationality.”

We can remove Australian citizenship from a dual national without rendering that person stateless. If an Australian ONLY has Australian citizenship, what nationality do they then become?

While I agree that being granted citizenship of another country is an honour and privilege, under international law, everyone has the right to a nationality (article 15 of UDHR).

The government can cancel a passport though, such that when an Australian citizen returns the person will be detained, arrested if required and passport cancelled. I’m not sure if they do it often though, but it allows the person to travel until either the passport expires (usually 6 months before the expiry date is when countries stop letting you in) or they return to Australia. So no one will be stateless unless they choose to be, which may be a better option than facing court for crimes committed.

Agreed, but…. Devil’s Advocate here… Should it not be a criterium for the withdrawal of a passport, that a prma face case of broken Australian law be made? Heinous as it may be that people with dual citizenship would prefer to risk their lives for a country other than Oz, is that an actual crime? Or just something we would deplore and it would be better to name and shame?

Thoughts?

If it isn’t a crime now, it bloody soon will be.

Interesting piece in the paper today saying Julie Bishop didn’t have a problem with Australians being in the Israeli army because that was different. How does that work?

I reckon once someone serves in an army overseas they have pledged their allegiance to that cause which is not that of Australia. And generally these people are not professional soldiers, read mercenaries.

The other thing in the paper was that most of the people in overseas outfits are not dual citizens. That poses a real problem. If their citizenship is revoked, we are in contravention of a UN convention. But the real problem is a person returning home fully trained in terrorist activities who is totally pissed off because we are denying them a right. Will we be giving them cause to use those very talents against us?

I have no solution to this only a fear.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

watto23 said :

Jon said :

“Why can’t we take it off those who are Australian born?”

Because we’ve signed up to the ‘Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness’. Article 5 reads in part: “If a law entails loss of nationality, such loss shall be conditional upon the person acquiring another nationality.”

We can remove Australian citizenship from a dual national without rendering that person stateless. If an Australian ONLY has Australian citizenship, what nationality do they then become?

While I agree that being granted citizenship of another country is an honour and privilege, under international law, everyone has the right to a nationality (article 15 of UDHR).

The government can cancel a passport though, such that when an Australian citizen returns the person will be detained, arrested if required and passport cancelled. I’m not sure if they do it often though, but it allows the person to travel until either the passport expires (usually 6 months before the expiry date is when countries stop letting you in) or they return to Australia. So no one will be stateless unless they choose to be, which may be a better option than facing court for crimes committed.

Agreed, but…. Devil’s Advocate here… Should it not be a criterium for the withdrawal of a passport, that a prma face case of broken Australian law be made? Heinous as it may be that people with dual citizenship would prefer to risk their lives for a country other than Oz, is that an actual crime? Or just something we would deplore and it would be better to name and shame?

Thoughts?

If it isn’t a crime now, it bloody soon will be.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

watto23 said :

Jon said :

“Why can’t we take it off those who are Australian born?”

Because we’ve signed up to the ‘Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness’. Article 5 reads in part: “If a law entails loss of nationality, such loss shall be conditional upon the person acquiring another nationality.”

We can remove Australian citizenship from a dual national without rendering that person stateless. If an Australian ONLY has Australian citizenship, what nationality do they then become?

While I agree that being granted citizenship of another country is an honour and privilege, under international law, everyone has the right to a nationality (article 15 of UDHR).

The government can cancel a passport though, such that when an Australian citizen returns the person will be detained, arrested if required and passport cancelled. I’m not sure if they do it often though, but it allows the person to travel until either the passport expires (usually 6 months before the expiry date is when countries stop letting you in) or they return to Australia. So no one will be stateless unless they choose to be, which may be a better option than facing court for crimes committed.

Agreed, but…. Devil’s Advocate here… Should it not be a criterium for the withdrawal of a passport, that a prma face case of broken Australian law be made? Heinous as it may be that people with dual citizenship would prefer to risk their lives for a country other than Oz, is that an actual crime? Or just something we would deplore and it would be better to name and shame?

Thoughts?

Meant prima facie not prma face…. Bloody auto correct!

And meant criterion not criterium (that’s a bike race)… Sometimes I hate auto correct!

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

watto23 said :

Jon said :

“Why can’t we take it off those who are Australian born?”

Because we’ve signed up to the ‘Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness’. Article 5 reads in part: “If a law entails loss of nationality, such loss shall be conditional upon the person acquiring another nationality.”

We can remove Australian citizenship from a dual national without rendering that person stateless. If an Australian ONLY has Australian citizenship, what nationality do they then become?

While I agree that being granted citizenship of another country is an honour and privilege, under international law, everyone has the right to a nationality (article 15 of UDHR).

The government can cancel a passport though, such that when an Australian citizen returns the person will be detained, arrested if required and passport cancelled. I’m not sure if they do it often though, but it allows the person to travel until either the passport expires (usually 6 months before the expiry date is when countries stop letting you in) or they return to Australia. So no one will be stateless unless they choose to be, which may be a better option than facing court for crimes committed.

Agreed, but…. Devil’s Advocate here… Should it not be a criterium for the withdrawal of a passport, that a prma face case of broken Australian law be made? Heinous as it may be that people with dual citizenship would prefer to risk their lives for a country other than Oz, is that an actual crime? Or just something we would deplore and it would be better to name and shame?

Thoughts?

Meant prima facie not prma face…. Bloody auto correct!

watto23 said :

Jon said :

“Why can’t we take it off those who are Australian born?”

Because we’ve signed up to the ‘Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness’. Article 5 reads in part: “If a law entails loss of nationality, such loss shall be conditional upon the person acquiring another nationality.”

We can remove Australian citizenship from a dual national without rendering that person stateless. If an Australian ONLY has Australian citizenship, what nationality do they then become?

While I agree that being granted citizenship of another country is an honour and privilege, under international law, everyone has the right to a nationality (article 15 of UDHR).

The government can cancel a passport though, such that when an Australian citizen returns the person will be detained, arrested if required and passport cancelled. I’m not sure if they do it often though, but it allows the person to travel until either the passport expires (usually 6 months before the expiry date is when countries stop letting you in) or they return to Australia. So no one will be stateless unless they choose to be, which may be a better option than facing court for crimes committed.

Agreed, but…. Devil’s Advocate here… Should it not be a criterium for the withdrawal of a passport, that a prma face case of broken Australian law be made? Heinous as it may be that people with dual citizenship would prefer to risk their lives for a country other than Oz, is that an actual crime? Or just something we would deplore and it would be better to name and shame?

Thoughts?

Jon said :

“Why can’t we take it off those who are Australian born?”

Because we’ve signed up to the ‘Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness’. Article 5 reads in part: “If a law entails loss of nationality, such loss shall be conditional upon the person acquiring another nationality.”

We can remove Australian citizenship from a dual national without rendering that person stateless. If an Australian ONLY has Australian citizenship, what nationality do they then become?

While I agree that being granted citizenship of another country is an honour and privilege, under international law, everyone has the right to a nationality (article 15 of UDHR).

The government can cancel a passport though, such that when an Australian citizen returns the person will be detained, arrested if required and passport cancelled. I’m not sure if they do it often though, but it allows the person to travel until either the passport expires (usually 6 months before the expiry date is when countries stop letting you in) or they return to Australia. So no one will be stateless unless they choose to be, which may be a better option than facing court for crimes committed.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

Bring on the Revolution!

It’s just a t-shirt away!

Firstly, Masquara, if you’re taking about my thinking about federal parliament, it was never so. I am committed Canberran and Tuggeranongite and federal politics is too far removed from what I tried to do. Don’t bag me out for what you perceive as my failings as a pollie unless you have a track record of having a go. You are entitled to your opinion and you’re entitled to be wrong. I would fight for your right to be both but then you don’t need my help…

Dungfungus has a point, though. I could go back to Britain, mount a coup and put myself up as monarch and be our head of state. The flaw is that I am an unreconstructed Republican. I respect the Brits’ right to have the heirs and successors to the German aristocracy as their sovereigns as I respect their right to accept the notion of succession through birthright and religion.

I have, however, no yearning for such elevated office but am frustrated because my Grand-daughter can’t offer herself up as a candidate as President of this nation. She is female (although the Succession Act in the UK has addressed this lately but Oz hasn’t followed suit), she is a Catholic, no relation to the House of Windsor, and she is an Australian citizen. As a tertiary qualified and intelligent young lady, with no political affiliations, it would be nice if she could aspire to such high office as President, but this is denied her by the pompous and self righteous, blindsided, advocates of retention of the monarchy here.

I didn’t vote for the Sovereign, I didn’t vote for the GG, and I didn’t vote for the PM. The Monarchists didn’t vote for the first two either but still they say we have a democracy. Phooey! We have a constitutional monarchy! Bring on the Revolution!