23 July 2012

Closure of car park at National Library

| peterw
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Hi all,

The National Capital Authority has given notice that the dirt car park situated between the National Library and the Lake will be permanently closed (except for special events) from Friday next week. Parking in this area will henceforth become even tighter…

From the National Library website:

Changes to car parking
Posted on: 23rd July 2012

The National Capital Authority will commence restoring the Patrick White Lawns, adjacent to the National Library in August 2012. The area will close at 5 pm on Friday 3 August and will no longer be available for car parking except for temporary use during special events.

The Patrick White Lawns commemorate the 1973 Australian of the Year and the first Australian to win the Nobel Prize for Literature. The restoration of the area is listed as a high priority in the Parliament House Vista Heritage Management Plan.

Visit www.natcap.gov.au for further information.

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The heat has been turned up on the lack of parking, but so far only more smoke and no flames or light.
The 666 radio interview this week highlights the fact that the issue is largely within the control of the NCA if they choose to act- rather than continue to defer to committees, or reviews, or studies.

The realities are
there is plenty of car parking in the zone – a largely empty mutli story carpark is located in barton
the workers there elect to park near questacon for free and walk over, other civic workers park and walk over the bridge. Tourists with young children and prams and now knoweldge of our poor public transport system are displaced. The institutions in parkes are for the nation to experience, the visitors deserve to be furious, and are. Just wait until we try to put a few more 100,000 tourist in next year for the centenary.

To rub real insult into the self serving actions of the NCA and friends, they have stated they will turn car parks in the national library over to short term free 3 hr parking. Strange that the NCA headquarters are DIRECTLY opposite those car parks, making it a dream for their staff to pick up car parks when they drift into work, walk over and swap cars at lunch time..

Is the lack of action also anything to do with the central departments of finance and treasury having an agreement in place with there staff to provide free care parking under their certified agreements. So if the car parks become pay parking those agencies will have to pay for the car parks and the fringe benefits…. HOW do the ACT public servants in civic feel about that ???? worth an ask for you next negotiation… its tax office approved ( well for their staff …… naaah naaah ne nahh nah….)

its about time the shiny bums stopped serving themselves and started serving the public.

c_c said :

Canberra is *not* New York, London or Melbourne

Try typing on RiotACT with an iPhone sometime, really something that needs to be improved with the next site revision.

Or a phone operating on Android.

I have a feeling it is the phones though, not this site specifically.

I have trouble creating any form of bulk text on my phone.

Canberra is *not* New York, London or Melbourne

Try typing on RiotACT with an iPhone sometime, really something that needs to be improved with the next site revision.

c_c said :

Only a retard would keep comparing Canberra to cities with populations in the millions.

Canberra is *note* New York, London or Melbourne.

You do see the irony here, don’t you?

The senior bureaucrat in the CT article I referenced was whining about tourists not being able to park. I pointed out that there are alternatives to parking and driving.

I apologise for using the term retard as an insult. I hope I have not offended anyone.

Canberra has national institutions, promoted nationally as cultural treasures for all to share and visit. You are being deliberately obtuse in ignoring this.

In most cities tourists use public transport to visit these types of attractions, i really cant see how i could explain this any more clearly. im sorry if your extensive research shows that public transport must deliver all people to 200 metres of their destination or it isnt practical, its not a statistic I’m familiar with.

damien haas said :

When you visit New York, London or Melbourne – do you drive to the main tourist attractions ?

I recall a combination of walking, subway, tram and ferry.

Only a retard would ignore the obvious solutions.

Higher population density, larger economy, true 24hr public transport.

Only a retard would keep comparing Canberra to cities with populations in the millions.

Canberra is note New York, London or Melbourne.

damien haas said :

When you visit New York, London or Melbourne – do you drive to the main tourist attractions ?

Let’s see. Cities where I didn’t drive to tourist attractions:
Manhattan (population density 27 000/km^2)
London (population density 5200/km^2)

Where I did:
Melbourne (population density 1600/km^2)
Canberra (population density 1100/km^2)

damien haas said :

Only a retard would ignore the obvious solutions.

Yeap, in this town it’s known as a bus.

One of my jobs is in the Parliamentary Triangle. I used to think paid parking was a bad idea for here, as we did not have the equivalent services of a town centre (post office, shops, more childcare etc). But the more I got into taking the bus from where I live (northside) to and from work, trying out different route options to shave off trip time, the more I think I should change my mind. I now think that paid parking would be a good thing here, as it would free up parking spaces for commuters who needed to fit in the child-care run or for tourists to get to the attractions. I’d be out of pocket for those days when I need to drive, but think the benefits outweigh the extra cost.

devils_advocate2:20 pm 27 Jul 12

carnardly said :

The carpark at Treasury often has spots available up until 9.30 am.

That is within walking distances to most places within the Parly Triangle for healty people.

But maybe people don’t want to walk more than 200 metres.

Are you sure those aren’t the SES spots? the regular spots fill up by 9 at the latest.

On the other occasions when the dirt carpark has been closed (filling the potholes etc) the questacon carpark has been filled by 9:15.

carnardly said :

But maybe people don’t want to walk more than 200 metres.

The rule of thumb for transport planning is that people won’t walk further than 400m for bus or LRT or 800m for heavy rail. Which would explain the whining about a lack of public transport in the Triangle when then are many routes going past on Commonwealth Ave (it’s just too far to walk).

When you visit New York, London or Melbourne – do you drive to the main tourist attractions ?

I recall a combination of walking, subway, tram and ferry.

Only a retard would ignore the obvious solutions.

The carpark at Treasury often has spots available up until 9.30 am. That is within walking distances to most places within the Parly Triangle for healty people. But maybe people don’t want to walk more than 200 metres.

Stop claiming public transport is the answer.

Only a retard would claim that spending tens of millions rebuilding a city to have light rail is better than spending a tiny fraction of that just building an underground carpark.

The article in todays Ct was just beautiful.

ACT Light Rail response here:

http://www.actlightrail.info/2012/07/parkland-does-not-mean-free-parking-in.html

Better public transport would be attractive to tourists and commuters. It doesnt exist today – or that CT article would never have been written.

Damien Haas
Chair, ACT Light Rail

Tetranitrate said :

Oh and when bus just passes by like that on a lower frequency suburban loop it can really f**k up your day – even if the route is 15 minute intervals during peak times, that means ensuring that time is free in case of such an occurrence, or in case the bus simply never turns up, or turns up significantly early.

I’ll bite and admit that catching the bus is a pretty shitty solution in your case, but your reason for not cycling is just pathetic. And I’m not even saying that as a cyclist, I’m saying that as a lazy person.

screaming banshee12:52 pm 26 Jul 12

A look at the recent near map shots shows that acton park always has plenty of parking, levy all day parking in the triangle at the same rate and heavily police free 2 hour zones and I’ll bet the problem of finding a car park will go away.

davo101 said :

HenryBG said :

Gosh – sounds like a UN-inspired commie plot to take over the world. Can’t have that. It’ll never work, anyway. Plus there’s no such thing as “Parking” – it’s all a hoax.

No, no you misunderstand, parking exists–the hoax is the concept that there is some sort of environmental effect if you park. No one has ever proved that carpark congestion is anything other than a natural phenomena 😉

Plus, an eminent scientist with googly eyes who once advised Margaret Thatcher on car parking has revealed that there was a massive carpark congestion problem during the Little Ice Age, proving that it’s all a natural phenomenon anyway.

devils_advocate11:57 am 26 Jul 12

KB1971 said :

Devis Advocate – Yep, my comment was not strictly on topic but a thread is a conversation & most conversations generally do not stay on one topic for too long. People have brought pay parkign to the table which isnt the issue here either.

Anyway, there is still plenty of parkng in the area with the closure of this car park, it just might not be right at their works dorstep.

Fair enough, you’ve clarified your position so I’m happy to move on.

Essentially there’s an economic problem – no price signal, so demand exceeds supply. With the further reduction in demand, people will start coming to work earlier to get the fewer available spaces.

The problem is further complicated by substitutability – some people are debating the extent to which public transport/cycling etc is a substitute for a private car.

I think one of the key complications is that the group that is claiming they are least able to substitute – people who are doing the school run – are also the people that are least able to get in early to get the available parks. But as I said before, I won’t shed a tear for them, primarily because of all the other handouts “working famblies” recieve, and have developed an entitlement complex in respect of.

The people who are most able to substitute to public transport – young singles with no kids – have no incentives to do so because they can simply leave for work earlier. I find it unlikely that the reduction in q supplied will be so great that people will have to turn up so early that it will wipe out the convenience of driving to a free carpark. So in that sense, it is somewhat like an adverse selection problem, except that singles people with no kids enjoying a benefit for once in their lives is in no sense “adverse”.

Tetranitrate said :

KB1971 said :

Tetranitrate said :

Absolutely agree that expecting free parking within the parliamentary triangle is unreasonable, but I do feel I need to remind you that the triangle is not the CBD.

My post was mainly in objection to the ‘shut up and be glad you’re not in Sydney’ post I quoted – it’s just irrelevant. I mean why stop at Sydney? why not New York or Tokyo why we’re at it?
I mean it’s like saying “you think the traffic is bad? well it’s worse in shanghai so shut up, don’t ever expect better, and stop complaining when it gets worse.”
.

Where in my post did I say that? You put 2 & 2 together & made 46.

KB1971 said :

I am sure Sydneysiders whould laugh if they saw half the threads here about parking.

Feel free to continue peddling though.

So, you quote one sentence for convenience to suit your own agenda & you have the hide to accuse me of pedalling something?

I also started out saying that my eyes were opened at a recent trip to Sydney indicating that I was making an observation, not a comparison, obviously the context was lost on you.

As I said later on:

“I was also just making an observation about Sydney, I had not realised how expensive it is. Parking was relatively easy to find even though it was expensive.

If I were to make a comparison I would have quoted local prices & said stop your whinging.”

I find it hilarious that you assumed all that from one sentence.

Devis Advocate – Yep, my comment was not strictly on topic but a thread is a conversation & most conversations generally do not stay on one topic for too long. People have brought pay parkign to the table which isnt the issue here either.

Anyway, there is still plenty of parkng in the area with the closure of this car park, it just might not be right at their works dorstep.

devils_advocate8:22 am 26 Jul 12

KB1971 said :

Tetranitrate said :

Absolutely agree that expecting free parking within the parliamentary triangle is unreasonable, but I do feel I need to remind you that the triangle is not the CBD.

My post was mainly in objection to the ‘shut up and be glad you’re not in Sydney’ post I quoted – it’s just irrelevant. I mean why stop at Sydney? why not New York or Tokyo why we’re at it?
I mean it’s like saying “you think the traffic is bad? well it’s worse in shanghai so shut up, don’t ever expect better, and stop complaining when it gets worse.”
.

Where in my post did I say that? You put 2 & 2 together & made 46.

It was a reasonable implication – this post was complaining about canberra parking, there is little other conclusion to draw from a comparison with sydney parking.

Tetranitrate10:42 pm 25 Jul 12

KB1971 said :

Tetranitrate said :

Absolutely agree that expecting free parking within the parliamentary triangle is unreasonable, but I do feel I need to remind you that the triangle is not the CBD.

My post was mainly in objection to the ‘shut up and be glad you’re not in Sydney’ post I quoted – it’s just irrelevant. I mean why stop at Sydney? why not New York or Tokyo why we’re at it?
I mean it’s like saying “you think the traffic is bad? well it’s worse in shanghai so shut up, don’t ever expect better, and stop complaining when it gets worse.”
.

Where in my post did I say that? You put 2 & 2 together & made 46.

KB1971 said :

I am sure Sydneysiders whould laugh if they saw half the threads here about parking.

Feel free to continue peddling though.

NoImRight said :

davo101 said :

NoImRight said :

davo101 said :

NoImRight said :

A comparison to Hobart, Newcastle, or Adelaide would be a hell of a lot more reasonable – of course it wouldn’t really do much to support your point of view, since in Adelaide you’ll get all day parking in the CBD for $12, comparable to the Canberra CBD despite having a bit over 3 times the population.

Thanks for the idea. Hobart, population 214 000, cost to park all day in middle of town $11, Darwin (127 000) $8, Wollongong (292 000) $5, Newcastle (288 000) $8.

If you want free parking get a job in Queanbeyan. If you want to live in a city bigger than a couple of hundred thousand be prepared to pay for parking.

How is this my quote? Not what i said at all?

Whoops, WordPress thinks post #58 and #59 are both comment number 421060.

Perhaps the system is ganging up on you 😮

Probably some Fabian Society plot

There are Fabian plots everywhere, people! The NCA is in on the climate change fraud up to their necks too!

Tetranitrate said :

but I do feel I need to remind you that the triangle is not the CBD.

Canberra doesn’t have a CBD, we have a number of BD’s. Civic has about 29 000 workers, Barton–Parkes–Forrest 17 000.

Tetranitrate said :

By all means charge $5, $10 a day for parking – it’s not going to make the problem go away unless they actually build multilevel carparks in the area and/or improve the bus system.

Well this is the problem, the wheels of Government turn very slowly. They’ve been jaw-boning about this since 1994. They had a go in 2003 another go in 2010 and I assume it’s still on-going. Expect the problem to just get worse right up to the point where the Coalition gets in and sacks a third of the service, at which stage there will be plenty of parking.

NoImRight said :

Probably some Fabian Society plot

+1

Tetranitrate said :

Absolutely agree that expecting free parking within the parliamentary triangle is unreasonable, but I do feel I need to remind you that the triangle is not the CBD.

My post was mainly in objection to the ‘shut up and be glad you’re not in Sydney’ post I quoted – it’s just irrelevant. I mean why stop at Sydney? why not New York or Tokyo why we’re at it?
I mean it’s like saying “you think the traffic is bad? well it’s worse in shanghai so shut up, don’t ever expect better, and stop complaining when it gets worse.”
.

Where in my post did I say that? You put 2 & 2 together & made 46.

Tetranitrate3:38 pm 25 Jul 12

davo101 said :

NoImRight said :

A comparison to Hobart, Newcastle, or Adelaide would be a hell of a lot more reasonable – of course it wouldn’t really do much to support your point of view, since in Adelaide you’ll get all day parking in the CBD for $12, comparable to the Canberra CBD despite having a bit over 3 times the population.

Thanks for the idea. Hobart, population 214 000, cost to park all day in middle of town $11, Darwin (127 000) $8, Wollongong (292 000) $5, Newcastle (288 000) $8.

If you want free parking get a job in Queanbeyan. If you want to live in a city bigger than a couple of hundred thousand be prepared to pay for parking.

Absolutely agree that expecting free parking within the parliamentary triangle is unreasonable, but I do feel I need to remind you that the triangle is not the CBD.

My post was mainly in objection to the ‘shut up and be glad you’re not in Sydney’ post I quoted – it’s just irrelevant. I mean why stop at Sydney? why not New York or Tokyo why we’re at it?
I mean it’s like saying “you think the traffic is bad? well it’s worse in shanghai so shut up, don’t ever expect better, and stop complaining when it gets worse.”
or
“you think hospital waiting times are bad in Canberra? well in Mumbai they’re even worse! STFU!”
It’s just meaningless sneering, there’s no point in posting garbage like that.

But the actual subject of the thread is a bit more than free vs pay parking – the NCA has gone and turned a tiny problem into a much larger one, given a worthless suggestion to those inconvenienced which they know is worthless and declared job well done.
Failing to provide adequate parking or other transportation is simply a failure of planning – it’s not about whether it costs or not, it’s about whether there’s actually the capacity to cater for the people who work in this part of the city, as well as for tourists and others who god forbid might want to use the facilities.
By all means charge $5, $10 a day for parking – it’s not going to make the problem go away unless they actually build multilevel carparks in the area and/or improve the bus system.

The very area they’re closing off was actually reasonably adequate as far as the national library was concerned too, there was usually room there when I needed to use the national library while studying.

davo101 said :

NoImRight said :

davo101 said :

NoImRight said :

A comparison to Hobart, Newcastle, or Adelaide would be a hell of a lot more reasonable – of course it wouldn’t really do much to support your point of view, since in Adelaide you’ll get all day parking in the CBD for $12, comparable to the Canberra CBD despite having a bit over 3 times the population.

Thanks for the idea. Hobart, population 214 000, cost to park all day in middle of town $11, Darwin (127 000) $8, Wollongong (292 000) $5, Newcastle (288 000) $8.

If you want free parking get a job in Queanbeyan. If you want to live in a city bigger than a couple of hundred thousand be prepared to pay for parking.

How is this my quote? Not what i said at all?

Whoops, WordPress thinks post #58 and #59 are both comment number 421060.

Perhaps the system is ganging up on you 😮

Probably some Fabian Society plot

NoImRight said :

davo101 said :

NoImRight said :

A comparison to Hobart, Newcastle, or Adelaide would be a hell of a lot more reasonable – of course it wouldn’t really do much to support your point of view, since in Adelaide you’ll get all day parking in the CBD for $12, comparable to the Canberra CBD despite having a bit over 3 times the population.

Thanks for the idea. Hobart, population 214 000, cost to park all day in middle of town $11, Darwin (127 000) $8, Wollongong (292 000) $5, Newcastle (288 000) $8.

If you want free parking get a job in Queanbeyan. If you want to live in a city bigger than a couple of hundred thousand be prepared to pay for parking.

How is this my quote? Not what i said at all?

Whoops, WordPress thinks post #58 and #59 are both comment number 421060.

Perhaps the system is ganging up on you 😮

davo101 said :

NoImRight said :

A comparison to Hobart, Newcastle, or Adelaide would be a hell of a lot more reasonable – of course it wouldn’t really do much to support your point of view, since in Adelaide you’ll get all day parking in the CBD for $12, comparable to the Canberra CBD despite having a bit over 3 times the population.

Thanks for the idea. Hobart, population 214 000, cost to park all day in middle of town $11, Darwin (127 000) $8, Wollongong (292 000) $5, Newcastle (288 000) $8.

If you want free parking get a job in Queanbeyan. If you want to live in a city bigger than a couple of hundred thousand be prepared to pay for parking.

How is this my quote? Not what i said at all?

NoImRight said :

A comparison to Hobart, Newcastle, or Adelaide would be a hell of a lot more reasonable – of course it wouldn’t really do much to support your point of view, since in Adelaide you’ll get all day parking in the CBD for $12, comparable to the Canberra CBD despite having a bit over 3 times the population.

Thanks for the idea. Hobart, population 214 000, cost to park all day in middle of town $11, Darwin (127 000) $8, Wollongong (292 000) $5, Newcastle (288 000) $8.

If you want free parking get a job in Queanbeyan. If you want to live in a city bigger than a couple of hundred thousand be prepared to pay for parking.

Tetranitrate said :

KB1971 said :

What I cant work out is, if all the car parks in the trianlgle are full, why can I get a park in the one that runs along Commonwealth Ave at 9am in the morning? Or Flynn Drive/Hyatt?

Because it was Saturday?

KB1971 said :

I must say, my eyes were opend on a recent trip to Sydney.

Homebush for 2.5 hours on Saturday: $16:00
Darling Harbour for 3 hours on Saturday night:: $24:00
Manly on a Sunday: $30:00
Bondi Beach on a Monday for 4 hours: $26:00

As a tourist to Sydney I was taken aback by the cost of parking but was happy to accept it as part of the holiday as I was too lazy to sort out public transport except for the Manly Ferry which cost us 10 bucks for the whole day as a family.

I am sure Sydneysiders whould laugh if they saw half the threads here about parking.

Utterly worthless comparison. Sydney is an enormous city with more than 10 times the population of Canberra.
A comparison to Hobart, Newcastle, or Adelaide would be a hell of a lot more reasonable – of course it wouldn’t really do much to support your point of view, since in Adelaide you’ll get all day parking in the CBD for $12, comparable to the Canberra CBD despite having a bit over 3 times the population.

No, it was this morning actually & I regularly do it.

I was also just making an observation about Sydney, I had not realised how expensive it is. Parking was relatively easy to find even though it was expensive.

If I were to make a comparison I would have quoted local prices & said stop your whinging.

devils_advocate1:26 pm 25 Jul 12

Onceler said :

Perhaps NCA would disapprove though….?

LOL, if NCA is the issue, then everyone drive to work in a red caravan. It will be at least 5 years, by my count, before anything happens. And then, to extend the analogy, I presume they subsidise a carport for your own personal use or something.

devils_advocate1:24 pm 25 Jul 12

colourful sydney racing identity said :

devils_advocate said :

Most workers in the central agencies can’t go on strike. Thanks for playing though, Mr Gazket.

Really? Why not?

Primarily the ridiculous restrictions on use of communciations, but also to do with the rules allowing the “release” of representatives having regard to “organisational needs”. I’m pretty sure other industries don’t have these kinds of restrictions. Logistically, I’m not sure how one would go about organising any kind of industrial action in this situation.

However, I would be genuinely happy to be proven wrong in this instance.

Postalgeek said :

Mysteryman said :

How is riding a motorcycle or scooter going to help? They are subject to the same problem – lack of parking spaces. While it’s easy to just park a bike/scooter anywhere out of the way, the ACT GovCo are too stupid to allow it, which results in parking fines unless you park in the car park spaces.

I can generally find a spot somewhere for my bike, and the whole point is that you can trade one car spot for 3-4 bike spots, but otherwise I agree with you entirely in regards to bike parking legalities. Bikes parked out of the way don’t seem to cause issues in Melbourne.

I can ride in at any old time and still find a spot to park. Vary rarely do I have to ride around searching for a space. But if large numbers of car drives switched to two wheels, I’m sure m/c parking would quickly fill up. So yeah – bring on the Melbourne style parking! 🙂 Perhaps NCA would disapprove though….?

Im not sure why arguments about how good we have it compared to Sydney, or anywhere else, are meant to be relevant to a lot of tehse sorts of discussions? If I wanted to live in Sydney conditions Id live in Sydney.The commute in Dubbo is probably a lot easier than here too Rather than argueing all living conditions should be lowered until everyone is equal maybe we should look at what we can achieve in Canberra?

Tetranitrate12:44 pm 25 Jul 12

KB1971 said :

What I cant work out is, if all the car parks in the trianlgle are full, why can I get a park in the one that runs along Commonwealth Ave at 9am in the morning? Or Flynn Drive/Hyatt?

Because it was Saturday?

KB1971 said :

I must say, my eyes were opend on a recent trip to Sydney.

Homebush for 2.5 hours on Saturday: $16:00
Darling Harbour for 3 hours on Saturday night:: $24:00
Manly on a Sunday: $30:00
Bondi Beach on a Monday for 4 hours: $26:00

As a tourist to Sydney I was taken aback by the cost of parking but was happy to accept it as part of the holiday as I was too lazy to sort out public transport except for the Manly Ferry which cost us 10 bucks for the whole day as a family.

I am sure Sydneysiders whould laugh if they saw half the threads here about parking.

Utterly worthless comparison. Sydney is an enormous city with more than 10 times the population of Canberra.
A comparison to Hobart, Newcastle, or Adelaide would be a hell of a lot more reasonable – of course it wouldn’t really do much to support your point of view, since in Adelaide you’ll get all day parking in the CBD for $12, comparable to the Canberra CBD despite having a bit over 3 times the population.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

devils_advocate said :

Most workers in the central agencies can’t go on strike. Thanks for playing though, Mr Gazket.

Really? Why not?

Their employer would discover they are not that “central” and get rid of them?

How about Park ‘n’ Segway?

The govt should legalise Segways, buy a whole bunch and then lease them out at Park ‘n’ Segway carparks just outside the Parl Triangle 🙂

What I cant work out is, if all the car parks in the trianlgle are full, why can I get a park in the one that runs along Commonwealth Ave at 9am in the morning? Or Flynn Drive/Hyatt?

Smells like BS to me…………

I must say, my eyes were opend on a recent trip to Sydney.

Homebush for 2.5 hours on Saturday: $16:00
Darling Harbour for 3 hours on Saturday night:: $24:00
Manly on a Sunday: $30:00
Bondi Beach on a Monday for 4 hours: $26:00

As a tourist to Sydney I was taken aback by the cost of parking but was happy to accept it as part of the holiday as I was too lazy to sort out public transport except for the Manly Ferry which cost us 10 bucks for the whole day as a family.

I am sure Sydneysiders whould laugh if they saw half the threads here about parking.

Mysteryman said :

How is riding a motorcycle or scooter going to help? They are subject to the same problem – lack of parking spaces. While it’s easy to just park a bike/scooter anywhere out of the way, the ACT GovCo are too stupid to allow it, which results in parking fines unless you park in the car park spaces.

I can generally find a spot somewhere for my bike, and the whole point is that you can trade one car spot for 3-4 bike spots, but otherwise I agree with you entirely in regards to bike parking legalities. Bikes parked out of the way don’t seem to cause issues in Melbourne.

colourful sydney racing identity11:18 am 25 Jul 12

devils_advocate said :

Most workers in the central agencies can’t go on strike. Thanks for playing though, Mr Gazket.

Really? Why not?

Postalgeek said :

Some possible options when faced with a parking holocaust:

1 – Catch bus
2 – Ride motorbike/scooter
2a-drop kids off at local daycare centre, take car home, ride in
3 – Cycle
3a – drop kids off at local daycare centre, take car home, ride in
3b – cycle in with kids
4 – E-bike (see 2a/3a)
5 – Carpool
6 – Park and ride
7 – Park and walk
8 – Work from home
9 – change/transfer work
10 – change home
11 – walk if it’s close enough
12 – Acknowledge that the convenience of cars come at a significant cost and suck it up. Better than enduring the God-forsaken mild climate of Canberra. The winter sun we have today, and had yesterday, and the day before, is absolutely feral.

…and of course 13 – Do nothing for yourself, get yourself in a completely intractable situation, wait passively (or aggressively for all the difference it makes) for others solve your parking woes in a growing city, and bitch and moan about any suggestion made that might get single occupant vehicles out of the spots where you can park your indispensable family car. You might get a new carpark after a few years of stress, until everyone with the same mentality fills it up.

How is riding a motorcycle or scooter going to help? They are subject to the same problem – lack of parking spaces. While it’s easy to just park a bike/scooter anywhere out of the way, the ACT GovCo are too stupid to allow it, which results in parking fines unless you park in the car park spaces.

HenryBG said :

davo101 said :

Gosh – sounds like a UN-inspired commie plot to take over the world. Can’t have that. It’ll never work, anyway. Plus there’s no such thing as “Parking” – it’s all a hoax.

No, no you misunderstand, parking exists–the hoax is the concept that there is some sort of environmental effect if you park. No one has ever proved that carpark congestion is anything other than a natural phenomena 😉

thatsnotme said :

Postalgeek said :

Some possible options when faced with a parking holocaust:

1 – Catch bus
2 – Ride motorbike/scooter
2a-drop kids off at local daycare centre, take car home, ride in
3 – Cycle
3a – drop kids off at local daycare centre, take car home, ride in
3b – cycle in with kids
4 – E-bike (see 2a/3a)
5 – Carpool
6 – Park and ride
7 – Park and walk
8 – Work from home
9 – change/transfer work
10 – change home
11 – walk if it’s close enough
12 – Acknowledge that the convenience of cars come at a significant cost and suck it up. Better than enduring the God-forsaken mild climate of Canberra. The winter sun we have today, and had yesterday, and the day before, is absolutely feral.

…and of course 13 – Do nothing for yourself, get yourself in a completely intractable situation, wait passively (or aggressively for all the difference it makes) for others solve your parking woes in a growing city, and bitch and moan about any suggestion made that might get single occupant vehicles out of the spots where you can park your indispensable family car. You might get a new carpark after a few years of stress, until everyone with the same mentality fills it up.

You forgot #14 – Sit in your ivory tower dispensing wisdom to the masses, who are obviously too stupid to see the solution themselves.

Some of your solutions may be viable for some people, but really, how realistic is it for someone who doesn’t live close to work, to drop the kids off at school or daycare, head back home, and then ride in? It’s almost 15km from my place into work – and while I do ride, and I do use the bus system as much as I can, unless I can get out the door at a reasonable hour they’re simply not viable. Not if I want to actually get into work before lunchtime.

My three year old starts in play school tomorrow (kinda a pre-preschool), and it begins at 9.15am. Is there any other viable way to get to work after dropping him off that doesn’t involve a car?

If you want to know how many people in this city have to deal with issues of getting kids to school, and then getting into work and vice-versa, just compare the commute into work normally, compared to during school holidays. The difference is vast.

Like I said, I use the bus system, and I cycle whenever I can – but the only reason I have these options at the moment is because my wife is still on leave after the birth of our second. Once she goes back to work – at the NLA – it’s going to be much harder to do this.

Life is rarely as black and white as many here seem to believe it is…

Guess you fall into the #13 “bitch and moan about any suggestion made that might get single occupant vehicles out of the spots where you can park your indispensable family car” category.

devils_advocate8:36 am 25 Jul 12

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

gazket said :

hold the bastards to ransom and don’t go to work for 2 weeks. what are they going to do sack everyone. I doubt it.

That’s called going on strike. Something I thought you would be completely against because of prior comments.

Most workers in the central agencies can’t go on strike. Thanks for playing though, Mr Gazket.

devils_advocate8:35 am 25 Jul 12

screaming banshee said :

Alternative transport, if the people that can, do, then the people that cannot will have an easier time parking.

I have absolutely no incentive to make life easier for people I don’t know, while acting at my own expense. In any case, the government already distributes sufficient of my income to breeders. Much easier for me to just leave for work at 7:50 and have my choice of parks.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd6:50 am 25 Jul 12

gazket said :

hold the bastards to ransom and don’t go to work for 2 weeks. what are they going to do sack everyone. I doubt it.

That’s called going on strike. Something I thought you would be completely against because of prior comments.

I reckon they should make paid parking in the parliamentary triangle but have some car-parks for car-poolers (3 occupants plus) only and those car-parks have a reduced rate.

It beggars belief that carpooling isn’t more widely used in the ACT. You have thousands of people leaving from the same areas and all going to the same areas. Car pooling saves you on fuel costs and reduces traffic congestion. If we, as a city, want to reduce our carbon emissions (which apparently we do) and deal with other issues such as growing traffic problems and car-park shortages, systems should be put in place that encourage cars to be used as efficiently as possible.

screaming banshee5:05 am 25 Jul 12

Alternative transport, if the people that can, do, then the people that cannot will have an easier time parking.

Replace ‘loading zones’ with ‘free parking in the triangle’, and ‘trucks’ with ‘parents who find it too hard to make other arrangements’ and it’s the same argument as last week.

Postalgeek said :

Some possible options when faced with a parking holocaust:

1 – Catch bus
2 – Ride motorbike/scooter
2a-drop kids off at local daycare centre, take car home, ride in
3 – Cycle
3a – drop kids off at local daycare centre, take car home, ride in
3b – cycle in with kids
4 – E-bike (see 2a/3a)
5 – Carpool
6 – Park and ride
7 – Park and walk
8 – Work from home
9 – change/transfer work
10 – change home
11 – walk if it’s close enough
12 – Acknowledge that the convenience of cars come at a significant cost and suck it up. Better than enduring the God-forsaken mild climate of Canberra. The winter sun we have today, and had yesterday, and the day before, is absolutely feral.

…and of course 13 – Do nothing for yourself, get yourself in a completely intractable situation, wait passively (or aggressively for all the difference it makes) for others solve your parking woes in a growing city, and bitch and moan about any suggestion made that might get single occupant vehicles out of the spots where you can park your indispensable family car. You might get a new carpark after a few years of stress, until everyone with the same mentality fills it up.

You forgot #14 – Sit in your ivory tower dispensing wisdom to the masses, who are obviously too stupid to see the solution themselves.

Some of your solutions may be viable for some people, but really, how realistic is it for someone who doesn’t live close to work, to drop the kids off at school or daycare, head back home, and then ride in? It’s almost 15km from my place into work – and while I do ride, and I do use the bus system as much as I can, unless I can get out the door at a reasonable hour they’re simply not viable. Not if I want to actually get into work before lunchtime.

My three year old starts in play school tomorrow (kinda a pre-preschool), and it begins at 9.15am. Is there any other viable way to get to work after dropping him off that doesn’t involve a car?

If you want to know how many people in this city have to deal with issues of getting kids to school, and then getting into work and vice-versa, just compare the commute into work normally, compared to during school holidays. The difference is vast.

Like I said, I use the bus system, and I cycle whenever I can – but the only reason I have these options at the moment is because my wife is still on leave after the birth of our second. Once she goes back to work – at the NLA – it’s going to be much harder to do this.

Life is rarely as black and white as many here seem to believe it is…

My other half is going to start bussing in again now that Patrick White Memorial Carpark is closing, which he used to do before it was open. Presumably some of the hoards from Treasury who are able to bus will do so too rather than using up the short stay visitors parking.

hold the bastards to ransom and don’t go to work for 2 weeks. what are they going to do sack everyone. I doubt it.

HenryBG said :

davo101 said :

No. The equivalent to the carbon tax would be to put a “price on parking” (let’s call it pay parking) as this would create a economic incentive not to park.

Gosh – sounds like a UN-inspired commie plot to take over the world. Can’t have that. It’ll never work, anyway. Plus there’s no such thing as “Parking” – it’s all a hoax.

davo101 reckons its part of the Liberals direct action policy.

Bluenomi said :

thatsnotme said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Catch a bus or ride a bike. Problem solved. Or get another job.
Pretty easy really.

I’m sure all of the people who work there, with young children in school or care who need to be picked up and dropped off, really appreciate the simplicity of your solution.

Exactly, I’d love to take my toddler on the bus with me to work. Especially since taking a bus from my house to the Parl Triangle in time to be at work would take me 2 hours and I’d have to leave just after 6am. Everyone on the bus would love to be stuck with my tired, cranky toddler for all that time.

And riding a bike with said toddler would also be exciting for all of us, we can freeze in winter and boil in summer.

Oh, please! We take our 14 month old to day care in a child seat attached to the back of our bike. They barely get any of the head wind hitting them at the back and you put a beanie on them and their fine.

Every mother in Canberra

davo101 said :

No. The equivalent to the carbon tax would be to put a “price on parking” (let’s call it pay parking) as this would create a economic incentive not to park.

Gosh – sounds like a UN-inspired commie plot to take over the world. Can’t have that. It’ll never work, anyway. Plus there’s no such thing as “Parking” – it’s all a hoax.

devils_advocate4:04 pm 24 Jul 12

Postalgeek said :

Some possible options when faced with a parking holocaust:

Damn, did we just reached Godwin? too soon. Just too soon.

Some possible options when faced with a parking holocaust:

1 – Catch bus
2 – Ride motorbike/scooter
2a-drop kids off at local daycare centre, take car home, ride in
3 – Cycle
3a – drop kids off at local daycare centre, take car home, ride in
3b – cycle in with kids
4 – E-bike (see 2a/3a)
5 – Carpool
6 – Park and ride
7 – Park and walk
8 – Work from home
9 – change/transfer work
10 – change home
11 – walk if it’s close enough
12 – Acknowledge that the convenience of cars come at a significant cost and suck it up. Better than enduring the God-forsaken mild climate of Canberra. The winter sun we have today, and had yesterday, and the day before, is absolutely feral.

…and of course 13 – Do nothing for yourself, get yourself in a completely intractable situation, wait passively (or aggressively for all the difference it makes) for others solve your parking woes in a growing city, and bitch and moan about any suggestion made that might get single occupant vehicles out of the spots where you can park your indispensable family car. You might get a new carpark after a few years of stress, until everyone with the same mentality fills it up.

thatsnotme said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Catch a bus or ride a bike. Problem solved. Or get another job.
Pretty easy really.

I’m sure all of the people who work there, with young children in school or care who need to be picked up and dropped off, really appreciate the simplicity of your solution.

Exactly, I’d love to take my toddler on the bus with me to work. Especially since taking a bus from my house to the Parl Triangle in time to be at work would take me 2 hours and I’d have to leave just after 6am. Everyone on the bus would love to be stuck with my tired, cranky toddler for all that time.

And riding a bike with said toddler would also be exciting for all of us, we can freeze in winter and boil in summer.

Tetranitrate2:15 pm 24 Jul 12

I have a feeling that those telling others to ‘catch the bus!’ don’t themselves use action buses to commute. When I was last using 300 series buses at peak hour, it was usual for one or even two buses to simply drive past the stop because they filled up at the interchange. I’m not actually convinced that the bus system would have the capacity to deal with a significantly larger number of people catching the bus to work. Obviously outside of peak hours buses are underutilized… but so what? there’s also less traffic, for the exact same reasons.

Oh and when bus just passes by like that on a lower frequency suburban loop it can really f**k up your day – even if the route is 15 minute intervals during peak times, that means ensuring that time is free in case of such an occurrence, or in case the bus simply never turns up, or turns up significantly early.

dungfungus said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Catch a bus or ride a bike. Problem solved. Or get another job.
Pretty easy really.

Are you the same guy that thought up the carbon tax?
(same sort of logic sequence)

No. The equivalent to the carbon tax would be to put a “price on parking” (let’s call it pay parking) as this would create a economic incentive not to park. Telling people not to park is much closer to the Liberal’s Direct Action plan (the analogy would be even closer if they paid you not to park).

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd1:26 pm 24 Jul 12

I see the idea of point/counterpoint is still unknown to the majority here.
Also, no flaming.

Another option that helps everyone one involved is to car pool.

That’s 4 valid options I have given out but instead you all seem to instead of take my advice, is to wave your little fists at the interwebs in a rage.

Wanon said :

Run a couple of free loop buses around the parliamentary triangle? Via a large free carpark, perhaps out at Majura Park. That would get me to catch a bus…

I think the Gov’t is slowly coming round to the idea of free carparks along major transport corridors (rather than having to detour into shopping centres to park). Doubt you would ever get free bus travel especially outside the Triangle but buses every five minutes for $2.50 from dedicated car parks on major corridors would be good. Majura Park could be one spot (although I don’t know how much of that land Snow owns and would therefore charge for). Canberra Avenue/Monaro Highway, Cotter Road/Adelaide Avenue, which I think are being considered, could be others.

The problem is once bus travel time increases because people have to detour via interchanges (either by bus or car) as well as possibly extra waiting times to change buses. I suspect many people park and ride from the Albert Hall into the City for that reason (ie I’m not aware of any other viable park and (non express) ride spot South of Albert Hall without having to park near or go through an interchange. I wouldn’t be surprised even to find that people travel South from Parkes Way only to walk, cycle or get back on a bus at Albert Hall to go into the City.

Getting to and from the North side is another good example as the non express buses that go via the city probably add a good 10 minutes to an across town trip. For example if people could change buses near Barry Drive/Northbourne (heading South) or Albert Hall (heading North) so that they bypassed the city and the city interchange this might help as well.

Unfortunately, many people rationalise that once they are in their car they should drive the whole distance. A lot of people need their car for childcare (or even the possibility that they might have to pick their child up eg because the other carer has to work late) or appointments. However, if a regular bus ride was only five or ten minutes from their car they might be tempted to park a little earlier and bus it the rest of the way.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Catch a bus or ride a bike. Problem solved. Or get another job.
Pretty easy really.

Are you the same guy that thought up the carbon tax?
(same sort of logic sequence)

milkman said :

Masquara said :

Er, why aren’t tourists being asked to use public transport?

Why should they? They bring money into our local economy, surely we should be trying to make things convenient for them.

So do the people that work there.

devils_advocate11:15 am 24 Jul 12

Zeital said :

thanks douche

Even this late in the month… I am putting in my prediction for mully. This has all the classic topics – job market, parking, cyclists, whether having kids is a lifestyle choice, the general laziness and greed of public servants, just everything.

*gets virtual popcorn*

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Catch a bus or ride a bike. Problem solved. Or get another job.
Pretty easy really.

I like how easy you think it is to just get another job…

thanks douche

If the bus or cycling doesn’t suit you, how about a motorbike or scooter? You may not want to put your kid on the back though.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back10:20 am 24 Jul 12

thatsnotme said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Catch a bus or ride a bike. Problem solved. Or get another job.
Pretty easy really.

I’m sure all of the people who work there, with young children in school or care who need to be picked up and dropped off, really appreciate the simplicity of your solution.

Exactly. Not all of us live lives where we have no other responsibilities.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd10:16 am 24 Jul 12

thatsnotme said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Catch a bus or ride a bike. Problem solved. Or get another job.
Pretty easy really.

I’m sure all of the people who work there, with young children in school or care who need to be picked up and dropped off, really appreciate the simplicity of your solution.

If more people rode or caught the bus there would be plenty of parks for those that genuinely need them.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Catch a bus or ride a bike. Problem solved. Or get another job.
Pretty easy really.

I’m sure all of the people who work there, with young children in school or care who need to be picked up and dropped off, really appreciate the simplicity of your solution.

Run a couple of free loop buses around the parliamentary triangle? Via a large free carpark, perhaps out at Majura Park. That would get me to catch a bus…

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd8:32 am 24 Jul 12

Catch a bus or ride a bike. Problem solved. Or get another job.
Pretty easy really.

Had to feel sorry for an elderly lady who asked my ACTION bus driver in Civic this afternoon where she could get the free bus that went around the CBD. He sadly (and correctly) told her that there hadn’t been such a thing for years and even gave an accurate description of the pseudo-trolley one that used to exist. ‘Oh,’ said the disappointed visitor, ‘We were told that there was one.’ ‘Well,’ I thought to myself, ‘there bloody should have been!’ What kind of national capital is this that doesn’t provide something like that, which could easily do a circular route as far as Questacon & the National Library?

It is ridiculous that there isn’t a free bus service that circles the whole Parliamentary Triangle (and possibly the National Museum also). Tourists should be able to park in one spot and shuttle it around to other destinations. Probably wouldn’t be much demand though (except for weekends and public holidays) and I suspect the ACT Government can’t see an incentive to provide it if they don’t think they will benefit from any of the money spent in the Triangle.

The Feds should trial a mixture of pay parking and free short stay (around four hours) and change the balance until there is enough parks for tourists. The problem will be workers who just move their cars through the day to use the short stay spots.

AND if it is true that the NCA has their own special carpark this is a HUGE conflict of interest. I can’t believe they are allowed to get away with that.

milkman said :

Masquara said :

Er, why aren’t tourists being asked to use public transport?

Why should they? They bring money into our local economy, surely we should be trying to make things convenient for them.

Er, and what do we have in the way of public transport on a public holiday in the ACT?

Aubergine said :

I would have thought it was helpful of the NCA to list all the alternative public parking nearby, rather than ‘unhelpful’. Are these all full when you go to park there? If so, why not consider driving in earlier, or later, when the odds are not everyone else will be trying the same thing. Or… yes, I’m going to say it… catch a bus.

I love it when someone who obviously doesn’t use the facilities and knows nothing about it pipes up with their Greeny holier than now BS.

Yes, they are all full, every day of the work week. That’s the situation for a couple of years now.

And yes, to get a park I get to the library before 9am.

But often I need to leave for other engagements during the day and return, oh dear, no park to return to. As soon as I leave someone takes it, one of the many vehicles circling for a space.

It’s unhelpful of the NCA to provide alternatives on a map that they know full well are full and offer no alternative whatsoever.

IT’S ALSO IRONIC BECAUSE THE NCA STAFF HAVE RESERVED PARKING BEHIND TREASURY, THEY DON’T HAVE TO COMPETE!

milkman said :

It would nice if those running the show realised that removing carparking, increasing parking costs and telling us to use public transport is not a real solution.

How is it not a real solution?
That’s what they are doing, so either get used to it, negotiate to work from home, or learn to ride a bike.
No Federal government of the day will build parking in the parliamentary triangle for federal employees.
One, it would be political suicide. Two, there is no money in the budget. Three, they’ll say it’s a local government issue and people should use public transport, or ride a bike.

As for the tourists, park at the acton ferry terminal and hire a bike. Best way to see that bit of canberra.

Aubergine said :

I would have thought it was helpful of the NCA to list all the alternative public parking nearby, rather than ‘unhelpful’. Are these all full when you go to park there? If so, why not consider driving in earlier, or later, when the odds are not everyone else will be trying the same thing. Or… yes, I’m going to say it… catch a bus. There are buses running through this area from all points every ten minutes at least. Every bus between Woden and the City can stop at Albert Hall, five minutes walk from the Library. Stacks of buses run right past the Library en route from Civic to Kingston/Manuka. Lots of options. Park in the city (“oh no, it’s not free”) and catch a bus. It just takes planning. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=action+bus+routes will help.

+1

The ability to park wherever you like whenever you like for free is not a god given right.

Masquara said :

Er, why aren’t tourists being asked to use public transport?

Why should they? They bring money into our local economy, surely we should be trying to make things convenient for them.

dungfungus said :

c_c said :

About 2/3 of that carpark is used by Treasury, the rest by Library users. And it and all surrounding carparks are completely full during semester – so where do we park now NCA? Did you think about this at all?

There should be a damn massive underground carpark in the Triangle anyway, like under the Melbourne Museum.

Lack of parking in this area is killing tourism.

That’s the plan

Er, why aren’t tourists being asked to use public transport?

Aubergine said :

I would have thought it was helpful of the NCA to list all the alternative public parking nearby, rather than ‘unhelpful’. Are these all full when you go to park there? If so, why not consider driving in earlier, or later, when the odds are not everyone else will be trying the same thing. Or… yes, I’m going to say it… catch a bus. There are buses running through this area from all points every ten minutes at least. Every bus between Woden and the City can stop at Albert Hall, five minutes walk from the Library. Stacks of buses run right past the Library en route from Civic to Kingston/Manuka. Lots of options. Park in the city (“oh no, it’s not free”) and catch a bus. It just takes planning. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=action+bus+routes will help.

+1 pay parking for long term parking in this area should have happened a long time ago.

It would nice if those running the show realised that removing carparking, increasing parking costs and telling us to use public transport is not a real solution.

I would have thought it was helpful of the NCA to list all the alternative public parking nearby, rather than ‘unhelpful’. Are these all full when you go to park there? If so, why not consider driving in earlier, or later, when the odds are not everyone else will be trying the same thing. Or… yes, I’m going to say it… catch a bus. There are buses running through this area from all points every ten minutes at least. Every bus between Woden and the City can stop at Albert Hall, five minutes walk from the Library. Stacks of buses run right past the Library en route from Civic to Kingston/Manuka. Lots of options. Park in the city (“oh no, it’s not free”) and catch a bus. It just takes planning. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=action+bus+routes will help.

screaming banshee7:31 pm 23 Jul 12

dungfungus said :

Lack of parking in this area is killing tourism.

Lack of policing of public servants parking in 3 and 4 hour car parks all day is the cause of lack of parking for tourists and visitors.

Zed – do you have any influence over parking in the parliamentary triangle? Can you do something about this anti-car push? I’m sick of the Green Nanny state telling me to catch the bus.

How_Canberran7:16 pm 23 Jul 12

Patience Monty, patience. The ‘lack’ of parking will be addressed due to resounding complaints.

I eventually see a multi-story carpark being built, embracing the facade and stately ambience of the Parliamentary triangle.

It will also address the dire lack of tourist car-parking. Can it get any better?

Chaaaa – chinnnnng!

Worth remembering that both sides of the Library were long earmarked for development, not just left as lawns. This is just the NCA trying to cut costs.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-vn3683426-s2

c_c said :

About 2/3 of that carpark is used by Treasury, the rest by Library users. And it and all surrounding carparks are completely full during semester – so where do we park now NCA? Did you think about this at all?

Rather unhelpfully, they’ve listed the other public parking spaces nearby. Mind you, these are all pretty much at capacity already:

http://www.natcap.gov.au/index.php?option=com_content&id=2433:restoration-of-the-patrick-white-lawns

Completely agree that the parking situation is dire, and it’s pretty much all the NCA’s fault.

Having said that. I detest this particular carpark: the open grassland there used to be a beautiful spot along the lakeside. Going back a few years, there was a kite festival held there. I used to play football at lunchtime there. Now it’s a muddy cesspit.

Thanks NCA. Spend a wad of cash to make this area the way it used to be 5 years ago. Smart thinking.

c_c said :

About 2/3 of that carpark is used by Treasury, the rest by Library users. And it and all surrounding carparks are completely full during semester – so where do we park now NCA? Did you think about this at all?

There should be a damn massive underground carpark in the Triangle anyway, like under the Melbourne Museum.

Lack of parking in this area is killing tourism.

About 2/3 of that carpark is used by Treasury, the rest by Library users. And it and all surrounding carparks are completely full during semester – so where do we park now NCA? Did you think about this at all?

There should be a damn massive underground carpark in the Triangle anyway, like under the Melbourne Museum.

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