1 August 2005

Club Pink outrage over too much pinkness. [Hoff Warning]

| RandomGit
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The harsh cold of winter waxes tempers and stupidity, leaving them cooled and dormant. But unfortunately for you dear reader, something came up and I just GOTS to rant about it.

This issue I am about to rumble was out on Tuesday but the ongoing and slowly escalating debate needs attention, because no one is talking the important point. The Canberra Grimes has it here. I especially like some of the reader comments.

It the usual moral outrage thing over boobs in public. The hearts of the truely good did swoon in horror and the end times were threatened to be unleashed upon us all when two Canberra ladies popped their wee bubs on the boob at Club Pink. Or so we would be led to believe.


Club Pink put a paid advertorial in Saturday’s Grimes so they could have their say. Without journalistic moderation or the chance for their opponents to respond to comments of course. I think the general mass of information from the various spots on the web where this stuff is getting discussed best describes the ad as ‘a pack of lies’.

And here’s a picture children.

Management are refusing entry to two particular club members if they continue to breastfeed in the Club. The ladies have refused to comply because they prefer doing it there as the facility is the most suitable at CISAC. Besides, its discrimination to deny them otherwise. Thus the fight is on. I’ll leave the nitty gritties to you, I shouldn’t need to explain why it is discrimination.

What I would like to comment on is the Gyms stance. For it is this that reveals the aforementioned ‘important point’.

First up, the stupid positions. They claim the ladies are in the way when they breastfeed (though they sit over in the corner on seats provided for sitting, not exercising). They claim that the babies stink (which just sounds made up to me). The doozy though is the response to the claim of discrimination that it would be discrimination against non breastfeeding members to change the ‘rules’ for the others. Please inform me, how are the ‘nons’ going to suffer one way or the other from this? Crack smokery of the highest order all this. It hints of desperation doesn’t it? Screwing down on the preposterous so hard that they hope to squeeze some sort of relavance out of it.

But the telling complaint from Club Pink management is this. They seem to be adhereing to the technicality of the no non-members rule of the Club. In that they may win the argument, it’s the ‘God says so’ defence. This is a shame, for it hides their true intentions. In my estimation, the non-members rule is put in place simply for that, no non-paying members. No money, no service. Why enforce it so strictly on a member’s INFANT CHILD that won’t be using the equipment or getting in the way? Why are they so desperate to keep these mothers out? Why the sudden objection after THREE WEEKS of breastfeeding their babies in the Gym? What is the REAL principle behind their actions?

Fashion. Pure and simple. It isn’t cool to have kids on tits around the place. It isn’t an attractive aside in the body beautiful competition that some people may wish it to be. Instead of a womens exclusive Gym being a comfortable and fully supportive place for women to be women and get their fitness done while they are at it, as it is advertised, they are merely turning this Gym into another brand of social competition. If that becomes obvious to all the members, they will drop off the guest list like flies in a bonfire.

Well might the Management say, they are only responding to members complaints. But between the need to breastfeed a child whereever you want and not having to see it happeneing, I side with the former everytime. Why should these women have to stay at home to give their kids the best? Do you know what such a sudden social death does to people? And we wionder why post natal depression is on the rise. Sure, it may be their choice to have kids, but it is YOUR choice to have them imprisoned in their homes for the sake of your sense of aesthetics. A womans freedom is neccessary, pandering to your squeamishness is not.

Thats just one mans opinion based on a wild ride of assumption though. I truely only wonder what the ladies, especially Melinda and Kathleen, would say about it.

So please, won’t someone think of the children? Heres something to turn the hearts, or dare I say the stomachs, of the outraged naysayers.

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I don’t eat in yours, and for the record, have never ever ever seen a kitchen in a gym. Ever.

I suppose it’s just cause I’m a male that I expect to go to a gym and do weights period. If there was a kitchen in a gym, I’d expect it to be some sort of staff kitchenette – not for use of patrons.

Oh, and Maelinar – get your facts straight. The women were breastfeeding in a kitchen area in the gym. Lots of people eat in kitchens.

I think bonfire’s real problem is seeing breasts used for something other than his own sexual amusement.

hang on a minute – how on earth am i a chauvinist pig ? i support equal rights, fair pay etc. I have never discriminated in the workplace, and gone to war (metaphorically) against people who have.

BUT there is a time and a place for everything.


Thumper: condolances on your washing machine
Bonfire: I always knew you were a chauvinist pig, but you’ve just blown my mind.

I don’t eat in your gym.

When a baby is feeding it has the nipple and a lot of the breast in it’s mouth it’s head covers most of the breast.
What you can see is about the same as a low cut top and I bet you do not object to low cut tops bonfire.
So is it the skin that you can see that you object to or something else?

RG, Lg and anyG, your rights end at the tip of my nose. If i WANT to see a child feeding I will buy a happy meal and sit next to ronald. Otherwise, take it to a private place, away from me.

The streaking comment, was an attempt at levity and contextualisation. Breast feeding, like jack booting me into finding it acceptable, is distasteful. Streaking is just funny.

lighting a campfire is not comparable to a bomb, no matter how twisted ones softheaded brain may be.

RG, morals are personal values, as to what you believe is acceptable and what you believe is not.

Please don’t place the blame on us, we are merely subjects of a system that has placed these imperical standards of morality upon society.

That said, I’ve often thought of how my idealistic space colony would eventually out populate and return to conquer the depraved inhabitants of Earth, but I think that might be a few years off.

The current thinking is we’ll just hurl space junk through your ever decreasing stratosphere until you give up.

bonny lad, I have reproduced your context perfectly. Big fire as a reason to prohibit a small fire. Full Frontal Nudity as reason to prohibit a slightly visual but mostly obscured bit of tit.

Then you hit us with the streaking comment and show us you have no consistency in your supposed moral.

Figure it out.

rg – you take my arhument out of context. i was referring to public nudity and societal attitude to its distastefulness.

i dont want to see a baby being breastfed in public. i contextualised the circumstances in which i found breasts acceptable.

i also find streaking at football and cricket matches acceptable. others may not.

Bonfire: yes, you are a bad person. If you don’t want to see it, don’t look. But don’t expect children to starve because you’ve got a freaky problem with them doing what is required to survive.

I like bonfires style of argument.

“Camp fires are bad because by case of comparison no one wants me to bomb Parliament”.


probably because it is now old news storm. Maybe club pink think they’ve done enough damage control.. who knows

Does anyone know why the pink add was not in the paper today?

LG – i do not want to seee women brestfeeding in public or private. Does that make me a bad person ?

Woudl you want to see me walking naked around the belconnen temple of avarice as i shopped for a bobbypin ?

you have your use for breasts, i have mine.

The newsletters are the cack, subscribe bitch!!

Nice one RG,

^’Add to Favourites’

In that order.

I have it myself, one sec…


All the newsletters this guy pushes out are great. ‘This is True’ is another favourite. He’s a media watch kinda guy.

RG what is the Stella awards ?

LG, did you really expect any other sort of comment from bonfire on the subject? You haven’t been paying attention.

Bonfire needs to realise that breasts are for feeding children with. End of story. If he gets off on them in the “boudoir”, that is completely by chance.

I didn’t breastfeed my child, but if I had, I would have done it wherever I bloody well wanted to!

A case for what? the flu?

what are they trying to get out of this?

BJ, good for you, it will make the gym lees crowded when i get off my lazy arse to go there

Well the HR commissioner seem to think they have a case!

Is Isn’t, Did Didn’t, Won’t Wouldn’t.

I’m in touch with the Girls and their ABA contact so we’ll see what is said in the next few days about dangerous places, regulations, legislations and hearsay based on inexpert opinion.

Maelinar, you should subscribe to The Stella Awards newsletter.

Club Stink

I am going to vote with my feet I am a member of Lime and will not renew when my membership.

I do not enjoy going there any more.

I suggest that other pink and lime members do that same and everyone else stop using the pool and sport area.

I’ll defend the club. I’ll use that same stupid legislation that requires people to put a stupid yellow sign up to indicate that they have just mopped the stupid floor.

The club has every right to designate away areas within the premises that it considers to be a safety risk to occupants of the building. This is done in order for them to not be sued by every tori, dianna and henrietta who ‘falls’ over and blames their fall on the safety standards of the premises.

McDonalds does it, Pubs do it, Gyms do it. I think it’s great that somebody had the girt to stand up and enforce the bloody rules for once instead of lamely letting them off the hook.

The fact that they are also a female gym would indicate that they know a little bit about feminine requirements and the safety considerations that should be applied.

If that’s not the case, vote with your wallets.

Random, i’m not a lawyer but that sounds about right to me.

Its funny, but most of the outrage I have been reading seems to be based on rumor and media stories. The truth is we’ll never know exactly what was said to the women, or what they said in return. I would wager that if we had both Mel and Kath here to recount the exact words and emphasis of what was said to them they would come up with a differnt version.

I am not defending the club, but the issue is the women were breastfeeding in an area the club consider dangerous. The two women were asked to move to an area provided for them to do so.

Jazz, looking at the legislation as you pointed out in relation to clubs.

Mel and Kath meet the terms and conditions of the Club. Wether these terms and conditions also apply to the child while it is being breastfed or enroute to it is the question.

If yes, Club Pink are in the legislative right. If no, they cannot eject these members while they breastfeed or enter with the intention of breastfeeding.

Is that a correct and reasonable interpretation? I bet theres something I am missing.

Heres what Melinda said on the ‘no children’ rule

My understanding and I will double check, is that the contract says “No mebers under the age of 14” or something like that. It does not say no b/feeding though I know that much.

Whatever it says about children though, it should not apply to b/feeding. I doubt very highly that the law would allow for a contract to discriminate against something that the legislation is in place to prevent.

Some people seem to be forgetting that (not on here). The LEGISLATION, which overides policy, is on our side.

On another note: the ABA has issued a media release disupiting the claims by CP that the kitchen is not ABA Accredited! Does everyone else read that add to say that you can feed in 3 designated ares inside CP, but not the kitchen?

Jazz, I’ll pass on that peice by peice look at the legislation. Thanks for that.

storm, its questionable whether that legislation applies in this circumstance.

take a close look at part 3 division 3.2 section 19 which clearly indicates that it is related to public premises. We don’t know whether club pink is counted as ‘public’ as no determination has been made.

it is also doubtful whether club pink is in breach of any of the conditions of part 3 division 3.2 section 23 in relation to clubs.


Is ‘Harry the gym manager’ a bloke or a sheila with a fuuny name?

I have been told that the advertorial that club Stink is putting in the paper cost $3,800 a pop and they have now put 4 in so far? How can these young mums compete with that. The had hungry baby’s they ask could the feed them. If it was against the rules why where they not told when they asked? What is wrong with feeding babies in a kitchen don’t all babies live in homes with Kitchens? This is where most mum’s have a tea or coffee with friends and feed there babies if they get hungry. If it is ok at home why should it be a problem in the gym? Anyone who suggest that you feed your baby while sitting on the ground in the crèche has never feed a baby as it is almost imposable with a little 10 or 15 week old baby. While we are on the subject of 10 and 15 week old babies if they are breastfeed they do not stink! Only bottle feed baby’s or once they start to eat solids do they stink. I suggest you find a full breastfeed baby and see for your self! No on thinks that mums feeding there baby’s bottles should be hidden out of site? This is discrimination and breaking the law! See the for yourself http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/a/1991-81/default.asp.

Bonfire, many women would say that men are children.

Just because they don’t like the facilities doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

you know what, I think the free weights in the gym should be hexagonal. the won’t have free weights until the existing stuff is all replaced

thumper- they do provide appropriate facilities.

Not according to the users.

Why dont these women just stay at home and watch a jane fonda video ?

Im afraid i dont regard public breastfeeding as acceptable. If i want to see a womans breasts, I will take them to the boudoir.

Bloody fernwood, club pink et al market themselves as being discrimanatory, so i cant see how these besons can now complain about discrimination.

However, i am heartened to see that they are playing an active role in the raising of their offspring, for as Schopenhauer says ‘who better to raise children than woman, for they are mere children themselves’.

thumper- they do provide appropriate facilities.


Children, still getting that clarification, to be continued…..

Discrimination, which law? There is a specific one for Breastfeeding, which one are you referring to? Clarify.

Stirring the pot, not in particular. It’s a personal issue but I’m not rabble rousing for its own sake this time.

Thumper, I’m not sure the policy was expressly written as no Breastfeeding, just no children.

I’ll get a double check but no children is surely so kids aren’t running around the gym being a genuine pain. Not much running occurs during breastfeeding.

I don’t think that being a women-only gym means they can declare open season on the anti-discrimination law


Vic Bitterman9:02 pm 01 Aug 05

Stupid lesbians.

The change room at CISAC is in a public area – not in the Club Pink facilities. From what other CISAC users have said, the baby change room smells of chlorine (it’s in the pool area) and dirty nappies. Would you like to eat lunch in a room like that? Why should a baby?

There is a creche within the CISAC centre (not in Club Pink), but other users have said it has only one chair so breastfeeding mothers sometimes end up sitting on the floor to feed their baby. Having tried to feed a baby on the floor myself, I can tell you it’s harder to attach the baby properly, and hurts the back by the end of the feed.

Therefore, I totally understand why some mothers prefer to feed their babies elsewhere. And some mothers like to multi-task – feed the baby and drink their own cuppa at the same time. Why shouldn’t they? I don’t think that being a women-only gym means they can declare open season on the anti-discrimination law. Where will it end?

As for getting sued for someone spilling their tea/coffee on the baby, that would rule out breastfeeding in any cafe or restaurant. And I can’t see that happening. Think of the loss of revenue due to mothers groups no longer meeting at not-busy cafes (busy cafes are no good when you’ve got ten prams coming in).

I think the whole issue of being discriminatory is exactly what Club Pink is about. It is a womens only gym….. Yes they are discriminating – it is their gym and they are allowed to.

If the club has areas where it wishes to allow breastfeeding or not allow it, it is up to them. They are a gym which provides a crache which is far better than most out there.

On the other hand I am all for women only gyms because it allows more people to get in and excersise in an area where they are comfortable to do so.

I can’t see any junkies affording the fees at CISAC to get their hit in the baby change room or any other area of CISAC for that matter.


David Heidelberg5:17 pm 01 Aug 05

Breast feeding is one of the most beautiful and natural experiences that exist.

People who have some sort of a moral problem – which is clearly what is motivating the club – then I suggest that they have significant psychological disturbance, and should seek help.

If the mothers are breast feeding their infants in a kitchenette where many people are preparing tea and coffee from instant boiling water, as Club Pink claims in their advert, I can understand their reluctance to allow breastfeeding in the area for liabilty reasons. I can even see it going to court where one mother spills hot coffee on another’s infant and the club has to pay out huge sums for emotional and physical trauma, etc (again, IF this is as the club claims, occuring in said kitchenette), and probably to both the spillee and the spiller. This I can understand.
Would anyone with decent legal knowledge know if it be possible for the club to get the mothers concerned to sign a waiver absolving the club of any responsibility to the welfare of the infants while within the kitchenette?

As for people being offended by others waving pink bits with biological functions around in public…do we have a double standard here?

The pathetic efforts of their spokepeople suggest a great deal of dishonesty as to their real motivations in this matter.

I have read the gym account of where they were and they say. THe babies were in an area that isn’t safe,, WELL if it isnt safe for to infants that cant move (ie roll, or walk) then WHY is it safe for anyone.. As another said would you like to sit in a changing area to eat, or wait till a stranger siad it was time to feed you, i think not..

AS for this “”2nd – The ladies were provided with terms and conditions of membership upon joining, terms which indicate they are not allowed to breastfeed in the club pink area of CISAC. The Club’s decision to not enforce those conditions until now is irrelivant.”” THat there is saying they are discriminting agianst it, by not allowing it.. If you think babies stink and are offensive, then i say look at yourself doing your work out and then me yourself , i bet others find that a gross smell and sight..

Thank you em. Club Pinks ad in Saturdays Grimes attempts to defend their case. Unfortunately, it shows how they keep changing story. Now, apparently, no one said the baby smells. Plus, they have gone from being in the way of other patrons to being to one side but still visible to being in a kitchenette.

If they conducted their arguments less like a runaway train they might hold on to some credibility. I can taste the desperation, the fear.

Ok, think of this, do you have to hide away in a corner, cubicle or the like when you are having lunch? Do you have to dine with a blanket over your head? Wouldn’t think so – therefore why should an infant!

Club Pink is hypocritical! A club for women – I think not!

And why we’re at it – spare a thought for those woman trying to breastfeed in shopping centres at the “designated areas” and being confronted with drug addicts getting their hit! Don’t believe me, have a seat outside the change rooms at Woden Plaza and you’ll be in for a treat.

Back to the point at hand, women’s gym – would have thought women understood the needs of other women! Next thing you know all breastfeeding women will be locked away, seen and not heard not unlike some of the tyranny we seem to expend alot of time, effort and lives to combat, no?

A few facts that might be of interest:
1) The two women were feeding their 11 & 15 wk old babies (who are therefore too young to do much more than feed & sleep) before dropping them at creche while they had their workout.
2) This was happening in the kitchen area – not near gym equipment, and not near anything more dangerous than in their own kitchens at home.
3) It is ILLEGAL to stop a woman breastfeeding a baby. The anti-discrimination law is there because babies of 11 & 15 wks should be getting their nutrition from mother’s milk – to stop a mother breastfeeding means the baby goes hungry.
4) Many women who breastfeed get shitty about being forced to go hide in a back room to feed their baby, when they could be feeding baby at the same time as getting on with other day-to-day tasks. Like having a quick cuppa before their workout. Breastfeeding is justa normal part of life when you’re a mother.
5) When Ross from 666 asked Harry the gym manager if he’d had complaints about the women breastfeeding from other gym customers, all Harry could repeat was they’d had complaints about a woman who showered her 5 kids at the gym the week before. So I guess that means nobody complained about the breastfeeding.

People who are offended by the sight of a woman feeding a baby need a reality check: boobs have a biological function.

If I ever need to join a women’s-only gym, it will be Fernwood where I’ve heard they don’t mind women feeding their baby before a workout.

So you are saying these issues are being left out on purpose?

The parents room at cisac is woefully inadequate, but there is not much talk about the creche. But then, it is next to impossible to BF an infant with noisy kids running around.

They can make a serious attempt to cater to BF mums or lose this portion of business. The facilities as they stand do not meet the needs.

theres a bit missing from the Gym’s side of the arguement that hasn’t been raised here, or in the CT article.

Firstly, the two ladies were breastfeeding in Club Pink’s kitchen area, which doesn raise insurance issues for the Clubs management.

2nd – The ladies were provided with terms and conditions of membership upon joining, terms which indicate they are not allowed to breastfeed in the club pink area of CISAC. The Club’s decision to not enforce those conditions until now is irrelivant.

The Club is NOT a public space

3rd – There are appropriate facilities in the CISAC complex provided for women to breastfeed their infants, including the attached creche where those same babies may be left attended and cared for while mum works out.

baby poo smells
so do the sweaty unshaven underarms of the socialite types that would be offended by the apearance of a baby (and so do the club pink ads might I say)
You know what get’s my goat though….gratuitous display of the Hoff…

There is no stink. Get it in your heads. If the baby does its biz, they take the baby to where it can be changed, which isn’t in the gym. Breastfeeding doesn’t stink either. What a ridiculous suggestion.

Saying the kids stink is grasping at straws that don’t even exist.

Oh, and I, an almost obsessively clean bloke, stink after exercising. On any given day the bloke on the treadmill is likely to be sweating out last nights curry and beer and the lass on the rowing machine is farting out her protein shakes. A bit of breast milk or a pooie nappy isn’t likely to lower the air quality to any noticable effect.

Club Pink is a ladies only gym. The mothers who attend their are likely doing so in order to get back into shape after having a baby. If this isn’t an appropiate place to brest feed, WHERE IS?

Afaik Club Pink is even attached to a child minding service. If and when we (Mr & Mrs Pig) have a child I see it as appropiate for her to breast feed in a all womans gym such as Club Pink should she wish to. Don’t realy have a problem should someone wish to breast feed anywhere realy but I can see that as a more comfortable place to do so as far as exercising goes.

Bloody stupid idea of the club to dispute it IMHO.

I think the issues was the breastfeeding stinking, not the poo.

And I just don’t think it’s fair that women who don’t have access to child care should not be able to go to the gym or shopping. As a single parent myself, and as far as my social life goes, ifI can’t take my kid with me, I can’t go! (granted, she’s now 9 and I’m PRETTY sure she doesn’t stink and is certainly never cause for me to get my boob out…).

Babies stink.

I’m afraid if that is news to you and you’re in the googaa club, but they stink.

Last thing I wanna smell when I’m pumping 80kg is something that’s gonna make me gag, which baby shit does.

Now since I’m a boy and hadn’t ever heard of club pink until you mentioned it (I initially assumed it would be a Gay Bar), and don’t know the internal schematic of the area, if said babies were in the same room as the weightlifting equipment, then yes, as a paying customer who quite frankly is paying a shitload of money to go to an exclusive gym that stinks of baby shit, yes I would be pissed off.

OK we shouldn’t be putting mothers into desperation, but they don’t have the right to make everybody else around them miserable.

And no I don’t give way to them in the supermarket either. This self-opinion that I should get out of my way just because you have decided to come to the supermarket with a pram and child just isn’t reason enough for me to change my traffic route unfortunately.

But hey, you want to be treated the same anyways don’t ya’s, so it is really me just being Feminist by treating you like everybody else.

That’s simply my humble opinion, I know it’ll probably be flamed, but since I’m a supporter for majority groups I suppose that’ll always be the case.

I just don’t like the smell of baby shit.

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