Cyclist v Cyclist on bike lights

PoQ said :

>logic train wreck<

Ain't no street lights on bike paths, dude. Nor does fishing have much in common with cycle commuting.

When cycling next to car traffic on Monaro highway at night I go for a ‘WTF?’ effect.

No less than two super bright rear blinkers, preferably three, orange blinker on the frame to be seen from the side plus wheel blinkers, front blinkers plus bar light and helmet light.

Aeek said :

I’m commuting with a 600 lumens LED mounted on my bars.

what model is it?, if it’s 600 actual you would be causing physical pain to others coming toward you.

why buy a light system that’s made for night mtb and so unsuited to commuting?

i run 400 on both head and bars but the bar light only runs at half because even 400 is too bright for a light that can’t be turned away.

Aeek said :

ironically mostly from riders with helmet lights who are dazzling me.

hehe, that’s me, I purposely light up the face of riders that don’t dip their high powered lights, you’re welcome.

I’m commuting with a 600 lumens LED mounted on my bars. Most of my ride home, Woden-Aranda via Scrivener dam is completely unlit path. Next to Lady Denham Drive by “The Farm” is even worse.
Oncoming cars blind me if I don’t use full power, and even then its still marginal, a worry given the frequency of fallen branches there. My older HID, also bar mounted, 650 lumens (550 low!) is better through there.
Neither mounting is capable of dipping, and I need them angled for maximum benefit as there are some spots where its absolutely needed, and also for seeing ninja cyclists and pedestrians at more than point blank.
Tried using the lower power settings, just mean I don’t see as well and still attracted the rare complaints at the same rate, ironically mostly from riders with helmet lights who are dazzling me.

What does work is to swivel the light so the bright is next to the path, so I do that now. Unfortunately, there are a few tight spots where my hands are to busy to do that.

Personally, I deal with dazzling lights by looking at the left edge of the path, NOT at the light.
Prefer them to no lights, and the absolute worst, cheapskates who use red flashers as front lights.
They confuse people both as to side of the path and closing speed, good for head on crashes.

Benaresq said :

PoQ said :

Bright lights make a bad situation worse. The object of the standard lights is to be seen by other road users. Anything brighter than that wrecks your own night vision as well as that of other road users. That can’t be a good thing. Its useless posing, like those dingbats who drive around with their driving lights on during the day.

There’s enough streetlights about – even in the remote darkness of Queanbeyan – that anyone with decent night vision doesn’t need them. To quote Nino Culotta in “Gone Fishin'”, “…you can see better at night without a torch”.

I assume that’s why when you drive your car at night you only use the parkers?

I’m sorry if I offend you, but when I ride at night I want to see and I want to be seen. I’d rather offend you than be squished like a bug.

Ive got a 500 lumen light on my bike and im quiet keen on getting one of those 1400 lumen lights soon for extra brightness and I might replace my rear light for an improved extra bright red flashing strobe.

PoQ said :

Bright lights make a bad situation worse. The object of the standard lights is to be seen by other road users. Anything brighter than that wrecks your own night vision as well as that of other road users. That can’t be a good thing. Its useless posing, like those dingbats who drive around with their driving lights on during the day.

There’s enough streetlights about – even in the remote darkness of Queanbeyan – that anyone with decent night vision doesn’t need them. To quote Nino Culotta in “Gone Fishin'”, “…you can see better at night without a torch”.

Y’all people are funny. Just because you never exceed 30Kph or ride on an unlit bike path at night doesn’t mean no one needs a decent light. Like someone said before, just point your light down more, it’s simple. Bright USB rechargeable lights are great.
And drivers, since your vehicle is the source of danger on the road the responsibility to be careful of other road users is on you. If you’re truly worried about hurting someone, ride a bike, you probably won’t ever hurt anyone.

PoQ said :

Bright lights make a bad situation worse. The object of the standard lights is to be seen by other road users. Anything brighter than that wrecks your own night vision as well as that of other road users. That can’t be a good thing. Its useless posing, like those dingbats who drive around with their driving lights on during the day.

There’s enough streetlights about – even in the remote darkness of Queanbeyan – that anyone with decent night vision doesn’t need them. To quote Nino Culotta in “Gone Fishin'”, “…you can see better at night without a torch”.

I assume that’s why when you drive your car at night you only use the parkers?

I’m sorry if I offend you, but when I ride at night I want to see and I want to be seen. I’d rather offend you than be squished like a bug.

Bright lights make a bad situation worse. The object of the standard lights is to be seen by other road users. Anything brighter than that wrecks your own night vision as well as that of other road users. That can’t be a good thing. Its useless posing, like those dingbats who drive around with their driving lights on during the day.

There’s enough streetlights about – even in the remote darkness of Queanbeyan – that anyone with decent night vision doesn’t need them. To quote Nino Culotta in “Gone Fishin'”, “…you can see better at night without a torch”.

Really, how far ahead do you need to see on a bike path?
Hopefully, You’re only going at say 30Km/h tops, (These are shared pathways after all).
Just angle the light towards the ground a little more rather than straight into peoples eyes, it’s that simple.

On a lighter note, 2 weeks ago while I was riding around lake Tuggeranong, I passed a young bloke headed in the other direction with a 3 foot flouro tube strapped across his handle bars.
For a few moments I thought I was being attacked by a jedi warrior.

Jivrashia said :

Seems like what needs to be said has mostly been said in the above posts.

But here’s my contribution to strobe lights.

Invested in a $500 HID light that attaches to the helmet. It is not as bright as those on, say, a motor bike, but bright enough to cause pedestrians to turn in surprise.
However, on two separate occasions motorists almost took me out. I’m not sure if there is a scientific explanation as to why they couldn’t see me, but they ended up crossing my path while I was riding inside the round-about, braking only at the very last minute to avoid crashing in to me.
And my light was on high, without strobe.

Now I ride with strobe mode on and feel quite confident that these annoyed motorists are never going to miss me.
… Oh wait….

Logical explanation #1. The HID light directs it’s beam toward where you are looking – no doubt the road in front of you. It will not spread out to the sides like a car’s park lights would, which a driver would be looking for. Perhaps your single blue spot got mixed up with the rest of the single blue spots of street lights in the background? If you were turning right on the roundabout and they cut in front of you, they may not have seen your indicator [or signalling arm] because it is pitch black!
That is the reason road using vehicles must have park and headlights, blinker and brake lights.

Jivrashia said :

I’m not sure if there is a scientific explanation as to why they couldn’t see me, but they ended up crossing my path while I was riding inside the round-about, braking only at the very last minute to avoid crashing in to me.
…….

They probably didn’t look to give way before charging on in…

I bet they’re the same people who drive with their high beam on.

Seems like what needs to be said has mostly been said in the above posts.

But here’s my contribution to strobe lights.

Invested in a $500 HID light that attaches to the helmet. It is not as bright as those on, say, a motor bike, but bright enough to cause pedestrians to turn in surprise.
However, on two separate occasions motorists almost took me out. I’m not sure if there is a scientific explanation as to why they couldn’t see me, but they ended up crossing my path while I was riding inside the round-about, braking only at the very last minute to avoid crashing in to me.
And my light was on high, without strobe.

Now I ride with strobe mode on and feel quite confident that these annoyed motorists are never going to miss me.
… Oh wait….

Perhaps a member of the ‘rat patrol’, with access to a social media platform could assist with the creation of a short punchy ‘light your frickin bike at night’ video…

You can probably blame in part all the MTB 24 hour comps and the changing technology in Canberra for all the dual helmet-mounted light systems out there.

It was once a struggle to keep halogen lights going through the night, even for commutes, and the heavy chunky batteries meant they were awkward and certainly not easy to stick on a helmet. But then, god bless, HID and then LED along with Lithium stepped in and suddenly every cyclist could stick a whole light-weight system on their helmet that would last for hours.

So a lot of MTBing commuter cyclists will leave their lamps on their heads because head lamps are far more effective at alerting others to your presence and spotting hazards.

Doesn’t excuse not dipping your head as a courtesy to oncoming path traffic.

KB1971 said :

Bluenomi said :

Synopsis: I am rendered unfit to operate a 1.5 ton vehicle when cycle lights blink at me

Please hand your licence in……..

Yes, I think that would be best for all concerned.

carnardly said :

there is a high volume of ninja cyclists around the ANU that seem to think all motorists around Barry Drive, Alinga Street and Northboune must have infrared vision.

If one copper stood at one corner, the fines they dish out could erase the national debt.

But I wish they’d be fair to drivers by making themselves visible.

I drive around there a bit, and have a number of close calls at night with cyclists who were unlit, and in some cases unhelmeted also.

I don’t want to hit one of these people, but I fear it may happen if cyclists don’t make themselves more visible.

there is a high volume of ninja cyclists around the ANU that seem to think all motorists around Barry Drive, Alinga Street and Northboune must have infrared vision. If one copper stood at one corner, the fines they dish out could erase the national debt.

But I wish they’d be fair to drivers by making themselves visible.

I am stunned to regularly see cyclists without lights. Anywhere – but especially in the Northbourne Ave on-road cycle lanes! I don’t understand why the police aren’t down there nicking them. They give all cyclists a bad name.

Also getting really cheesed off with the heroes who can’t possibly load their bikes up with another 5 grams of bell and use it. The “I’ll be past you before you can do anything stupid” argument I’ve heard here multiple times doesn’t stand the slightest scrutiny. You are a cyclist ergo you know that there is all sorts of crap and holes in the quaintly-named “cycle lane” that one must dart around at any moment. And you know that you get seriously pissed if anyone else gets inside your one-metre bubble. And even if you’ve got a mirror on your helmet, you know that it can be hard to pick a cycle light out of all the other lights in that tiny little image. So why the hell go flying by another cyclist 200mm off their handlebar without the decency of a bell ding?

Last night some moron did this to me on Flemington Rd at Mitchell where the “cycle lane” is maybe just a metre wide – as a bus was passing him!

Get a freaking bell…

PS: isn’t this a Friday topic? Then again – it is troll day.

On the flip side, can I urge everyone to check and change the batteries in their lights!?!? Those cheap red strobes with half-dead batteries are completely and utterly useless; some peoples front lights look like they’re powered by candles!

Personally I’m all for bright lights, provided they are a sharp spot beam and helmet mounted so you can turn them away from oncoming traffic.

Bluenomi said :

Grail said :

Bluenomi said :

Those strobe lights are annoying for drivers as well. Every night I get blinded by bike riders riding towards oncoming traffic with the damn things flashing and blinding you. And it’s not even a dark road, it’s Commonwealth ave!

Mission accomplished: you can’t avoid noticing them.

And as a bonus, you understand why leaving fog lights on when there is no fog is undesirable.

Yes but when they are on the cycle path behind a metal barricade and not on the road I don’t need to be that aware of them. Plus causing me to run up the back of a car because I can’t see isn’t going to help get them on a driver’s good side.

Also I don’t have fog lights to leave on so no idea why that is relevant.

Please hand your licence in……..

M0les said :

Aren’t the strobe lights “illegal” (as-in not standards compliant) – I recall a legend that a solid front/tail ight is required (Additional blinkies are allowed). I am, of course, far too lazy to go and look any road-rules/laws up and rely on the collective dilligence to correct or confirm this tale.

The relevant Road Rule is as follows:

259 Riding at night

The rider of a bicycle must not ride at night, or in hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility, unless the bicycle, or the rider, displays:
(a) a flashing or steady white light that is clearly visible for at least 200 metres from the front of the bicycle; and
(b) a flashing or steady red light that is clearly visible for at least 200 metres from the rear of the bicycle; and
(c) a red reflector that is clearly visible for at least 50 metres from the rear of the bicycle when light is
projected onto it by a vehicle’s headlight on low-beam.

So yes, a flashing front light is legal. As is attaching the lights to the rider, rather than the bicycle.

What is not legal is what I saw the other day: a flashing white light on the REAR of a bicycle! (But that’s marginally better than no lights and no reflectors which is too common a sight at night.)

Seriously, if you’re going to ride your bike on the road at night, install some f***ing lights!

What are the legal light rules for bikes over here? Are strobe lights even legal for use on pushbikes, or do they need to be below a certain level of oscillation?
I thought they could trigger epileptic fits, so not good for drivers and can cause distraction from the road ?
These things are only going to get brighter and brighter.

I was given a Cree torch from China, it’s brighter than my car headlights and ranges about 200m…I wasn’t even sure if these military grade things are legal, so i only use it for possum spotting, or i take it on holiday to dark places with no streetlights.
I guess it would be good for hunting or something? Too bright for a bike though, total overkill.

Bluenomi said :

Those strobe lights are annoying for drivers as well. Every night I get blinded by bike riders riding towards oncoming traffic with the damn things flashing and blinding you. And it’s not even a dark road, it’s Commonwealth ave!

If you are truly blinded by flashing lights at night (and not just trying to hype up the word) then you need to have your license restricted to driving in daylight hours only.

I think that you’re actually full of it.
Here’s a hint.
Don’t look at the bright lights.

I use a solid light both on my handlebars and my lid – both of which are pretty bright. I ride on main roads and dark gloomy areas and have had to dodge many an invisible jogger or dog walker – or another ninja cyclist with no lights. I usually turn my lid lights off when i see an oncoming cyclist (but not ninjas though!) but many a time say down a main drag I’ve kept them on for motorists and my own safety. Not because I can’t see, but because many pull up level with me, slow to my speed and then one quick flash of the blinker and they start to come over left across me to turn off somewhere.

So they get an immediate head turn and bright lights in their left passenger window, and a “what on earth are you trying to do?” look while I carry on straight ahead. I’m sure in those situations I’ve almost blinded a driver, but I don’t want to get taken out either. I am visible from well over 200 m from behind and surely if you want to turn left 300 m ahead you should be able to work out whether you’ll get past me in time, or whether you should just back your foot off the go pedal to slow and go behind me.

It happens incredibly frequently. Even the other night I was riding south along Melrose drive. Why do cars pull up level with you and the drivers start waving their arms at you because they want to turn left across a bike lane NOW!!! to get into a petrol station/off ramp/etc?

It really isn’t that hard. I don’t seem to have any trouble with cyclists when I’m in my car.

It’s the new cold war, light of ever increasing power, so powerful that they will destroy the world!!!!!

As a semi regular bicycle commuter I have invested in some fairly serious Lumens (initially I purchased them for Trail riding in the dark) and I have to say that they have made commuting on road, bike path and off road a whole lot better. I don’t think the problem is necessarily the overly powerful lights more the fact that cyclists tend to mount them on their bicycle helmets because people tend to look around and look at other cyclists and motorists in the face. If cyclists were to handlebar mount their Doomsday lights and use them to light where they are going, not where they are looking, the issue would be minimised. (For trail riding I still endorse handle bar and helmet combo as a minimum standard).
I think it is worth a note that, in my experience, people(cyclists) who argue against decent lights are people who use tiny single LED low power strobes that have no ability to light the way they are travelling, and in my opinion, given the speeds some cyclists travel at seeing where you are going is an important consideration.

Aren’t the strobe lights “illegal” (as-in not standards compliant) – I recall a legend that a solid front/tail ight is required (Additional blinkies are allowed). I am, of course, far too lazy to go and look any road-rules/laws up and rely on the collective dilligence to correct or confirm this tale.

Other than that, I’m all for night-time vehicular travellers (Bikes, cars, scooters, trucks, etc.) having adequate illumination. When there’s no oncoming traffic (*including pedestrians), high-beam lights are fine.

I encourage those with headlamps, regardless of their brightness or strobing, to be mindful to refrain from shining them directly into the eyes of any other traveller (*including pedestrians), whenever possible.

Other than that, everyone have safe, pleasant journeys!

Lights on bikes have two functions – to see with, and to be seen. The strobe (as several have noted already) is to be seen, and on Commonwealth Ave that’s doubly important for the cyclist because there’s som much other light pollution around to get through. Plus, a strobing light uses less power so your battery lasts longer. Win-win!

As to why people buy such strong lights – I’m sure part of it is because they’re so cheap now! About 7-8 years I bought what was at the time one of the brightest headlights available – a 12V 5W quartz halogen bulb. It WAS bright, but the only way it made your eyes water was when you remembered how much it cost. Now, for, less than $200 I can buy one of these bad boys (disclaimer: mate of mine) that’ll take out an eyeball at 20m.

Grail said :

Bluenomi said :

Those strobe lights are annoying for drivers as well. Every night I get blinded by bike riders riding towards oncoming traffic with the damn things flashing and blinding you. And it’s not even a dark road, it’s Commonwealth ave!

Mission accomplished: you can’t avoid noticing them.

And as a bonus, you understand why leaving fog lights on when there is no fog is undesirable.

Yes but when they are on the cycle path behind a metal barricade and not on the road I don’t need to be that aware of them. Plus causing me to run up the back of a car because I can’t see isn’t going to help get them on a driver’s good side.

Also I don’t have fog lights to leave on so no idea why that is relevant.

As much as i agree with you i recently was involved in a near collision with a cyclist on Canberra Ave at night during a blackout.The cyclist had a very poor front headlight which was practically invisible due to the light pollution from a stream of car travelling in the opposite direction.Yes definitely annoying but at least they’re visible!

On dark roads, I think the lights that actually light up the bike and the ground below it are safer. Just one strong light blinking and carrying on, you don’t know what you’re looking at. but lights that light up the bike, you know it’s a bike.

Bluenomi said :

Those strobe lights are annoying for drivers as well. Every night I get blinded by bike riders riding towards oncoming traffic with the damn things flashing and blinding you. And it’s not even a dark road, it’s Commonwealth ave!

Mission accomplished: you can’t avoid noticing them.

And as a bonus, you understand why leaving fog lights on when there is no fog is undesirable.

Those strobe lights are annoying for drivers as well. Every night I get blinded by bike riders riding towards oncoming traffic with the damn things flashing and blinding you. And it’s not even a dark road, it’s Commonwealth ave!

As a lapsed cyclist I full support using the brightest light you can get your grubby little hands on, and I also support a violent beating for people who use them inappropriately. If you are on a suburban street, for example, you can afford to aim your light much lower, and on a lower power setting, then if you are on the back trails at stromlo.

It would be good if some of those lights had a dimmer.

They are staggering.

Most people who have them do look away a bit though.

I ride out to the suburbs where there are no street lights.
Bright lights are essential when trying to spot deaf dog walkers with black dogs who may or may not be on leashes and may or may not be set on trying to bite you.
If you don’t have a bright light they won’t see you coming, and they certainly won’t hear you, cause their either old or wearing headphones. Bright lights also help spot dog turds on the path.
I do try to shield or look away from oncoming riders and walkers tho because I know they’re bright. I also ring my bell and slow down.

I’m not a regular commuter cyclist, but I had exactly the same thoughts heading around West Basin just after dusk yesterday. Some of them really are blindingly bright