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Dunne v. Gallagher church spat goes international

By johnboy 23 January 2013 39

Just before Christmas we took notice of a strange little spat being fought out by proxy between Speaker Dunne, who wants a little church service to start the Assembly sitting year, and Chief Minister Gallagher who doesn’t want a bar of it.

The row is now running on the UK’s National Secular Society.

Ms Gallagher said on Tuesday that the ceremony could be seen as the beginning of a formal link between the Assembly and the church if she attended. ”’I don’t want to appear churlish or disrespectful, my declining of the invitation is to make sure we keep the Assembly as the secular institution it has always been. If that is to change it should be done by a vote of the Assembly, not a day that was organised by the Speaker.”

Mrs Dunne confirmed that the ceremony would go ahead whether the Chief Minister attended. ”As is completely proper I extended an invitation to the Chief Minister,” she said. Whether the Chief Minister decides to attend this community event or not is completely her decision.”

Katy gets to be a hero to her Dawkins worshippers (on a global stage no less) and Vicki plays the martyr to her fundies and the applause of the ACL.

Both walk away happy from this one.

What’s Your opinion?


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Dunne v. Gallagher church spat goes international
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aevans 7:59 am 25 Jan 13

LSWCHP said :

dtc said :

Even if you are Christian you must recognise that such a service implies that non Christians are ‘outsiders’ in the politicial process and hence not important enough to take into account. Exactly why the Lords Prayer should not be said in Federal parliament.

Damn straight. It makes me grind my teeth every time I hear it. It’s a tiny little poke in the eye to every non-christian in the country.

Please write/email Vicki Dunne http://www.parliament.act.gov.au/members/160.asp to express your disapproval.

aevans 7:57 am 25 Jan 13

davo101 said :

dtc said :

Indeed, in Australia, there is no legal requirement for separation

Except for this.

Thank you for this. For all those people who think that this isn’t a big deal; this is a secular institution that is supposed to represent all Canberrans.

LSWCHP 6:54 pm 23 Jan 13

dtc said :

Even if you are Christian you must recognise that such a service implies that non Christians are ‘outsiders’ in the politicial process and hence not important enough to take into account. Exactly why the Lords Prayer should not be said in Federal parliament.

Damn straight. It makes me grind my teeth every time I hear it. It’s a tiny little poke in the eye to every non-christian in the country.

tuco 6:53 pm 23 Jan 13

Hang on – somebody gets to ride a pony? I thought riding a goat was the accepted aspect of behind-the-scenes powerplays.

davo101 4:15 pm 23 Jan 13

dtc said :

Indeed, in Australia, there is no legal requirement for separation

Except for this.

dtc 3:54 pm 23 Jan 13

Actually, the US only requires the President to make an ‘oath or affirmation’. Obviously if the President is Christian, then the oath is made on a bible. If (in the unlikely event) the President is an aethiest or (even more unlikely) non-Christian religion, then the affirmation or oath will not involve a bible.

The US has much clearer and stricter separation of church and state. Indeed, in Australia, there is no legal requirement for separation – when people make this claim generallythey are making an argument based entirely on concepts originating with the USA, not concepts that apply to Australia or the UK (hint: the head of our constitutional government is also the head of a religion…)

That said, there is no reason to force someone to attend a church service when its linked to a political activity. Even if you are Christian you must recognise that such a service implies that non Christians are ‘outsiders’ in the politicial process and hence not important enough to take into account. Exactly why the Lords Prayer should not be said in Federal parliament.

Jim Jones 3:18 pm 23 Jan 13

Chop71 said :

Jim Jones said :

Chop71 said :

Jim Jones said :

Chop71 said :

Jim Jones said :

Chop71 said :

wow, most pressing issue Canberra has faced since the election.

We need more politicians to sort out these types of squabbles.

So … you turned to say that you’ve got nothing to add? Or is it just to say that politicians should only do *really really important things* and that everything else is a massive waste of your valuable time?

: golfclap :

Yes Jim,

You’ve nailed it. I hope there is more to running the LA (and residents of Canberra) than who attends a church service.

But if you think this holds huge importance, then you ride that pony.

In an amazing feat, I will now do more than one thing at the one time … some of the things I will do are less important than others, but – to the amazement of all – I will still do them at the same time … and … (here’s the big reveal) … I’ll do it without whining like a little b1tch!

You could even ride the pony to the church service, that would be 2 birds with one stone.

Why are you talking about your pony so much? Surely we all have better things to do than to listen to you talk about your pony? Do you really think that your pony is the most important thing in the world?

There are children starving and people being bashed and wrongfully imprisoned and all you can do is talk about your pony.

Jim,
the pony reference is in relation to you riding your high horse.

As for the starving children, people being bashed, wrongful imprisonment and everything else you’d like to bring up ….. yeah sure ….. attend a church service if that’s your wish.

If you don’t want to attend a church service maybe you should run for the assembly and fix the problems of the world.

For now though it might be best if you have a rest and get that blood pressure down.

… said the dude whining about a post about the separation of church and state.

Chop71 3:08 pm 23 Jan 13

Jim Jones said :

Chop71 said :

Jim Jones said :

Chop71 said :

Jim Jones said :

Chop71 said :

wow, most pressing issue Canberra has faced since the election.

We need more politicians to sort out these types of squabbles.

So … you turned to say that you’ve got nothing to add? Or is it just to say that politicians should only do *really really important things* and that everything else is a massive waste of your valuable time?

: golfclap :

Yes Jim,

You’ve nailed it. I hope there is more to running the LA (and residents of Canberra) than who attends a church service.

But if you think this holds huge importance, then you ride that pony.

In an amazing feat, I will now do more than one thing at the one time … some of the things I will do are less important than others, but – to the amazement of all – I will still do them at the same time … and … (here’s the big reveal) … I’ll do it without whining like a little b1tch!

You could even ride the pony to the church service, that would be 2 birds with one stone.

Why are you talking about your pony so much? Surely we all have better things to do than to listen to you talk about your pony? Do you really think that your pony is the most important thing in the world?

There are children starving and people being bashed and wrongfully imprisoned and all you can do is talk about your pony.

Jim,
the pony reference is in relation to you riding your high horse.

As for the starving children, people being bashed, wrongful imprisonment and everything else you’d like to bring up ….. yeah sure ….. attend a church service if that’s your wish.

If you don’t want to attend a church service maybe you should run for the assembly and fix the problems of the world.

For now though it might be best if you have a rest and get that blood pressure down.

Jim Jones 2:54 pm 23 Jan 13

Masquara said :

Jim Jones said :

Masquara said :

Well that bastion of church/state separation the united states has the prez swearing on the bible, and as we atheists actually don’t think a prayer will do anything, equally we should be thinking it will do no harm whatsoever and is a well-meaning folly that should be indulged.

We should also totally teach creationism in school … it’s just well-meaning after all innit?

Raaaather a long bow there. Specious actually.

“Specious” … my my, we’ve been learning some fancy new words, haven’t we!

Personally, I’m a big fan of your phrase ‘well meaning folly’, which apparently includes religions attempting to have their rituals (and presumably beliefs and ideologies) entrenched in the rituals of the state. Of course it’s no big deal, because the US does it, and they’re really good when it comes to the separation of church and state: allowing the teaching of creationism in schools, for example.

Masquara 2:27 pm 23 Jan 13

Jim Jones said :

Masquara said :

Well that bastion of church/state separation the united states has the prez swearing on the bible, and as we atheists actually don’t think a prayer will do anything, equally we should be thinking it will do no harm whatsoever and is a well-meaning folly that should be indulged.

We should also totally teach creationism in school … it’s just well-meaning after all innit?

Raaaather a long bow there. Specious actually.

Jim Jones 2:19 pm 23 Jan 13

Masquara said :

Well that bastion of church/state separation the united states has the prez swearing on the bible, and as we atheists actually don’t think a prayer will do anything, equally we should be thinking it will do no harm whatsoever and is a well-meaning folly that should be indulged.

We should also totally teach creationism in school … it’s just well-meaning after all innit?

Jim Jones 2:18 pm 23 Jan 13

Masquara said :

Well that bastion of church/state separation the united states has the prez swearing on the bible, and as we atheists actually don’t think a prayer will do anything, equally we should be thinking it will do no harm whatsoever and is a well-meaning folly that should be indulged.

Yeah, sure, having everyone kowtowing to a bunch of religious nutsacks could never ever cause any problems at all.

Religious people would never try to impose their beliefs on others.

Masquara 2:12 pm 23 Jan 13

Well that bastion of church/state separation the united states has the prez swearing on the bible, and as we atheists actually don’t think a prayer will do anything, equally we should be thinking it will do no harm whatsoever and is a well-meaning folly that should be indulged.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 2:09 pm 23 Jan 13

Chop71 said :

Jim Jones said :

Chop71 said :

wow, most pressing issue Canberra has faced since the election.

We need more politicians to sort out these types of squabbles.

So … you turned to say that you’ve got nothing to add? Or is it just to say that politicians should only do *really really important things* and that everything else is a massive waste of your valuable time?

: golfclap :

Yes Jim,

You’ve nailed it. I hope there is more to running the LA (and residents of Canberra) than who attends a church service.

But if you think this holds huge importance, then you ride that pony.

The importance being that it shows those who are out dated and half witted and those who are smarter and do t believe in magic sky fairey.

Jim Jones 2:03 pm 23 Jan 13

Chop71 said :

Jim Jones said :

Chop71 said :

Jim Jones said :

Chop71 said :

wow, most pressing issue Canberra has faced since the election.

We need more politicians to sort out these types of squabbles.

So … you turned to say that you’ve got nothing to add? Or is it just to say that politicians should only do *really really important things* and that everything else is a massive waste of your valuable time?

: golfclap :

Yes Jim,

You’ve nailed it. I hope there is more to running the LA (and residents of Canberra) than who attends a church service.

But if you think this holds huge importance, then you ride that pony.

In an amazing feat, I will now do more than one thing at the one time … some of the things I will do are less important than others, but – to the amazement of all – I will still do them at the same time … and … (here’s the big reveal) … I’ll do it without whining like a little b1tch!

You could even ride the pony to the church service, that would be 2 birds with one stone.

Why are you talking about your pony so much? Surely we all have better things to do than to listen to you talk about your pony? Do you really think that your pony is the most important thing in the world?

There are children starving and people being bashed and wrongfully imprisoned and all you can do is talk about your pony.

chewy14 12:53 pm 23 Jan 13

johnboy said :

I think the speaker has pretty clearly linked this service to the Assembly.

Thanks.

If that’s the case, then I think that Katy has done the right thing.

dungfungus 12:49 pm 23 Jan 13

What happened at the start of previous sitting years, especially when Stanhope was Chief Minister?

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