11 January 2024

Electric vehicles can be holiday savers, Climate Council analysis shows

| Ian Bushnell
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Charging an EV

Charging rather than filling up means big savings on a holiday road trip. Photo: James Coleman.

Driving an electric vehicle (EV) can slash the cost of summer road trips, particularly on shorter runs such as to the South Coast, new analysis from the Climate Council shows.

The Climate Council says driving a lower or zero emissions vehicle could cut fuel bills to almost a fifth of what Canberra drivers would otherwise pay.

The analysis shows drivers on popular holiday routes from Canberra can save up to $177 on their journey with a battery EV and up to $127 with a more fuel-efficient petrol car, compared with the average petrol-guzzling car.

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It covered three journeys – Canberra to Huskisson, Melbourne and Byron Bay – using an average passenger car, a more fuel-efficient internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle and a battery charging EV.

The average passenger car cost $213 to get to Byron Bay, the more efficient vehicle $86, while the EV cost only $36, a saving of $127 and $177 respectively.

To Melbourne, it was a $136 trip compared to $55 and $23, a saving of $81 and $113.

To Huskisson the EV charge cost just $7, compared to a fuel bill of $40 and $16 in the other vehicles, savings of $33 and $24.

The Climate Council says charging at home with rooftop solar could bring even greater savings for EV drivers.

Hiring an EV was also an option.

The analysis comes in the midst of a cost-of-living crisis and as new figures show new sales of EVs doubling in 2023 to be 7 per cent of total new sales.

The ACT take-up was higher, soaring from 1280 in 2022 to 3396 (18 per cent) out of the 18,531 new vehicles that Canberrans drove home.

Climate Council Head of Advocacy Dr Jennifer Rayner said the analysis strengthened the case for an Australian Fuel Efficiency Standard, which would pave the way for more EV models to come onto the market, reduce prices and make them more accessible to car buyers.

Dr Rayner said the Federal Government had rightly taken a measured and consultative approach to introducing the standard but the time had passed for designing it and the policy should be delivered this year.

“It’s still very hard for a lot of people to get an electric or lower emissions vehicle in price points that they can access because we just don’t have the same range here in Australia,” she said.

“Its fuel efficiency standards are really about unlocking the range and the choice that people already have in other markets for Australians to be able to then pick the vehicle that works best for them.”

Dr Jennifer Rayner

Climate Council Head of Advocacy Dr Jennifer Rayner: EVs can cut emissions and save Australians money.

Dr Rayner said the council’s research showed drivers were cutting their travel to save money on fuel so the interest in a cheaper running alternative was there.

She said charging infrastructure was rapidly improving and EV drivers were learning how to use their vehicles and manage their journeys better.

“If you compare this summer in this road trip season with the previous year, where there was a lot of discussion online about people having to queue at charging infrastructure along popular routes, we haven’t seen anywhere near as much of that this year,” Dr Rayner said.

As the world recorded its hottest year on record, Dr Rayner said switching to electric vehicles was a really practical way for Australians to cut harmful carbon pollution, given transport was producing a rising share of emissions.

“So if we don’t do something about transport, we’re not going to be able to really tackle the big challenge of harmful climate change, which we’re seeing is already harming Australians around the country including through the kinds of really extreme weather in Queensland at the moment, and last year’s record year of high temperatures,” she said.

“So we need to do this from a climate and environment perspective. But the real bonus is that it will help Australians cut their cost of living at a time when it’s a huge pressure for them.”

Melbourne-based Bryce Gaton, has been working on EVs since 2008 and contributes to The Driven and founded EV Choice, and regularly makes the trip to Sydney, sometimes via Canberra, in a Hyundai Kona, which does more than 500 km around town and 420 km on the highway.

He said improving EV battery and charging infrastructure had made longer journeys along popular routes much easier, and shorter trips such as to the South Coast from Canberra could rely on home charging at both ends, the cost of which would be negligible if rooftop solar was available.

After a full charge at home, a number of apps were available to locate available chargers, and a stop every two to three hours for a 15- to 20-minute charge was only what drivers should do on a long journey to avoid fatigue.

Mr Gaton said the main obstacle to more chargers along highways was the poles and wires people or Distributed Network Service Providers, who take far too long to approve and connect them.

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Also an electrician, Mr Gaton said home charging could rely on a normal power point but his rule of thumb is that if you’re doing more than four hours of charging twice a week, go up a size.

Smart chargers allowed for efficient and economical charging, and could prioritise solar during the day. They also had timers, along with EVs themselves, to charge at the cheapest time of the day.

They would only be getting more sophisticated and interactive with the grid in the next 12 months to make charging even more efficient and cheaper.

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Did anyone fact check the figures used here?
Or did we forget that we can’t pay roof top solar rates for charging the EV while on a 1000km trip?

Supercharger cost of .79c and a fuel rate of 142w /km 1000km = $112.18

Far different from the $36 claimed. More if you add heating/cooling. Include extra time to recharge, you’re paying whatever the rate is. Plus if you stop at a supercharger and your car is full you keep paying until you go collect your car.

Did you forget to include the added cost of the purchase price, the higher depreciation, on EVs as they are early adopters and any changes in battery tech will show how dangerous they are.

@gooterz
… and as I said to another of your anti-EV gang, gooterz – despite all of that negativity, EVs are still cheaper over the life of the vehicle than a comparable ICE. And the good thing is that as the EV technology continues to improve the gap will get even wider.

But, hey – you don’t like EVs? Don’t buy one.

Sorry my facts cause you to feel bad. I’m not used to the current feeling based science methods.

The article doesn’t even read well.
“a saving of $127 and $177 respectively.”
This is poor editing, it should be $177 and $127 respectfully.

Lets fix it up.

The average passenger car cost $213 (Cost $147 + $66 tax) to get to Byron Bay, the more efficient vehicle $86 (Cost $59 + $27 tax), while the EV cost only $112.18 (Cost $101 + $11 Tax) Cost , a saving of $101 and -$26 respectively.
The government also collects $55 and $16 less tax respectfully.

The average person would assume that if one tax goes down, another rises up to replace it.

We only have a bare number of people using EV’s and the cost is already more expensive than a fuel efficient car of the same size. The fuel efficent car is paying a higher rate of tax.

If we all go EV, the price of cars sky rockets, the price of electricity sky rockets and taxes need to be increased.

Whats the point? We currently burn coal to power these cars. The current green power powers the current load on the grid, any additional load is only met by burning more coal.

“Did anyone fact check the figures used here?”
You evidently did not check your own figures, or perhaps merely selected them for your own propaganda.

Of course you cannot use solar charging on an entire 1000 km trip. It serves the first 400+ km though. Don’t you like that?

Then you used a top ultra-charge rate, and even inflated that cost. Try 50c/kW as a current price, just like most people buy ordinary unleaded rather than 98 RON.

These bring the price down to $45.87 for a trip to Byron, little more than half the price of the “efficient vehicle”.

Most chargers price per kWH, not time. Though charging by time, as some do, makes good sense to get people out of the way so someone else can charge. Ever been stuck at a small petrol station waiting for a pump while the person in front wanders around the shop and toilets? Same issue, move them on for the benefit of others.

Hate to mention it but EV prices come down as demand and production rise. Burning more coal will not be needed as non-fossil fuels continue to take over.

Capital Retro5:15 pm 21 Jan 24

Reports this afternoon of a Coles Express delivery truck burning fiercely near Cootamundra.

Possibly an electric one?

@Capital Retro
Really, CR? “Reports”? A quick google search hasn’t revealed a single mention – let alone reports.

Gee, CR, I would have thought “a Coles Express delivery truck burning fiercely” would have at least generated some interest from the Murdoch press – but nothing at all.

… and of course you have no agenda in trying to fabricate news about an EV fire do you? Thankfully, you have no credibility on the subject to damage, so no harm done.

Capital Retro12:17 pm 22 Jan 24

https://www.abc.net.au/emergency/warning/nsw/AUREMER-4a55f019d292c0af5018a34fab627f57

The reference to a Coles Express vehicle was in an earlier report. Get yourself an updated browser.

@Capital Retro
So that link constitutes “Reports”?

OK – so where’s the fire, CR …. I note in the Information from NSW Rural Fire Service “Fire: No”.

Q. You deduced it was an EV because?
A. You wanted it to be an EV.

Justsaying,
Hilariously through sleuthing on a local Cootamundra Facebook page, I’ve found references to a truck roll-over yesterday at that specific location. Which is the motor vehicle accident CR has referenced.

How he’s somehow gone from that to a vehicle fire, to it being an EV fire is anyone’s guess. Other than the fact that he clearly attempts to link any fire to EVs with his selective googling that is.

Also seems strange when Coles only began trialling its first delivery EV vehicle a few months ago.

https://www.colesgroup.com.au/media-releases/?page=coles-welcomes-first-fully-electric-delivery-van-to-its-online-fleet-as-the-retailer-commits-to-installing-electric-fridges-in-500-delivery-vans

This is the latest media reporting on the rarity of EV fires from what I think is a reputable source CR!

https://theconversation.com/electric-vehicle-fires-are-very-rare-the-risk-for-petrol-and-diesel-vehicles-is-at-least-20-times-higher-213468

I find it ironic that you have previously trashed the ABC for its reporting but are relying on it now to try and prove a point. Ironically, I remember on a few occasions in the past and in the last few weeks you have linked to right wing media and the unreliable Sky News try to win an argument! I prefer more reliable sources!!

@chewy14, Jack D.
I think we can now say “Case dimissed with prejucide”

Capital Retro10:46 pm 22 Jan 24

It’s a shame you can’t understand the relevant data in the link I gave you.
Rural Fire Services attend fires and they are sometimes classed as “out of control”. They also state what is burning and in this case it was “MVA/Transport” (that means “truck”)

As I said before, in an earlier report the vehicle involved was described as a “Coles Express” delivery truck. All refences to “Coles” have been expunged since. Coles have many electric powered home delivery trucks by the way. Do some more “Googling” chewy. I did not say at anytime it was an electric truck.

Information from NSW Rural Fire Service
ALERT LEVEL: Not Applicable
LOCATION: GUNDAGAI RD, COOTAMUNDRA 2590
COUNCIL AREA: Cootamundra-Gundagai
STATUS: Out of control
TYPE: MVA/Transport
FIRE: No
SIZE: 0 ha
RESPONSIBLE AGENCY: Rural Fire Service
UPDATED: 21 Jan 2024 16:53 More information
Incident Name GUNDAGAI RD, COOTAMUNDRA
Status Out of control
Location GUNDAGAI RD, COOTAMUNDRA 2590
Size 0 ha
Incident type MVA/Transport

Capital Retro,
That us the worst spin I’ve seen.

Your comment:
“Reports this afternoon of a Coles Express delivery truck burning fiercely near Cootamundra.

Possibly an electric one?”

You clearly attempted to infer there was an electric vehicle fire, when there is zero evidence that occurred.

And even worse, you don’t understand that the Rural Fire Service us also often used to help attend vehicle accidents, where no fire has yet occurred or there is only a risk that one may occur due to the nature of the accident.

The “evidence” you’ve provided literally says, Motor Vehicle Accident, no fire.

Details on the Cootamundra Matters Facebook page refer to the incident as a stock truck that rolled over, nothing relating to a fire.

“Coles have many electric powered home delivery trucks by the way. Do some more “Googling” chewy”

Provide a link then, the one above is from 4 months ago talking about their first ever EV delivery truck. I’ve found one other reference to a 2022 trial of one other EV.

And you keep talking about “earlier reports” but can provide no evidence of any reports. Your attempt to spin your way out of this is one of the funnier things I’ve seen on this website in a long while.

“Earlier reports”. LOL.

@Capital Retro
OK, CR, if “a Coles Express delivery truck (was) burning fiercely near Cootamundra” as you reported, how come that single link is the only offical reference to it. Still NO media coverage anywhere else.

Oh, there’s post about a truck tollover in the ‘Cootamundra Matters’ facebook page – “Truck rollover Gundagai Road and Florence Street” (https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=cootamundra%20matters) … nothing about a fire or Coles Express delivery truck. Apparently, Claudia Davey’s post: “whomever that walked their dog in Cooper St and allowed their pooch into my yard to take a turd” generated a lot more comment.

“Do some more “Googling” chewy. I did not say at anytime it was an electric truck.” Really, CR? The fact that you posted a vehicle fire comment on an EV-related thread had no relationship whatsoever to your pathetic campaign against EVs? And “Possibly an electric one?” was merely an irrelevant aside was it?

Transport for london just pulled their entire new EV fleet, they couldn’t work out why their new buses caught fire. These buses didnt just have a small engine fire, their entire buses lost, completely dangerous in seconds.

Hertz USA also dumped their entire fleet of EV’s, claiming it was too expensive to maintain. going back to petrol.

Capital Retro12:20 pm 23 Jan 24

The RFS post gives the incident location as Gundagai Road, Cootamundra, not Florence Street.
And it is an established fact that Linfox is providing electric delivery truck services to Coles, Woolworths and if you read the Linfox website you would see all the other companies too are using them so why not an electric one?

It may explain why the original report has disappeared because problems with EVs are not always reported.

Glad you enjoyed the dog turd comments though. It does you good to get off you high-horse occasionally.

Gooterz,
your claim about the London buses is just made up. They haven’t pulled their fleet of EV buses and have run safety checks on them after the recent fires.

Interestingly, most of those buses have been hybrid buses, not pure EV’s. Hybrid vehicles actually have worse fire risks than either ICE vehicles or straight EV’s which are the safest. So perhaps those outcomes will simply lead to a faster transition to EV’s.

And the main reason Hertz has decided to sell some of their EV fleet is because of faster depreciation of those vehicles.

The main reason for that faster depreciation?

Because the cost of new EV’s keep coming down as the technology improves which depresses the resale market. Well done on showing how EV technology is constantly improving with reduced prices making them more competitive every year.

Capital Retro,
This is beyond unhinged now. Even when provided with direct evidence showing you to be wrong, you continue without providing a shred of evidence to back up your position.

Really outing the very low value of your opinion on most issues.

Gundagai Road, crosses Florence St. The Facebook post literally says Gundagai Rd and Florence St. ie. the corner of those two roads.

“And it is an established fact that Linfox is providing electric delivery truck services to Coles,”

Is it now?

And yet you can’t provide any evidence to show this is the case. They’ve been trialling 1 specific truck and there is no mention of others or a wider rollout. So out of the 5000 odd Linfox trucks, you somehow think in your imagination that the truck realistically could be an EV.

“It may explain why the original report has disappeared because problems with EVs are not always reported.”

Tin foil hat time. Maybe the aliens did it.

Good to see you admit that you have no actual reports though. Thanks for clarifying that you’ve just been making stuff up.

“Glad you enjoyed the dog turd comments though”

There’s definitely been comments containing excrement, just not where you think.

@chewy14
Well said.

Capital Retro5:30 pm 19 Jan 24

A news report last night comparing two identical BMW sedans (One electric and the other premium petrol) travelling to Melbourne from Sydney.

The petrol one was cheapest on fuel and got there quickest.

Also, massive e-scooter warehouse fire in Sydney and another e-scooter recharge went wrong in Sydney yesterday destroying a shop and unit above: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-05/emergency-services-battle-to-save-factory-after-fire-at-croydon/103286818

The petrol one also paid the fuel excise. A tax that doesn’t exist in EV land, and will result in higher taxes.

Same model car, one ICE the other an EV. Guess which one cost more to run in a trip from Melbourne to Sydney. You say only $14 difference in the running cost. Both are rich man’s toys at $344,900 (EV) and $272,900 (ICE). The EV weighs more than my 4WD!. About those heavy lumbering 4WD doing damage to roads. Well watch and observe the range anxiety
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggn1zQMMZMI

Capital Retro8:33 pm 17 Jan 24

I would love to have the franchise for one of these in Canberra:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-17/new-electric-vehicle-roadside-assistance-van-launched/103350262

My van would be diesel powered of course.

@Capital Retro
The NRMA (https://www.nrma.com.au/roadside-assistance), and other roadside assistance providers, have been providing “help … with empty fuel tanks” for years.
So what’s your point, CR?

https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/roadside-assistance-australia/guides/roadside-assistance-survey.html

Justsaying,
ironically for CR, almost half of roadside assistance callouts today are for ICE vehicles with a flat battery. Mechanical issues, also far more prevalent on ICE vehicles compared to EV’s were another 29%.

Capital Retro10:38 am 18 Jan 24

Most EVs have a normal 12v battery the same as ICE powered vehicles so they will need roadside callouts too. But you knew that, didn’t you.

chewy14
OMG, chewy – how dare you produce facts to stymie CR’s crusade!

Capital Retro11:18 am 18 Jan 24

It’s a long time since I have seen an ICE car by the side of a road that has run out of fuel.

If they have run out there is a fuel station not far away and most of my colleagues always carry spare ICE fuel anyhow. I suppose your EV mates carry a can of spare electrons too, ha ha.

Capital Retro11:33 am 18 Jan 24

So, it’s disinformation to post a link now JS? Or is anything that doesn’t align with your woke mindset not allowed.

CR,
Well if you personally haven’t seen it then it clearly never occurs right.

Strangely for that argument though, I doubt anyone has seen many, if any Ev’s broken down on the side of the road either. I certainly haven’t. Case closed right.

“If they have run out there is a fuel station not far away and most of my colleagues always carry spare ICE fuel anyhow. I suppose your EV mates carry a can of spare electrons too, ha ha.”

And we’ve been over this point previously, where you were shredded for its ridiculousness, so I can’t believe you would repeat it again.

A. You are freely admitting that rather than managing your fuel tank, you’d prefer to carry around significant amounts of unprotected flammable and potentially explosive material in the boot of your car, creating a massive fire risk. Which for a person who bangs on about EV fires would be beyond ridiculous.

B. Basic electrical charging points are far more prevalent than petrol stations and if someone wanted to do the similar to your jerry can trick with an EV, they could do so. By fitting extra battery storage in the boot.

But only an imbecile would do so, when they can simply manage their fuel/battery levels.

@Capital Retro
“… most of my colleagues always carry spare ICE fuel anyhow …”
I actually keep an eye on my fuel guage, CR. I find it works really well and I don’t run out of fuel, but I guess that’s just my woke mindset.

I have done Canberra -Adelaide many times in 12 Hrs. With 4 kids. There’s this amazing stuff called diesel, it has a very high specific energy and energy density and takes approx 5 minutes to refuel, (although I can do the trip on a single tank). Try that in your Burn Your Dreams.

Any analysis from the Climate Council should be treated with the utmost suspicion because that organisation is not impartial and is biased by a pro EV agenda.
Today’s Financial Review contains the article “This family bought an E.V. It didn’t end well”. All about climate activist Kim O’Sullivan who bought a second hand hybrid believing he was doing his bit for the planet, but which has caused him nothing but grief since. The article describes short trips before the battery dies, loss of power and no accelerator response.
Saving the planet? EVs are still made of metal but are being dumped when their batteries expire after 8-10 years or 160-200,000km, whichever happens first. China accounts for 60% of the world’s EVs and the article reports fields in China full of dumped older model EVs. In Australia it costs up to $15,000 to swap a battery. Resale values are disproportionately low. Hybrids are described as the worst of both worlds.
Still want to get an EV? I’ll stick with my now 10 year old 1.6 turbo, which is doing fine going up and down Clyde Mtn.

@Acton
… and of course, Acton, nobody has ever bought a second hand ICE vehicle which turned out to be a lemon!

Best you read the FinRev article yourself and retain an open mind. It makes a number of points which have eluded you. , Essentially, EVs are dependent on batteries.

The essential point of the article is that all/all second hand EVs are problematical because of battery life and reliability. This means that these is a very limited second hand car market for EVs, which implies that more scarce resources have to go into the manufacture of new EVs, which defeats the whole point of transitioning into EVs either to save the planet or to provide a realistic and practical alternative to petrol cars. Keep an open mind and question the motivations and agendas of the EV lobby.

@Acton
I suggest you take your own advice, Acton. I’ve got a very open mind on EVs, as, while I realise it is an evolving technology, I know that it’s the direction car manufacturers are heading.

And I’m not naive, the motives of car manufacturers are far from altruistic, it’s an RoI because that’s where their future profits lie.

There is a lot of $$$s being expended on R & D by manufacturers to identify improvements in the energy storage space – e.g. solid-state batteries, battery-swapping technology. So, while people like you can point to specific issues now, I prefer to follow the advancements that are consistently being made in the EV space. Can you same the same for advancements in ICE vehicle manufacture – sales of which reached their peak in 2017.

As for EVs saving the planet? Even present day EVs still have a smaller whole of life carbon foot print than the equivalent ICE vehicle. Again, that’s an area where the gap will only widen, as the EV technology evolves further.

That open minded enough for you?

“I know that it’s the direction car manufacturers are heading”
They’re only heading that way because governments are mandating it – if it was really that great, the government wouldn’t have to force consumers against their will. And many manufacturers are currently scaling back development and production citing slowing demand for EVs.
“As for EVs saving the planet?” – well, not until you work out some “environmentally-friendly” way of recycling/disposing of all the old useless batteries at the end of their service life.

@Bill
Despite the pull back on EV sales, car manufacturers are still heading down that track, Bob as ICE sales peaked in 2017 … no upturn there to replace the EV downturn. The good thing is that the downturn in EV sales has started price competition.

.. and how about this for addressing batteries at the end of their EV life – https://electricvehiclehub.com.au/information-centre/can-you-recycle-your-electric-car-battery/

I have such little faith in the Climate Councils published data and reports.

They told us replacing gas ducted with electric only costs $8,000 and that was their high end price.

Real world quote was $18,000 and the installer said it wouldn’t heat the entire area as well as the gas unit so we might have to put a few extra reverse cycle units upstairs at an additional $2,750 each.

Replacement gas heater unit and installation $3,500, including removal of old unit. Can’t even claim the ACT government gas removal incentive because we still have a gas cooktop.

Capital Retro1:00 pm 22 Jan 24

Can you give me a clue on who to contact because I need to update my 20 year old ducted gas heater too.

I had my ducted gas furnace replaced a couple of years ago by Territory Gasfitters.
I was thinking of taking up the government rebate on reverse-cycle, until I found out the rebate was dependent on the installation being “DRED-enabled” (which basically means the utility provider can remotely switch it off when energy usage is high ie. when average-Joe actually wants to use the air-conditioner). I wasn’t going to fork out $15k on an air-conditioner that would be switched off when I needed it most.

I want to go to Perth, I need a new car, so I’ll buy a $60,000 Tesla to save on fuel costs, or I could buy a decent second hand car for $20,000 to do the trip. According the evangelists, I’m better off spending an extra $40,000

Your argument is ridiculous. it would not allow that anyone buy any new vehicle more expensive than ‘a decent second hand car’. People make choices in their relevant price bracket.

“People make choices in their relevant price bracket.” My point exactly. EVs are for the rich. Centrelink benefits are not going to allow you to buy one, or even lease an EV. Either will the part time salary of uni student flipping burgers. You might not like that. Also another EV Charging company bites the dust
https://www.drive.com.au/news/us-owned-electric-car-charging-network-pulls-the-plug-on-australia/

@Futureproof
Pssst, Fp – you don’t like EVs? Don’t buy one … simples!

How many people “on Centrelink benefits” or “flipping burgers” buy any new car at all, let alone the droves of large SUVs or fast / luxury cars you see in Canberra, priced anywhere in the $50k-$200k range?

Your “point exactly” is that EVs are right in the mainstream of middle class vehicle purchases. You might not like that, and apparently you don’t, yet repetition does not save your spurious case.

byline wrote, “Your “point exactly” is that EVs are right in the mainstream of middle class vehicle purchases.”

“right in the mainstream of middle class vehicle purchases” hey. If people think that, no wonder too many people are struggling with their finances. Seems middle class has moved up into the rich class bracket.

Canberra is a middle class city. Have a look at what drives around here, any form of propulsion. Even the average bicycle would be expensive to a struggling bicycle buyer.

Futureproof constantly suggests that if the poor cannot afford something then it must be for the rich. It is the fallacy of the excluded middle, a false dichotomy.

If you want to join with Futureproof’s level of non-argument you are welcome.

byline, Keep up with the Jones😄. No thanks; I prefer to remain debt free.

Did I ask you or anyone else to buy, Maya123?
No, but thanks for the attempt at diversion.

@byline
Very good point. These anti-EV types on here seem to think those of us who see them as the future, think everyone should have one.

I, for one, couldn’t think of a worse holiday than being cramped into a ‘tiny house on wheeels’, so I will never buy a caravan. It doesn’t mean I think caravans are bad and nobody should buy one.

byline, Not diverting. Trying to bring in some realism.

Sure, and what EV are you going to get for $20,000?! Probably something so old the batteries won’t hold enough charge to even get you across the Territory/State border…

2nd hand EV’s are going for about $40k these days. Prices are dropping.

pink little birdie11:06 am 12 Jan 24

We just went to Victor Harbour (1hr outside of Adelaide) this – took 2 cars – A tesla and a kia carnival. The Tesla went through Bendigo for the super chargers, while the Kia went through Hay. The difference in actual driving time was 17 minutes. Both did it in 2 days there and back. $40 super charging – (rest charging via power points at accomodation) for the tesla $600 in petrol for the Kia.
Tesla got there hours ahead mostly due to the required longer playground breaks for the kids in the kia verse adults only in the Tesla. most of the playgrounds we stopped at in the Kia had chargers nearby as well.

Capital Retro12:55 pm 12 Jan 24

If you took a large ICE people mover you would have needed only one car. Why split the family into two cars?

“rest charging via power points at accommodation”
EVs make it hard to free camp, as free camps generally don’t have anywhere to charge the car. Not power connected. Not only do EVs cost more there is now the extra expense of needing to pay for accommodation, to charge the car overnight. Free camping is common in the outback.

pink little birdie10:50 pm 13 Jan 24

The Carnival is a large people mover (8 seater) we got it specifically to take six people on this trip as our other option was to take 2 ICE cars and the 2 drivers not being able to swap out.

pink little birdie10:53 pm 13 Jan 24

ok so EV’s aren’t suitable for outback camping yet but my comment was a response to the person who said it would take 3 days to get to Adelaide in an EV…. For the larger chunk of people who holiday by staying in some form of powered accommodation they are fine.

this article lacks credibility as it focuses on only one element of the total cost of ownership of a vehicle.

I’d like to see a calculation of the total cost of ownership of equivalent petrol powered and EVs. this must include new infrastructure at the home of EVs as there is no point in just plugging them into a standard 240v power point.

do better EV advocacy groups.

A Nonny Mouse8:49 am 12 Jan 24

An ordinary power point is enough to get started with for nearly everyone’s driving patterns. Overnight on an ordinary power point adds at least 150km of range. Many people start with the portable charge cord supplied with the car in an ordinary power point and find that is enough to cover their local driving and never bother to upgrade from that. Also, the charge rate (2.3kW) tends to be a pretty good match to the spare output of home solar a lot of the time.

@Futureproof
Not only good in theory, but good in practice too, Fp.

The average distance travelled per year, according to the ABS, is 11,100 kilometres for passenger vehicles which equates to 30 km per day – i.e. well below the 150km range that overnight charging with an ordinary power point adds.

No doubt there will be those whose daily usage is much higher, but as A Nonny Mouse said it’s enough “… for nearly everyone’s driving patterns”.

Thanks for showing that A Nonny Mouse is correct, Futureproof. According to your selected site a Tesla, for example, should add 250Km of range in ten hours on a standard 240V/10A (2.4 kw) plug, much better than A Nonny Mouse suggested.

So the 1000 km trip as mentioned in the article requires only 30 hours of charging? Each way!

CaptainSpiff11:02 pm 11 Jan 24

Climate cult “analysis”. If you use less petrol you’ll pay less in petrol fees. Who would have thought.

Further analysis gems:
– The way to lower cost of living is to buy a $60000 Tesla.
– The obvious inconvenience of having to plan your trip around charge points, is somehow something you ‘should’ be doing anyway.

Pretty persuasive stuff.

@CaptainSpiff
Not everyone who has moved to an EV has bought a Tesla and the downward trend in EV pricing will continue. Also, not everyone sees it as a ‘badge of honour’ to be able to fight fatigue and drive 5 hours on the trot.

Congratulations – you’ve persuaded me. Yeah … nah!

Daniel O'CONNELL3:24 pm 11 Jan 24

This sounds a bit desperate.

What does she have a doctorate of? Hamster rearing? Just another woke lefty trying to get everyone into electric cars. Well I won’t be buying one anytime soon. Bit difficult touring through remote Australia in a Tesla or the like. Let alone towing a van. I’ll keep my landcruiser and caravan for quite a bit longer. I’m.sick to the back teeth being told to go against my beliefs. By the way the cost may be lower but the time taken would be much longer. Oh and where will you be disposing of the batteries etc once the use by date? Landfill? Along with your solar panels?

Good on you Michael M; you just keep on supporting those Saudi Arabian dictators with your dollars buying their oil. Happy driving1

I know who I will listen to and it’s not Michael!

@Michael M
“Dr Jennifer Rayner
Head of Advocacy
Jennifer is the Climate Council’s Head of Advocacy, leading policy and political engagement across all levels of Australian Government. She has worked as a Chief of Staff and senior policy adviser to leaders across the Australian and ACT parliaments, with a focus on advancing a positive climate agenda across the spectrum of government activity.
Jennifer completed her PhD in Political Science at the Australian National University and holds further degrees from Macquarie University, the University of Canberra and the University of New England. She is the author of two books focused on intergenerational inequality and the economic prospects of workers in transitioning industries – both considerations which are central to designing equitable and inclusive actions to tackle the climate crisis.”
From the Climate Council website.

I can see why you feel intimidated by Dr Rayner, Michael.

David Rowlands5:21 pm 11 Jan 24

I wonder why Michal M imagines that towing would be more difficult in an EV. As I understand it, EVs have substantial torque, as they use electric motors. These have maximum torque at their lowest speed and have no difficulty with trailers of any sort.

Capital Retro9:34 pm 11 Jan 24

Can she skin a rabbit?

I rest my case. Just saying

Well David I doubt an EV of any type can legally tow a 3 tonne caravan.

Rivian R1T. RAM Rev Bev or Chev Silverado coming to showrooms soon. Towing capacities > 4 tonnes.

“I’m sick to the back teeth being told to go against my beliefs.”
How was Santa Claus last christmas?

Byline do you still believe in Santa Clause do you? Probably why you believe electric cars are the way to go.

@Michael M
In the face of such an impressive CV, you’ve got no case to rest, MM

Impressive CV? A bureaucrat with a degree. Yeah I’m.impressed…NOT. just saying

No comment on you having a silly claim, Michael M, or that you are the are who declared they want fantasy over facts?

Michael M, you declared you prefer fantasy over facts, as we have seen through your magical disappearing act after easily being proven wrong on your blinkered claim.

By the same fantasies Michael “I’m sick to the back teeth being told to go against my beliefs” M wishes to declare a qualified researcher wrong based on his desire not to have even one of his little beliefs disturbed.

Gregg Heldon2:03 pm 11 Jan 24

What car is the average car that they are using for this “test”? Did they use a Mazda CX-5? A Skoda Octavia? A four cylinder BMW 3 series? What car? Then, I’m presuming the more fuel efficient vehicle was a hybrid but, again, which one. A Toyota Corolla hybrid? A Lexus SUV?
The actual vehicles used would then make it a realistic and credible test and not something that feels made up.

I’m sick and tired of seeing “faked up” exercises to justify these things! How about you add something to amortise the costs of the charger and panels in your house? $136 will also not only get our large 4-door sedan to Melbourne…. IT WILL GET IT BACK HOME AGAIN!

No mention of this accident in the RIOT:
https://canberradaily.com.au/serious-multi-vehicle-crash-on-monaro-highway-south-of-canberra/

I was coming back from Cooma this morning and diverted through z grade roads to get back onto the Monaro Highway. I should mention I had a Telsa Model Y behind my 4WD. There were some dodgy bits as parts of this road were a goat track (I’m not kidding).

Capital Retro1:30 pm 11 Jan 24

No mention of it anywhere else, actually. I hope there are no fatalities. Haven’t seen many police patrol cars on the Monaro Highway lately either but there are quite a few Teslas using the road almost always with driver only.

Still no mention of it CR. I guess virtue signalling stories trump a major highway being blocked both directions indefinitely

@Futureproof/Capital Retro
Never let the truth get in the way of a good old rant, eh Fp & CR?

The first published time stamp on this CT article is 12:12pm:
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/8483109/truck-crash-closes-monaro-highway-near-michelago/?cs=14225

JS, buried in a little section down the page, even below the story: Everything you need to know about Princess Mary’s coronation, and even below slain gropers story.
So a local news story covering the closure of a major highway doesn’t even get the headline. I see it is on RiotAct now though

@FutureProof
What are you on about, FP? I went to the CT site and clicked on “News and there it was – at the top next to an article about a Home Invader/Burglar:
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/

Capital Retro5:36 pm 11 Jan 24

What was it I said that was not the truth, JS?

@Capital Retro
Read your comment above posted at 1:30pm … over an hour after the report of the accident appeared on the Canberra Times website.
I’ll give you a hint:
”No mention of it anywhere else, actually …”

Capital Retro7:44 am 12 Jan 24

There wasn’t at the time I sent the post. By the way, do you keep a file on me?

@Capital Retro
Again, I direct your attention to the time of your post – 1:30pm. The time of the article? 12:12pm
Nevertheless, let’s just accept you “made a mistake” and move on.

The cost to buy an EV would buy a huge amount of petrol. For local (everyday) travel I mostly walk, cycle of catch a bus, so owning an EV would not save money with most everyday local travel. Then where are the AWDs or 4WDs like Subarus (with clearance) for the outback driving, at a similar price that I paid for my Subaru XV (which is big enough to sleep comfortably in)? Then when I travelled, needing to charge the EV overnight, would mean no more free camping. This is why I don’t have an EV. Price and lack of a suitable car.

What all the evangelists forget is the upfront cost of EVs. Sure, there are some cheaper models, but there are many people who cannot afford a new car and are forced to buy a 2nd hand vehicle for sub $10k

Aside from the prohibitive cost of purchasing an EV, I’d like to see how Dr Rayner and her elitist pals cope with the challenge of towing a caravan/camper trailer anywhere outside the tofu belt on a family holiday.

Plenty of Youtube vids of the dramatic decrease in range when towing with an EV

Capital Retro12:01 pm 11 Jan 24

“But the real bonus is that it will help Australians cut their cost of living at a time when it’s a huge pressure for them.”

Really?

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