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Epic failure at the non-smoking prison.

johnboy 17 April 2009 101

Having seen over many years the civil disobedience campaign waged by the smokers of Parliament House I’ll admit I was always intrigued by the idea of the hardened criminals of the new prison and their response to a happy clappy no-smoking regime.

The Canberra Times reports that in the few short days since the prison was opened the fire brigade has been called out 33 times responding to alarms triggered by cigarette smoke.

    An Emergency Services Authority spokesman said the Fire Brigade had responded to 33 calls to the Alexander Maconochie Centre, responding to automatic fire alarms triggered by the centre’s ultra-sensitive smoke alarm system.

We can only hope no-one’s house burns down while units are tied up telling prisoners to butt out.

UPDATED: In a masterful piece of cognitive dissonance John Hagreaves has just announced what a wonderful “hive of activity” his prison is:

    “All prisoners suitable for employment are currently engaged in work at the AMC such as cleaning, kitchen, laundry and horticultural duties. And in an Australian first, the AMC has 100% participation in vocational education and training (VET) programs,” Mr Hargreaves said.

    “Almost 80% of prisoners at AMC have already completed rehabilitation plans with case managers which stipulate their individual needs. In support, there is currently underway a comprehensive assessment for associated therapeutic programs.

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101 Responses to Epic failure at the non-smoking prison.
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farnarkler farnarkler 11:12 pm 19 Apr 09

I wonder who’s footing the bill from the fire brigade. It used to be $2k per call back in 98. Bet it’s a lot more now.

Ian Ian 12:17 pm 18 Apr 09

#98 – and they should be crappy unfiltered cigarettes from China to speed up the eradication of the criminals. And while we’re at it, feed them nothing but KFC and the like. Have them come out as fat, wheezy bastards too unfit to commit more crimes.

Another point, I wonder with all those nice stats about participation in training and rehab programs, how many actual prisoners are now in AMC? My suspicion is that there’s a fairly small number, and they would be the low risk probably more amenable to these programs types. I think its unlikely there’s any real hard cases in there yet. (after all the first prisoners were just put there so the government could claim to have met the March deadline).

BerraBoy68 BerraBoy68 8:51 am 18 Apr 09

How long till some criminal suffering from cancer takes the ACT Gov’t to court because they let him smoke in the AMC? It’s not beyond the bounds of possibility and in the current climate they’d probably be successful.

DrKarl DrKarl 2:28 am 18 Apr 09

Smoking cures crime eventually. Give them Cigarettes by the truck load the then they could claim the title corrective services.

taco taco 12:25 am 18 Apr 09

sepi said :

Rottweiler better conditions for prisoners doesn’t have to be about the human rights of the criminals. It can just be about protecting the rest of us when they get out.

Some victims may like to think of their attackers rotting in hell etc, but unfortunately after 2, 5 or 10 years, they will get out of gaol, and move back to a normal suburban street. So it would be better for everyone if they had actually calmed down and gained some skills in prison, rather than getting angrier and crazier the whole time.

Back to the dog analogy. Say you had two mad dogs that bit someone:

One gets locked up in a cage and had rocks thrown at it, and minimal food, and no human interaction, for 2 years, with the odd random beating.

The other gets sent to a secure doggie training facility. It has daily behavioural training, health assessments, exercise, fresh air and anger management type activities.

Which one would you rather live next door to, once they are let out in 2 years?

QFT (quoted for truth, for the uninitiated)

Prison should just as much be about rehabilitation as it is punishment.
Sure, not every criminal can or wants to be rehabilitated, but why break those who could?

aussielyn aussielyn 11:22 pm 17 Apr 09

Back to the topic of Smoking & Prisons
I am sure that a new ELI will work be employed on working on new smoking policy options that will apply to the AMC. As usual they will no concept of reality, it will take a long time to work out the concept of human rights and smokers rights! Meanwhile the prisoners and guards will work out the operational rules, they will live there.
Meanwhile taxpayers pay

rottweiler rottweiler 10:25 pm 17 Apr 09

Sepi to some point i agree, My agruement is that criminals in gaol live in better conditions then the some of us . I wish I could afford a gym membership, pay tv, good health and dental care or even study a course in something.

And as for the dog thing, dogs and criminals are nothing alike some would say criminals are close to them, but to answer your question i’d live next door to dog #2
and adopt #1. Sorry I’d rather adopt a beaten dog then some of the so called reformed crim’s, some can and most can’t.

And I’m not againist criminals at all just the murders, rapist, and violent affenders. I don’t believe a tiger can change their stripes.

astrojax astrojax 9:46 pm 17 Apr 09

thanks sepi, someone gets it.

and pommy b, what i was trying to show was that there are a multiplicity of reasons people might offend against the laws and not all of them indicate an entire abdication of regard for others’ human rights. in fact, very few would.

where’s aa – got modded?

sepi sepi 9:28 pm 17 Apr 09

Rottweiler better conditions for prisoners doesn’t have to be about the human rights of the criminals. It can just be about protecting the rest of us when they get out.

Some victims may like to think of their attackers rotting in hell etc, but unfortunately after 2, 5 or 10 years, they will get out of gaol, and move back to a normal suburban street. So it would be better for everyone if they had actually calmed down and gained some skills in prison, rather than getting angrier and crazier the whole time.

Back to the dog analogy. Say you had two mad dogs that bit someone:

One gets locked up in a cage and had rocks thrown at it, and minimal food, and no human interaction, for 2 years, with the odd random beating.

The other gets sent to a secure doggie training facility. It has daily behavioural training, health assessments, exercise, fresh air and anger management type activities.

Which one would you rather live next door to, once they are let out in 2 years?

monomania monomania 8:44 pm 17 Apr 09

rottweiler said :

Both sides make good points i just hope that any of you for human rights of criminals still feel the same if god forbid that you or any one close to you becomes a victim of a murder, rapist, child malestor, voilent assult, or any other serious crime.

And for the record I couldn’t care less about my lack of spelling and crap.

I suppose it’s the foam in your mouth or typing fingers that have produced not only a malestor but also a voilent assult. So it’s a good thing that you don’t regard miss-spelling as a crime. I don’t either but just couldn’t resist. Sorry.

vg vg 8:43 pm 17 Apr 09

I’ve encountered more of it than you ever will

rottweiler rottweiler 7:17 pm 17 Apr 09

Both sides make good points i just hope that any of you for human rights of criminals still feel the same if god forbid that you or any one close to you becomes a victim of a murder, rapist, child malestor, voilent assult, or any other serious crime.

And for the record I couldn’t care less about my lack of spelling and crap.

phototext phototext 7:07 pm 17 Apr 09

“Please tell me which countries in the Middle East are governed by a functioning democracy ?”

“Lebanon, Egypt, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Palestine, need I go on? “

Your ignorance regarding the Middle East is astounding aa.

There is no such country called Palestine, have you not been paying attention for the last 60 years. I guess you mean the Palestinian Territories, elections where held in 2005 and 2006 but they are hardly a showcase for democracy in action. Do some reading on Hamas and Fatah, functioning democracy does not involve armed conflict between two rival political groups.

Lebanon, they came so close, so very very sad. Syria, Iran and Hezbollah. Bastards all.

United Arab Emirates has restrictions on the right to association, the right to free speech, the right to a free press and the right to choose your own religion. The states record in regards to child labour is disgracefull, homosexuals are regularly jailed and beaten and women are so discriminated against in the workplace that it makes Iron bar Tuckey look like a feminist. You call that a functioning democracy ?

Egypt is the closest thing to a functioning democracy in your list, but only because the rest are so dismal.

Then we come to Saudi Arabia. A democratic jewel in the Middle East. The light upon the hill. Two words. Women’s Suffrage…. and then all the rest. To call Saudi Arabia a democracy….. one of the worst countries with regard to women’s human rights, you must be either very ignorant or a pig.

BerraBoy68 BerraBoy68 5:59 pm 17 Apr 09

vg said :

have you ever put anyone in prison, or had someone go to prison for something they did to you.

Good points VG. Someone is I know half way through a 2 year custodial sentence because a mate and I brought his crimes to the attention of the authorities. I know he’s being punished and I feel no remorse for helping in some small way for his being there. I also doubt he’ll re-offend on his release.

BTW: moderation sux. Been there, don’t want to go back. Don’t try and fight the white aa.

vg vg 5:24 pm 17 Apr 09

aa said :

go for it, it will just show how childish you really are. Typical dictator mentality, argue with me and you’re gone. My way or see you later. What next, you’re going to make me start every comment with “johnyboy the great”?

His site, his rules. And this is coming from a guy in moderation right now.

BTW aa, have you ever put anyone in prison, or had someone go to prison for something they did to you. You talk all about the ‘rights’ they take from people (which is a fallacy), have you been the subject of said rights violations (and copping a smack in the mouth for being gobby isn’t a rights violation).

Have you been inside a proper max security prison and seen what ‘luxury’ they enjoy?

I’m not sure of what the solution is, but I’m pretty sure eating porridge and breaking rocks isn’t it

Pommy bastard Pommy bastard 5:08 pm 17 Apr 09

I’m sorry astrojax, but I find no mitigation for criminal actions in your reply. While I agree that crims may act in a different way to us for a given stimulus, they still have the capacity for logical thought, for questioning, for ethical and moral judgement*.

To go down your road would mean that we could treat crims as like animals, and therefore in extremis, humanely put them to sleep.

*Not those mentally ill or intellectually impaired.
But what percentage of crims are we talking about here? 10%?

astrojax astrojax 5:01 pm 17 Apr 09

not necessarily pommy b – and waht i was alluding to wit the dog thing is that animals, and we are those, act in response to stimuli, depending on the behavioural aspects we encompass; so a child or a dog or a dim (illiterate, slow, mentally deficient, etc) person can also respond to a situation in a way you or i might not. which is the point about the drivers of criminal behaviour.

sometimes, it is a ‘rational’ response to a perceived situation: gov’t sucks and put me in a difficult situation, i will take from those that i perceive to have it easier than me.

no real intentions to curtail ‘human rights’ there, but other reasons… something to ponder, eh aa?

FC FC 4:21 pm 17 Apr 09

I would argue that while some criminals (drug dealers perhaps) KNOW what they are doing to be illegal, they wouldn’t necessarily believe it to me immoral.

johnboy johnboy 4:21 pm 17 Apr 09

Back on topic peter.

peterh peterh 4:19 pm 17 Apr 09

interesting thing, but why do they cut off the right hand? because then they have to use the “unclean” hand in all day to day activities. In the desert, you have two hands, and no toilet paper…

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