Gas-Fired Power Station component of Canberra Technology City to gas Canberrans

So why not put these power stations all thru residential areas then?
(genuine question)

Have you stopped to consider why it is that a gas heater is the mooted replacement for wood-fired? It’s because they put out next to no particulates, unlike wood heaters – and particulates are what this whole post was about…

The LA is already trying to phase out wood fires – they offer a 600.00 rebate to remove one and replace it with a gas heater. This rebate was introduced to combat the bad air quality in tuggeranong valley in winter, when the smoke sits in the valley.

So it is weird that they now think the same valley is a great place for a power station.

Digga,
so you are agreeing that the power station does comply with all current standards?

maybe you should be trying to get the standard changed.

You’re also using junk data and trying to use it to suport an opposing view, Digga.

Two wrongs just leaves everybody confused.

chewy14: They took unverified data sources from remote locations including the airport, Wagga Wagga, Bega etc. and pumped it through computer models with second-best geo mapping sources.

Not much effort to get the real picture. No site-specific data.

Digga,
No the report is from professional consultants paid for their time and expertise.
Are you saying they deliberately falsified results in the report? If so you are even crazier than i thought.
Why would a consultant risk their professional reputation for the small fee they would have got for that report?

If we all stopped eating meat then we wouldn’t have to worry about anything terrible happening in the world anymore.

It’s true: I saw it on a placard outside Parliament House!

chewy14: You realise that report you linked to is from the proponents’ or their advisors?

Sorry the graph was small, it came from one of the Dr’s submissions to ACTPLA (for whatever it’s worth).

Here’s a bigger version:
http://home.mysoul.com.au/dande1/aq/PM25_Monash_04_06.JPG

yoyo,
the ACT is classified as one region under NEPC and therefore only requires one monitoring station.

Deezagood,
the point is there are far more polluting things in Canberra than this power station.
Read the air quality report, and look at the levels of pollution produced compared to the standard.
http://www.actpla.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/9084/appendixk.pdf
If you really cared about air pollution in Canberra you would be lobbying the LA to ban wood fires.

I didn’t think the power station was going to be built in Monash. Perhaps you should publish the graph for Gungahlin so I can count the days until I die from the Lucus Heights nuclear reactor!

Ban the wood fires if you care about particulate pollution.

fnaah said :

This is why I love the RiotACT. 🙂 Thanks barking toad, Deano and Skid!

In the famous words of WMC: Digga, please collect your alarmist retard bumper sticker at the door, you retarded, alarmist alarmist retard.

Pretty harsh. Others have been moderated for far less…..

I wonder, is somebody a NIMBY if ‘it’ isn’t actually anywhere near their backyard? Is a Canberra resident, who doesn’t live in Tuggers but is genuinely conserned and protests about increasing the pollution level in an apparently already (wood-fire) polluted city a ‘NIMBY’? Why is it ‘selfishly arrogant’ to not want a privately-owned data centre adding to the pollution levels of Canberra?

So you are happy to discount the polution results above, but do agree that:

“an inversion layer in winter in the valley that the traps smoke.”

So a valley that is known to trap bad air has never seemed like a good candidate for a power station to me.

Digga,
Thank you for providing evidence that wood fires create pollution in Canberra during winter. Absolutely breathtaking research.
I expect that CPR will now utilise all its resources to have wood fires banned. When are the kids with gas masks going to be protesting at the local shops about this?
But back on topic, if you read the air quality study for the power station you will find that the maximum for PM10, is 2.5ug/m3.
The guideline amount is 50ug/m3.
Come back when you have another pretty graph.

And just in case you wondered, the independent 2003 report is here:
http://www.environmentcommissioner.act.gov.au/soe/2003actreport/indicators03/outdoorairquality03

It reports even more problems with air quality monitoring, but still says air quality is generally good.

Digga: We all know the data centre/power station was a monumental ACTEW-ALP debacle, but the ACT doesn’t seem to have the enrvionmental data needed to support any argument, from either side.

This is why I love the RiotACT. 🙂 Thanks barking toad, Deano and Skid!

In the famous words of WMC: Digga, please collect your alarmist retard bumper sticker at the door, you retarded, alarmist alarmist retard.

Ban all wood fired heaters

The environment commissioner has this to say about PM2.5

Data captured before March 2007 is considered suspect as work to stabilise the air conditioning in the balance room was not completed until March 2007. Part of the quality control for the PM 2.5 is that the balance room where the filters are weighed is kept within a specified range for temperature and relative humidity. It is thought that changes in the temperature and relative humidity may have affected the weights of the filter and/or its contents. Quality control testing of blank filters does not show a significant change in the filter weights between weighing sessions.

http://www.environmentcommissioner.act.gov.au/soe/2007actreport/indicators07/outdoorairquality07

Gee, the NIMBYs are getting more and more sophisticated. Still doesn’t make their selfish arrogance any more palatable or credible.

Wow, all that red on that graph must mean we’re all going to die!

Maybe if these gas turbines are so bad the ACT Govt should consider building a coal fired station in the locality instead?

Have you asked someone to analyse the dangers of all the local mobile phone towers too. After all, we all know they’ll fry your brain if you are anywhere within 1km of them!

Gee don’t sugar coat the bad news Digga, why not just say well all be rooned.

Further to the above comment at #3, the NEPM are standards derived from analysing samples in Sydney, Brisbane, Perth, and Melbourne.

All cities with nearby oceans, high humidity, and rarely experiencing dust storms.

Also, bushfire days are normally discounted for actual standards compliance, but are still reported as part of data gathering.

Your quoted scientists may not be crackpots, but you sure are.

So, you’re arguing based on data that is three years old, using an NEPM measure which EPHC.gov.au itself calls simply an advisory reporting standard (PM2.5).
Jurisdictions are required to report on PM2.5, but not do anything about it.

PM10 is still their only actual compliance standard for particles.

Also:
Their actual Ambient Air Quality Standards are here.
http://www.ephc.gov.au/taxonomy/term/23

Note that PM10 has a maximum concentration of 50 micrograms per cubic meter for particulate matter under 10 micrometers or less.
Also note that their 5 days exceeding that level are goals for jurisdictions to achieve.

More NIMBY bullshit!

Apart from using a graph that is too small to read, you are sprouting a lot of mistruth.

Firstly, gas fired power stations are not high emitters of particulates and it would have minimal impact on the level of particulate pollution in the ACT.

Secondly, if you could actually read the graph you would see that the peak periods are in winter and due primarily to the use of wood fired heating coupled with an inversion layer in winter in the valley that the traps smoke.

If you were really concerned about pollution levels you would be campaigning for the banning of wood fired heaters and their replacement with electric heating from a gas fired power station.

Well, it’s obvious Monash has too much gorebull warmening – but then, I can’t see the hockey stick in the graph.

Or is it that there are too many smokers in Monash putting those particulates into the pristine air? Or is it my roaring log fire on those cold winter nights? Or maybe the Monash kiddies should cut back on BBQ’s.

Other than that, I’m confused as to what the graph has to do with gas and data.