GDE two months early or seven years late? [With poll]

johnboy 11 August 2011 44

The hawk-like Alistair Coe has plunged upon a tweet by Simon Corbell boasting that the mid October finish date for the Gungahlin Drive Extension will be two and a half months ahead of schedule.

“It’s startling, given that ACT Labor promised to build the road for $53 million in 2001, to be completed by 2004,” Mr Coe said.

“This is a clear attempt from ACT Labor to rewrite history and lessen the negativity surrounding this iconic failure.

“Simon Corbells promise comes from the same government which opened a two lane road in 2008, despite being advised to initially build four lanes.

“This is the same government which also declared that duplication was ‘not on the books at all and any such plan would be five to ten years away’ (Canberra Times, 12/3/2008).

“In the lead-up to the 2008 election, ACT Labor announced it would finally duplicate the road at an extra cost of $86.6 million, in response to an election promise from the Canberra Liberals to duplicate it.

“The total time since ACT Labor’s first announcement of the road is 10 years and counting. The project is $150 million over the original budget and seven years late.

Gungahlin Drive Extension completion

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44 Responses to GDE two months early or seven years late? [With poll]
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m_ratt m_ratt 5:49 pm 15 Aug 11

Thoroughly Smashed said :

Perhaps you could use a different road if you don’t want your time “wasted” by this one?

And anyway, your argument could be applied to any number of roads, what makes this one special?

Unnecessarily slow speed limits waste time – of course the amount of time wasted depends on how far you travel. When I drive the GDE I generally drive the whole length from Glenloch to Gungahlin.
I assume ‘Glenloch to Glenloch’ is a typo.
That a ‘significant’ portion of traffic won’t do the whole length only revises my estimate of wasted man-hours down somewhat – it doesn’t eliminate the waste

Acknowledge that in congestion, people will be driving slower anyway.

Nothing makes this road special. If this is the most efficient route for travel, why would it be necessary to drive an alternate – that would only waste more – your point is spurious.

Thoroughly Smashed Thoroughly Smashed 10:24 am 14 Aug 11

m_ratt said :

Thoroughly Smashed said :

The difference: 80 seconds.

Meh.

80 seconds per vehicle. How many thousands of vehicles per day? How many passengers per vehicle?

80 seconds per vehicle (your estimate)
1.1 passengers per vehicle on average (my estimate)
35,000-42,000 vehicles per day. (2001 prediction for 2011/2021 – http://www.nationalcapital.gov.au/downloads/plan/gde/Traffic%20&%20Transport%20Planning%20Assessment.pdf)

That’s roughly 850 to 1000 [b]wasted[/b] man-hours (more than a man-month) each day by unnecessarily having an 80km/h limit instead of 100km/h where safe.

Hardly ‘Meh’.

On a side note: I particularly liked section 4.4.2 in the above-linked report. “The Southbound flows cannot be accommodated in 2011 within a two-lane arterial road but require a four-lane road.”

Note that 80 seconds is the difference between 80 km/hr and 100 km/hr for the entire length of the road, from Glenloch to Glenlock. A significant proportion won’t be doing that, and a significant proportion will be travelling during peak hour when it may not even be possible to do 80 km/hr on most days.

Perhaps you could use a different road if you don’t want your time “wasted” by this one?

And anyway, your argument could be applied to any number of roads, what makes this one special?

m_ratt m_ratt 4:44 pm 13 Aug 11

Thoroughly Smashed said :

The difference: 80 seconds.

Meh.

80 seconds per vehicle. How many thousands of vehicles per day? How many passengers per vehicle?

80 seconds per vehicle (your estimate)
1.1 passengers per vehicle on average (my estimate)
35,000-42,000 vehicles per day. (2001 prediction for 2011/2021 – http://www.nationalcapital.gov.au/downloads/plan/gde/Traffic%20&%20Transport%20Planning%20Assessment.pdf)

That’s roughly 850 to 1000 [b]wasted[/b] man-hours (more than a man-month) each day by unnecessarily having an 80km/h limit instead of 100km/h where safe.

Hardly ‘Meh’.

On a side note: I particularly liked section 4.4.2 in the above-linked report. “The Southbound flows cannot be accommodated in 2011 within a two-lane arterial road but require a four-lane road.”

what_the what_the 3:42 pm 13 Aug 11

qedbynature said :

My big problem with the GDE is the way it commits Canberrans to car based travel for commuting. Expanding Majura Lane is more of the same. And every time the same excuse is trotted out that alternatives like light rail are too expensive and not viable and the money goes to building and maintaining more roads. Taking people out of cars, taking cars of the roads eases the traffic congestion and reduces the need for bigger roads. In any modern large city, rail or light rail is critical to the way people can live and function.

Mate, they were doing it anyway, GDE was to reduce congestion mainly out of the one road leading out of Gunghalin. Canberra was designed for the car, and has done that succesfully. However, the downside of the layout is that it’s a terrible design for public transport.

qedbynature qedbynature 12:13 pm 13 Aug 11

GDE finished? Fantastic, more roads to carry more cars. I mean I like the bypass of Belconnen and the city when I decide to venture south and yes any idiot with half a brain would have seen the need for 4 lanes from day 1 but building more and more arterial roads to cope with the commuter traffic of cars seems so last century. Sure any investment in an alternative such as light rail looks expensive in terms of initial outlay but as we have seen constructing a decent road can take a long time and then what? What happens to the morning gridlock at the various entrances and exits?

My big problem with the GDE is the way it commits Canberrans to car based travel for commuting. Expanding Majura Lane is more of the same. And every time the same excuse is trotted out that alternatives like light rail are too expensive and not viable and the money goes to building and maintaining more roads. Taking people out of cars, taking cars of the roads eases the traffic congestion and reduces the need for bigger roads. In any modern large city, rail or light rail is critical to the way people can live and function.

Thoroughly Smashed Thoroughly Smashed 3:39 pm 12 Aug 11

Primal said :

Classified said :

The problem with leaving it at 80km/h is that we’ll have people ignoring the limit (like they do on other roads where the limit is well beloe what most drivers would choose), a few people driving a bit over, a few people doing the limit and the occasional vehicle going below the limit. This leads to lots of variation, which in turn leads to snarkiness.

I call it the Drakeford Drive conundrum. What do you do when the speed limit is 80 and every other driver around you is happily doing 90?

Change lanes at random!

Tetranitrate Tetranitrate 3:33 pm 12 Aug 11

Skidbladnir said :

damien haas said :

Tony Gill of roads ACt was ‘No’ as a result of concerns about noise by residents along the route, the limit will be 80 kmh for the majority of the GDE.

Those would be the same people who live in houses near airports or train lines because they were lowest-cost options, and then expect demand to be given equal consideration as stakeholders.
The best thing to do is treat them with the respect they deserve, not the level of respect they demand.

It’s a (relatively) new road. The back of Kaleen was just empty horse/sheep paddocks a little over 10 years ago.

tidalik tidalik 2:13 pm 12 Aug 11

Classified said :

The problem with leaving it at 80km/h is that we’ll have people ignoring the limit (like they do on other roads where the limit is well below what most drivers would choose), a few people driving a bit over, a few people doing the limit and the occasional vehicle going below the limit. This leads to lots of variation, which in turn leads to snarkiness. Of course we’ll then see plenty of enforcement, but like other roads people will get to know where they can and can’t speed, and speeds will vary even further.

Perhaps putting a sensible speed limit and having sensible enforcement would be a better solution?

But isn’t it obvious to everyone why? The 80kph speed limit is to encourage drivers to speed, so that speed cameras can be put there and raise lots of revenue off poor unsuspecting drivers. The extra revenue raised will help pay for the road, which cost more than originally planned because of that court action by the Save O’Connor Ridge group.

Geez people, keep up!

Classified Classified 2:11 pm 12 Aug 11

Primal said :

Classified said :

The problem with leaving it at 80km/h is that we’ll have people ignoring the limit (like they do on other roads where the limit is well beloe what most drivers would choose), a few people driving a bit over, a few people doing the limit and the occasional vehicle going below the limit. This leads to lots of variation, which in turn leads to snarkiness.

I call it the Drakeford Drive conundrum. What do you do when the speed limit is 80 and every other driver around you is happily doing 90?

Sounds like the Monaro Hwy heading north from Hume. 80km/h zone on a wide, straight, slightly downhill section with hundreds of metres of clear visibility in most conditions. Traffic approaches at between 85 and 105, stands on the anchors for the camera, speeds back up to 95+, slows back down to 90ish again around the bend (because sometimes the cops sit there), stand on the anchors as the stream of traffic pours out from Lanyon Drive and tries to merge while accelerating like crazy, then back up to 95 or so, then on to 105 at the 100 zone. Occasionally you see the undercover cops cars (commodore or hilux ute) nab someone.

Primal Primal 1:48 pm 12 Aug 11

Classified said :

The problem with leaving it at 80km/h is that we’ll have people ignoring the limit (like they do on other roads where the limit is well beloe what most drivers would choose), a few people driving a bit over, a few people doing the limit and the occasional vehicle going below the limit. This leads to lots of variation, which in turn leads to snarkiness.

I call it the Drakeford Drive conundrum. What do you do when the speed limit is 80 and every other driver around you is happily doing 90?

beejay76 beejay76 1:41 pm 12 Aug 11

damien haas said :

One of the questions that would have been asked of Simon Corbell if he had bothered to turn up to the GCC meeting was ‘will the speed limit on the GDE be 100 kmh when its finished?’ the response from Tony Gill of roads ACt was ‘No’ as a result of concerns about noise by residents along the route, the limit will be 80 kmh for the majority of the GDE.

It’s a damn sight faster than our current 40kph, so I’m good with it.

Although this “majority” could worry me. Does this mean it will be mostly 80, but with short and random intervals of, say, 70 or 100? I really hate that!

what_the what_the 1:34 pm 12 Aug 11

Classified said :

The problem with leaving it at 80km/h is that we’ll have people ignoring the limit (like they do on other roads where the limit is well beloe what most drivers would choose), a few people driving a bit over, a few people doing the limit and the occasional vehicle going below the limit. This leads to lots of variation, which in turn leads to snarkiness. Of course we’ll then see plenty of enforcement, but like other roads people will get to know where they can and can’t speed, and speeds will vary even further.

Perhaps putting a sensible speed limit and having sensible enforcement would be a better solution?

Not from this government! The same govt that dropped the Monaro hwy from 100kmh to 80kmh and stuck a speed camera up.

Funny thing is even now with the 60kmh zone in the completed area of Glenlock, people are travelling quite comfortably between 90-100kmh ie determining their own speed given the surroundings (ie the fact the road is complete, there are no workers etc.)

I was actually thinking they’d make it 70kmh in most zones.

Classified Classified 1:13 pm 12 Aug 11

The problem with leaving it at 80km/h is that we’ll have people ignoring the limit (like they do on other roads where the limit is well beloe what most drivers would choose), a few people driving a bit over, a few people doing the limit and the occasional vehicle going below the limit. This leads to lots of variation, which in turn leads to snarkiness. Of course we’ll then see plenty of enforcement, but like other roads people will get to know where they can and can’t speed, and speeds will vary even further.

Perhaps putting a sensible speed limit and having sensible enforcement would be a better solution?

teddyhb teddyhb 1:07 pm 12 Aug 11

KaptnKaos said :

If’ it is going to be left at 80kph, why did they waste money on the noise barriers or is that part of the “artwork” to go with the rocks in a pile and bits of metal.

Pretty sure its not a noise barrier, as far as I can tell its a barrier to stop the lights from bruce stadium blinding people driving along the road.

Skidbladnir Skidbladnir 12:46 pm 12 Aug 11

damien haas said :

Tony Gill of roads ACt was ‘No’ as a result of concerns about noise by residents along the route, the limit will be 80 kmh for the majority of the GDE.

Those would be the same people who live in houses near airports or train lines because they were lowest-cost options, and then expect demand to be given equal consideration as stakeholders.
The best thing to do is treat them with the respect they deserve, not the level of respect they demand.

chewy14 chewy14 12:25 pm 12 Aug 11

damien haas said :

One of the questions that would have been asked of Simon Corbell if he had bothered to turn up to the GCC meeting was ‘will the speed limit on the GDE be 100 kmh when its finished?’ the response from Tony Gill of roads ACt was ‘No’ as a result of concerns about noise by residents along the route, the limit will be 80 kmh for the majority of the GDE.

Did they actually say it is going to be 80km/hr?
The original design was for a 100km/hr road with a speed limit of 90km/hr. What a joke.

KaptnKaos KaptnKaos 12:04 pm 12 Aug 11

damien haas said :

One of the questions that would have been asked of Simon Corbell if he had bothered to turn up to the GCC meeting was ‘will the speed limit on the GDE be 100 kmh when its finished?’ the response from Tony Gill of roads ACt was ‘No’ as a result of concerns about noise by residents along the route, the limit will be 80 kmh for the majority of the GDE.

Just plain rude and arrogant of the stresscorb not to turn up just goes to show how much he cares about “his precious” (yes said in a lord of the rings way, suits stresscorb) community.

If’ it is going to be left at 80kph, why did they waste money on the noise barriers or is that part of the “artwork” to go with the rocks in a pile and bits of metal.

grump grump 10:44 am 12 Aug 11

“the mid October finish date for the Gungahlin Drive Extension will be two and a half months ahead of schedule.”

that would apparently be because most other urban development seems to have stopped, with resources diverted or money finished, well at least the lake Ginnenderra lighting and play areas, nothing has happened there for 3 weeks plus……

housebound housebound 9:31 am 12 Aug 11

Trouble is that Labor has been in power since 2001 in the ACT. Actions by ACT Government are pretty well now Labor actions.

Labor’s first term (2001) in government was quite ok. The problem was when they got the majority in 2004 and started misbehaving. It was a level of unaccountability that has never been pulled back. If we ever get a change of government (rolls eys), then I am quite sure that we’ll all eventually be making the same accusations against the Libs.

And please keep the feds out of it. The locals are quite capable of mistreating people and lying all on their own.

dpm dpm 9:18 am 12 Aug 11

blowers said :

Has anyone ever wondered if it was a ploy by the contracted company to keep their staff employed longer? They must have known they had the Government by the short and curlies and just slowed down construction. How many times do you have to rip up and relay the same piece of road??

I love conspiracy theories

Yep. And now that the Majura parkway gig is coming up, they magically can finish the GDE a few months early. All it took was the sniff of future ongoing work! Have to keep that ploy in mind for next time……

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