Gungahlin teenage burglary gang nicked

Whoops, the second line (above) was not meant to be in quotation italics

belray said :

Sina said :

belray said :

News for you my friend, assault is illegal – thus smacking your kids is illegal.

Not true. “Lawfull chastisement” There is obviously a limit though.

Having been through the teenage years with my children and their friends the only solace I can give is that most errant teenagers eventually turn into decent adults (with a bit of parental heartache).

Those that don’t, end up in jail.

Sina said :

belray said :

With respect, do you have teenage children? You make a good suggestion, just unworkable. I had actually considered that course of action; however, the problem still remains. If she is in a defiant mood (16yo girl) how do I get her into the car without resorting to assault or child abuse? It was far easier to quell the situation by letting her stay. She was home the next morning.

Funny how so many parents whinge about their kid’s bad behaviour and ask for help, but when they don’t like the answer they get, they come back with “you don’t have kids/teens, you don’t understand how haaaard it is!!” If it was me, my dad would have pulled me out of that house by any means necessary. As if you’re going to get charged with abuse, give me a break!

Firstly, I wasn’t whingeing about my children, nor was I asking foir help (I did ask a question though). I was attempting to demonstrate that even the best brought up, well adjusted children (which mine are) can get out of control at times, thus it is unrealistic as well as naive to blame the parents in all cases.

Secondly, never once did I say that it is haaaard, although I am familiar with the intricacies involved and the worry that is associated with parenting as I am sure you do judging by your reply. I agree that everyone has an opinion – I respect that notion. I am guessing that when your father would have dragged you out of the house, corporal punishment was tolerated by society? Times change. We can’t spruke society standards only when it suits our arguement.

Thirdly, I have smacked my children, in fact those do gooders who espouse that you can correct behaviour in ways other than smacking interest me. I must point out here that I am not an advocate of no smacking, nor am I an advocate of child abuse.

Finally, all you have to do is read this forum. It overflows with discussions about society standards, and at times what is and what isn’t legal. News for you my friend, assault is illegal – thus smacking your kids is illegal.

Thanks for your input in any case, I just love a lively debate….

damnintellectuals, really? You really think that was his/her point? Kudos to you.

Schools aren’t the moral cesspit that people want and I for one am sick to death of them being labelled so, even in jest.

It’s time PARENTS become responsible for their offpsring.

belray said :

With respect, do you have teenage children? You make a good suggestion, just unworkable. I had actually considered that course of action; however, the problem still remains. If she is in a defiant mood (16yo girl) how do I get her into the car without resorting to assault or child abuse? It was far easier to quell the situation by letting her stay. She was home the next morning.

Funny how so many parents whinge about their kid’s bad behaviour and ask for help, but when they don’t like the answer they get, they come back with “you don’t have kids/teens, you don’t understand how haaaard it is!!” If it was me, my dad would have pulled me out of that house by any means necessary. As if you’re going to get charged with abuse, give me a break!

Snarky – great contribution. Parenting is not easy; there’s no cookbook and you have to think your own way through it, hour by hour. Well done. The “contract” idea is good, but need not be written down or formal. Pocket money (or some other privilege like internet access, mobile phone, paid school excursions) can be made conditional – with regular (but not frequent/harping) reminders of the conditionality. Collecting a recalcitrant kid from an unauthorized overstay is damned hard work – the thoughts are always: “What if she refuses to come?” “Am I driven by fury/anger or parental concern?” “It’ll be easier to do nothing now and talk it over when she gets home”. But turning up on the doorstep will be sufficiently humiliating for some kids so they have a bit of a serious think. However, kids at this age can be pretty self-centred in their thinking and any re-think can just reinforce their self-image as the victim.

Nyssa, Aurelius was being facetious. Don’t they teach that at school these days?

Aurelius, schools already have enough to teach. Parents should parent and that includes teaching their off spring that anti-social behaviour is unacceptable.

Besides, most high schools don’t teach Legal Studies – that’s College curriculum apparently.

National service would be a good idea for these guys

I wonder whether these were the ones that made the Neighbourhood Watch statistics for Ngunnawal over the past few months look plain frightening.

Snarky: Sounds like you made some tough choices. Goes to show that modern parenting is a little different than days of yore. Things have gone down hill since Menzies. Good luck.

I have to say that some of the opinions that people have offered here in this thread sound like day-time tv talkshow psychology. Maybe your teenage years were boring as pooh, but I know teenagers can get up to serious mischief without their parents knowledge, no matter how good the parents are.

I live in Gunpalmerston and have not been done yet … but I work nights, so the little f*(^&*(^&s will get a surprise if they can past my ‘just figured it out” deadlock. I sleep light and can can crack an egg with one hand. (Can’t open those bloody little cartons of Rice Bubbles tho).

Battle-Kath and Snarky … spot on. I have three daughters all grown up and that kind of stuff really worked. That “I disappointed them” feeling sinks deep. But I suppose some poor kids get crap from home from a very early age so there is little or no foundation to build on. If a kid’s personal value ssytem is no-one or no-one’s property has value, well..

I am lucky enough not have been burgled yet. But according to the doomsayers my time is coming soon.

Does anyone out there who has been burgled have any suggestions on a punishment for these kids?

I think if they were ordered to speak with family members of convicted criminals spending time in prison, they might gain another perspective on how criminal actions can ultimately effect their own family.

I am also a fan of sending them into the bush, away from the luxuries of life, and let some angry retired Army sergeant yell at them for a month or so.

My son and some of his friends helped provide evidence against this little tribe.
Some of the stuff the culprits did was pretty dumb. But clearly, they knew the law well enough to have a decent understanding of the rules of evidence.
Do they teach that in high school these days?

What Nyssa said. I simply would have gone around and calmly carried her to the car. If she wants to make a complaint, let her, and she will start to see the real consequences of playing silly buggers.

belray, I would have gone to the house and collected my child.

Flat out plain and simple.

Defiant children will only do so when they ‘think’ they can get away with it.

These parents obviously don’t give a toss about their kids, especially the 12yos. They too should be locked up.

“I remember kids getting “contracts” or “Agreements” when I was in high school. Did it do a thing? absolutely not.”

My sons school tried the contract thing when he was in year 2…YEAR 2! Sorry school, but that was a f***ing joke. We hated his teachers that year & needless to say, he’s been a lot better since (with much better teachers).

Agreed on the “site down & talk to your children” approach. I know that’s what worked with me when I was a teen & I can see it working well with my own son when he hits that age (soon!). We want them to behave like young adults, so I’m sure treating them as such is a very good start.

I’m no saint Battle Kath – I smacked when necessary up to about year 4. But after that it’s really counterproductive, and it was never a pleasure to start with.

Interestingly, our daughter’s said the same thing about our talks with her – it’s the spelling out of the concerns and why, and the feeling of letting us down that REALLy hurts her. Coming from a background of a leather strap on the bum even up to about yr 8 I must say this took me by surprise. But I’m glad it works!

agreed Snarky. As a child my parents never hit my brother or I, and barely gave us punishments at all, however, what they did was sit us down and talk to us about the problem. I’m telling you, a lecture is SO much worse than a smack… you feel guilty having to discuss what you’ve done wrong, it’s being spelled out to you, and you do feel like you’ve let them down.

@ Belray

I’m in a similar situation – a 17 year old who from 15 on has been either sneaking out at night, or drinking or simply not coming home. It’s a style of behaviour neither I or Mrs Snarky did or have modelled, but comes from her peers.

We’ve been unable to stop her actions by threats of punishment, so we stepped back a bit to figure out what exactly was worrying and angering us about it, and addressing the “raw” concerns.

We eventually settled on sitting her down and explaining calmly and without trying to sound to earnest what they were:

One, that her only obligation at this stage was to complete college with the best possible marks that she could. She’s already working as a waitress, and I pointed out to her that if she wasn’t going to serious about school she should drop out immediately – at least she’ll have a slight head start to the unskilled bottom-feeder jobs that she’ll end up with without a decent school leaving result. She already knows what waitressing’s like, and I think I surprised her a bit by showing that school will actually have a very real impact on her job prospects, and that the choice to try hard or not was entirely up to her, with consequences also entirely up to her.

Two; that our biggest concern with her going out and staying out wasn’t her absence per se, but the possibilities of either physical or sexual assault, or that she might herself go along with consensual unprotected sex if she was drunk or just foolish, and the possible disease or pregnancy consequences. She has a cousin born in similar circumstances, and she knows the sort of life she and her mother led for the first 15 years. It’s not an attractive proposition. We told her that if she was going to get sexually involved we’d organise one of those subdural anti-pregnancy implants for her, but she would still have to deal with condoms for disease prevention. I think that this coming from her father at least made her listen – I know she remembers the talk because little back-handed references pop up every now and then.

Three; that our biggest concern with her drinking was not the immediate effects of the alcohol, although we’re far from blase about it, but her impairing her judgement badly enough to either drive or get in a car driven by another drunken person. We’ve even hosted parties at our place where she and her friends (all underage) can drink relatively freely, because at least we can supervise. Must say that was a very hard decision to make – we must look like p*ss-poor parents to others, but at the end of the day if she’s going to drink, well, I’d rather be there to prevent further damage. We havbe been pleasantly surprised re the dribnk driving fears – both our daughter and her friends appear to have absorbed the message, and will not let each other drink and drive.

I found that talking to her in the car was the best place to discuss important matters. It’s a private space, and we’re both captive and have to listen to each other. And, it’s non-threatening – I have my eyes on the road, as does she. It seems to make talking easier.

The idea of “contracts” for us at least was a failure – a contract only works if both sides hold to the agreement, and there few punitive actions you can successfully take with a teenager whose behaviour warrants a contract to start with. One thing I did say was while we’d rather have her acting and living in concert with the rest of the family, if all she really wanted was to treat the house as a sort of “share house” arrangement we’d go along with that too – but she’d have to do her own washing, cooking etc. I said this dispassionately, not like a threat – it really was a genuine “share house” offer – and indeed for a few night she’s missed dinner because she hasn’t told us she’d be home and I haven’t budgeted her into the meal. She seems to have decided she’d rather be “part of the family, which was the aim of the exercise.

Finally, it seems to me that the most important thing of all is to keep the lines of communication open. With teenagers I don’t think parents have any substantial influence – any impression we left was back in primary school. The teenage years pass – you’ll get your children back (as adults) in a few years – don’t burn your bridge.

Also, I’m not saying any of this is THE way to operate, only that it appears to be working for us. If you can find something in this that works for you, you’re welcome.

Good luck.

la mente torbida said :

@ belray

Teenage kids? Maybe you should discuss and agree to a contract or sorts between you and your child where terms and conditions are agreed to beforehand. Just a suggestion.

haha that’s a good one!
I remember kids getting “contracts” or “Agreements” when I was in high school. Did it do a thing? absolutely not. I’ve yet to find a kid that has respected a bit of paper, they end up scrunched in the bin.

Battle_Kath said :

Belray, although i do not have teenage children, i was the teenager in a similar situation, and my parents got straight in the car to come and collect me. I shouldnt have been there, and i sure as heck wasn’t going to just go home.

You may be surprised at how differenly children react when you’re actually there. If you feel that your child would still have defied your word, perhaps taking away something like internet usage, games consoles, tv, etc. would teach her a lesson. there is no need for force, just enforcement of punishment.

Agreed there, many parents doing know where their children are, as shown in the case of these little shts. How 12 year olds are away from their parents for long enough to take part in 50 odd burglaries is beyond me or any teenager for that matter. Simply knowing where your child is and checking on them isn’t that difficult, if they wander off and don’t let you know, you punish them! IF you know where they are and they refuse, you go and get them.

All this political correct bullsht about disciplining children is resulting in things like this story happening because parents don’t do a thing and don’t discipline at all. IF parents want to smack their kid then they should do it (and i’m not talking about beating them lifeless) obviously it’s not the only way, but anyone who sprouts the violence message is a moron.

Belray, although i do not have teenage children, i was the teenager in a similar situation, and my parents got straight in the car to come and collect me. I shouldnt have been there, and i sure as heck wasn’t going to just go home.

You may be surprised at how differenly children react when you’re actually there. If you feel that your child would still have defied your word, perhaps taking away something like internet usage, games consoles, tv, etc. would teach her a lesson. there is no need for force, just enforcement of punishment.

It’s depressing to read statement by parents where they can’t control their children, but feel that they’re good parents.

@ belray

Teenage kids? Maybe you should discuss and agree to a contract or sorts between you and your child where terms and conditions are agreed to beforehand. Just a suggestion.

Battle_Kath said :

belray… i would suggest going over there and getting her. Of course she isn’t going to come home if you’re on the other end of the phone just telling her that she should.

With respect, do you have teenage children? You make a good suggestion, just unworkable. I had actually considered that course of action; however, the problem still remains. If she is in a defiant mood (16yo girl) how do I get her into the car without resorting to assault or child abuse? It was far easier to quell the situation by letting her stay. She was home the next morning.

I guess the point is that you cannot make them do what they don’t want to do at that age – as frustrating as that is. This is where good upbringing enters the realm. Having said that, good upbringing is not the answer to all, nor can it be entirely blamed for short comings.

I have grown up in a lot harsher environments then any of these kids, but that does not give me a free ticket to vandalise and steal other people’s possessions.

You are responsible for your own actions, and you know the difference between right and wrong.

Why is it in Cambodia where I lived for three years nothing was stolen from me, yet when I move to Canberra within a week my apartment is broken into and my belongings taken from me?

This is just my opinion.

My question is, how do I correct that behaviour I’m told that Above All, Be Kind by Zoe Weil (2003) is a good book.

Unfortunately I have not read it yet, so cannot offer any further than a glowing recommendation from somebody else.

belray… i would suggest going over there and getting her. Of course she isn’t going to come home if you’re on the other end of the phone just telling her that she should.

Small potatoes compared to what goes on at Tralee. Several burnt aircraft last month and a stolen Bell chopper dumped there yesterday. Sort the lost triangle where NSW police must travel through ACT to get there.

nyssa76 said :

DMD you’re not even close….

Those ‘parents’ (and I use the term loosely) can’t control a 12yo? WTF?

Now that’s bullshit. I manage to keep my classes of 30+ students working every day and my own 3 kids aren’t criminals either. That’s over 100 kids a day, yeah it’s real hard.

It all comes down to parents setting moral guidelines and actually being parents.

Ah Canberra, the only place where juvenile offenders are offered a free ride for every offense and it’s used as an excuse when they become adult offenders….

I have multiple children. Fortunately, they are all good kids although a little big for their boots at times (who isn’t?)… There was a time when my 16yo girl refused to come home from a friends place at 10.00 pm when told to do so by me. I rang and explained that permission had not been given for a sleep over and was dutifully told that I am being difficult and she was NOT coming home.

As a result, the girl didn’t come home until the next morning. My question is, how do I correct that behaviour (we must exclude smacking, grabbing, yelling as society dosn’t tolerate that anymore – it’s too harsh apparently). It is only from their solid upbringing that my kids toe the line.

To that end, I can see how the juvenile criminals can do what they do. I can also see how in SOME cases, it cannot possibly be the parents fault. You can only do so much.

you don’t need to physically abuse children to discipline them…

The strap or cane needs to be introduced back into all schools, kids these days get away with murder and some of them have no respect for anyone let alone themselves.

A good smack on the ars at home when they need it too, deep down inside the youth of today are screaming out to be disciplined.

After doing a little search, I cant find any sentences from the ACT Childrens court. Whilst I understand that we cant release the identity of child offenders, surely the court could still release the offences and what the ruling/judgement/sentence was.

Cops did well but Courts will let us down.

I wonder if these are the kids responsible for the vandalism at Ngunnawal Children’s Centre, not once, but twice, and Burgmann?

Good on the police – it’s a difficult task to catch thieves, so many get away with it almost daily … now the courts need to do their job, and I have my doubts …

DMD, all cool, I’ve been on the receiving end of a fair amount of venom; I can’t say I don’t ask for it. CanberraResident is an idiot … nope, that still doesn’t hurt … hehe. Everybody is an individual … people should just let others be …

Also depends on how manageable the kids are. When I was a kid, some of the ratbags had perfectly good and well-off parents. They just knew how to manipulate people and sneak out if needs be.

DMD you’re not even close….

Those ‘parents’ (and I use the term loosely) can’t control a 12yo? WTF?

Now that’s bullshit. I manage to keep my classes of 30+ students working every day and my own 3 kids aren’t criminals either. That’s over 100 kids a day, yeah it’s real hard.

It all comes down to parents setting moral guidelines and actually being parents.

Ah Canberra, the only place where juvenile offenders are offered a free ride for every offense and it’s used as an excuse when they become adult offenders….

If any of them do any time at all, they’ll be released before they are 18. If the voting age gets lowered to 16, then the age of responsibility for criminal acts should follow accordingly.

Poor darlings, just misunderstood, bad upbringing, not enough hugs, too many hugs, hugs from the wrong uncle, take your pick.

Saw this one on the news last night. They’ll get a stern taking to and some community service.

They should all be locked up for eternity. Their parents should be shot. The magistrate should be hung by an angry mob.

Am I fitting in now guys or what?

I told yas, you don’t always see the work, but it’s getting done. Every now and again, some of that work gets announced to remind us all that is being done. Nice comments ant.

In alot of cases, the parents have a lot to answer for, but it is not always the parents fault. Sometimes the parents have done thier best, but the kids have fallen in with the wrong peer groups and they can quickly turn bad. Parents don’t have as many control mechanisms these days.

A group of 20 – must come from quite a few families. Wierd.

It’s good work they got the little turds, doubtless they are Working Families. Kudos to the cops that did the work and got the result. And doubtless the court will slam the cops and give the kiddies a stroking and let’s all go for ice cream, hooray!

The little darlings will spout “I’ve got a bad home life” and get away with it.

Their parents should be sterilised and slapped for having such ‘lovely’ children.

I remember a mate of mine who used to live over that way came home to see teens robbing his family’s home (using a stolen car as their transport of choice). What sort of ‘punishment’ do the runts get? A holiday in a juvie centre?