Incompetent road resealing around Canberra

Pork Hunt said :

I said it before and I’ll say it again.

When the fcuk will they do something with Wentworth Ave between Hely St and Telopea Park?

Exactly and not to mention the synchronisation of the traffic lights,however i suspect the answer is when hell freezes over!

JimCharles said :

SNIP

My god that is depressing. What the hell is happening to society when essential maintenance is botched or nonexistent? Same thing with health infrastructure and training – we’re just winging it day by day, year by year, blithely approaching the retirement of baby-boomer cohort nurses with no real plan now how on earth we’re going to replace them.

What ever happened to governments responsibly managing essential services? It’s not a partisan thing or specific to any country, the same thing is happening all over the english-speaking world, if not further abroad. Everything is just being run down with no thought for the future.

troll-sniffer said :

Love these rants based on limited knowledge (even more limited than mine in this case). Want the gubmnt to do the full replacement job rather than this method? Sure. Your rates would increase by maybe 50% per annum across the board to pay for it but I’m sure you’ll get widespread support from ratepayers. Not me though.

Troll-sniffer, I think you are the troll.

No, we don’t want the first class, bells and whistles type of road sealing. What we want is what’s available elsewhere. No, this spray down of black sticky stuff covered with tonnes of gravel which is expected to be driven into the so called tar by passing cars is just a cheap Z grade reseal. I preferred the original surface.

JC said :

dph said :

I know absolutely nothing about resealing or resurfacing roads.

Most of the time, it seems very unnecessary to me. We have by far, the best roads in the country. I don’t understand the constant need to reseal or resurface our roads.

Umm it is called maintenance and things like read resealing is what generally in good shape. Without it you would have to wait until they really deteriorate before you can justify resurfacing with hot mix. This is what happens on busier roads in Sydney but happens faster due to heavier traffic loads. Or you reseal like we do, sure for a short time the loose stones are a bugger and yes they are noisier but I would rather my rates be spent elsewhere rather than paving with gold like some want.

They started this lark in the UK about 20 years ago when the money to do the job properly started disappearing.
It’s OK resealing a surface course before it cracks, but using that method to smooth out a surface that’s already deteriorating is not a good idea. Once the sub-base is exposed and moving, the road breaks up. Then your 15 yr estimated life (which might be true here…it was about 5 years in the UK with the incredible wear and the water seepage) drops by about 2/3….so they have to repeat the exercise more and more regularly.
What happens is that the road keeps on rising until it reaches the top of the kerb, and the drains end up being far lower and more dangerous….and the road is still a pile of crap.
Meanwhile, your manageable 30yr maintenance plan condenses and gets pushed backwards until there’s far too much to do each year and you reach the state where nearly everything needs doing at once, so it’s impossible. You’ve moved budgets elsewhere and thus proved you didn’t need the money….but try going back and asking for a billion dollars in one go and see where it gets you
Then the potholes start and you end up being forced to spend a prohibitive amount on potholes, which weakens the road around it so you get more potholes. UK road contractors have successfully pushed up the price of fixing a pothole to about $600 a pop, and they still can’t keep up with the demand which is growing due to crap like tar spray and chip.
If you get potholes, your base is moving and you can only solve it by ripping the whole lot up and relaying a stable base, so the final job when they have to scrape it all off plus hundreds of extra tons of tar spray and chip becomes prohibitively expensive…..so expensive that they just cannot do it.
I watched a documentary about the state of the roads in the county of Gloucestershire. …just full of potholes and this naff surfacing. At the current rate of resurfacing roads properly, some residential roads were not due to be resurfaced for another 250 years…..so basically, it’s never going to happen. A slippery and irresponsible slope to get on if you don’t need to do it. Biting the bullet and just using good old asphalt is money well spent in the long run.

I had assumed that the windscreen replacement companies now owned the resealing companies:
Today’s flying stones and gravel are brought to you by Windscreens O’Boy 🙂

I unfortunately do the daily drive between Queanbeyan and Bungendore and am amazed at how often the new sections of roads have been re-sealed (I think at least 3 times in 12 months).
When the newest section of road opened up it lasted about 3 weeks before there were potholes and ramdom sections of road missing.

Not once after re-sealing the road to they bother to sweep it, that’s what are cars are for right???

There is nothing like the cheapest tender……….

Alderney said :

What pisses me off is the signage that goes with the work. On Hindmarsh going up Red Hill there wasn’t even an end roadwork sign, despite the roadwork obviously ending. Hence speed limit is still 60 when it should have reverted back to 80. And then, after they marked the road, the 60 speed limit sign was still being displayed along with the ‘take care no-lines’ sign. When does the roadwork cease being roadwork? When some tosser figures out the signs have been left out. Probably because they need then for another job.

Yes, I have been ignoring the 60 signs, and so have most people except for a couple of confused motorists who slow right down and then realise no one else is and there’s nothing actually going on.

You’ll be pleased to know they’ve finally taken away their 60 signs! Hindmarsh is back to normal – well, as normal as it can be in a paranoia P2P speed camera zone.

You mean, the roads ARE resealed? You mean, they LEAVE them like they are now? You’ve got to be kidding me! I drive Sulwood/Namatjira/Streeton every weekday, and most of this route was to be resealed. I thought that perhaps they had laid the gravel to hold the tar on better, or something like that, and I was waiting for the tar trucks to appear. It’s very hard to believe that they plan to leave it this way. Even in New Zealand, they do a better job than this.

(ducking….)

I said it before and I’ll say it again.

When the fcuk will they do something with Wentworth Ave between Hely St and Telopea Park?

I can remember when we drove down to Canberra from Sydney and the rough Federal Highway turned into a smooth road as soon as we crossed into the ACT. Now it’s the reverse. Driving up to the border on a rough road it becomes silky smooth as soon as you cross into NSW. How times change.

dph said :

I know absolutely nothing about resealing or resurfacing roads.

Most of the time, it seems very unnecessary to me. We have by far, the best roads in the country. I don’t understand the constant need to reseal or resurface our roads.

Umm it is called maintenance and things like read resealing is what generally in good shape. Without it you would have to wait until they really deteriorate before you can justify resurfacing with hot mix. This is what happens on busier roads in Sydney but happens faster due to heavier traffic loads. Or you reseal like we do, sure for a short time the loose stones are a bugger and yes they are noisier but I would rather my rates be spent elsewhere rather than paving with gold like some want.

Dear OP by the sound of your rant you seem to think reselling rather than resurfacing is some new cost cutting exercise. FYI this method has been used for as long as I recall index as a kid in the early 80’s I thought it was great when they did my street lots of burnouts on the old BMW bike.

What has changed is before they seemed to do larger stretches whereas now they do it more patchwork like. They also do some new roads with gravel seal never seen one without issues.

FioBla said :

Well if you don’t like it, take the bus.

Whoa!

(Runs away).

:golfclap:

p1 said :

I expect this kind of thing is always a balance between the cost of doing things promptly verses the efficiently of doing big blocks of work – BUT I would rather the balance be swung back a little the other way.

I’d rather they used a bit of intelligence and left the bloody streets alone. Our quiet little suburban street didn’t need touching, but they CrapSealed (TM) it anyway. That was a year ago, and it still looks rubbish and is continually losing bluemetal. And yes, we have had them back to sweep it (and that took a few reminders).

Deref said :

troll-sniffer said :

Want the gubmnt to do the full replacement job rather than this method?

No. Just want them to sweep the bloody stones up.

What he said. I assume that after the job is done, there needs to be a certain amount of time for the tar to cool, possibly a little more for the surface to be bedded down by passing traffic.

But then they need to promptly run a street sweeper over it, re-paint the lines, and remove the road work signage.

I expect this kind of thing is always a balance between the cost of doing things promptly verses the efficiently of doing big blocks of work – BUT I would rather the balance be swung back a little the other way.

Well if you don’t like it, take the bus.

Whoa!

(Runs away).

To answer the OP’s question, yes, you can have your damage repaired via TAMS/the contractor (not sure who actually foots the bill…I think it was the contractor in our case).

I drove along Namatjira/Sulwood a few years ago, just after it had been resealed and a storm had passed over. Every car that drove along there got spatters of thin brown sealant along all side panels. It wouldn’t come off. I contacted TAMS and they arranged for me to visit the contractor in Queanbeyan (to confirm it was genuine) then paid for the car to be detailed. We also had gravel stuck under the car which interfered with the steering, but got that fixed ourselves as the car was due for a service anyway. It was all a bit of a pain, but worth it to have the stuff cleaned off. Clearly it’s not something that TAMS advertises, but bear it in mind if your car does get damaged.

I know absolutely nothing about resealing or resurfacing roads.

Most of the time, it seems very unnecessary to me. We have by far, the best roads in the country. I don’t understand the constant need to reseal or resurface our roads.

troll-sniffer said :

Want the gubmnt to do the full replacement job rather than this method?

No. Just want them to sweep the bloody stones up.

troll-sniffer said :

Want the gubmnt to do the full replacement job rather than this method? Sure. Your rates would increase by maybe 50% per annum across the board to pay for it

…….or …….. we could do without the expensive sculptures and scrap metal left lying around the place.

Priorities??????

Apologies – “reseed” in my last post should read “resealed”

They have reseed a bunch of arterial roads in Tuggeranong and Woden lately with this method, but what gets me is that rather than do each road one at a time, taking the time to clear the excess gravel and paint some new lines, we now have a bunch of these gravel covered roads with no lines marked.

Some of these have been this way for a good two weeks now – and naturally with no lines marked; all of these roads have reduced speed limits, not that anyone pays any attention to them (and the majority don’t have an “end roadworks” sign)

Hopefully the excess gravel is cleared before they paint the lines – I recall one instance a couple of years back where they just sprayed them on the loose gravel, and once that disappeared, so did the lines, which had to be repainted. Can’t recall where that was now, unfortunately/

An excellent example of this is the NE travelling side of Gundaroo Drive between the roundabout joining Marrabei/Anthony Rolfe and the roundabout joining James Kirk/Gozzard.

It was “re-sealed” about a year ago, and then again a few months ago. It’s absolute crap, I have no idea what they are trying to acheive because each time they do it, it stays just as crappy as it was before.

More confusing though, it’s only been done on that one side of the road, twice now.

Love these rants based on limited knowledge (even more limited than mine in this case). Want the gubmnt to do the full replacement job rather than this method? Sure. Your rates would increase by maybe 50% per annum across the board to pay for it but I’m sure you’ll get widespread support from ratepayers. Not me though.

Also, (two post nutter?).

I drove the section on the Fed Hwy going out of Canberra last week. I thought they were supposed to redo that section of road. Looks no different to before they stuffed it up to me, but the speed limit is back to 100.

Has enough time for us all, ‘to forget about it’, elapsed?

I used to work on the old DMR on the Northern Beaches of Sydney why back in time.

The Canberra method of resurfacing roads would not stand up to the public outcry if it took place in Sydney; we are obviously a compliant bunch.

What pisses me off is the signage that goes with the work. On Hindmarsh going up Red Hill there wasn’t even an end roadwork sign, despite the roadwork obviously ending. Hence speed limit is still 60 when it should have reverted back to 80. And then, after they marked the road, the 60 speed limit sign was still being displayed along with the ‘take care no-lines’ sign. When does the roadwork cease being roadwork? When some tosser figures out the signs have been left out. Probably because they need then for another job.

What a cock-up roadworks in this ‘town’ are.

+1 motorcycle rider who is very much not a fan of this method – as others have said, it is compounded by the loose gravel being left long enough to be swept into piles.

Gungahlin Al said :

On the topic of cracked roads, check this nifty invention from ted.com – they use induction heating to just heat up the existing surface (albeit having used a different mix initially) to reblend and seal up any cracks that develop due to subsoil shifts. Very clever. http://www.ted.com/talks/erik_schlangen_a_self_healing_asphalt.html

Clever, innovative and with significant short and long-term benefits.

So we’ll never see it here.

couldn’t have said it all better…and yes, the roads are shocking and in cars, bikes or other the gravel is dangerous and damaging. it chips cars, flicks up at cyclists and is slippery for motor and regular cyclists.

like mentioned, after every storm there are potholes you could get lost in! terrible

not happy.

futto said :

I have been waiting for someone to mention this on RA!

As a motorcycling commuter, i have had some very close calls on the loose gravel that forms on the road while they are doing this. It is very difficult to see the mounds or gravel as the colours blend into the road. I wish they did sweep up the gravel sooner as it forms into clumps.

They have been doing many of the main arterial roads in South Canberra in the last month or so. It has been hard to avoid these streets until its too late (and you are riding on the slippery gravel).

Agreed – when riding a motorbike and you hit one of these patches of loose gravel (often hard to spot), your heart is in your mouth for a second or two.

Al, I’m glad you had this conversation with Tony Gill – he’s had his head stuck in the, um, gravel over this ever since he came here. It’s not a cost-effective way of maintaining our roads.

I was wondering how long it would take for this subject to come up. I am so surprised it wasn’t raised a week or two ago.

This type of resurfacing has been going on for years. The difference now is the lack of cleaning up of the loose gravel afterwards. TO WHOEVER THE GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE IS THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR OVERSEEING THIS WORK – GET OFF YOUR ARSE AND GET THESE ROADS CLEANED UP AFTER THE RESEALING HAS BEEN DONE. There are people out there that care about their cars. There is so much of this work going on at the moment that the option of taking a different route to avoid the mess is non existent

The section of Soward Way between Drakeford Drive and Anketell Street STILL has loose stones in the gutters, on the footpath, and therefore on the road surface itself, years after the resurfacing was done because it was never cleaned up properly.

It appears that none of the works carried out over the past month or so have had any sort of cleanup. This is the contemptuous disregard our local government demonstrates to its constituents.

I have been waiting for someone to mention this on RA!

As a motorcycling commuter, i have had some very close calls on the loose gravel that forms on the road while they are doing this. It is very difficult to see the mounds or gravel as the colours blend into the road. I wish they did sweep up the gravel sooner as it forms into clumps.

They have been doing many of the main arterial roads in South Canberra in the last month or so. It has been hard to avoid these streets until its too late (and you are riding on the slippery gravel).

There is a difference between resealing and resurfacing a road. Resealing is ideally done before any cracks appear: it is preventative maintenance. This is the “chipseal” method where hot tar and gravel are deposited on a (cleaned up) road surface. The idea is to seal any cracks that might be there, and prevent new cracks opening up for a couple of years.

A couple of decades ago there used to be a patrol going around painting tar over any big cracks: just a “spot fix” or “bandaid solution”, but it extended the life of that surface by a couple of years.

Resurfacing a road involves grinding back the top inch or so of surface and relaying a new hotmix.

Note that tar does not “dry” it simply cools. There is a huge difference 🙂

But make sure you take your complaint to Shane Rattenbury, being the minister for Territorial and Municipal Services.

My pet hate: chipseal. Ruins roads, and when they use it on suburban back streets… sheesh.
Hadf an argument with Tony Gill about this method a while back (with Katy Gallagher present). I said it doesn’t last. He said it lasts 15 years. Went on to say they can’t use anything more expensive (i.e. hotmix) because they wouldn’t have enough money to keep up with their 20-year resealing cycle.

So…who can see the logic flaw there?

And I see they are already resealing sections they did in spraypave about 5 years ago, further unravelling that argument…

On the topic of cracked roads, check this nifty invention from ted.com – they use induction heating to just heat up the existing surface (albeit having used a different mix initially) to reblend and seal up any cracks that develop due to subsoil shifts. Very clever. http://www.ted.com/talks/erik_schlangen_a_self_healing_asphalt.html

I know nothing about road resealing but it seems that they are taking shortcuts compared to the approach they take on most highways. My main gripe is the potholes that appear after every storm – I’m pretty sure there wouldn’t be so many to fix if they did the job properly in the first place! I guess you have to make sure there is always work for yourself in a few months time…