Is Civic Dying?

bryansworld said :

amarooresident3 said :

I don’t blame the Canberra Centre – it is providing a service and a comfortable venue for shopping that never used to exist in Civic. And it has actually resulted in a more diverse range of retail choices compared to Civic 15 or 20 years ago.

Who I do blame is whoever owns/used to own the buildings surrounding Garema Place and City Walk. When was the last time any of those building received any signifcant upgrade that actually improved the experience for shoppers and tenants? I can’t remember one.

The QIC owns the block that includes the Centrepoint Centre. They may have some interest in running it down….

They didn’t used to though did they? That has been a fairly recent aquisition by them. Mt point still stands – previous owners didn’t do anthing to modernise or make attactive that building (or any of the others that surround Garema Place).

bryansworld said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

bryansworld said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

bryansworld said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

bryansworld said :

Why doesn’t this Labor/Green Government have the cojones to take on the mega mall that is eating Civic?

And what, pray tell, should they do?

Last time I looked, state and territory governments had a lot of planning powers.

Okay, with the planning provisions and the trade practices act in mind, what do you suggest the ACT Government can and should do?

I am no expert on this stuff, but assume that major mall expansions that take over entire city blocks can be stopped by the Government. Not sure how the TPA relates to this.

Don’t you think it might be a little too late to stop what has been built?

I’m worried about the future.

Oh, in that case, fair point, well made.

Ryoma said :

I think many people may often only go shopping at wherever is easiest for them – and often that’s whichever shops are on the way to/from work, or the school run, or weekend sport, etc. If they come into Civic, it may be for:

(a) to watch a movie, in which case it’s likely to be when many of the small shops are closed.
(b) to go to a restaurant, which is also often at night, or
(c) to go out to a pub or a club, which is not usually combined with a shopping trip per se.

In my case it’s never. Rarely anything in Civic that I want that I can’t get elsewhere in Canberra, and much more conveniently. If there’s something unusual that I want I’ll buy it on one of my periodic trips to Melbourne, where I’ll have a bigger variety to choose from and, possibly, a better price.

Brandi said :

I’m keen to rent an on-street shopfront in Civic for my business. But I have a hard time supressing my laughter when the leasing agent tells me the rent per square metre on a ragtag stripped-out hole in the wall is three times as high as a luxury penthouse.

Penthouse:
http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/act/rent-residential/1507-19-marcus-clarke-street-city-canberra/1316795522011

Catbox:
http://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-retail-act-canberra-5817974

I see what you mean Brandi, with the Catbox on http://www.realcommercial.com.au. We’re also interested in buying or renting a shopfront in Canberra. I’ve been keeping an eye on the properties on http://www.allhomes.com.au and http://www.homes247.com.au, and we’ve noticed increase in commercial properties across the whole of Canberra, not just the Civic area. We’re hoping the commercial rental prices will come down to something that’s more reasonable.

Vonbare said :

maybe we need Renew Civic program, like the supremely effective program that has been run in Newcastle
http://renewnewcastle.org/about

I’m not sure this would fix vacant shops in pedestrian malls. The pedestrian mall in Newcastle looked pretty vacant over the weekend.

amarooresident3 said :

I don’t blame the Canberra Centre – it is providing a service and a comfortable venue for shopping that never used to exist in Civic. And it has actually resulted in a more diverse range of retail choices compared to Civic 15 or 20 years ago.

Who I do blame is whoever owns/used to own the buildings surrounding Garema Place and City Walk. When was the last time any of those building received any signifcant upgrade that actually improved the experience for shoppers and tenants? I can’t remember one.

The QIC owns the block that includes the Centrepoint Centre. They may have some interest in running it down….

colourful sydney racing identity said :

bryansworld said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

bryansworld said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

bryansworld said :

Why doesn’t this Labor/Green Government have the cojones to take on the mega mall that is eating Civic?

And what, pray tell, should they do?

Last time I looked, state and territory governments had a lot of planning powers.

Okay, with the planning provisions and the trade practices act in mind, what do you suggest the ACT Government can and should do?

I am no expert on this stuff, but assume that major mall expansions that take over entire city blocks can be stopped by the Government. Not sure how the TPA relates to this.

Don’t you think it might be a little too late to stop what has been built?

I’m worried about the future.

bryansworld said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

bryansworld said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

bryansworld said :

Why doesn’t this Labor/Green Government have the cojones to take on the mega mall that is eating Civic?

And what, pray tell, should they do?

Last time I looked, state and territory governments had a lot of planning powers.

Okay, with the planning provisions and the trade practices act in mind, what do you suggest the ACT Government can and should do?

I am no expert on this stuff, but assume that major mall expansions that take over entire city blocks can be stopped by the Government. Not sure how the TPA relates to this.

Don’t you think it might be a little too late to stop what has been built?

I don’t blame the Canberra Centre – it is providing a service and a comfortable venue for shopping that never used to exist in Civic. And it has actually resulted in a more diverse range of retail choices compared to Civic 15 or 20 years ago.

Who I do blame is whoever owns/used to own the buildings surrounding Garema Place and City Walk. When was the last time any of those building received any signifcant upgrade that actually improved the experience for shoppers and tenants? I can’t remember one.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

bryansworld said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

bryansworld said :

Why doesn’t this Labor/Green Government have the cojones to take on the mega mall that is eating Civic?

And what, pray tell, should they do?

Last time I looked, state and territory governments had a lot of planning powers.

Okay, with the planning provisions and the trade practices act in mind, what do you suggest the ACT Government can and should do?

I am no expert on this stuff, but assume that major mall expansions that take over entire city blocks can be stopped by the Government. Not sure how the TPA relates to this.

Could be the fact that during winter we don’t like to wander around outside as well – with spring and summer you’ll probably notice more people taking in the beatiful weather.

maybe we need Renew Civic program, like the supremely effective program that has been run in Newcastle
http://renewnewcastle.org/about

I think there’s a few big isues tied in together here.

1) QIC, like many other shopping malls, does indeed suck the life out of other areas of Civic. I hope it doesn’t expand too much more, as in my view, it’s as bland and boring as any Westfield.

Having said that, though, I think this might all be part of a larger economic shift. Civic was “planned”, and it worked OK back in the days when people would shop less often, and there was nothing much else in the suburbs. But now that each of the Town centres have a shopping centre, as well as other suburbs having restaurants, supermarkets, etc, it’s not the only “destination” any more. It would be interesting to find out how many people living in Canberra actually visit Civic proactively, as opposed to the numbers who worked there.

I think many people may often only go shopping at wherever is easiest for them – and often that’s whichever shops are on the way to/from work, or the school run, or weekend sport, etc. If they come into Civic, it may be for:

(a) to watch a movie, in which case it’s likely to be when many of the small shops are closed.
(b) to go to a restaurant, which is also often at night, or
(c) to go out to a pub or a club, which is not usually combined with a shopping trip per se.

More office towers is part of the solution, but I really think that Civic probably needs a lot more by way of apartments, and possibly an attractive park of a decent size. Yes, I know Glebe Park is both of those things, but it is peripheral. Even a high school or University campus actually in the city, as opposed to off to its side, would be helpful. ANU is too far away for Civic to benefit from its foot traffic.

2) My second point is actually about foot traffic. Just because there are heaps of people walking past does not mean they have either the inclination or the money to buy. If three quarters of the people walking past are not the target market, then naturally any retailer (small or large) will fail.

3) Many of the small retailers seem to have little idea about how to sell. One shop in the Bailey arcade sells shoes, and often the shoes are on special for around $60. This is a reasonable price, but I can’t see any benefits from buying from that shop. What are the (Italian?) brands listed up on the wall – and if I haven’t heard of them, why would I buy them? What is special about these shoes that will make me feel (a) really well dressed, (b) trendy and up-to-date, or (c) like I have found something special?

By contrast, one of the homewares stores in Civic updates their window display almost weekly. I enjoy seeing the different colours, and am curious about what’s on sale inside. Why? Because they make an effort to catch my attention.

4) I wonder if there’s a whole generation who buy almost nothing in Civic, partially due to on-line shopping? For me, recent shopping has looked like this;

– appliances and furniture (looked on-line, then bought them in Fyshwick)
– fresh food (Farmer’s markets)
– groceries (CostCo, and suburban supermarket)
– music (online)
– books (occasionally visit Civic Library, looking to buy an E-reader so that will soon be on-line too)
– clothing (on annual trips overseas, back to Mrs Ryoma’s homeland. Ditto for eyewear and dentistry).
– foreign exchange at a Civic branch
– visited pubs and restaurants in Civic

If I’m typical, and I’m not buying much on-line as yet, then does it simply mean that Civic (outside the Canberra Centre) is really now just a place where office workers buy food during work hours, and serves as a drinking/eating/brawling precinct after dark?

The online thing goes a lot further, though. I really dislike shopping centres, and I wonder if they (like department stores) have passed their use-by dates too? If, say, in 5 years time, we can get much of what we wish to buy delivered to our front doors, who would bother with the hassle of parking and road rage in a car park?

I appreciate that there is a social aspect to shopping, and that there may be a gender difference on that front, but can the Westfields of this world continue to charge massive rents if the only remaining physical stores are women’s fashion and the food court?

bryansworld said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

bryansworld said :

Why doesn’t this Labor/Green Government have the cojones to take on the mega mall that is eating Civic?

And what, pray tell, should they do?

Last time I looked, state and territory governments had a lot of planning powers.

Okay, with the planning provisions and the trade practices act in mind, what do you suggest the ACT Government can and should do?

bryansworld said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

bryansworld said :

Why doesn’t this Labor/Green Government have the cojones to take on the mega mall that is eating Civic?

And what, pray tell, should they do?

Last time I looked, state and territory governments had a lot of planning powers.

Ignore CSRI. He just swoops in with stupid questions, in defence of the Labor government any time somebody questions their actions (or lack thereof).

Androyd said :

Don’t quite understand the major issue with chuggers. Try a polite “no thanks” or just ignore them. How hard is that?

The other day I did exactly that, walked past them and ignored them. Turned around as we passed them and some guy was handing over a $50 note. I have a problem with profiting from collecting in the name of needy charities. If you want to make $100 off the heart foundation, you can either collect $200 from members of the public, or you can steal the heart foundation collection tin on the checkout at woolies. Both actions are equally as low, in my books.

Civic, Woden, Tuggers…. they are all going down the drain because of the shopping centres (so called) management. Individual small businesses have no place in these centres anymore which is a reflection on the amount of support they get from the govt to pressure the centre management – none.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

bryansworld said :

Why doesn’t this Labor/Green Government have the cojones to take on the mega mall that is eating Civic?

And what, pray tell, should they do?

Last time I looked, state and territory governments had a lot of planning powers.

Androyd said :

Don’t quite understand the major issue with chuggers. Try a polite “no thanks” or just ignore them. How hard is that?

Have you tried stopping them, they are relentless. They don’t understand “No”

Is there a ‘master plan’ for Civic?

There was some stuff done a couple of years ago to try and join up the east and west of Civic by putting the traffic under City Hill but what is the Govt’s plan for the centre of our city? Apart from trying (and failing) to sell carparks and turn them into hotels…

Androyd said :

Don’t quite understand the major issue with chuggers. Try a polite “no thanks” or just ignore them. How hard is that?

Couple of issues
– they are paid hourly, and get commission on any sales. IMO its quite misleading to represent a charity, when its highly likely little of it will actually make it to the charity.
– It brings down the general opinion of charity collectors, so when unpaid volunteers like myself go out, we get treated like scum because people think we’re making money.
– they’re trained in sales tactics and psychology to initiate contact and get money out of people.
– A lot of them do flirt, show cleavage etc to get sales, which i dont think is appropriate for a charity.
– Its been mentioned on previous threads that some do get aggressive if you tell them no.
– they loiter in areas like Garema place and city walk, which many people will avoid so they don’t get harassed.
– If you have a chugger outside your store, people will walk to the other side of the path to get around = loss of foot traffic = loss of sales

Don’t quite understand the major issue with chuggers. Try a polite “no thanks” or just ignore them. How hard is that?

I did a fair bit of valuation work in Adelaide and I can tell you that they are typically a 1/4 of what you would pay in Civic. Even at that level Adelaide retailers find it tough to make a dollar, so I’m not surprised that shops are closing down here.

To rent in a shopping centre like CC, you have to have a guaranteed turnover of a certain amount, that’s why you will see mainly over priced chain stores in them. Plus the bigger shops (anchor tenants in RE speak) pay a smaller amount of rent to attract shoppers in the centre and the smaller franchised shops effectively subsidise the gap. The only independent stores you will see are ones that earn enough to guarantee their turnover (I.e. the $6,000 ring in McGlades is really worth $2000 + an additional $4,000 to cover the centre costs.)

qedbynature said :

A moments reflection and I have decided the Carbon Tax is killing civic…

Maybe you should blockade civic with your Tonka truck.

A moments reflection and I have decided the Carbon Tax is killing civic…

dungfungus said :

These empty shops are another “Convoy of No Confidence” by showing how risky it is to run a small business when the country is run by big government, big business and big unions.

Haha.

The Mineshaft isn’t a franchise either.

It looks to me as if the whole of what used to be Monaro Mall is in danger of being demolished and rebuilt. DJs and Myer are pretty mangy these days and the food court at midday is about 1/3 full. As for Garema, it’s either beggars or magpies. The gov’t should have a look at other cities around the World and get a few ideas of how Civic should look.

powerpuffpete said :

I heard that QIC ramped up the rent to force outdoor shop owners to move into the mall (where I guess rent is cheaper?) or move on.

I have also heard that the open air car park (the one close to Braddon) is getting turned into yet another monstrous mall-like building. And there will be another enclosed overpass to it. That way people will never have to leave the mall or be mistaken into thinking that Civic is Canberra’s “city”.

Indeed, there’s an application in with ACTPLA at the moment, I’ve seen the signs around the Canberra Centre in the last few days. The plan is for multiple towers up to 14 storeys high, including space for eleven storeys of office space and 300 residential units. Yay, just what Canberra needs, more empty office space :-/

Have a look at the plan at http://www.actpla.act.gov.au/topics/your_say/comment/pubnote

Personally, I think it looks monstrous.

I heard that QIC ramped up the rent to force outdoor shop owners to move into the mall (where I guess rent is cheaper?) or move on.

I have also heard that the open air car park (the one close to Braddon) is getting turned into yet another monstrous mall-like building. And there will be another enclosed overpass to it. That way people will never have to leave the mall or be mistaken into thinking that Civic is Canberra’s “city”.

QIC seem more concerned about making the monies than about solidifying a long-term positive reputation. What a legacy they will leave. It would have been preferable to see a revitalising of the outdoor shops: perhaps smaller shop-fronts which small business owners could lease.

Hopefully Lonsdale St will satisfy the need for boutique over franchise.

It’s not just a Canberra thing, there is a huge Westfield in the Sydney CBD now and Pitt street has rents higher than Rodeo drive apparently.

johnboy said :

Ben_Dover said :

So what is the difference between a shop in a mall, and a shop on the street?

Malls only take franchises?

Not exclusively. I’m pretty sure McGlades Jewellers is independent.

johnboy said :

Ben_Dover said :

So what is the difference between a shop in a mall, and a shop on the street?

Malls only take franchises?

I didn’t know that! Thanks.

Laughable how many people are blaming QIC and the Canberra Centre for the declines elsewhere in Civic.

Ask yourself, how nice is the rest of Civic?

QIC are the only people investing in the place, and frankly t’s second rate compared to interstate shopping malls despite that. But when you look at the ratty state of the rest of Civic, no wonder people aren’t venturing out there and the CC is benefiting. It’s still better than the alternatives.

Time to bulldoze large swathes of Civic and start over, on a scale much like the Kinston Foreshore.
Much of the Garema Place and Petrie Plaza area should just be done in.

dungfungus said :

These empty shops are another “Convoy of No Confidence” by showing how risky it is to run a small business when the country is run by big government, big business and big unions.
And who wants to go anywhere near Civic? It smells of vomit, urine and stale beer.

I see you’ve read “Before the Morning”

johnboy said :

Ben_Dover said :

So what is the difference between a shop in a mall, and a shop on the street?

Malls only take franchises?

That’s a big part of it. And if you have ever sat down in front of a cms-thick big mall’s standard lease agreement, you’ll have an insight into why. As a sole operator, the decision whether to proceed or not is about as scary as you could ever imagine and the stuff of many sleepless nights. I was close to starting a computer gaming business in Maroochydore’s Sunshine Plaza back in 95 (?) but blinked. Never regretted it though.

Everything in those leases is stacked against you. You have to spend at least $X0,000 kitting out the design (I think it was 30K then but a bit vague on it), they can make you move whenever they like, and you have to shell it all out again – your cost. If they don’t move you, you still have to do a total refit every x years – your cost. They won’t guarantee not to bring in a competitor or even to maintain one at a certain distance. If you make more than projected they get to keep a big chunk of it, AND bump the base rent up. If you don’t make enough they can still bump up the rent – or boot you out. If there’s a recession, they still get to bump up the rent. Even relatively optimistic business plan projections, given the very low initial margins, barely paid the rent. That’s why it is all clothing and food – big markups.

What I’m getting at is make an effort to patronise the little guys. Because all of the above costs – a lot. And ultimately you pay for it – usually in service received.

It’s all part of the cycle. Urban areas renew over periods of time, Civic is going through that also. Look at all the new stuff planned for Braddon, for example. Give it some time, it will get busy again, as economic times change and population continues to grow.

Ben_Dover said :

So what is the difference between a shop in a mall, and a shop on the street?

Malls only take franchises?

These empty shops are another “Convoy of No Confidence” by showing how risky it is to run a small business when the country is run by big government, big business and big unions.
And who wants to go anywhere near Civic? It smells of vomit, urine and stale beer.

So what is the difference between a shop in a mall, and a shop on the street?

johnboy said :

Shifting all the parking into the Canberra Centre doesn’t help.

That’s the thing. Now you have to drive into those big high rise parking areas, and they funnel you into the mall. Getting out of the mall and heading into Petrie or City Walk requires some motivation, like you’re there to visit a shop in the Bailey Arcade for instance.

The mall is like a giant rampart, blocking people from the rest of civic.

The owners of the older buildings need to drop the rent right down, get shops and eateries etc back into those shopfronts, and get the energy back.

I loathe that mall, I seldom go to Civic for that reason… it’s just such a pain to go in and park, then get through the mall to go where you want to.

nsn said :

Of course, Centrepoint has also been owned by QIC for some years now, as are some of the neighbouring buildings with empty shops.

Yep, meaning that rather than “Is Civic dying?” it should say “Is Civic being killed?”

As in, deliberately run down to prep it for redevelopment.

I’d love to run a business out of the old Bardelis Cafe. Beautiful location. It just went downhill ever since Con sold it. Probably right about unrealistic asking prices though. Small city landholders with big city delusions…

bryansworld said :

Why doesn’t this Labor/Green Government have the cojones to take on the mega mall that is eating Civic?

And what, pray tell, should they do?

Why doesn’t this Labor/Green Government have the cojones to take on the mega mall that is eating Civic? Very sad. The national capital’s CBD one huge shopping mall. Boohoo.

Sigh it is a shame. I would much walk around in the open than step inside Logan’s Run but I guess you can’t win them all.

Brandi said :

I’m keen to rent an on-street shopfront in Civic for my business. But I have a hard time supressing my laughter when the leasing agent tells me the rent per square metre on a ragtag stripped-out hole in the wall is three times as high as a luxury penthouse.

Penthouse:
http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/act/rent-residential/1507-19-marcus-clarke-street-city-canberra/1316795522011

Catbox:
http://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-retail-act-canberra-5817974

Depending on what sort of business you want to open, maybe you can run it in the penthouse? But if your customers pay by credit card, check if the card belongs to a Union….

johnboy said :

But the absence of chuggers is for mine the big plus of QIC.

I still find I have to plan how I am going to get around the CC to avoid the gauntlet of Big Issue sellers, children torturing us with their poorly played instruments, those kiosk stores wanting to buy your gold/get you to sample their mineral face washes/donate to the Paralympics and charity people (chugger or otherwise) who stand at the crossings!

I know I would shop around Garema Pl and Petrie Plaza more if they were selling things I need… but as I don’t need to wear suits and cufflinks to work, only need so many clocks and can only eat so much food, my need to shop at any of those outlets is limited.

I think it would be great if there were more clusters of cafes – so putting one back where the Starbucks (vom!) was and maybe underneath Centrepoint (Red Herring doesn’t count!) would be good, or even further down City Walk – and cafes that are open on weekends.

I was also of the understanding that those shops were being priced out of the market so that eventually Centrpoint and those buildings would be knocked down and the Canberra Centre monster would continue to spread it’s beige and uninspiring tentacles through the city. Not sure of the truth in that though.

I’m keen to rent an on-street shopfront in Civic for my business. But I have a hard time supressing my laughter when the leasing agent tells me the rent per square metre on a ragtag stripped-out hole in the wall is three times as high as a luxury penthouse.

Penthouse:
http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/act/rent-residential/1507-19-marcus-clarke-street-city-canberra/1316795522011

Catbox:
http://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-retail-act-canberra-5817974

Civic has been dying a slow death for a while, which is quite sad in some ways. I’m sure it’s not necessarily something confined to Canberra, though.

Yep, we can expect more daylight robberies there, it will soon turn into a no-go zone.

pretty sure I read somewhere that QIC now owns Centrepoint?

I know they are very quietly buying up as much real estate as they can and either offering ridiculous rents to tenants to get them to move or just simply not renewing the leases.

Its a joke and the Government needs to grow some balls.

At least get the vendors to validate our parking if we are forced to shop at the canberra centre!

Of course, Centrepoint has also been owned by QIC for some years now, as are some of the neighbouring buildings with empty shops.

i reckon that place with the JB hifi sign has been closed for at least 5 years.

– high rent
– CC monopoly
– economic downturn.

I’m not sure it’s just the asking price that is driving businesses into the welcoming arms of the QIC. Any retail business needs punters and the Canberra Centre has a ready made supply of them either getting off the conveniently located ACTION bus stop or out of their comfy underground carparks.

The oversupply of retail options in Canberra is well known and a feature of our enlightened planned city but it seems a shame to see the variety of small mixed business that populate the outdoor Civic streets slowly dwindle and be replaced by empty facades. If things continue at this rate, the Canberra Centre really will be the mall that ate the city.

johnboy said :

But the absence of chuggers is for mine the big plus of QIC.

I’d say that’s a big plus for the CC.

But the big question is of course why would you risk placing a shop in a location which the vast majority of people who walk past have no interest in actually buying anything, vs placing a shop in a place like the Canberra Centre where the vast majority who walk past actually intend on parting with money at some point.

If your going to go to the trouble of running a store, you might as well place it in a good location, right now that good location is the CC, as evidenced by the number of larger stores (Dick Smith and JB HiFi spring to mind) which closed down outside shops (in already relatively good locations) to move into the CC.

I note in your photos, a distinct lack of people. Maybe its because what used to be a nice open city area, which Canberrans grew up with, has now been turned into more like Sydney or Melbourne CBD.

enrique said :

Even though there are For Lease signs up, it looks like nobody is interested. Maybe the asking price is too high?

This is a problem for shopping centres. If you have a centre with 1000 square metres for lease at $10 each, you have an asset that brings in $10,000. If you reduce that rent price to $5, your asset is only worth $5,000 and suddenly your entire value starts to decrease. It looks better on paper, to have have 90% occupancy at $10 than to have 100% occupancy at $5, even though it gives the impression to customers that with 10% unleased, the tumbleweeds wont be far behind.

It’s sad walking around the city these days. Im still getting over the fact that a store completely dedicated to football jerseys has opened in the interchange. Would have been a decent size pub if someone had taken a chance.

Shifting all the parking into the Canberra Centre doesn’t help.

But the absence of chuggers is for mine the big plus of QIC.

Even though there are For Lease signs up, it looks like nobody is interested. Maybe the asking price is too high?

Is there any relationship between the owners/managers of Centrepoint and QIC?

Part of a long term trend I’m afraid. Civic has been infected with QICitis, a slowly spreading scourge of failed businesses that have been out-competed by the cosseted chosen ones in the Canberra Centre. One should feel outrage and a tinge of sadness that the open air model is proving less resilient than hoped, but… ’tis the will of the people who have spoken with their feet. (Admittedly like a bunch of dumb sheep as they pile out of the Kias and Commodores in the safety of the covered carparks and on into the safety, security and air-conditioned commfort of the Canberra Centre).

The sad fact is that for every one of us who ventures into the fresh air, sunshine and variety of the independent shops outside the CC, there are ten or so who find the CC to be right up their bogan alley.