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Long Shot – anyone see an accident southbound on Yamba Dr/Erindale Drive Thurs 11 Jun at approx 17:50

kieran AP 17 June 2009 48

Basic details:
I was travelling southbound on Yamba/Erindale Dr in the left hand lane at approx 5.50pm Thurs 11 Jun 09 . A rear ender had occurred in the left hand lane about 5 cars in front of me so the left lane was blocked. The accident occurred approx 100m up from the Sulwood Drive turn off.

I waited until all the cars behind me had gone past and the right hand lane was clear. I then pulled out into the right hand lane. As there were the other cars in front of me merging from the left to right hand lane, I was left almost stationery in the right hand lane.

Just as the cars in front of me moved off I was rear ended. I didn’t hear the sound of brakes or anything, just a massive bang and my car was pushed approx 15 metres down the road and onto the median strip. I reported the accident to police on my mobile and then, as the lady who was driving was shaking badly and told me her mobile was not working so couldn’t get someone to come and get her, I took her home. (I have since received advice that I should have taken her straight to Hospital/Police station for blood tests rather than home!)

Went in the next morning to the police and filled out the accidnt report etc and continued on with getting my car (which I have just found out has been assessed as a write off) replaced.

That process is painful enough, but this morning I receive a letter from the other insurance company indicating I am at fault ???? as they allege I merged into the right hand lane in front of the other car, despite the accident being a pure rear ender???.

SO my question to the great unwashed of Canberra via RA is …did anyone see a silver Astra rear end a bronze mazda 3 hatch in the right hand lane of Yamba/Erindale Dr last Thursday night around 5.50pm. I know a guy in a white landcruiser or similar stopped to help push the lady’s car off the road but I was too preoccupied to get his details or rego.

Thanks,

Kieran AP
(Mob: 0419 267792)


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48 Responses to Long Shot – anyone see an accident southbound on Yamba Dr/Erindale Drive Thurs 11 Jun at approx 17:50
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Very Busy Very Busy 1:47 pm 18 Jun 09

Very Busy said :

Shouldnt that be the 3 second rule?

Yes, the 3 second rule is a more recent change (in the last decade or so, I can’t be bothered looking it up). Nearly everyone who knows this rule still uses it as 2 seconds because 3 is a little over the top.

At 80kmh the 3 second rule provides a gap between cars of 66 metres (about 16 average car lengths).
At 60 kmh the 3 second rule provides a gap between cars of 50 metres (about 12 average car lengths).

At 80kmh the 2 second rule provides a gap between cars of 44 metres (about 11 average car lengths).
At 60 kmh the 2 second rule provides a gap between cars of 33 metres (about 8 average car lengths).

RatsNest RatsNest 1:28 pm 18 Jun 09

Very Busy said :

And, yes I am aware that if you use the 2 second rule in Canberra someone will change lanes into the gap infront of you. That is just something you need to work with!!!!!

Shouldnt that be the 3 second rule?

See RTA website
“Question 9
Which of the following statements about safe following distances is true?
a) The 3-second rule applies only in good conditions
b) Traveling closer than 3-seconds applies only if you have good reflexes
c) Only Provisional drivers should use the 3-second rule
d) The 3-second rule should be used at all times”

SheepGroper SheepGroper 1:17 pm 18 Jun 09

ant said :

Do people really think it’s wrong to slow down when passing an crash?

I slow down if the crash is nearby – and keep a sharp lookout around as well. I drove through a fresh crash in the dark on Hindmarsh one evening, near the marker for a previous crash, going downhill toward Woden Town Centre. The damaged cars were on both sides of the road, in the cycle lane and in the fast lane. Not only did the motorcyclist driving down the cycle path decide to suddenly cut across in front of me without indicating as he realised a car was blocking his private short cut, but someone from one of the cars on the grass decided they had to cross the road then and there and didn’t bother looking.

Slowing down if the crash is on the other side of the road and there’s no one likely to wander into my path seems like interfering with the flow of traffic for no good reason.

dvaey dvaey 1:04 pm 18 Jun 09

I was in a similar situation once. Car in front slammed on brakes hard coming downhill, I was in a much larger heavier car and couldnt stop in time. I ran up the back of other car about 5km/hr. There was very minor damage but the other driver decided to lodge claims for sore neck, etc through the lawyers. The police report clearly stated what happened but my insurance company refused to pay up claiming the other driver was at fault, even after having seen the police report. They required a stat dec from me before theyd even look at his claim.

p1 p1 1:01 pm 18 Jun 09

You should be using the 2 second rule and if the car infront of you isn’t using the 2 second rule you should anticipate the possibility of a sudden stop.

This is a pretty important point. There is a big difference between being a bit close behind a car when you are the only two on the road, and being at the back end of a chain of six cars which are all too close.

Of course if there is only one car in front of you, and you are tailgating them, you’ll look like a bit of a tool.

Very Busy Very Busy 12:56 pm 18 Jun 09

screaming banshee said :

But there is a significant difference between someone e-braking and giving no signs that they are about to slow down then coming to a near dead stop courtesy of the car in front absorbing all their energy.

Think about that next time you are driving along in traffic at 80 clicks, if the car in front came to a DEAD stop, would you be able to stop in time.

I disagree, It all comes down to anticipation, a basic skill which, when ignored results in these sorts of accidents.

If a car infront of you comes to a “DEAD stop”, you should be anticipating the unexpected and making allowances accordingly. This is basic stuff. You should be using the 2 second rule and if the car infront of you isn’t using the 2 second rule you should anticipate the possibility of a sudden stop. If you can’t see ahead of the vehicle infront of you, you should be making allowances for that.

And, yes I am aware that if you use the 2 second rule in Canberra someone will change lanes into the gap infront of you. That is just something you need to work with!!!!!

In this case the driver of the Astra should have anticipated as she looked ahead seeing cars trying to change to the right lane. She should have anticipated that a car might change lanes infront of her. Even if the accident ISN’T legally her fault, she (more than likely) could have anticipated what was going to happen.

screaming banshee screaming banshee 10:40 am 18 Jun 09

joannac said :

screaming banshee said :

I don’t think thats right. You are required to follow at a safe distance however if you are following at a distance you a reasonable person would consider safe then all of a sudden the 4wd you couldn’t see around in front comes to a dead stop because they weren’t watching the traffic ahead of them your safe distance all of a sudden doesn’t cut the mustard….not your fault.

No way. Pretty sure the onus is on you to keep a safe distance.

I’ve done this before: person in front came to a dead stop suddenly, I slammed on my brakes and stopped, person behind me didn’t and slammed into me. He paid for my car repairs.

If you can’t stop in time, then it’s not a safe distance.

I whole-heartedly agree that if someone emergency brakes in front of you, you should have allowed sufficient space to react and then stop without hitting them. But there is a significant difference between someone e-braking and giving no signs that they are about to slow down then coming to a near dead stop courtesy of the car in front absorbing all their energy.

Think about that next time you are driving along in traffic at 80 clicks, if the car in front came to a DEAD stop, would you be able to stop in time.

ant ant 10:31 am 18 Jun 09

It’s funny how people growl about people going slow past accidents and “rubbernecking”. Doesn’t this crash illustrate exactly WHY people slow down when passing accidents? It’s for safety. People are walking about, cars are pulling out to go around the accident.

Do people really think it’s wrong to slow down when passing an accident?

sepi sepi 10:05 am 18 Jun 09

You did the right thing in giving the lady a lift home, and it is probably her insurance company claiming you are at fault, not her.

I’d just leave it up to the insurance agencies to fight it out. That’s why I pay for insurance, just so I don’t ever have to deaL with this stuff.

ahappychappy ahappychappy 9:41 am 18 Jun 09

deezagood said :

A friend once told me of their involvement as the 2nd in a row of 4 cars. Constabulary asked each driver how many hits they felt from behind to determine which driver was at fault. ie mate stopped in time then felt two wacks that pushed him into the car in front.

1st car stopped
2nd car stopped in time
3rd car didn’t stop in time and smacked into 2nd
4th car couldn’t stop in time due to abrupt stop of 3rd
At some stage 2nd got pushed into 1st

On the face of it 3rd car would appear to be at fault.

Happy to be corrected by those that are involved in the actual assessment of these matters as a profession

I was a passenger in an accident quite like this one actually. I was a passenger in the 2nd car, the car infront of us came to a complete stop, we came to a complete stop (all be in an inch or two away from the 1st car), and then the 3rd car connected with us at all be it 60km/h. This forced us into the car infront, and a 4th car then hit the 3rd.

We asked the insurance company of my mate what they’re perception would be, and as we had completely come to a stop (which the AFP were rather specific of asking) we could NOT be deemed at fault. This is obvious as both our car, and the car infront, had safely made a stop before the accident. However…

The two middle cars have been written off, and somehow, the 3rd car’s driver has decided that she is not at fault? She is un-insured, and is therefore acting like a weasel and claiming the 4th car hit her, which forced her into us. All other parties involved have given statements to the AFP which say we didn’t feel the 4th car’s impact as that happened after our car was launched down the road and it is impossible for her to have hit us so hard if she had already been hit.

Go figure that one out, unfortunately, her attempt to weasel out of the situation will only cost her more money down the track…

ikarus ikarus 9:40 am 18 Jun 09

jake555 said :

What idiot gave you that advice?

Jeez.. what’s your problem? Taking her to the police station to report the accident and getting her breath tested would have been a good idea (with her permission). Whether she was required to get a blood test or not after the fact is up to the cops..

Maybe take a couple of deep breaths before you blow your top on the interweb hey?

I would look at it the other way and say what idiot told you not to?

jake555 jake555 8:42 am 18 Jun 09

kieran AP said :

For Jake555: I was stationary or almost as I was inching forward. I was in a diesel. AS the line of cars cleared in front of me, it took me longer (diesel) to move forward than the other cars. Also, as I was entirely in the other lane but not perpendicular, eg on an angle, the hit from behind pushed me….wait for it…on to the median strip…which appears to be what I wrote above… I am grateful that no other vehicles/people were damaged.

Fair enough. All I wanted was some clarification. I agree with most, that if you were in the lane in sufficient time – her fault. If the lane change was dangerous, giving her insufficient time, your fault.

kieran AP said :

for your second question. I could have a. left her behind in the dark on the side of a 80 kmh road on a freezing night with no houses for miles with out a working phone or b. I could have taken her somewhere. I chose to take her home. I could have just as easily have taken her to the nearest police station or back about 5 km to the hospital and left the authorities to deal with it.

But thanks for asking the questions. Its people like you that make RA what it is.

You didn’t actually answer my second question, which was actually two questions:
1. What idiot gave you that advice?
2. Did you plan on restraining her while hospital staff took a blood sample?

What do you mean you “chose” to take her home? I’m guessing you offered to take her home and she accepted. If a stranger offered me a lift home, then began driving in the opposite direction, I’d be calling the Police.

zig zig 9:56 pm 17 Jun 09

Her mobile wasn’t working? Was that because she was using it at the time of the accident….?

bd84 bd84 9:56 pm 17 Jun 09

Trouble is that it becomes their word agains yours if you have no witnesses. It could go either way with this, while most rear end accidents are the fault of the driver running up the back, if you pull out infront of another vehicle it will be your fault. Good luck with finding the witness.

Having said that, I’ve been cut off about 4 times tis week by people who just think they can pull straight into the other lane when they put their indicator on and not doing the speed limit.

Fisho Fisho 8:16 pm 17 Jun 09

Fairly common tactic by insurance companies, to send a claim letter to you in the hope you will pay it.

kieran AP kieran AP 8:12 pm 17 Jun 09

bubzie said :

darn, i would of drove past there like 15-20 mins later, sorry!

just curious bubzie, did you notice a car in the median strip in the middle or if in the left lane, 2 cars still on the side of the road. (Heading down the hill from mugga lane about 100m from Sulwood turn off???).

More importantly, did you see any police anywhere???

Kieran

kieran AP kieran AP 8:10 pm 17 Jun 09

For Jake555: I was stationary or almost as I was inching forward. I was in a diesel. AS the line of cars cleared in front of me, it took me longer (diesel) to move forward than the other cars. Also, as I was entirely in the other lane but not perpendicular, eg on an angle, the hit from behind pushed me….wait for it…on to the median strip…which appears to be what I wrote above… I am grateful that no other vehicles/people were damaged.

for your second question. I could have a. left her behind in the dark on the side of a 80 kmh road on a freezing night with no houses for miles with out a working phone or b. I could have taken her somewhere. I chose to take her home. I could have just as easily have taken her to the nearest police station or back about 5 km to the hospital and left the authorities to deal with it.

But thanks for asking the questions. Its people like you that make RA what it is.

bubzie bubzie 7:31 pm 17 Jun 09

darn, i would of drove past there like 15-20 mins later, sorry!

jake555 jake555 7:00 pm 17 Jun 09

Igglepiggle said :

I waited until all the cars behind me had gone past and the right hand lane was clear. I then pulled out into the right hand lane. As there were the other cars in front of me merging from the left to right hand lane, I was left almost stationery in the right hand lane.

Just as the cars in front of me moved off I was rear ended. I didn’t hear the sound of brakes or anything, just a massive bang and my car was pushed approx 15 metres down the road and onto the median strip. I reported the accident to police on my mobile and then, as the lady who was driving was shaking badly and told me her mobile was not working so couldn’t get someone to come and get her, I took her home.

If there was a line of “almost stationary” cars directly in front of you (as were you), then how did your car get pushed 15 metres without hitting any other cars?

Igglepiggle said :

(I have since received advice that I should have taken her straight to Hospital/Police station for blood tests rather than home!)

What idiot gave you that advice? Did you plan on restraining her while hospital staff took a blood sample?

Unless there are injuries or the vehicles are unable to be moved from the road, Police usually don’t attend. The crash is just reported by both parties at a later time at a police station & the insurance companies figure it out from there.

PsydFX PsydFX 6:44 pm 17 Jun 09

Good luck Kieran. Glad to hear you’re alright.

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