Malaysian Hardcore Band Detained And Interrogated In Melbourne.

VY, didn’t you say before that US and UK tourists are more likely to be overstayers? If that is the case…would that perhaps indicate that Racial Profiling is not working as well as it’s supposed to?

On the terrorism front, there isn’t much of a way to tell, based on the information available to (I think – spook, anyone?). Australia isn’t really that important a target for the many terrorist groups about. As much as John Howard claimed otherwise, we’re not a big country on the world stage. We have a small population, a very small military and most foreigners think we wrestle crocs all day when we’re not drinking fosters and cooking ‘shrimp’ on the barbie. The last AFP terrorism case was a complete f-k up anyway. I’d hate to see how we go against the actually real terrorists. You cannot say that racial profiling has worked because we haven’t had a terrorist attack.

Good point tap. The idea of the profiling is that if they are from a “rich white country” they are less likely (based on historical data and analysis) to be doing the wrong thing. In this case the system worked – by using profiling, persons who were not compliant with entry requirements were identified and stopped. I’m not sure what the problem is.

This is not to say that people from “rich white countries” do no wrong, simply that the incidence of of wrongdoing by persons from some other origins is higher. Border protection agencies have limited resources with which to work, so they try to put them where they will be most effective.

You’ve already said that you agree they had the wrong visa, but you seem to have an issue with the profiling part. Would you have as much of an issue if the profiling had picked up drug or illegal arms shipment destined for Australia?

In relation to your last comment, I posted becase I have first hand experience in this area – do you?

VY: They wouldnt have been caught if they were from a rich white country, as they wouldn’t have been checked out as thouroughly. The tourist visa would have been enough to get them in. Comment 97 (as well as many other ones)

Do you really think you are going to add something new here?

We also know for a fact that Racial Profiling is used in customs.

Of course it is – some places of origin on the planet, and indeed some countries, produce humans who have a higher than average propensity for doing the wrong thing when it comes to border controls. Fact. By using this approach our border security agencies are vastly more effective than they would be if simply stopping and/or searching people at random. This is how Australia chooses to protect its borders, and it has proven to be the most effective means available so far.

But to say that the band would been allowed in once it was discovered they were on the wrong visa simply because they were from a “rich white country” is laughable. It’s a very uninformed and uneducated view.

FWIW, I have first hand professional experience in Australian border security.

Spideydog: You’re points are useless because I have already said everything that you are saying. See comment 40.

I have asked for evidence that I am wrong. That is ‘seeking’. I am looking for proof in other areas.

The claims (not against the workers, against the system) are substantiated. See comment 60.

You have added nothing new here. Useless.

And you (every dipshit here who hasn’t given a decent amount of thought to what I am saying and just railed against it on instinct) didn’t answer my question about the logic.

How are they useless points tap… you have formed an opinion on a one sided version of events. Neither of us now if there are other things that customs considered to make thier decision? That group MAY have had “known links” to other persons who had fraud’d customs before, they MAY have had previous indiscretions in other coutnries that we don’t know of. All you know is what a band has told you over the internet.

You have twisted what I have said and tried to put words in my mouth throughout the “our conversation” and do nothing but point me back to your previous points that having nothing to do with what I am arguing with you about. I AM NOT ARGUING AS TO WHY THEY WERE THROWN OUT, THE REASONS OR THE VALIDITY…… My point and only point I have made to you, is that :

You have formed an opinion on a one sided story, Without seeking the “customs” side which in my opinion is a very silly thing to do and are obviously making un-substantiated allegations against the customs workers.

Spideydog: Alright, so you claim its plausible. Thats a start. I do think it is the reason, but like i have always said we dont have the full story here. You can keep saying i dont have the full story all you want, it isn’t being argued. Everytime you say it i reply, yes thats true. I even said as much before you weighed in with your useless points. See comment 40. Dipshit.

And no, it just didn’t add up. Feel free to add more reasons. Preferably ones that hold water though.

And yes, you are logically wrong. Answer me this: If they were kicked out due to them playing gigs, why did the authorities believe that they were there to work … just like previous groups of Malaysians? Here is the answer: They didn’t. The previous groups of Malaysians were not bands to do gigs, they were people looking to become illigal immigrants. That is the reason this band was not allowed in.

And no I wont believe anything, that statement you made is another example of how your illogical mind works.

No m8, didn’t add up to YOU. The world does not revolve around what you think or believe.

If you believe what an “alleged offender/s” have to say without knowing all the other facts or hearing any other persons side of the story (customs) you will believe anything my friend.

We have not been logically been proved wrong you git. You have convinced yourself you are logically right, thats it…..

When you don’t have the full facts, everything has a plausible possibility. It is also plausible that the exact opposite of what you are claiming, occurred to the band as well.

You can claim “plausibility” if you wish, but your whole point throughout this thread is that they were detained and denied entry purely on racial reasons alone. Thats not Plausible, your stating fact.

I am quite happy to state plausible for either way, why? Because I wasn’t there and won’t make in “Informed opinion” until I have heard from both the band and customs.

and that is a ‘if’ i get a reply.

Spideydog: When did i say everything on the net was believable? Pathetic point. You’ve given your one reason why the badn might lie and it didn’t add up.

You all change your stories from ‘its clear they were throw out because of the wrong visa!’ to ‘Well we cant be sure the story is true!’. When you are logically proved wrong on your original point. No admission of the plausibility of my assertions. Dont think i havn’t noticed. Very early on I was saying that we were lacking the authorities side of the story, there is no argument about that point.

I can not prove that no white bands have ever been stopped, i can only be proved wrong, by example of a band that has been stopped. You find it, prove your point that this is not a case of discrimination.

I can attempt to prove my second assertion though, I have sent an email to the band asking them to elaborate on the other bands that this has happened to, to see if any of them had the correct visa and were still not allowed. If i get a reply ill post it here, even if it says all the badns it happened to were on tourist visas. If that were the case then that would not prove my second assertion wrong, but only would not be proof that it is right.

mutley…again said :

OK, I’m bowing out here.

You are a posturing idiot tap. If you take as gospel something put on the net by an aggrieved party, then I’ve got a case of wine I’d like to sell you for $22.

I also saw on the net, that native Antarcticans are planning on sending goats to the moon on rocket ships …. It’s posted on the net, and they sound soooo believable, it’s gotta be true. I also saw a post of “the end of the world”. They posted all this evidence, sounded real believable and they have no resons to lie about it???

Yes, over the top I know. But you believing an internet story (oh yeah posted by the alleged offenders – not going to be real un-biased comments there eh!) without ANY personal involvement in the matter, is just stupid.

You have stated unequivocally that “rich white musicans” in the same circumstance would not be detained. You have no way of validating that comment, except telling everyone that they should prove it to you. You made the statement – you prove it.

Pffft.

See you Mutley. You’re a dipshit.

neanderthalsis: Comment 36. Next.

tap said :

I am saying this wouldn’t have happened to a white band from a rich country. (the people wouldn’t fit the profile of possible overstayers)

quote]

I do recall that the good folk from Immi have blocked folk from rich white countries before. David Irving springs to mind, if you’ll allow a non-musician with rather nutty views as an example; as does Snoop Doggy Dog and D12 although they are black, but very rich.

Joe Cocker was arrested and deported in 1972, Eminem was very nearly not allowed in the country but Phil Ruddock relented and let him in on the condition that he had to “respect Australia’s multicultural society and avoid vilifying or inciting discord in the community”.

One could almost argue that it is musicians that Immi doesn’t like, not Malaysians.

There are those who will look at an incident, see a different culture / skin colour involved and automatically cry “RACIST” without thinking could there be another reason…

OK, I’m bowing out here.

You are a posturing idiot tap. If you take as gospel something put on the net by an aggrieved party, then I’ve got a case of wine I’d like to sell you for $22.

Ok, mutley and your answer for why the authorities did not believe them that they were here to do gigs? and insisted they were here to do work like the previous groups of Malaysians before them? Key word being Malaysian. The authorities were not interested in the gigs.

See comment 51. Admit that my points are plausible. They clearly are. I think they are far more likely, because my theory fits with all avaiable information, yours is contrary to information, an eyewitness account, that we do have.

Yes spideydog, racial profiling is racist, no matter which country is doing it. Your complaint sounds like a “Im a white guy, its so hard’ rant but im going to leave it because it has nothing whatsoever to do with what we were talking about.

They broke the rules, and faced the consequences of breaking an entriely different rule. This is covered. Not a win for customs, co incidence.

There is a third option about why we don’t have evidence of a rich white band, who wouldn’t have to go through the same processes in customs that Malaysians do (due to the high rate of overstaying (see comment 60)).

That option is: It may not have happened.

And you’re assuming that they got everything right except the one thing for which we have evidence (the visa).

I’m still waiting for you to show me under which provision they were refused entry on the grounds of race.

They may have come to attention because of their background, but if a US or British band did the same thing, they would have been asked the same questions and been refused entry for the same reasons. In fact the US and UK have more overstayers than Malaysians in pure number terms.

They were not refused entry because of race.

You are claiming offence on behalf of a group of people who stuffed up, and you (and they it seems)are trying to find excuses for their stupidity in not getting the right visa by claiming racism.

The chinese are extra careful when it comes to western visitors to it’s shores, (probably with good reason) I suppose this is racial profiling too, and in which case makes them racist too huh?

Face it, this is reality.

I am sick to death of the ” we are predominately a white nation and therfore anything we do that may be negative (when legitimate) is automatically racist. Whereas other supposed “non-white” countries heavily restrict immigration and even visiting to thier shores, but don’t get a racist card thrown at them?

They broke the rules and faced the consequences. I have no doubt that a “rich white band” in the same conditions would have faced the same consequences considering the high amount of transparency and accountability government departments face these days.

We don’t have evidence that a “rich white band” has faced the same fate because:

1 – None of use here work in customs (that we are aware of anyway) and don’t have access to that type of information.

2 – A rich white band has not gotton on the net and winged about it (that I know of anyway or recently).

Thank goodness Immigration are fighting the good fight against musical acts.

It is too awful to imagine an Australia overrun by musical types clutching incorrect visa’s.

If they were allowed to play their instruments in return for renumeration – what a nightmare scenario.

One Minute Silence

Mutley: You are still assuming they didn’t have sufficient money. Given they planned a tour (albeit with the wrong visa) you don’t think they would have planned how much money it would take. Saying that enough money in Malaysia is not enough in australia is ridiculous. Same goes for travel. Because they got one thing wrong does not mean they got everything wrong.

Try comment 51.

Qbn survivor: I try to get out but keep getting dragged back in!

I never said they had the right visa.

If the reason they were not allowed into the country was the gigs, then why would the authorities have been trying to trick the band and Juzzy into admitting they were actually here to work?

Secondly: “they insisted that we allegedly came to find jobs like the other groups of Malaysians who were detained prior before we arrived.” – You think the other groups of Malaysians that came prior to them were also in bands here to do gigs?

It has already been covered by numerous people that people from certain countries are checked more thouroughly than others. There is reason for this, but it is racist.

There are two very good reasons to believe the gigs were not the concern of the authorities. In fact, it is ridiculous to believe the gigs were the reason.

I am saying this wouldn’t have happened to a white band from a rich country. (the people wouldn’t fit the profile of possible overstayers)

and I am saying that considering the gigs were not the reason (see above for why), it is plausible the same thing would have happened even if they had the right visa.

Whats you reason to believe that the gigs were the reason they were kicked out? Because i think it goes something like this: They were kicked out, this is something they did to deserve being kicked out, therefore that must be the reason they were kicked out. That is flawed logic.

These are not new points. Perhaps you are the one who should have read what was being said.

Ok fine im not going anywhere, who is the next dipshit who wants to come and repeat the same points at me, have me answer them and then not answer my answers?

OK tap –
Mutley: in your example you assumed that the amount of money wasn’t much. Why? In the only evidence we have to go by, they said they had enough money to see them through. My assumptions are based on the information at hand, you are assuming the information at hand is false. My assumptions have reasons, your assumptions are entirely baseless.
They state that they have bugger all cash, but they have a bank account with sufficient money – Hell they even showed the bankcard! What might be regarded as sufficient funds in Malaysia certainly wouldn’t be enough here. Say they had lots of money. The officer asks them what their jobs are, where they got that much money from. If it doesn’t make sense then more reasonable doubt.

You also assume they did not have travel plans sorted, which is one of the most important parts of organising a tour. Why? I could do the same as you and write a diatribe where a white band gets in the country on a tourist visa to counter yours but it would only be as pointless as yours. That is not proof.

They couldn’t organise the right visa for their trip. This is evidence that they are not very organised. Therefore I made an assumption based on a single fact. Your many assumptions however are not based on a single fact, but on one sided assertions (which are not evidence).

Also – Here is the Migration Act. I’d like you to point out where it states that an officer can refuse entry based on their race.

Sorry, have to put my two cents worth in!
Tap – Isn’t one of the provisions of a tourist visa that you must not do anything that may be construed as promoting a business venture? I believe the same point was made earlier in the piece by p1. Therefore, once could reasonably assume that even playing gigs gratis is engaging in activity to build a business in Australia. Which is not allowed on a tourist visa. Which is what the visitors had. Which was not the right one. WHICH IS WHY THEY WEREN’T ALLOWED TO ENTER AUSTRALIA.
It takes a bit to get me fired up, but watching you try to defend your racism allegations is incredibly irritating. You complain about everyone else going over the same thing over and over again? Read your own posts. Instead of sitting in front of the PC getting your knickers in a twist every time someone refutes one of your posts, how about you actually read what people are trying to say.
Before you respond with more of the same, I ask you to please read the point I made above. If you have any nouse at all, you’ll realise that unless you are the customs officer, there is nothing you can say that even hints this was racially motivated.
Let me repeat again just in case you didn’t get it – the reason this band was not permitted entry was because they did not have the right visa. Not because they were Malaysian.

(me laughing a little now – friendly)

You have said about 4 times now that you had enough and will make no further comment, but still come back…lol

I will do us both a favour now and add nothing more to our discussion and allow you to keep your promise to bow out…. sweet

Lets do it together… 1…2…3.. now go.

uhh i know that SpideyDog, what i was saying is that i never claimed otherwise, yeah?

tap said :

Spidedog: Please re read this post. Or maybe just read it. Find where I have been saying that I know the whole story and show it to me.

Umm, my whole point was that you DON’T know the whole story and that your opinion has been formed by a one sided story. I wish you did know the whole story and then you would have an “informed opinion”.

So no, I won’t point it out, because I never said that you “thought” you knew the whole story. It is completly opposite to the point I was making.

And you didn’t add any more reasons. Yeah I think you are right, its far more plausible that the band wrote an unbitter letter because they were bitter, lying about why they were not allowed into Australia than the band wrote what happened to them.

But its now the end of the day, no one has convinced me that my assertions that this wouldn’t have happened to a rich white band and secondly that this could still have happened to the Malaysians even if they had the right visa are wrong. Also it appears that I have convinced no one of this. Until some real development on this issue comes around (which i doubt it will) I can no longer see the point in discussing this. We aren’t really even talking about the original topic anymore.

Well this was a rewarding post.

Spidedog: Please re read this post. Or maybe just read it. Find where I have been saying that I know the whole story and show it to me.

Hmmmm Alrighty then…….. You don’t have to write something Bitter, to prove you are bitter. And that is just one example

Yes, the “other side” might be lying too…but we wouldn’t know because thier version doesn’t even factor in for you. You have no interest in hearing the other side, because you’ve already made your mind up, by hearing wha thye have to say on the internet.

Have fun living life at face value.

Oh, and the Magistrate example is entierly relevent, maybe a little too relevent for you too admit.

Oh and in regards to your magistrate example, that does not apply in the slightest to what im saying.

Spideydog: We also know for a fact that Racial Profiling is used in customs. Add that to my proof.

So at the end of the day you have the fact that the band might be lying. Well true, ofcourse even if we did have an acount of the authorities side of the story they might be lying too. Your one example of why they would be lying is they are bitter. Even though what they wrote is not particularly bitter at all. Nice.

Strange view to you, basing views on the information at hand to me.

Oh Tap…………..that is ONE side to a story. There is always 2 sides to a story.

They have no reason to lie about it……are you for real. I mean Seriously. They have every reason to lie about it…bitterness for a start (I am not saying that they are lying, but not saying they are telling the truth either)

You are very nieve my friend. For example – if Magistrates only listened to 1 side of the story, there would not be very many “not guilty verdicts” Everyone would be guilty (some would say that a good thing..lol)

Oh well, very stange view of the world indeed 🙁

Oh and your last paragraph… Have you read the start of the post? Im pretty sure the band were witnesses to what was happening to them. They are real people involved. I believe it because I do not see a reason why they would lie. But i have said from the start of this im more than happy to hear the other side of the story. I have made my opinion on this based on the one side, just as everyone else here has. Its RiotACT, we rarely have all the information available to us.

Spideydog: Didnt notice your comment there.

1. What?
2. I’ve given my source, its the same one we are all using. Been covered. I Keep asking for more but you are all saying i should be the one to prove me wrong…
3. Oh. That was meant to point out that your comment about whether or not i work in customs was worthless.

And what have they told me? Where is this evidence that the same thing would have happened to a white band from a rich country?

My proof/evidence/conjecture is the article thumper. You dont think its enough, I want more too, but at the moment its all there is.

Ok this is crap, im only going to respond from now on if there is actually something new to talk about.

tap said :

Spideydog: You complain about me not giving the other side a chance to defend itself, yet I have repeatedly asked for evidence that I am wrong. That is giving the other side a chance. You say it is wrong for me to ask for the otherside to defend itself. I should find the evidence myself? I do not think it exists. You are making the assumption that there is some evidence out there to back your opinion, I am using what is available.

1. Ah by the “the other side” I mean Customs….why, because they were the only other persons there, not me or you…or anyone else here for that matter.
2. You made the racism assumption, the burdon is on you to prove it, not us.
3. I made NO such assumption of “some evidence out there to back my opinion” At no time have I stated, that the decision to deport them was NOT race related or IS race related. I did however, make the point that you made assumptions and that it was a silly thing to do…the end.

tap said :

Why are you always going on about my right to have an opinion?

Ah… because you brought it up….. Quote from you:

tap said :

clearly I have no right to an opinion

tap said :

As has been covered in an earlier comment I believe what the band says

So you believe everything you read on the internet, because they say so ?? Without even hearing the other side of the story (you know from the real people involved, customs…not other people on the net who weren’t witness to it ??)

Mutley: in your example you assumed that the amount of money wasn’t much. Why? In the only evidence we have to go by, they said they had enough money to see them through. My assumptions are based on the information at hand, you are assuming the information at hand is false. My assumptions have reasons, your assumptions are entirely baseless. You also assume they did not have travel plans sorted, which is one of the most important parts of organising a tour. Why? I could do the same as you and write a diatribe where a white band gets in the country on a tourist visa to counter yours but it would only be as pointless as yours. That is not proof.

Spideydog: You complain about me not giving the other side a chance to defend itself, yet I have repeatedly asked for evidence that I am wrong. That is giving the other side a chance. You say it is wrong for me to ask for the otherside to defend itself. I should find the evidence myself? I do not think it exists. You are making the assumption that there is some evidence out there to back your opinion, I am using what is available.

Why are you always going on about my right to have an opinion?

Both of you: No new points were added from your comments, read above for my answers.

Nemo: Depends, why was she turned around?

As has already been covered (sigh). The fact that they were Malaysian and the a lot of Malaysians overstay their visas was the reason they were not allowed in.

No, i wasnt performing the interview. Good point. As has been covered in an earlier comment I believe what the band says.

You assume the gigs were their main concern. In the face of the only evidence/conjecture/information whatever the hell you want to call it, that we have. The story says that the authorities did not believe that they were doing gigs. This has been covered. Why do you assume that the band just didn’t understand what was going on?

Bollocks, give me something new here.

Onya Tonka, most of us got it.

TAP, last night on border security a middle aged woman from the UK was turned around at the airport, she was also on a tourist visa and had done the wrong thing. Are we going to have a thread for her too? She had darker skin, so it was possibly racism…

As a legal professional I am familiar with the Migration Act, there are no provisions to refuse or cancel someone’s visa on race grounds.

You say the Immigration Dept was not worried that the band were performing gigs – Who says so? Were you the person interviewing the band?

I assure you this would have been the main concern. It just may not have appeared that way to the band during questioning.

I think Mutley hit the nail on the head – very funny post btw

Who cares anyway, not like they were One Minute Silence

Now thats music (Disclaimer: in my opinion, dont want to get into a discussion of what anyone else thinks is music, because what I call music may not be what you think is music ya dig? Kapish ? )

P.S. Cannot believe this thread is still goin g – and only in circles… How about you click that linky up there , turn the sub on (Esp if you live in high density housing estates) and make your ears bleed.

Quote

tap said :

Spideydog: You have absolutely no evidence that im wrong, so you go get the facts before throwing the ‘your throwing the racist card’ card.

M8, I’m not the one making baseless allegations….You are. Once again, get your facts (FACTS) straight before making race allegations, based on assumptions.

Tap,

Why should we have to provide you evidence to the contrary, as you have of your own admission, made an assumption. Your assumption has no merit WHAT SO EVER and you want US to prove YOU wrong.

Oh and sorry dude, assumptions are never valid. I assume you are an idiot, but that would not be fair, as the only information I have to go on, is your internet blog postings.

You have based an “Opinion” on a one sided “story” without even giving the other side a chance to defend itself….. and your telling us to prove you wrong !! Assumptions are dangerous and stupid and I believe you deserve some of the numerous critisms in this thread.

Nowhere have I said you aren’t allowed to have an opinion (as a matter of fact, I said the contrary) but it doesn’t mean that I have to agree with it!

Racist Immigration Official: Hello sir, what is your purpose in visiting Australia?

White bandmember: Hi, I’m Gunter Fisting from German Hardcore band Rammitupyourarsestein! We’re going to play some gigs man!

R: OK. You have an electronic tourist visa that means you can’t work in Australia.

W: We’re not working dude, we’re gigging!

R: Sir, that suggests to me you are going to work. I’m going to need to ask you some more questions. Can you give me an idea of how you are going to support yourself in Australia? You’ve only got a small amount of cash on you.

W: No problemo dude, we all share a bank account.

R: And how much is in this account? How do each of you access the account? Don’t you have separate money? Who uses a group account unless they’re married?

W: $XXXX, we’ve got a keycard man, and we share the love.

R: That’s not a lot of money. How long are you intending to stay? I note you are leaving from Brisbane – you’ve got quite a way to travel and it can be a bit expensive to travel in Australia.

W: It’s cool man, we’ll hitch or something.

R: Look, you don’t have enough money to cover all your costs while you’re in Australia.

W: But dude – we’re gigging. We’ll get the phat cash man.

R: But that’s work, and if I let you in, and you don’t do the gigs, then you don’t have enough money and then you’d have to work anyway to get to Brisbane so you can leave. So I’m going to refuse you entry. Unfortunately the last plane back to Germany has left, so we’ll have to put you up until the next plane leaves – it’s a day away, so you’ll have to be locked up for the night. Sorry.

W: You racist prick. This would never have happened if I was Malaysian!!!

Mutley: i realise im the one talking about race. However it was first mentioned in the actual article, so Im not the one to bring race into this. My reasons for my assumptions are above. They are valid.

tap – I’m just not quite sure why you are able to make only positive assumptions about the band, and only negative ones about the Immigration officials. You’re not working off the same assumptions as everyone else here, you are just letting your own prejudices interpret the information available according to your own extremely narrow viewpoint.

Would it help if it was a darkie immigration official who turned them around, or would he/she just have been an Uncle Tom doing whitey’s work for him?

You are the only one bringing race into this.

As Tonka has said… profiling is based on real statistics, not race.

Mil: That sentence made no sense.

Everyone: Before posting your comment, read all of the above. If your point hasn’t already been discussed then please share it with me. If it has i cant be bothered repeating myself anymore.

So everything else post that fact is conjecture. This article has more of the same: http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23502801-3102,00.html

Mil: I never said they had the right visa. For christs sake.

Tap, there’s more information on this page: http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/tourist/676/obligations.htm

In particular: “You are not able to work in Australia. If you are coming to Australia to work, you should consider applying for a visa which allows you to work in Australia.”

Spideydog: Yes im assuming the myspace account is true. This has been covered in comment 48. Im working off exactly the same assumptions as everyone else here.

No I havn’t worked in customs. Good point, clearly I have no right to an opinion.

I dont know they would, I assume they would. For the following reasons a) No where in the information we have at hand does it mention that the authorities were upset about them doing gigs. Infact the authorities seem more likely to have considered it a lie. Hence the authorities trying to ‘trick’ the band and their mate Juzzy. See comment 44. The band was not allowed in because it appeared to the authorities that they could not support themselves and many Malaysians come to australia to work illegally so they assumed thats what these Malasians were doing. They would not make the same assumptions about white people from rich countries, im not saying without reason, im just saying they wouldn’t. b) I have asked for evidence contrary to my assertion and havn’t heard anything, yet.

You have absolutely no evidence that im wrong, so you go get the facts before throwing the ‘your throwing the racist card’ card.

Malaysians out.

Ok so you have clearly just started commenting without reading the comments previous. And you’re calling me a clown.

My point is that the same thing would not have happened to a white band from America, the US or Canada. (Being white rich countries)

I have asked for evidence contrary to my assertion, if i see this I will admit im wrong.

Secondly im saying that it is plausible that even if this band had the right visa they still would not have been let in. Considering you assertion that all their proof of why they were here isn’t enough they would have been in no better a position to prove they had money, things to do, a plan to go home, a home to go to etc if they had a different visa.

Im saying that why they shouldn’t have been let in and why they weren’t let in are completely seperate things.

Comment 48 goes into why racial stereotyping is racist. Even your explanation is racist, it has its reasons granted, but that doesn’t mean it is not racist.

To say that its not the race in question, but the country, is drawing a strange and pointless line. If a country is on the list of people who get checked out more thoroughly and that country is 90% asian skin colour, then that is close to racist. Moreover if 90% of asians belong to countries that are on the list then I say whats the difference?

As a side point, say there are 4 people in this band. say their bank account contained $1000 (im sure there was more, just using the number because its easy to use). If instead of pooling their money they had a bank account each with $250 in it do you think they would have proved they could support themselves? If you do then I think the term clown might need to be directed a little closer to home.

I did not admit they did something wrong. I didn’t have to, I never argued any different. This ‘bleating’ about racism is because of my original points.

Tap,

Do you work in customs? Do you have any experience in observing customs at work first hand?

How do you know for a fact that if the circumstances were “A band from a rich country and were white” would have let them through no worries?

As far as i am concerned, you have made a massive assumption. We all know what ASSumptions do don’t we.

You have absolutely no idea of how many “white” people have been turned away for the same or similar reasons. You have just assumed that white people don’t get turned away. Go and get the facts first before throwing he racist card.

Your entitled to your opinion, but in my opinion, I think it is a very shallow one, gained from tunnel vision.

No you clown… read what I said.

“People from other countries with high records of overstay etc will cop the same checks on a daily basis. Nothing racist about it.”

This would include white people, black people etc. It is based on overstay/illegal worker statistics, not skin colour or race.

That is fact not conjecture.

Also,

“According to the conditions of their visas each member of the band (each visa holder) would have been required to demonstrate that they could support themselves while they were here.”

That’s the law… what part of that don’t you get?

No a common bank account is not enough.

Each of them needed to show they had enough money individually to support themselves while here.

That’s the law… It’s clearly stated on their visa conditions.

Again.. what part of that don’t you get?

That would have been enough to deny them entry. Not having the money would have also acted as an indicator they intended to work while here. How else were they going to support themselves?

Very noble of them to do a tour for nothing if that’s what they intended… great, but whatever dude.

Ok so you admit they did the wrong thing… why all the bleating about racism etc.

There have been plenty of people denied entry into oz for a variety of reasons.

Race isn’t on the list of reasons why people are checked or denied.

My hand isn’t on it mate.

Skadblanir: Refer to comment 56 it applies to what you said.

Tonka: How can you say that on being checked if they had the right visa they would have been let in? Considering their visa was not the reason they were not allowed entry, it is not fair to say the right one would have certainly allowed it. Their visa was not the issue. But, at least you acknowledge that.

Why would one bank account not suffice? Surely it is the amount of money in the bank account rather than the amount of bank accounts that should be taken into account. Regardless the writer says “But we explained it was a safety precaution and we had a bank account with sufficient money in it. We even presented our bank card. We also presented proofs that we have stable lives in Malaysia. But it was all ignored.” – says to me even if they all had seperate bank accounts that wouldn’t have helped prove this. What would have they needed to do to prove they had the cash to support themselves?

They signed the visa believing they had covered that required meant Tonka, simple as that. I don’t think they were off base in believing that they could support themselves while over here either. They had enough money. The only problem on this front is that the authorities only seemed to care about the cash they had on them, and not the cash they had readily available. Which is wrong.

If you applied the same rules that you think is fair enough for this band then in order to enter australia as a tourist you would need to

1. Come from a country that has a low percentage of overstayers (preferably zero i assume)

2. Have … money? but that doesn’t count as proof you can support yourself.

3. Have a ticket back, but that doesn’t count as proof you will leave.

4. Have people to corroborate your story, but that isn’t evidence of your intentions in the country. (again they weren’t not allowed because of the gigs)

5. Have proof of a stable life in your native country, but that doesn’t count as proof as

So how exactly are these people going to convince the authorities if none of those things should count?

Racial profiling is racist, this has been covered in comment 48.

I personally know bands that have gone overseas without the intention of making money. Next time i see them ill ask what visa they had. I personally have gone on tours in Australia without making money. Tours are fun. This DIY tour organised by their mates was not going to be a money maker. You really don’t see how just playing your music in a different country would be reward enough? You would need a financial insentive to go? Thats sad for you, but try to believe that there are many musicians out there that would want to tour even if it was going to cost them… thats why they would have money in a bank account. But Regardless this is not the point, they were not disallowed entry because of their musical plans. This has been covered.

Im not saying they didn’t do the wrong thing, I wonder how many times i will have to repeat that?

See comment 56 for your reply to the ‘next time get em to apply for the right visa’ remark.

Im not sure if i would have to do it if i went to Malaysia to play music… I don’t see how you can be.

Its not what makes them so special Tonka, its what makes them so suspect that is what im talking about.

Get your hand off it dude.

*clapping*

They could just play a cassette tape of Iwan Fals. He’s the most hardcore kanaka from that region of the world I know.

Ok I didn’t want to get into this detail but here we go.

The stat I presented would have been enough for immigration to run basic checks on people. Not racism as I said, just common sense based on historic fact. People from other countries with high records of overstay etc will cop the same checks on a daily basis. Nothing racist about it.

On being checked…if their paperwork etc had been in order then hey guys… welcome to Australia… end of story. The fact is it wasn’t.

According to the conditions of their visas each member of the band (each visa holder) would have been required to demonstrate that they could support themselves while they were here. Whether you like it or not, a single bank account doesn’t do this. That’s the way the law works and sorry mate, a common bank account just doesn’t cut the mustard.

If they had actually read the conditions of their visas they’d have known this. By signing the visa form they actually signed a contract saying that they understood this condition and were willing to abide by it. Again that’s really simple… so why not actually do what the visa requires?

How many overstayers have return tickets? The overwhelming majority… that’s how many. If they don’t have a return ticket, then they don’t get in. It’s a requirement of the visa. Simple. That’s the way the law views it.

How many overstayers have stable lives in their home countries? A lot of them. They just decide that in spite of a nice home life they’re going to stay here and work and live illegally.

People corroborating their story and an itinerary don’t really mean squat in light of these other factors. In fact an itinerary only indicates that they’re going to be playing shows.

It’s not a great leap to arrive at the thought that playing shows means they’ll be earning income, which their visa says they cannot do. How many bands would pay to travel internationally and go to another country with the intention of playing free shows everywhere and not earn any money whatsoever?

I can’t think of any because it defies common sense. Sure… let’s pay thousands of dollars to go to New Zealand and do a tour for nothing. I bet that happens all the time.

Not.

Look dude… face it. They did the wrong thing.

Next time get em to apply for the right visas and abide by the conditions of the visas.

You’d have to do it to go to Malaysia.

What makes them so special that makes you think they’re above the law here.

Get your hand off it dude.

Tonka: Was it common sense to think these Malaysians would be overstaying considering they had enough money in a bank to see them through their stay, tickets back, proof of stable lives in Malaysia, people who would corroborate their story, a full itinerary of where they were going to be? You be the judge.

We have the stat for how many overstayers are Malaysian, now can we have the stat for Malaysians overstay?

Tap:
You have been weighed, measured, and found to be a nutjob.

White middle-class men of anglo-saxon descent do not have magical powers.
Nor does having money immediately grant you entry to the country, nor does having money available to you mean that you are not in the country to earn further money (as in receive income) or build your business

Immigration is more concerned with formalities and suspected misrepresentation of the formalities than race.

Try this…

Google Malaysian overstayers.

You’ll find this para below in the first document that comes up. Nearly one in ten people who overstayed in that period were Malaysian. Was it racism that made the border officers check or common sense based on historical fact? You be the judge.

‘As noted above, the majority of Malaysians entering Australia for short-term visits use an ETA. DIMA’s submission stated that there were instances where the ETA service had been abused and noted that it estimated that 8 per cent of overstayers in 2005–06 were Malaysians.31’

CaptainWhoreBags: You have misunderstood my point. The point im arguing is that they were not caught for what they did. They were not allowed in for an entirely different reason. Do not paraphrase me and get it wrong. You have not acknowledged this point.

You also have not acknowledged whether you think white people from a rich country would have been allowed in on tourist visas to do gigs, just the same as this band planned.

You also have not acknowledged that considering that they were not let in the country due to the error they did make, it is entirely plausible that they may have not been let in even if they had the right visa.

On the other hand i have acknowledged your point (never argued it). These people had the wrong visa and there was cause to not them in. Im saying that if you look a little deeper you will see where the issues are.

Tap dude.

I happen to know a lot about about this subject. You’re completely wrong about the racism thing.

All these guys had to do was apply for the right visa and show the border officers that they could follow the conditions of the visa. That’s all that was required of them.

They did neither of these things. It really is a simple process and millions of people from all over the world do it every year.

Don’t go playing the race card because they couldn’t do this simple thing.

Next time get them to apply for the right visa and have them actually read the conditions of the visa and follow them.

No brainer really.

tap: the point you’re arguing is that they shouldn’t have been caught. That they should have slipped through the net. It’s not a point I agree with, so I’m not acknowledging it.

And re-read what I typed: they MAY have got questioned because they were Malaysian. If they had all their paperwork in order, they would have then been allowed entry. The were denied entry because they didn’t have a valid visa.

You think there’s been a travesty of justice. I think the process worked as it should. That’s me done.

typo – “It was not the mistake they did make that denied them entry. It was a racist assumption they were coming to australia for different reasons.

What im saying is that there would have been no issue whatsoever if the band had been white and from a rich country. They would have been let through as tourists, and rightly so. I guess this discussion can only go in circles from here but once more time: They were not detained because of the bands plans to play. They were detained because they were suspected of planning other things. It mere lucky (for the authorities) co incidence that there was a legitimate reason (albeit a flimsy one as we have already covered the fact that there was no money going to be made) for them not being allowed entry.

I am saying the band should have had a chance to rectify the problem. but you are not acknowledging my central point here: It was not the mistake they did make that denied them entry. It was a racist assumption they were for different reasons.

I can say that it was based on race but not because they were Malaysian… huh? Not really a huge difference there.

Thumper: Im assuming you do not actually want a reply to your comment, or else you would have actually said something that was worth commenting on.

I fully support Immigration, Customs & AQIS using whatever means to determine who is not complying with border controls when entering the country. Yes, this is most likely a racist process. As long as the reasons for denying entry are a failure to comply with law, rather than being a member of a race, then so be it. The govt has decided that the methods in use offer the best protection for our borders.

Now if you’re arguing that in the case of an honest mistake people should be given an attempt to rectify it rather than mandatory deportation, then that has some merit. Perhaps the band should have been given an opportunity to apply for the correct visa at the time of entry.

You can claim they were questioned based on race, and you may well be right, but you can’t claim they were denied entry simply because they were Malaysian. Intent or otherwise, they didn’t comply with the requirements for entering the country to work. Bye bye.

Just re read my comment, to make something clear when i said ‘Everyone deserves more special treatment than those who travel here by boat Skidblanir, however that is a different issue.’ Im including the boat people in the ‘everyone’.

To whom it may concern: “Without the ‘correct piece of paper\entry in a database’, what they were doing was MIGRATING (TO WORK) ILLEGALLY”. I didnt argue that what you think the right outcome happened. I just said it happened for the wrong reasons. For you to think otherwise you must seriously think that they were not let into australia because they were going to play gigs. In the face of all we know about the issue. Perhaps you just think the ends justify the means, but thats a mighty hard ideal to justify.

However if you want me to argue that then fine, ill play devils advocate. You say they did was ‘MIGRATING (TO WORK) ILLEGALLY’. I say what they did was make a mistake. A mistake that should have been obvious to the authorities because of the overwhelming evidence to support that. The fact that they had money in a bank account shows that they did not plan on actually making money during their trip. The fact that they had tickets back to Malaysia shows that there was no intention of overstaying their visa. The fact that they could prove that they had stable lives in Malaysia and had no reason to become illegal workers shows that there is no motive for them to do so. They had people to corroborate their story, an itinerary planned. It should have been clear to trained professionals that these people were not planning on MIGRATING (TO WORK) ILLEGALLY in any real sense of the words.

I can not deny a mistake was made, but was their treatment non racist and fair? Can you honestly say that you believe the same would have happened to a white american band? or Canadian or English? While Im speaking in hypotheticals, bearing in mind the gigs were not what the authorities were worried about can you honestly say you believe that if they had the right visa the same thing wouldn’t have happened? Especially given that the writer says that this sort of thing happens a lot, and some other (i assume) band had it happen to them, maybe this other band had correct visas? I do realise this is hypothetical, but i do think its worth a thought though. Racial profiling, at the end of the day, is racist. That is its essence. It works off stereotypes. In this case the stereotype was not ‘Malaysians are all in Hardcore bands and tour in our country without the right visa!’ it was ‘Malaysians always come here then overstay their visas and try to get jobs’. Any argument along the lines that this was not racism, it was racial profiling, is akin to a line of argument that says this isn’t a orange, its an orange.

Evidence, conjecture, whatever. That is just semantics. Im going off what we know about the situation. I choose to believe the band wasn’t lying about what happened and what they were told about why what happened happened. That goes for you too mutley.

Everyone deserves more special treatment than those who travel here by boat Skidblanir, however that is a different issue.

I understand why Australia has immigration laws, I do not think they are to stop rogue Malaysian hardcore bands from entering and playing tunes. Do you?

Again just to make sure my point is clear. They were not turned back because of their intent to play music. They were turned away because the authorities believed they were going to do other work. They believed this because the colour of their skin. Racist. The ends do not justify the means.

Yes im going off the myspace account, Mutley. Just as everyone else is, well maybe other people havn’t read it. As far as white people being turned away everyday, ive reapetedly asked for some evidence of this. I want to see the same thing has happened to a rich white musician, then I will change my mind, as i have stated many times. My point is a white band would not have been detained for the suspicion of trying to get into the country to find jobs.

tap – Where is this evidence you speak of? The band’s myspace page? Do you have a copy of the refusal letter?

It sounds like they didn’t have the right visa, and you can’t apply for new ones at the border. So they were held until the next available flight back to Malaysia.

I think the “previous groups of Malaysians” refers more to the profile to which Captainwhorebags refers, rather than any specific group. Regardless of this, “white people from rich countries” get turned around at the border every day. They may have the wrong visa, be intending to work, or attempting to traffick others. And they would be detained too if there wasn’t an immediately available flight for them to return on.

If the immigration department is racist, then why did they let Malaysia and South Korea have electronic visa eligibility?

“There is evidence that“… allegations are not evidence, what you have is a conjecture.

Without the ‘correct piece of paper\entry in a database’, what they were doing was MIGRATING (TO WORK) ILLEGALLY.

Just because they did it on a plane, they deserve no more special treatment than those who spend months travelling by road through South-East Asia to be eventually stranded out on Ashmore Reef, or those who fight off sharks while coming across the Timor Strait from Papua.
At least those ones are more deserving of the title “Hardcore”.

But unreported, unrecorded, illegal, or otherwise discrepant migration brings with it a whole wealth of problems, which we as taxpayers foot the bill for.

Being “opposed to immigration” is like being “opposed to oxygen\sunlight”. It comes down to questions of how many, how often, of what category (as in more imported doctors, but fewer imported convicted felons), and for what purpose.
If all it took was someone at a border wearing a uniform and following procedure to prevent the proliferation of shit music, I’d be all for that, but in this case, it was just an issue of illegal migration.

For the record, I neither take issue with minorities in general or Malaysians in particular, every race and species has its examples of wonder and shit, and I reserve the right to form my own opinions on a case-by-case basis.

CaptainWhoreBags & Skadbladnir: As far as we know the authorities had no problem with them playing gigs. There is evidence that they didn’t give a stuff about gigs, and seems more likely that they didn’t believe it at all. There is also evidence that they were concerned that they were in australia for the same intentions that the previous group of Malaysians that got detained. Which wasn’t because they were a band.

If you consider it fine work to stop musicians playing in australia without the correct piece of paper thats fine, I personally don’t think that its medal winning behaviour but I understand why people think its the right thing. However What im saying is that it is a co incidence that you think the right outcome occured here. The authorities did the right thing for the wrong reason.

The have a few songs on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lqPVGmwpfA

@tap: You propose we act less like 1) and more like 2)?

1) These people showed up with invalid entry visas for conducting business in-country, and were deported.
Immigration Control Supervisor: “Fine work, Officer.”

2) These Malaysian people showed up with invalid entry visas for conducting business in-country, and were deported.
Immigration Control Supervisor: “Racist bigot, you should have let them in. Have some racial tolerance training.”

The only difference is that one mentions “Malaysian”, but Australia shouldn’t be giving preferential treatment to -anyone- based on nationality.

But as to your comment “ a)Some people people from malaysia had recently tried to get into australia for the purposes of working illegally“, the immigration control officer was looking directly at a group (or “band”) of Malaysians trying to get into the country to work illegally at the moment he\she told them this.

tap: yeah, and it’s just you know, coincidence that they were in fact coming here to play at gigs. Which is in breach of their visa conditions.

The people at the borders are professionals doing their jobs. Part of doing that job is to use “profiling” which is a necessarily discriminatory process to help determine the intentions of people entering the country. Their skills and training told them that these Malaysians warranted further questioning. Upon further questioning, it was decided that they were intending to violate the terms of their visa. How that decision was made, no-one here knows.

But it was still the correct decision, as evidenced by the email in the original post.

The “RACISM” card is played far too much. It would be racist to deny entry because they’re Malaysian, this was not the case.

Captainwhorebags: The ‘reasonable suspicion’ here appears more to be that a bunch of Malaysians had previously tried to come through, not that they were going to play gigs. Granted we do not have the authorities side of the story, but from what we know it does sound like racism. As I said before I would like to see some evidence that the same thing has happened to a, or a group, of white people from a rich country.

As far as the australians getting refused entry, well that sucks i spose, but a) that was not the information i was looking for and more importantly b) The story does not mention them having thier resumes on them, nor is there any reason to believe they did, so I do not see the relevance.

From what we know it sounds like the authorities knew that a)Some people people from malaysia had recently tried to get into australia for the purposes of working illegally and b)This group of people are Malaysian with little money on them and some far fetched story about being a band. Therefore they must be trying to become illegal immigrants. Racist.

I wonder if they spent more time behind bars than the average Canberra petty criminal ?

Now that would be funny.

‘Hardcore’ means they perform wild sex acts on stage.

tap: Australians have been refused entry into the USA because they were on a tourist visa yet had a printed resume in their luggage. I’m sure they weren’t told “naughty boy, now go have a look around and report back tomorrow for deportation please.” Held at the airport for the next plane home would be my guess.

Reasonable suspicion of breaching your visa is all that is required for that visa to be cancelled.

Without a valid visa or Australian passport you can’t enter this country. For someone flying into Tullamarine, that border is the immigration desk. They’re not going to be allowed to report back the next day, they’ll be held until a flight is available and despite you thinking that immigration officials are racist thugs, this rule is applied to everyone.

Nemo: You seriously believe the authorities would detain a bunch of (white) guys from Canada, the US or UK who had cash in a bank, plane tickets homeabout, visas (right or wrong), an itenerary etc because they are suspected of coming in looking for jobs? Cause I don’t. But if you can send me a link to a border security episode (sorry, dont watch it) where a white guy from the US, Canada or UK is bailed up for (not for being high, or suspected of smuggling drugs or having a huge criminal record, just a guy with a tourist visa being detained on suspician of planing to become an illegal immigrant) then ill change my mind.

This doesn’t appear to be about the fact the the guys were here to play music, it about them being suspected of planning to get jobs and stay here, just like the previous Malaysians that got detained.

“My point is not whether or not they broke the rules, I have stated that. I don’t think they would interrogate and detain an underground, low income band from the US, UK, Canada etc.”

Absolutely they would.

They aren’t flexing muscles, they are upholding the law, which is applicable to all.

And yes, Border Security is my favourite prime time viewing. Anything to see the Immigration department flex its’ grand muscles.

My point is not whether or not they broke the rules, I have stated that. I don’t think they would interrogate and detain an underground, low income band from the US, UK, Canada etc.

They did not have clearance to enter Australia. It is far better to give someone food and a bed for the night than leave them in an office for 24hrs.

A band with half a clue would have organised the appropriate visa. So you are correct, most bands from the US, UK and Canada would not have been detained.

However if one of these bands found themselves in the same situation, they most certainly would have been detained. It has nothing to do with nationality.

Do you not watch border security?

Nickamc said :

Upon a thorough re-read and a fair bit of thought, its a fair call for me to retract alot of my previous statements, as I mis-read the conditions of a tourist visa.

However, I still think it’s fair to say that this probably wouldn’t have happened to any underground band touring from the US, UK, Canada, etc… they certainly wouldn’t have been detained in a detention centre for the night. I just think they were somewhat hard done by.

Yes they would, the same way as artists like 50 Cent? (or someone similar) was denied a visa for entry into the country due to their record not complying with the requirements.

Nickamc said :

I have to admit, reading alot of these responses, I’m alarmed at the bigotry that is held in the opinions of some of the people that post here.

I posted this only to point out the fact that they were DETAINED. Can anyone here give a clear reason as to why they were detained? They had places to stay, people to stay with, proved the reasons they were here, so why were they shoved in a detention centre?

It’s obvious they made a mistake with their Visa’s, but I hardly think they deserve the gutless accusations that have been flung at them by commenters on this post.

You utter fool, it’s the law. It’s obvious from what you have written/copied that they had a tourist visa when they came here to work aka perform gigs which they were going to be paid for therefore they breached the conditions of their visa and are detained until the next available flight back home. Negligence is no defence for breaking the law either.

If you are to be deported and have no visa you don’t get let out to stay wherever just because you might have some money and someone to put you up, you get held either at the airport, at a police station or at a detention centre. It’s a free pass to freedom otherwise.. common sense.

I doubt we will be hearing from them during their three year exclusion from re-entering Australia either. I’ll keep an eye out on Border Security though!

Upon a thorough re-read and a fair bit of thought, its a fair call for me to retract alot of my previous statements, as I mis-read the conditions of a tourist visa.

However, I still think it’s fair to say that this probably wouldn’t have happened to any underground band touring from the US, UK, Canada, etc… they certainly wouldn’t have been detained in a detention centre for the night. I just think they were somewhat hard done by.

Nickamc – its not bigotry, its called the law.

The appropriate visa is a Subclass 420 Entertainment visa. http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/special-activity/420/index.htm

I imagine they were not let into Australia and had their visas cancelled at the airport, then transferred to the Detention centre next to the airport for return on the next available flight. So what if they were detained for 24 hrs? I’m sure they were looked after with a bed and food while waiting for their plane home.

They are whinging fools. You cannot expect to do play gigs on a tourist visa.

I have to admit, reading alot of these responses, I’m alarmed at the bigotry that is held in the opinions of some of the people that post here.

I posted this only to point out the fact that they were DETAINED. Can anyone here give a clear reason as to why they were detained? They had places to stay, people to stay with, proved the reasons they were here, so why were they shoved in a detention centre?

It’s obvious they made a mistake with their Visa’s, but I hardly think they deserve the gutless accusations that have been flung at them by commenters on this post.

They could have busked their way out of trouble, given Immigration at the aiport a little impromtu concert of Hardcore. Whatever that is. Sounds like a failed apple or something.

The writer has two problems:
1) He’s a musician, and therefore lying degenate filth in the eyes of The Man\Establishment.
2) He put Immigration in touch with his music promoter and expected the promoter to sort the mess he’s created.

It could probably only have gone worse if the writer had offered the Immigration Control officer cash to let them through.

Also from what the musician wrote the authorities weren’t concerned about the gigs, but about other work, same as some others just before them…

What on earth is this “hardcore” stuff anyway? Heavy Metal? Some kind of rap stuff?

Malasian Hardcore band, performing gigs (again where does it say paid? does unpaid gigs count as ‘work’?), with borrowed instruments! amps cost too much to take on planes yeah? Surely its fair enough to say that they were only going to do it for fun?

@p1:
Class 676 (Tourist) visas explicitly forbid anything income generating, and also anything related to the establishment, development, or management of business or income, including consultancy.

I havent got the slightest idea what class they should have applied for, though, but this Juzzy, in organising the tour, should have found out.

Re 24 hours in detention: the provisions of the Act allow for deportation “as soon as reasonably practical”

Malaysian Hardcore band….performing free gigs…..without instruments…..

I’m getting all teary just at the thought of having missed that.

Malaysian harcore band…LOL…should provide entertaining viewing on Border Security television show.

Ok so where does it say that they were going to get paid for the gigs? Also I truly doubt they would have bought many instruments with them.

I came to Australia and applied for a job while I was here, and then emigrated once I had an offer. Oops.

I suppose on account of I’m a 6ft Anglo and look quite mean when I’m carting around my weapons – I call them left hand and right hand – I was left alone at the checkpoints.

…or be reasonably expected to build their business while on tourist visas.

Is this in the wording of a tourist visa? and if it is, does it apply to musicians performing (assuming that it is unpaid)?

Either way, sounds like applying for a visa to work as an artist would have avoided all the hassle. Not sure why they were in detention for 24hr though. Don’t they just toss you back on a plane?

As strange as this may sound to the original poster, they were deported because they were going to break the conditions of their visas, and receive income or be reasonably expected to build their business while on tourist visas.

As evidence of the band’s misunderstanding, I submit the following quotes:
convince who they called the ‘decision maker’ (whoever that was…) that we were actual tourists

They then dug their hole deeper by:
gave them our friend Juzzy’s number who organized our tour. They called and told him that we explained he was going to find us jobs and they then told us that Juzzy explained he’s going to find us jobs!

There are immigration laws, they were not compliant with the process, so were dealt with.

Well, they’ll apply for the correct visa next time, won’t they.

There’s a short-term business activities visa available, that’s actually free. So there’s a bit of paperwork to go through, but it doesn’t cost.

It’s clear they were here to work (play gigs = work). I don’t know the details of immigration law, but it sounds like they had the wrong visa. Sorry guys – try again next time.

Reasonable doubt – ‘Daighila’ sounds like something they made up while stepping off the plane.

You can’t turn up as a group with a stack of musical instruments on tourist visas and not expect some questioning….

Tourist – means no work. Of any kind. Simple as that.

Were they tourists?

My understanding of the posted comment is that they arrived on a tourist visa yet wanted to do some work (ie, play some gigs). Is this within the scope of the visa?

Did these guys get appropriate visas for what they intended to do? I imagine it’d be the cultural activities type one.

Three words summarise this decision, and my disgust;
Window licking spastics.