Merging on and off the Monaro Highway - the back door manoeuvre

JC said :

bundah said :

Personally i would wait for the unbroken white line before i merged but if someone wanted to perform the backdoor manoeuvre on me i’d just flatten it and pull out in front of them even if that meant exceeding the speed limit which i would normally never ever do.. 🙂

Sometimes that is hard to do. Just the other day I was joining the Monaro highway city bound from Fyshwick. As I get to near the merge a B-double was coming along the highway. I couldn’t safely get in front so had to back off the juice to pull in behind. As the wheels of the rear trailer were passing me two cars from behind me pulled in behind the truck and left me basically stranded. No where to speed up and no where to pull in, so had to stop. Basically very inconsiderate of the dicks behind.

The only time i would have a problem with a B-Double in that situation would be if there were other vehicles in front of me preventing me from rapidly accelerating in front of the monstrosity.But even in your situation i would undoubtedly manoeuvre my vehicle in front of the arseholes for attempting to squeeze me out while merging!

JC said :

Masquara said :

JC said :

See this all the time unfortunately. Where I see it a lot is Parkes Way onto Commonwealth Ave, Woden bound where traffic from the City shouldn’t go to the left lane until after the Parkes Way on ramp (from the Fyshwick direction). Often I see cars doing that then making it hard for cars to join Commonwealth Ave. Another at the same intersection is cars coming off Parkes Way from the tunnel end then trying to move to the middle/left lanes straight away, this has got worse since they put in the form one lane there.
.

Yep. I always break the law and cross the thick white line there into the middle lane straight away when coming off London Circuit onto the bridge (heading south), so the people queuing to get onto Commonwealth Ave from Parkes Way (coming from Fyshwick direction) can do so and not have to wait for me to go past in the left lane. Actually it is altruism, because it can disadvantage me as I need to get back into that left lane to turn left off the bridge at the National Library.

Whilst that is most courtesy of you, have you ever stopped to think why they paint that nice thick white line on the road? Yep it is because they want you to stay in your lane, for what ever reason. Though in this case I do know why, far too many lines of traffic and merges all at once, so the line is a way of trying to cut out one extra permutation of cars fighting for the finite road space, giving time for the traffic to settle and the road to become simpler before allowing the two separate lines of cars to change lanes.

Every few weeks I see a near miss caused by someone doing what your doing, especially now there is an extra form one lane on the London Cct and Parkes way on-ramp to Commonwealth Ave.

This is one area that, as a cyclist, I love cars. People scream up that on/off ramp off Parkes way, its a tricky one to see what is going on hence the give way but people being people are impatient and just spear out in front of you as a cyclist.

Having a car there coming up behind you gives the drivers something bigger and easier to see & usually makes them stop.

Works a treat.

MS1710 said :

I am one of the drivers who does exactly what you complain about. I come from Banks, northbound, along Tharwa Drive, and go straight ahead in the left lane of the Tharwa Dr/Box Hill Ave roundabout while traffic coming out of Box Hill turns right to go north along Tharwa Drive.

There is no risk to either you, or I, as long as neither of us wanders out of our lane.

If we both stay in our lanes then there cannot possibly be a collision as at no point are either of us going to be occupying the same space at the same time. I will be in the left lane of the roundabout the whole time. You will be in the right lane the whole time. Frankly if either of us can’t negotiate the roundabout without wandering out of our lane then we should hand our licences in.

The alternative, for me, is that I have to wait for a gap in the right-turning traffic before I go straight ahead. This will needlessly delay me, and any traffic queuing up behind me.

The only real risk at play here is to me, if someone in the right lane indicating right in fact decides to go straight ahead (therefore crossing my path). This can happen; but it’s easy enough to spot as someone going straight will be travelling faster than someone who intends to go right and has to make a tighter, slower turn.

The only exception I make to this practice is when I am driving one of my cars which is 41 years old and several orders of magnitude less safe than any modern car. In that case it’s in the interests of my own personal safety that I wait for other traffic to clear as someone else’s mistake could cost me dearly. But I don’t drive that car in peak hour either for exactly that reason and people are pretty accommodating of a classic car being driven cautiously on a Sunday afternoon 🙂

Did you intentionally contradict yourself? 😛

Your old car may be less safe but if you don’t have side airbags in your newer car you are just as likely to be killed if someone plows into the side of you. Side airbags are not the be all to end all either, they just reduce the balance of probability.

JC said :

Oh so they are coming from your left going straight through but going to the same exit as you? The end result is the same though, they CAN do that provided they are in the left lane. Your right of way is to the centre lane, because your turning right, the left lane is free for them to enter and do as they please.

That is correct (about the position of the cars) but the rule doesn’t actually say they can do it because the other car is in another lane but it does say you must give way.

Earlier in the rules about roundabouts it talks about being able to change lanes within that roundabout provided there is a broken line. To me (& I deal with legislation on a daily basis) it looks like the intent of the rule is for a car negotiating the roundabout to have the right of way.

It would be interesting to get a lawmakers view, I wonder if there is anything in the RIS or the parliamentary documents that show intent.

bundah said :

Personally i would wait for the unbroken white line before i merged but if someone wanted to perform the backdoor manoeuvre on me i’d just flatten it and pull out in front of them even if that meant exceeding the speed limit which i would normally never ever do.. 🙂

Sometimes that is hard to do. Just the other day I was joining the Monaro highway city bound from Fyshwick. As I get to near the merge a B-double was coming along the highway. I couldn’t safely get in front so had to back off the juice to pull in behind. As the wheels of the rear trailer were passing me two cars from behind me pulled in behind the truck and left me basically stranded. No where to speed up and no where to pull in, so had to stop. Basically very inconsiderate of the dicks behind.

Masquara said :

JC said :

See this all the time unfortunately. Where I see it a lot is Parkes Way onto Commonwealth Ave, Woden bound where traffic from the City shouldn’t go to the left lane until after the Parkes Way on ramp (from the Fyshwick direction). Often I see cars doing that then making it hard for cars to join Commonwealth Ave. Another at the same intersection is cars coming off Parkes Way from the tunnel end then trying to move to the middle/left lanes straight away, this has got worse since they put in the form one lane there.
.

Yep. I always break the law and cross the thick white line there into the middle lane straight away when coming off London Circuit onto the bridge (heading south), so the people queuing to get onto Commonwealth Ave from Parkes Way (coming from Fyshwick direction) can do so and not have to wait for me to go past in the left lane. Actually it is altruism, because it can disadvantage me as I need to get back into that left lane to turn left off the bridge at the National Library.

Whilst that is most courtesy of you, have you ever stopped to think why they paint that nice thick white line on the road? Yep it is because they want you to stay in your lane, for what ever reason. Though in this case I do know why, far too many lines of traffic and merges all at once, so the line is a way of trying to cut out one extra permutation of cars fighting for the finite road space, giving time for the traffic to settle and the road to become simpler before allowing the two separate lines of cars to change lanes.

Every few weeks I see a near miss caused by someone doing what your doing, especially now there is an extra form one lane on the London Cct and Parkes way on-ramp to Commonwealth Ave.

screaming banshee said :

As I understand it the rules have always been that way, they just republished them to raise awareness amongst the numpty majority

In the ACT they have been that for as long as I remember, but in NSW they standardised on the national rules just last year, prior to that there was no compulsion to indicate on exit. Now it is the law, of course with the caveat “unless it is not practical to do so”. Guess most people even in the ACT thing it is not practical to do so.

Personally i would wait for the unbroken white line before i merged but if someone wanted to perform the backdoor manoeuvre on me i’d just flatten it and pull out in front of them even if that meant exceeding the speed limit which i would normally never ever do.. 🙂

JC said :

See this all the time unfortunately. Where I see it a lot is Parkes Way onto Commonwealth Ave, Woden bound where traffic from the City shouldn’t go to the left lane until after the Parkes Way on ramp (from the Fyshwick direction). Often I see cars doing that then making it hard for cars to join Commonwealth Ave. Another at the same intersection is cars coming off Parkes Way from the tunnel end then trying to move to the middle/left lanes straight away, this has got worse since they put in the form one lane there.
.

Yep. I always break the law and cross the thick white line there into the middle lane straight away when coming off London Circuit onto the bridge (heading south), so the people queuing to get onto Commonwealth Ave from Parkes Way (coming from Fyshwick direction) can do so and not have to wait for me to go past in the left lane. Actually it is altruism, because it can disadvantage me as I need to get back into that left lane to turn left off the bridge at the National Library.

The key to merging is firstly to travel at the same speed as the cars you’re about to merge with and if need be assertively force your way in.This should only be necessary if the vehicles you’re about to merge with are essentially tailgating which is both stupid and illegal not to mention inconsiderate of the fact that one needs to share the road not own it.Of course that’s easy for someone with my experience and confidence to accomplish however many are too timid and not as competent so they often stop and wait for a gap.

As I understand it the rules have always been that way, they just republished them to raise awareness amongst the numpty majority

NoImRight said :

MissChief said :

“So, should I continue obeying the law and merge when the line change to dashes, or do I go against my very core, and merge as soon as possible…” OMG call the waaaaaaaambulance, FarrerGirl has clearly led a very sheltered life. I’m PMPL at the write up of this classic example of a first world problem, rocking her inner core.

Maybe save your next post until you have an original thought to add? Virtually any problem here can be labeled a first world problem. Its really only a relevent comment depending on the level of drama the OP may add to their problem. In this case not much.

You just look like a first world drone regurgitating comments youve read others use.

Thanks for that original and thought provoking advice, hope you don’t mind me quoting you.

Alderney said :

JC what is this ‘law change’ of which you speak?

“Seen many NSW registered vehicles in particular, especially since the ‘law’ change in NSW recently (which made the indicating law what it has been in the ACT for a long time) indicate right on approach but go straight through”.

To do this and crash in to another vehicle would render one at fault. But only if there were witnesses to attest to one’s indication faulure.

I hope you jest/have tongue in cheek etc.

No I wasn’t jesting. The rules changed in November 2012. Like I said though it is just making them the same as ACT anyway, which is if you are turning left indicate left on approach and on exit, going straight on, no indicator on approach, left indicator on exit. Turning right, indicate right on approach, left on exit.

Now not sure why, but many seem to think the rule is to indicate right on entry even if going straight through. My old man lives in Newcastle and was doing that, saying that was the new rule, which it isn’t.

Have a look at the link below if you don’t beleive me as some other rules were also tweaked.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/usingroads/roadrules/index.html

Proboscus said :

My biggest gripe about the Monaro Highway is that Canberrans can’t observe the simplest of rules – KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING.

If you want to drive slower than the sign posted speed limit – fine, stay in the left lane.

End of rant.

This is one of my biggest gripes too! I’d particularly like to aim the rant at those folks who insist on this along Adelaide Av driving their white VW Golfs – you can pick them a mile off yet they continue to drive the entire length of the road oblivious to others around them.

JC what is this ‘law change’ of which you speak?

“Seen many NSW registered vehicles in particular, especially since the ‘law’ change in NSW recently (which made the indicating law what it has been in the ACT for a long time) indicate right on approach but go straight through”.

To do this and crash in to another vehicle would render one at fault. But only if there were witnesses to attest to one’s indication faulure.

I hope you jest/have tongue in cheek etc.

MissChief said :

“So, should I continue obeying the law and merge when the line change to dashes, or do I go against my very core, and merge as soon as possible…” OMG call the waaaaaaaambulance, FarrerGirl has clearly lead a very sheltered life. I’m PMPL at the write up of this classic example of a first world problem, rocking her inner core.

Maybe save your next post until you have an original thought to add? Virtually any problem here can be labeled a first world problem. Its really only a relevent comment depending on the level of drama the OP may add to their problem. In this case not much.

You just look like a first world drone regurgitating comments youve read others use.

JC said :

Personally I this isn’t something I would do simply because I wouldn’t trust that a car indicating right is actually going to turn right.

I agree. I have seen a lot of people who don’t seem to understand that ‘indicate on exit’ doesn’t mean ‘randomly use all indicators when negotiating a roundabout’.

Personally I feel the safest option is to assume that all the other drivers on the road are out to kill you, and act accordingly. 😛

KB1971 said :

Take this morning for example, I am in a line of three cars, there was no traffic built up from the south towards Banks but the one car that was there sailed through at about 60km/h in the left lane despite someone trurning right at the same time.

That car is putting both drivers at risk.

I agree with you on the judgement call on the give way thing, it is impractical to give way to all cars on any position of the roundabout, especially where there is no affect on the other vehicles but where there is the potential to be an affect then people need to take more care.

Anyway, its academic, it wont stop & there have been no real accidents from it surprisingly.

I am one of the drivers who does exactly what you complain about. I come from Banks, northbound, along Tharwa Drive, and go straight ahead in the left lane of the Tharwa Dr/Box Hill Ave roundabout while traffic coming out of Box Hill turns right to go north along Tharwa Drive.

There is no risk to either you, or I, as long as neither of us wanders out of our lane.

If we both stay in our lanes then there cannot possibly be a collision as at no point are either of us going to be occupying the same space at the same time. I will be in the left lane of the roundabout the whole time. You will be in the right lane the whole time. Frankly if either of us can’t negotiate the roundabout without wandering out of our lane then we should hand our licences in.

The alternative, for me, is that I have to wait for a gap in the right-turning traffic before I go straight ahead. This will needlessly delay me, and any traffic queuing up behind me.

The only real risk at play here is to me, if someone in the right lane indicating right in fact decides to go straight ahead (therefore crossing my path). This can happen; but it’s easy enough to spot as someone going straight will be travelling faster than someone who intends to go right and has to make a tighter, slower turn.

The only exception I make to this practice is when I am driving one of my cars which is 41 years old and several orders of magnitude less safe than any modern car. In that case it’s in the interests of my own personal safety that I wait for other traffic to clear as someone else’s mistake could cost me dearly. But I don’t drive that car in peak hour either for exactly that reason and people are pretty accommodating of a classic car being driven cautiously on a Sunday afternoon 🙂

My biggest gripe about the Monaro Highway is that Canberrans can’t observe the simplest of rules – KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING.

If you want to drive slower than the sign posted speed limit – fine, stay in the left lane.

End of rant.

KB1971 said :

JC said :

That is indeed the rule, but take a close look at note two that defines give way: That is a driver must slow down and stop to avoid a collision. Now if my understanding is right you are turning right they are turning left from opposite directions. Now because you are in the middle lane and the cars, as I follow it are turning in the left from the left lane there is no risk of collision, hence no need to give way to you even if you are already on the roundabout.

Now if it was a roundabout where cars can turn right from both left and right lanes (and there are a few around) and you were in the left lane then yes there would be a risk of collision so they would have to give way in the case. What happens after the roundabout is a separate issue.

Now if you took give way to any vehicle already on the roundabout in isolation then you would only ever have one vehicle on the roundabou. For example it would be against the law for cars travelling straight through in opposite directions to both enter even though there is zero risk of collision. But when read with the note that defines giveway as stop if there is a risk of collision then it makes sense.

No the other vehicles are not turning left, I dont really have an issue with that. Its the ones that continue straight through and follow the same direction as I am once we are out of the roundabout. They are coming from my immediate left as I am turning right.

Take this morning for example, I am in a line of three cars, there was no traffic built up from the south towards Banks but the one car that was there sailed through at about 60km/h in the left lane despite someone trurning right at the same time.

That car is putting both drivers at risk.

I agree with you on the judgement call on the give way thing, it is impractical to give way to all cars on any position of the roundabout, especially where there is no affect on the other vehicles but where there is the potential to be an affect then people need to take more care.

Anyway, its academic, it wont stop & there have been no real accidents from it surprisingly.

Oh so they are coming from your left going straight through but going to the same exit as you? The end result is the same though, they CAN do that provided they are in the left lane. Your right of way is to the centre lane, because your turning right, the left lane is free for them to enter and do as they please.

Personally I this isn’t something I would do simply because I wouldn’t trust that a car indicating right is actually going to turn right. Seen many NSW registered vehicles in particular, especially since the ‘law’ change in NSW recently (which made the indicating law what it has been in the ACT for a long time) indicate right on approach but go straight through. So not worth the risk.

Mothy said :

I see a lot of this on Gungahlin Drive, Northbound, as you merge on from Ginninderra Drive. Though that one is a particularly long merge lane, with some people seemingly believing you need to travel to the end of it before merging (despite the broken line section being quite long).

That is the problem Mothy, there is big difference between merging at a form one lane point or being required to give way to the main flow of traffic at a broken line. The intersction you are speaking of is not a merging point.

JC said :

That is indeed the rule, but take a close look at note two that defines give way: That is a driver must slow down and stop to avoid a collision. Now if my understanding is right you are turning right they are turning left from opposite directions. Now because you are in the middle lane and the cars, as I follow it are turning in the left from the left lane there is no risk of collision, hence no need to give way to you even if you are already on the roundabout.

Now if it was a roundabout where cars can turn right from both left and right lanes (and there are a few around) and you were in the left lane then yes there would be a risk of collision so they would have to give way in the case. What happens after the roundabout is a separate issue.

Now if you took give way to any vehicle already on the roundabout in isolation then you would only ever have one vehicle on the roundabou. For example it would be against the law for cars travelling straight through in opposite directions to both enter even though there is zero risk of collision. But when read with the note that defines giveway as stop if there is a risk of collision then it makes sense.

No the other vehicles are not turning left, I dont really have an issue with that. Its the ones that continue straight through and follow the same direction as I am once we are out of the roundabout. They are coming from my immediate left as I am turning right.

Take this morning for example, I am in a line of three cars, there was no traffic built up from the south towards Banks but the one car that was there sailed through at about 60km/h in the left lane despite someone trurning right at the same time.

That car is putting both drivers at risk.

I agree with you on the judgement call on the give way thing, it is impractical to give way to all cars on any position of the roundabout, especially where there is no affect on the other vehicles but where there is the potential to be an affect then people need to take more care.

Anyway, its academic, it wont stop & there have been no real accidents from it surprisingly.

FarrerGirl said :

EvanJames said :

MissChief said :

“So, should I continue obeying the law and merge when the line change to dashes, or do I go against my very core, and merge as soon as possible…” OMG call the waaaaaaaambulance, FarrerGirl has clearly lead a very sheltered life. I’m PMPL at the write up of this classic example of a first world problem, rocking her inner core.

Whoops 🙂

This was a bit of a tongue in cheek comment. I work in a pretty hard core medical job and sometimes it just easier to ponder something simple like this rather than life and death issues.

EvanJames said :

MissChief said :

“So, should I continue obeying the law and merge when the line change to dashes, or do I go against my very core, and merge as soon as possible…” OMG call the waaaaaaaambulance, FarrerGirl has clearly lead a very sheltered life. I’m PMPL at the write up of this classic example of a first world problem, rocking her inner core.

This was a bit of a tongue in cheek comment. I work in a pretty hard core medical job and sometimes it just easier to ponder something simple this rather than life and death issues.

EvanJames said :

MissChief said :

“So, should I continue obeying the law and merge when the line change to dashes, or do I go against my very core, and merge as soon as possible…” OMG call the waaaaaaaambulance, FarrerGirl has clearly lead a very sheltered life. I’m PMPL at the write up of this classic example of a first world problem, rocking her inner core.

You forgot to tell her to eat some concrete to harden up, and to build a bridge and get over it, and to talk to the hand, and YOLO, and (insert trite moronic cliche` here).

LOL exactly.

peebus said :

JC said :

If I understand what your saying they are actually quite within their rights to go as they are not taking your right of way. Basically I am assuming multi-lane roundabout in, multi-lane out with you turning right from the right lane. In that case as you are going around the roundabout you will be in the centre lane and on exit you just exit in the right hand lane. In that case there is nothing stopping a car coming from the opposite direction in the left lane turning left into the left lane. They are not taking your right away, as your right is to the right hand lane. If you want to get into the left lane after the exit then you must give way to any vehicle in the left lane.

Finally someone who understands! Especially in peak hours, people who just sit there waiting to turn left drive me nuts. It isn’t impeding anybody, and its a legal manoeuvre. I don’t see why this it so difficult to understand.
Also, most multi-lane round-abouts in the ACT either have a Form One Lane, or a solid line on all their exits, so people in the right lane wanting to move left can’t do so immediately anyway.

+1. The lack of some peoples’ understanding and skill relating to driving is just remarkable. I don’t know how some of these people manage to dress themselves in the morning.

KB1971 said :

The way I read it, anyone entering must give way to any vehicle on the roundabout:

114 Giving way when entering or driving in a
roundabout
(1) A driver entering a roundabout must give way to:
(a) any vehicle in the roundabout; and
(b) a tram that is entering or approaching the roundabout.
Offence provision.
Note 1 Tram is defined in the dictionary.
Note 2 For this rule, give way means the driver must slow down and, if
necessary, stop to avoid a collision — see the definition in the
dictionary.
(2) A driver driving in a roundabout must give way to a tram
that is in, entering or approaching the roundabout.
Offence provision.

I could not find any other sub-rules affecting this rule. Pretty well all the other intersection negotiation rules dont apply to roundabouts.

That is indeed the rule, but take a close look at note two that defines give way: That is a driver must slow down and stop to avoid a collision. Now if my understanding is right you are turning right they are turning left from opposite directions. Now because you are in the middle lane and the cars, as I follow it are turning in the left from the left lane there is no risk of collision, hence no need to give way to you even if you are already on the roundabout.

Now if it was a roundabout where cars can turn right from both left and right lanes (and there are a few around) and you were in the left lane then yes there would be a risk of collision so they would have to give way in the case. What happens after the roundabout is a separate issue.

Now if you took give way to any vehicle already on the roundabout in isolation then you would only ever have one vehicle on the roundabou. For example it would be against the law for cars travelling straight through in opposite directions to both enter even though there is zero risk of collision. But when read with the note that defines giveway as stop if there is a risk of collision then it makes sense.

Pork Hunt said :

[
Two lanes means it’s good for two cars I reckon. The car in the left lane can’t cut across and the car in the right can’t swing wide.

The ARR’s give some examples, if both cars are travelling in the same direction, no dramas, if the car in the left lane is turning left & car in the right lane is continuing or turning right no dramas either.

But if a vehicle is on the roundabout & the approaching vehicle has not entered the roundabout then the approaching vehicle must give way, it doesn’t seem to differentiate between lanes when talking about giving way.

Its just a PITA at this roundabout because the hold up is not that much & people are really aggressive & wont let you in when you you want to get into the left lane after completing the turn.

I don’t know what it is but everybody seems to be doing a million miles an hour in this section of road in the morning & push & barge their way around. Once you hit Bonython it all settles down.

MissChief said :

“So, should I continue obeying the law and merge when the line change to dashes, or do I go against my very core, and merge as soon as possible…” OMG call the waaaaaaaambulance, FarrerGirl has clearly lead a very sheltered life. I’m PMPL at the write up of this classic example of a first world problem, rocking her inner core.

You forgot to tell her to eat some concrete to harden up, and to build a bridge and get over it, and to talk to the hand, and YOLO, and (insert trite moronic cliche` here).

“So, should I continue obeying the law and merge when the line change to dashes, or do I go against my very core, and merge as soon as possible…” OMG call the waaaaaaaambulance, FarrerGirl has clearly lead a very sheltered life. I’m PMPL at the write up of this classic example of a first world problem, rocking her inner core.

KB1971 said :

JC said :

KB1971 said :

A slightly differnt bit of impatience happens at the roundabout at the Lanyon Shops. If I am turning right to head to Tuggers, people coming up from the south in the left lane think they dont have to give way, its a PITA if you have not finished negotiating the roundabout & then want to move into the left lane when you have.

I usually pass a great deal of these people at the next roundabout because eveybody has moved into the right lane.

If I understand what your saying they are actually quite within their rights to go as they are not taking your right of way. Basically I am assuming multi-lane roundabout in, multi-lane out with you turning right from the right lane. In that case as you are going around the roundabout you will be in the centre lane and on exit you just exit in the right hand lane. In that case there is nothing stopping a car coming from the opposite direction in the left lane turning left into the left lane. They are not taking your right away, as your right is to the right hand lane. If you want to get into the left lane after the exit then you must give way to any vehicle in the left lane.

These cars are travelling straight from south to the north while I am turning right to head north from the east, so as I am negotiating the roundabout I have this car travelling on my left in my blind spot while I am trying to complete the turn.

My understanding of the roundabout rules is that any car approaching a roundabout has to give way to any car on the roundabout.

I am going to have a look.

Two lanes means it’s good for two cars I reckon. The car in the left lane can’t cut across and the car in the right can’t swing wide.

JC said :

If I understand what your saying they are actually quite within their rights to go as they are not taking your right of way. Basically I am assuming multi-lane roundabout in, multi-lane out with you turning right from the right lane. In that case as you are going around the roundabout you will be in the centre lane and on exit you just exit in the right hand lane. In that case there is nothing stopping a car coming from the opposite direction in the left lane turning left into the left lane. They are not taking your right away, as your right is to the right hand lane. If you want to get into the left lane after the exit then you must give way to any vehicle in the left lane.

Finally someone who understands! Especially in peak hours, people who just sit there waiting to turn left drive me nuts. It isn’t impeding anybody, and its a legal manoeuvre. I don’t see why this it so difficult to understand.
Also, most multi-lane round-abouts in the ACT either have a Form One Lane, or a solid line on all their exits, so people in the right lane wanting to move left can’t do so immediately anyway.

The way I read it, anyone entering must give way to any vehicle on the roundabout:

114 Giving way when entering or driving in a
roundabout
(1) A driver entering a roundabout must give way to:
(a) any vehicle in the roundabout; and
(b) a tram that is entering or approaching the roundabout.
Offence provision.
Note 1 Tram is defined in the dictionary.
Note 2 For this rule, give way means the driver must slow down and, if
necessary, stop to avoid a collision — see the definition in the
dictionary.
(2) A driver driving in a roundabout must give way to a tram
that is in, entering or approaching the roundabout.
Offence provision.

I could not find any other sub-rules affecting this rule. Pretty well all the other intersection negotiation rules dont apply to roundabouts.

JC said :

KB1971 said :

A slightly differnt bit of impatience happens at the roundabout at the Lanyon Shops. If I am turning right to head to Tuggers, people coming up from the south in the left lane think they dont have to give way, its a PITA if you have not finished negotiating the roundabout & then want to move into the left lane when you have.

I usually pass a great deal of these people at the next roundabout because eveybody has moved into the right lane.

If I understand what your saying they are actually quite within their rights to go as they are not taking your right of way. Basically I am assuming multi-lane roundabout in, multi-lane out with you turning right from the right lane. In that case as you are going around the roundabout you will be in the centre lane and on exit you just exit in the right hand lane. In that case there is nothing stopping a car coming from the opposite direction in the left lane turning left into the left lane. They are not taking your right away, as your right is to the right hand lane. If you want to get into the left lane after the exit then you must give way to any vehicle in the left lane.

These cars are travelling straight from south to the north while I am turning right to head north from the east, so as I am negotiating the roundabout I have this car travelling on my left in my blind spot while I am trying to complete the turn.

My understanding of the roundabout rules is that any car approaching a roundabout has to give way to any car on the roundabout.

I am going to have a look.

KB1971 said :

A slightly differnt bit of impatience happens at the roundabout at the Lanyon Shops. If I am turning right to head to Tuggers, people coming up from the south in the left lane think they dont have to give way, its a PITA if you have not finished negotiating the roundabout & then want to move into the left lane when you have.

I usually pass a great deal of these people at the next roundabout because eveybody has moved into the right lane.

If I understand what your saying they are actually quite within their rights to go as they are not taking your right of way. Basically I am assuming multi-lane roundabout in, multi-lane out with you turning right from the right lane. In that case as you are going around the roundabout you will be in the centre lane and on exit you just exit in the right hand lane. In that case there is nothing stopping a car coming from the opposite direction in the left lane turning left into the left lane. They are not taking your right away, as your right is to the right hand lane. If you want to get into the left lane after the exit then you must give way to any vehicle in the left lane.

A slightly differnt bit of impatience happens at the roundabout at the Lanyon Shops. If I am turning right to head to Tuggers, people coming up from the south in the left lane think they dont have to give way, its a PITA if you have not finished negotiating the roundabout & then want to move into the left lane when you have.

I usually pass a great deal of these people at the next roundabout because eveybody has moved into the right lane.

See this all the time unfortunately. Where I see it a lot is Parkes Way onto Commonwealth Ave, Woden bound where traffic from the City shouldn’t go to the left lane until after the Parkes Way on ramp (from the Fyshwick direction). Often I see cars doing that then making it hard for cars to join Commonwealth Ave. Another at the same intersection is cars coming off Parkes Way from the tunnel end then trying to move to the middle/left lanes straight away, this has got worse since they put in the form one lane there.

The one similar thing that shits me to tears though is at a set of lights where a car turning left has, quite rightly stopped to give way to the cars coming along the ‘main’ road and then when there is a safe gap for them some dick from behind has pulled out and is overtaking them, thus meaning the first car has no chance to get out themselves. I really wonder what the cars behind are thinking. Worse still though are cars turning left who then think they have every right to just merge straight in, regardless of the traffic flow, the rule with these types of merge, ie where you have to cross a broken line is the car crossing MUST give way, as opposed to the normal form one lanes where it is essentially front car has right of way.

Dear OP,

Please, just get a move on. You may not think there’s anything wrong with your driving and your marginal merging, but because you accelerate so slowly and then sit just under the speed limit, you’re disrupting the flow of traffic. You’re locking up all the drivers behind you who also have to merge into full-speed traffic. You’re putting the rest of us in the position of having to almost stop in an 80kmh merging lane to let the full-speed traffic go past simply because you refuse to get a move on. I wouldn’t expect you to ever think of this, because your driving shows you have no consideration for others. Just like if you were driving on the Monaro approaching the Hindmarsh merging lane, you wouldn’t move over to the right lane to give the Hindmarsh mergers a free lane. No, you’d stay in the left lane. Just like Moorshead Drive/Parkes Way and the drivers who merge from Kings Avenue, or Kings Ave and drivers merging from King Edward Terrace, or any f#cker driving in the left lane of Northbourne Avenue.

I frequently and proudly use this maneuver because I am sick and tired of clowns dawdling, sitting on 55 in a 60 zone, or 75 in an 80 zone, and taking so long to do anything that the drivers behind have to stop and disrupt the flow of traffic all because you’re too selfish to pump the pedal just a teeny bit when merging. Maintaining the flow of traffic actually makes it safer. It’s not that those behind you are impatient, rather, it’s that you just don’t get it.

And to those of you who will inevitably say that I’m a hoon, a goon, and a prick, I say that RA is chock-full of posts and comments about the terrible standard of Canberra driving. The rest of the country has worked it out – even Tasmania – but a bunch of narcoleptic bozos here in the ACT haven’t. So disagree all you like, but I love this maneuver and will continue using it frequently as I suffer your ‘blind grandma’ driving technique.

Ummm, at what point did I say I drove slowly – I merge with the flow of traffic – even if that means speeding to get into the flow.

Dear OP,

Please, just get a move on. You may not think there’s anything wrong with your driving and your marginal merging, but because you accelerate so slowly and then sit just under the speed limit, you’re disrupting the flow of traffic. You’re locking up all the drivers behind you who also have to merge into full-speed traffic. You’re putting the rest of us in the position of having to almost stop in an 80kmh merging lane to let the full-speed traffic go past simply because you refuse to get a move on. I wouldn’t expect you to ever think of this, because your driving shows you have no consideration for others. Just like if you were driving on the Monaro approaching the Hindmarsh merging lane, you wouldn’t move over to the right lane to give the Hindmarsh mergers a free lane. No, you’d stay in the left lane. Just like Moorshead Drive/Parkes Way and the drivers who merge from Kings Avenue, or Kings Ave and drivers merging from King Edward Terrace, or any f#cker driving in the left lane of Northbourne Avenue.

I frequently and proudly use this maneuver because I am sick and tired of clowns dawdling, sitting on 55 in a 60 zone, or 75 in an 80 zone, and taking so long to do anything that the drivers behind have to stop and disrupt the flow of traffic all because you’re too selfish to pump the pedal just a teeny bit when merging. Maintaining the flow of traffic actually makes it safer. It’s not that those behind you are impatient, rather, it’s that you just don’t get it.

And to those of you who will inevitably say that I’m a hoon, a goon, and a prick, I say that RA is chock-full of posts and comments about the terrible standard of Canberra driving. The rest of the country has worked it out – even Tasmania – but a bunch of narcoleptic bozos here in the ACT haven’t. So disagree all you like, but I love this maneuver and will continue using it frequently as I suffer your ‘blind grandma’ driving technique.

Good to see you are at least open about your law breaking habits.

Dear OP,

Please, just get a move on. You may not think there’s anything wrong with your driving and your marginal merging, but because you accelerate so slowly and then sit just under the speed limit, you’re disrupting the flow of traffic. You’re locking up all the drivers behind you who also have to merge into full-speed traffic. You’re putting the rest of us in the position of having to almost stop in an 80kmh merging lane to let the full-speed traffic go past simply because you refuse to get a move on. I wouldn’t expect you to ever think of this, because your driving shows you have no consideration for others. Just like if you were driving on the Monaro approaching the Hindmarsh merging lane, you wouldn’t move over to the right lane to give the Hindmarsh mergers a free lane. No, you’d stay in the left lane. Just like Moorshead Drive/Parkes Way and the drivers who merge from Kings Avenue, or Kings Ave and drivers merging from King Edward Terrace, or any f#cker driving in the left lane of Northbourne Avenue.

I frequently and proudly use this maneuver because I am sick and tired of clowns dawdling, sitting on 55 in a 60 zone, or 75 in an 80 zone, and taking so long to do anything that the drivers behind have to stop and disrupt the flow of traffic all because you’re too selfish to pump the pedal just a teeny bit when merging. Maintaining the flow of traffic actually makes it safer. It’s not that those behind you are impatient, rather, it’s that you just don’t get it.

And to those of you who will inevitably say that I’m a hoon, a goon, and a prick, I say that RA is chock-full of posts and comments about the terrible standard of Canberra driving. The rest of the country has worked it out – even Tasmania – but a bunch of narcoleptic bozos here in the ACT haven’t. So disagree all you like, but I love this maneuver and will continue using it frequently as I suffer your ‘blind grandma’ driving technique.

Your attempt at being awesome on the internet just fizzled. Maybe pick a topic where youve read the OP and can actually add something. As for being “a hoon, a goon, and a prick” you would no doubt see this as a badge of honour as you work to bring down the establishment and challenge the stuffed shirts with your truth bombs.

Very Busy said :

Please, just get a move on. You may not think there’s anything wrong with your driving and your marginal merging, but because you accelerate so slowly and then sit just under the speed limit, you’re disrupting the flow of traffic.

Perhaps you could have another go at reading the original post.

Do you really think that would make a difference?

Interestingly, I never see this on Adelaide Ave aside from the occasional moron that transits between the Deakin on-ramp and the Kent St exit in the bike lane, often for no discernable reason. That said, I’m always conscious of matching my merging speed to the flow of traffic, so take from that what you will.

Despite being very nearly cleaned up last week by a combination of a slow merger in front and an inattentive speeder in the left lane, I still don’t think that this behaviour is justified – all it does is turn a tricky situation into a genuinely dangerous one.

Please, just get a move on. You may not think there’s anything wrong with your driving and your marginal merging, but because you accelerate so slowly and then sit just under the speed limit, you’re disrupting the flow of traffic.

Perhaps you could have another go at reading the original post.

Very Busy said :

The lack of enforcement of the vast majority of road rules results in an increase in this behaviour and encourages normally sensible and polite people to give up in disgust and join the ranks of the rude, obnoxious, ignorant and arrogant types..

Have to admit – eventually I stopped being the good guy and started merging across the solid line. As much as it bothered me to do it, I had to because the proportion of people obeying that particular road rule dropped so low that it became dangerous to try to change lanes legally. People who moved across early (especially the ones who were so impatient they drove along cycle lanes to get into the exit lane) tended to speed up, and pulling out of nearly-stationary traffic into a lane of people who weren’t happy about anyone merging in front of them was just asking for an accident. I didn’t speed up like many others did though, and drew the line at crossing the solid line only (ie not driving over grass or cycle lanes). As for the OP, unfortunately you have to balance “the right thing” and “the safe thing”, and make a call based on that. But you might be able to make the best of the situation, as I was able to (after moving over early I’d drive down the exit lane slowly and would slow down further to let in other people who wanted to legally merge into the lane).

As for the lack of enforcement of road rules, I don’t think that people should be following the road rules just because they’re afraid of being booked. I’ve seen that approach fail in the past anyway – quite a few people were illegally turning left from the right hand lane of the roundabout leaving the suburb I live in, and while the police did sometimes come and monitor the intersection, booking the odd person who did the wrong thing, most people obeyed the rules when the police were visible, but would return to breaking the rules the next day when the police weren’t there. It’s a problem with the attitudes of many drivers who are too impatient to obey road rules if it means it will delay them for a few seconds.

Your post has highlighted a significant reason that our roads are seeing an increase in illegal, obnoxious and arrogant behaviour.

The lack of enforcement of the vast majority of road rules results in an increase in this behaviour and encourages normally sensible and polite people to give up in disgust and join the ranks of the rude, obnoxious, ignorant and arrogant types.

I hold out no hope of the situation improving anytime soon. I saw a highly marked police Falcon on Beazley Street last Thursday night driving with fog lights on and I also recently saw a Mercedes sedan use the bus only lane at the Yamba Drive roundabout as it drove straight past and was ignored by a police car doing RAPID checks.

Regardless of safety, many road rules serve to provide and encourage courteous driving. As these laws become ignored by more and more motorists, the shocking skills and attitudes are only going to get worse.

I used to see this a lot heading north on the Monaro with people exiting onto Canberra Avenue. This was before the Monaro duplication and I was traveling in morning peak traffic (so traffic was at a standstill along that stretch), so you wouldn’t be merging into the off-lane at the speed limit, you’d be doing it from rolling speeds at best. It was very frustrating though – trying to move into the exit lane legally meant I had to try to get out amongst people who were going much faster (as many would speed up a great deal in the exit lane), having driven over the solid line and in some cases also the on-road cycle lanes and a bit of grass, just to avoid a few seconds wait. It’s dangerous and unnecessary, not to mention really rude. Unless you’re an emergency services vehicle responding to a callout, you can wait a few seconds to move over legally like everyone else. Over the years I saw a few cars pulled over on the side of the road along that stretch – without witnessing the incidents it’s hard to say for sure, but often the damage seemed consistent with someone being hit while trying to move into the exit lane. It would be interesting to find out just how many accidents are caused by people not merging legally, although I can’t imagine it would change people’s behaviour if it did turn out to be a risky thing to be doing – sadly it seems that an increasing number of drivers are becoming less polite and more impatient and aggressive.

Same thing happens Kingsford Smith Drive and Ginninderra Drive.
Ticks me off becuase you line up ready after all the traffic light congestion has passed and because you’re at the front of the merge lane you have to wait for all the idiots who have come from behind you over the line.

More then often they shoot straight over to the far right lane and I speed up next to them in the left hand and give them a bird!

Dilandach said :

I’ve also seen many many times in the same area, people entering in the roundabout on the inside lane to turn right into the costco section (coming from the airport) they’ll merge into the outside lane before exiting the roundabout so they don’t have to change lanes later on.

Frustrates the hell out of me when I’m exiting the roundabout and about to change lanes when I see that the car that was behind me is now in the left lane trying to overtake me as I’ve barely exited the roundabout.

It’s very frustrating and a lot of folk on here are big fans of the back door or trades men’s entrance

I see a lot of this on Gungahlin Drive, Northbound, as you merge on from Ginninderra Drive. Though that one is a particularly long merge lane, with some people seemingly believing you need to travel to the end of it before merging (despite the broken line section being quite long).

I’ve also seen many many times in the same area, people entering in the roundabout on the inside lane to turn right into the costco section (coming from the airport) they’ll merge into the outside lane before exiting the roundabout so they don’t have to change lanes later on.

Frustrates the hell out of me when I’m exiting the roundabout and about to change lanes when I see that the car that was behind me is now in the left lane trying to overtake me as I’ve barely exited the roundabout.