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Mormon Missionaries – A Religious Irony

By John Hargreaves 16 September 2014 40

knocking-on-door-stock-150914

I was reading a story about a poor lady who got hit by a car and was trapped under it. Some hero rescued her and all is well.

She was described as a missionary from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (read Mormons)
So let’s think about her mission in life. It is like the Jehovah Witnesses and Sallies who come to the door to give you literature and bless your house or introduce you to the Lord and save your miserable souls.

The Jews, Anglicans, Catholics Uniting Church and Baptists actually do it in their own buildings and you have to go to them (with which I have no problem cos I don’t).

We all have our own ways of dealing with these itinerant proselytisers. Some of us slam the door in their faces; some of us listen patiently, tell a lie about being in another church, some of us politely say “no thanks” and some of us ask them in and discuss the matter.

What we don’t do is deny them a place to worship, like is going on in Gungahlin right now.

The Concerned Citizens of Canberra are not actually all from here. The genesis of that organisation comes from Wee Waa near Gosford and from an Islam hater in the US. This was exposed about three years ago in the Canberra Times.

Why is it then that some people who wish to worship their God do so under extreme conditions of disapproval, are the subject of scaremongering, and are valuable members of our community scattered all over the Territory?

And yet in the main, we tolerate the “missionaries” from overseas when they come knocking on our doors!

The irony is just breathtaking!

What’s Your opinion?


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Mormon Missionaries – A Religious Irony
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dungfungus 6:05 pm 20 Sep 14

bigfeet said :

dungfungus said :

In the meantime can you provide names or links of Muslim people/organisations that are condemning Islamic extremists?
Enjoy your halal beer.

Sorry, did they introduce internet censorship in Australia while I have been gone? A simple google search of Muslim Organisations Condenm terrorism/extremism brings up 100s if not thousands of different examples around the world.

Anyway no time now. A new day is dawning here and it’s time to get on with our holiday in this exciting, friendly and welcoming part of the wold that is the Middle East.

Are Mormon missionaries welcome there also?

bigfeet 1:02 pm 20 Sep 14

dungfungus said :

In the meantime can you provide names or links of Muslim people/organisations that are condemning Islamic extremists?
Enjoy your halal beer.

Sorry, did they introduce internet censorship in Australia while I have been gone? A simple google search of Muslim Organisations Condenm terrorism/extremism brings up 100s if not thousands of different examples around the world.

Anyway no time now. A new day is dawning here and it’s time to get on with our holiday in this exciting, friendly and welcoming part of the wold that is the Middle East.

bigfeet 12:35 pm 20 Sep 14

dungfungus said :

bigfeet said :

dungfungus said :

With the greatest respect, you know what a fatwa is don’t you? It is not an act of tolerance. The worst thing that Christians have these days is ex-communication which isn’t lethal like a fatwa.

Well from that it is pretty obvious that you don’t know what a fatwa is either. Like your histrionics about ‘halal’ some time ago when you once again proved you did not know the meaning of the term. I would assume that the term ‘jihad’ would also frighten you? Maybe you should actually look at what these words mean instead of taking the Alan Jones/News Ltd etc definitions!

And just for the record I am typing this from a ‘Muslim’ country, the fourth I have been in in the last month, where I have been greeted by nothing but welcome and hospitality. In fact this afternoon I ran into a taxi driver I know as he was heading back from Friday mosque. My wife and I are meeting up with him and his wife at a bar later for some beers and dinner. Yes beers…many Muslims drink.

And can I tell you that people here are more condemning of extremists than anyone in Australia I have ever met and with good reason. Everyone, and I mean Everyone, points out that those nutjobs are not Muslims in any way.

While you have been out of Australia for the past month, a few things have happened and if you are in a Muslim country you probably haven’t heard due to censorship etc.
I should wait until you are informed and we can continue the discussion when you return to Australia, hopefully in one piece.
In the meantime can you provide names or links of Muslim people/organisations that are condemning Islamic extremists?
Enjoy your halal beer.

Why would you think their would be censorship? I can access any website here that I can in Australia, and have been able to in the other countries as well. If you put down your xenophobia for a minute you might realise that.

The Aussie terror raids have been widely reported over here as well in local English language media and the locals are well aware of them and widely supportive.

As for organisations and people condemning Muslim extremists, some of the best examples have been in the Australian media of Australian Muslims and Australian Muslim organisations condemning extremism. Many, many examples if you care to look.

By the way beer is not halal. Doesn’t stop many Muslims drinking it though.

Most Muslims are just normal people wanting to get on with their lives without any interference from either government or religion. Much like us Aussies.

dungfungus 8:40 am 20 Sep 14

bigfeet said :

dungfungus said :

With the greatest respect, you know what a fatwa is don’t you? It is not an act of tolerance. The worst thing that Christians have these days is ex-communication which isn’t lethal like a fatwa.

Well from that it is pretty obvious that you don’t know what a fatwa is either. Like your histrionics about ‘halal’ some time ago when you once again proved you did not know the meaning of the term. I would assume that the term ‘jihad’ would also frighten you? Maybe you should actually look at what these words mean instead of taking the Alan Jones/News Ltd etc definitions!

And just for the record I am typing this from a ‘Muslim’ country, the fourth I have been in in the last month, where I have been greeted by nothing but welcome and hospitality. In fact this afternoon I ran into a taxi driver I know as he was heading back from Friday mosque. My wife and I are meeting up with him and his wife at a bar later for some beers and dinner. Yes beers…many Muslims drink.

And can I tell you that people here are more condemning of extremists than anyone in Australia I have ever met and with good reason. Everyone, and I mean Everyone, points out that those nutjobs are not Muslims in any way.

While you have been out of Australia for the past month, a few things have happened and if you are in a Muslim country you probably haven’t heard due to censorship etc.
I should wait until you are informed and we can continue the discussion when you return to Australia, hopefully in one piece.
In the meantime can you provide names or links of Muslim people/organisations that are condemning Islamic extremists?
Enjoy your halal beer.

bigfeet 2:30 am 20 Sep 14

dungfungus said :

With the greatest respect, you know what a fatwa is don’t you? It is not an act of tolerance. The worst thing that Christians have these days is ex-communication which isn’t lethal like a fatwa.

Well from that it is pretty obvious that you don’t know what a fatwa is either. Like your histrionics about ‘halal’ some time ago when you once again proved you did not know the meaning of the term. I would assume that the term ‘jihad’ would also frighten you? Maybe you should actually look at what these words mean instead of taking the Alan Jones/News Ltd etc definitions!

And just for the record I am typing this from a ‘Muslim’ country, the fourth I have been in in the last month, where I have been greeted by nothing but welcome and hospitality. In fact this afternoon I ran into a taxi driver I know as he was heading back from Friday mosque. My wife and I are meeting up with him and his wife at a bar later for some beers and dinner. Yes beers…many Muslims drink.

And can I tell you that people here are more condemning of extremists than anyone in Australia I have ever met and with good reason. Everyone, and I mean Everyone, points out that those nutjobs are not Muslims in any way.

dungfungus 6:10 pm 19 Sep 14

justin heywood said :

dungfungus said :

justin heywood said :

dungfungus said :

The reality is that the Anglican Church is in decline, along with most other Christian religions…

Yep. But you have to smile at the logic of people who demonstrate their hatred of religious intolerance by taking swipes at some other religion.

That would be Muslims that you are referring to then.
It wasn’t always like that though.
The first article of the constitution of the inhabitants of Medina, the Muslims as well as those who had entered the pact from the Jews, Christian, and idolaters, were “one nation to the exclusion of all others.” All were considered members and citizens of Medina society regardless of religion, race, or ancestry. People of other faiths were protected from harm as much as the Muslims, as is stated in another article, “To the Jews who follow us belong help and equity. He shall not be harmed nor his enemies be aided.” Previously, each tribe had their alliances and enemies within and without Medina. The Prophet gathered these different tribes under one system of governance which upheld pacts of alliances previously in existence between those individual tribes. All tribes had to act as a whole with disregard to individual alliances. Any attack on other religion or tribe was considered an attack on the state and upon the Muslims as well.
There were also many cities in Spain where the Moors co-habitated with Jews and Christians.
Well, that was a long time ago and these days Muslims, while happy to settle in western countries, still regard their hosts as infidels. There is no tolerance in Islam for infidels.
With the greatest respect, you know what a fatwa is don’t you? It is not an act of tolerance. The worst thing that Christians have these days is ex-communication which isn’t lethal like a fatwa.

Geez dungers, lighten up, I think we’re on the same page on this. (Obviously I need to work on the way I phrase things).

FWIW I’m a science type of dude, so I’m very doubtful about ALL religions. But it has become fashionable in some circles to ignore the nasty side of Islam while talking up the various failures of Christian churches. I was just calling out some hypocrisy.

Fair enough JH. I can see where you are coming from and I agree with your synopsis about the hypocricy. The ABC is a leader in this.

justin heywood 4:47 pm 19 Sep 14

dungfungus said :

justin heywood said :

dungfungus said :

The reality is that the Anglican Church is in decline, along with most other Christian religions…

Yep. But you have to smile at the logic of people who demonstrate their hatred of religious intolerance by taking swipes at some other religion.

That would be Muslims that you are referring to then.
It wasn’t always like that though.
The first article of the constitution of the inhabitants of Medina, the Muslims as well as those who had entered the pact from the Jews, Christian, and idolaters, were “one nation to the exclusion of all others.” All were considered members and citizens of Medina society regardless of religion, race, or ancestry. People of other faiths were protected from harm as much as the Muslims, as is stated in another article, “To the Jews who follow us belong help and equity. He shall not be harmed nor his enemies be aided.” Previously, each tribe had their alliances and enemies within and without Medina. The Prophet gathered these different tribes under one system of governance which upheld pacts of alliances previously in existence between those individual tribes. All tribes had to act as a whole with disregard to individual alliances. Any attack on other religion or tribe was considered an attack on the state and upon the Muslims as well.
There were also many cities in Spain where the Moors co-habitated with Jews and Christians.
Well, that was a long time ago and these days Muslims, while happy to settle in western countries, still regard their hosts as infidels. There is no tolerance in Islam for infidels.
With the greatest respect, you know what a fatwa is don’t you? It is not an act of tolerance. The worst thing that Christians have these days is ex-communication which isn’t lethal like a fatwa.

Geez dungers, lighten up, I think we’re on the same page on this. (Obviously I need to work on the way I phrase things).

FWIW I’m a science type of dude, so I’m very doubtful about ALL religions. But it has become fashionable in some circles to ignore the nasty side of Islam while talking up the various failures of Christian churches. I was just calling out some hypocrisy.

dungfungus 1:34 pm 19 Sep 14

justin heywood said :

dungfungus said :

The reality is that the Anglican Church is in decline, along with most other Christian religions…

Yep. But you have to smile at the logic of people who demonstrate their hatred of religious intolerance by taking swipes at some other religion.

That would be Muslims that you are referring to then.
It wasn’t always like that though.
The first article of the constitution of the inhabitants of Medina, the Muslims as well as those who had entered the pact from the Jews, Christian, and idolaters, were “one nation to the exclusion of all others.” All were considered members and citizens of Medina society regardless of religion, race, or ancestry. People of other faiths were protected from harm as much as the Muslims, as is stated in another article, “To the Jews who follow us belong help and equity. He shall not be harmed nor his enemies be aided.” Previously, each tribe had their alliances and enemies within and without Medina. The Prophet gathered these different tribes under one system of governance which upheld pacts of alliances previously in existence between those individual tribes. All tribes had to act as a whole with disregard to individual alliances. Any attack on other religion or tribe was considered an attack on the state and upon the Muslims as well.
There were also many cities in Spain where the Moors co-habitated with Jews and Christians.
Well, that was a long time ago and these days Muslims, while happy to settle in western countries, still regard their hosts as infidels. There is no tolerance in Islam for infidels.
With the greatest respect, you know what a fatwa is don’t you? It is not an act of tolerance. The worst thing that Christians have these days is ex-communication which isn’t lethal like a fatwa.

justin heywood 11:29 am 19 Sep 14

dungfungus said :

The reality is that the Anglican Church is in decline, along with most other Christian religions…

Yep. But you have to smile at the logic of people who demonstrate their hatred of religious intolerance by taking swipes at some other religion.

dungfungus 8:34 am 19 Sep 14

fabforty said :

I am fairly confident that the Concerned citizens of Gungahlin would not bat an eyelid if the Anglican Church was planning to build in the same area as the planned mosque.

The reality is that the Anglican Church is in decline, along with most other Christian religions so there is no likelehood that they will be building another church in Gungahlin.
Conversely, Islam (which is more than a religion) is spreading at the same rate as the number of Muslims that settle in a new area.

fabforty 7:09 am 19 Sep 14

I am fairly confident that the Concerned citizens of Gungahlin would not bat an eyelid if the Anglican Church was planning to build in the same area as the planned mosque.

dungfungus 8:31 pm 18 Sep 14

Southmouth said :

Kalliste said :

Southmouth said :

Kalliste said :

Southmouth said :

For some religions, fanaticism takes the form of door knocking or working with the poor. For others it is killing the unrepentant. Not all communities are as comfortable with the later.

Some also wear white cloaks and want to purify society in the name of Christianity but that doesn’t stop us allowing people of christian faith to worship wherever they like.

And in this case we shouldn’t stop a Mosque being built because of the reputation extremists have.

I’m not sure how many KKK members have been recruited in Australian churches but I expect it is a number close to 0.

Are you suggesting mosques in Australia knowingly recruit terrorists?

What I am saying is that Australians are being recruited to jihad while they are in Australia.

Which was confirmed on ABC TV News tonight.
I have it on good authority that the recruiting doesn’t happen at the local pub.

Pork Hunt 8:00 pm 18 Sep 14

So no takers on the missionary position of calling 18 year olds “Elder”? It’s on their name tags.

Maya123 5:52 pm 18 Sep 14

From my fairly limited knowledge and dealings with Muslims, my experience is that yes, you visit them in their home countries they are welcoming. I went with non-Muslim friends to visit homes after Ramadan in a foreign country and I was made welcome and offered food. But it was more polite than warm. My Muslim tenant in my house let another tenant (a very religious Hindu) and me accompany her to the Canberra mosque after Ramadan ended. No-one else there spoke to my Hindu tenant or me or showed any interest in us. We were not welcomed; we were ignored. The Hindu tenant invited the Muslim and me to her religious festivals. I went, but the Muslim tenant refused, saying she wasn’t allowed and mustn’t. She was not willing to learn and experience other religions. I told her no-one expected her to convert, but it is interesting to learn about others. I said the Hindu was not going to convert, but was interested to learn more about other religions. But, NO, the Muslim wouldn’t, and she is not the only individual I have met with this outlook. The difference how I was treated at the Hindu festivals was so different to how I had been ignored at the Muslim mosque. At the Hindu festival I was made very welcome and offered food, invited back, told I could use someone’s private temple if I wanted to. The welcome was so warm. So even though I was not Hindu I was warmly welcomed, but I have always felt I would only be warmly received by Muslims if I was Muslim. Sure I have been treated politely, but that is different to being warmly treated.
I have read half the Koran. Until I did that I was much more so called ‘liberal’ in my views. The Koran frightened me in what it says. Before anyone makes ignorant liberal approaches to this religion, please read the Koran. It is scary.

justin heywood 1:52 pm 18 Sep 14

watto23 said :

There are some points about how its not ok for one religion but perfectly ok for another religion. ie certain religions got here first so anything they do is perfectly ok, but how dare another religion with different opinions want to practice their religion in a building of worship as well!

Where is the issue? Who says ‘its not ok for one religion (Islam) but perfectly ok for another”? The whole protest composed of a few fringe nut bags who aren’t locals and whose whose protest failed some time ago. Hardly a groundswell of intolerance.

Apparently though, their activities are JUST relevant enough to be dredged up as part of some commentary on a few harmless Christian door knockers, some unspecified Christian killings and the Catholic child abuse scandal.

All in a post ostensibly about tolerance. Yeah right.

watto23 11:33 am 18 Sep 14

justin heywood said :

What is the point of this article? Bait a few bigoted Islamophobes? A chance for the usual suspects to air some anti-Christian sentiments ( and that’s not bigotry of course).

The challenge to the mosque being built was thrown out of court, and the building has already begun. The relevance of this to Mormon missionaries is not clear.

The only irony I can see is that, on a board where local politics is always a hot topic, it is the one subject that John Hargreaves seems reluctant to discuss.

There are some points about how its not ok for one religion but perfectly ok for another religion. ie certain religions got here first so anything they do is perfectly ok, but how dare another religion with different opinions want to practice their religion in a building of worship as well!

One can argue that the terrorism committed by extremist Muslims is as bad as it gets, but it doesn’t mean because you don’t kill anyone you aren’t doing as much harm or anything wrong. In my day to day activities, Christianity based religions are generally far more intrusive into my life than any Muslim based religion. Although it upsets me what terrorist are doing to innocent people, it doesn’t affect me personally. Having door knockers and religious lobby groups making sure the government does policies approved by them, is far more intrusive on me.

I’m more than happy to tolerate all religions. Just don’t tell me what I can and can’t do by your own religious standards. Your religion is your choice (actually its often not which is sad), you are free to practice it within the laws of Australia.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back 11:20 am 18 Sep 14

justin heywood said :

What is the point of this article? Bait a few bigoted Islamophobes? A chance for the usual suspects to air some anti-Christian sentiments ( and that’s not bigotry of course).

This. +1.

justin heywood 10:38 am 18 Sep 14

What is the point of this article? Bait a few bigoted Islamophobes? A chance for the usual suspects to air some anti-Christian sentiments ( and that’s not bigotry of course).

The challenge to the mosque being built was thrown out of court, and the building has already begun. The relevance of this to Mormon missionaries is not clear.

The only irony I can see is that, on a board where local politics is always a hot topic, it is the one subject that John Hargreaves seems reluctant to discuss.

Southmouth 7:00 pm 17 Sep 14

dungfungus said :

watto23 said :

Kalliste said :

Southmouth said :

Kalliste said :

Southmouth said :

For some religions, fanaticism takes the form of door knocking or working with the poor. For others it is killing the unrepentant. Not all communities are as comfortable with the later.

Some also wear white cloaks and want to purify society in the name of Christianity but that doesn’t stop us allowing people of christian faith to worship wherever they like.

And in this case we shouldn’t stop a Mosque being built because of the reputation extremists have.

I’m not sure how many KKK members have been recruited in Australian churches but I expect it is a number close to 0.

Are you suggesting mosques in Australia knowingly recruit terrorists?

I’m convinced that people do believe this is the case but are also most likely the least informed people to be making this statement.
Are there extremists in Australia? definitely. I’d like to think our various gov agencies know about who they are though and thus the “raised” terror threat.
But it doesn’t mean the majority are, many of whom fled countries because of said terrorists.

Its not like extremist christians haven’t killed people either and we don’t assume all christians are as bad as the worst of them.

The Jonestown massacre would be a good example of this.

Hideous crime is hideous crime. Criminal acts in spite of professed religion. There have been few, if any modern examples (ie since people became literate) of Christians waging Holy war and you won’t find any direction or even vague excuse to do it in the New Testament.

dungfungus 6:01 pm 17 Sep 14

watto23 said :

Kalliste said :

Southmouth said :

Kalliste said :

Southmouth said :

For some religions, fanaticism takes the form of door knocking or working with the poor. For others it is killing the unrepentant. Not all communities are as comfortable with the later.

Some also wear white cloaks and want to purify society in the name of Christianity but that doesn’t stop us allowing people of christian faith to worship wherever they like.

And in this case we shouldn’t stop a Mosque being built because of the reputation extremists have.

I’m not sure how many KKK members have been recruited in Australian churches but I expect it is a number close to 0.

Are you suggesting mosques in Australia knowingly recruit terrorists?

I’m convinced that people do believe this is the case but are also most likely the least informed people to be making this statement.
Are there extremists in Australia? definitely. I’d like to think our various gov agencies know about who they are though and thus the “raised” terror threat.
But it doesn’t mean the majority are, many of whom fled countries because of said terrorists.

Its not like extremist christians haven’t killed people either and we don’t assume all christians are as bad as the worst of them.

The Jonestown massacre would be a good example of this.

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