PEDAL POWER WANTS MORE?

CraigT said :

I think the ACT Ratepayer (who pays for these things) is sick to the back teeth of hearing yet more demands from this noisy fringe.

You should stop thinking that your criminal arrogance is representative of the majority of Territorians.

Objective said :

davo101 said :

Objective said :

Pork Hunt said :

No government in the world will ever make cyclists pay for rego.

A very glib comment. Off the top of my head I can name at least one Government that does, Japan; no doubt there are more.

Bike registration in Japan is a theft deterrence measure. It costs you $5.50 to register your bike for life.

Here’s a challenge–see if you can find a jurisdiction where they attempt to pay for cycling infrastructure by charging cyclists a registration fee.

Are you honestly attempting to imply that motor registration pays for the entirety of road infrastructure? Just because the registration fee doesn’t cover the whole cost, doesn’t mean that it’s neither worthless nor a registration fee. The poster purported that no country would impose a bicycle registration fee and I proved otherwise, pretty simple.

Cyclists in Canberra get more km of cycle path per cyclist than anywhere else in the world, Denmark and Holland included, so I think the ACT Ratepayer (who pays for these things) is sick to the back teeth of hearing yet more demands from this noisy fringe.

davo101 said :

Objective said :

Pork Hunt said :

No government in the world will ever make cyclists pay for rego.

A very glib comment. Off the top of my head I can name at least one Government that does, Japan; no doubt there are more.

Bike registration in Japan is a theft deterrence measure. It costs you $5.50 to register your bike for life.

Here’s a challenge–see if you can find a jurisdiction where they attempt to pay for cycling infrastructure by charging cyclists a registration fee.

Are you honestly attempting to imply that motor registration pays for the entirety of road infrastructure? Just because the registration fee doesn’t cover the whole cost, doesn’t mean that it’s neither worthless nor a registration fee. The poster purported that no country would impose a bicycle registration fee and I proved otherwise, pretty simple.

magiccar9 said :

Has this nimby stuck his well educated head outside his office recently? Canberra is abundant with cyclist infrastructure. ACTION park’n’ride cages litter our streets. We have those fandangled up-down segregated cycle tracks through Civic. We have fluorescent green cycle lanes on every second or third street. We have incredible bike paths, and quite possibly the most vocal cycling community the world has ever seen.

The point I’m making is that if anything we’re under utilising the existing infrastructure we have for cyclists. I’m yet to see the giant cycle lane on Adelaide Avenue clogged with cyclists during peak hour (heck, I’m lucky to see more than 5 cyclists at a time on the entire length of it). I’m yet to see the cycle paths around the capital brimming with lycra clad bums, and every time I pass the ACTION bike cages they’re almost completely empty.
So to Mr Parker I say that if we want people to get out and ride more they need to do exactly that… get out and ride. Instead we have a cycling community of loud mouths who’d rather sit in their office and bitch and moan about never having enough. You do! Get outside, use what’s provided for you and stop complaining about how hard you have life!

As a semi-regular cyclist, I take your point – I’ve been riding into work some mornings, and wondering where all the other cyclists are. Sure, I run into plenty when I come down Barry Drive and towards the ANU, but they’re pretty thin on the ground before then.

From my perspective, one of the problems with the infrastructure we do have, is that it’s piecemeal. On / Off-road cycle paths that don’t link to anything, or suddenly end – so instead of having a space of your own, you’re either on the road with cars, or forced off the road onto regular paths.

My commute from West Belconnen starts near Kippax. Heading up Southern Cross Drive there is no bike lane, so I ride on the old, bumpy footpath next to the road. I don’t mind riding on roads, but Southern Cross is narrow, busy, and has a heap of heavy vehicle traffic – it’s not a risk I’ll take. That footpath is bumpy, I’ve got to cross dozens of driveways…it’s not ideal.

An on-road bike lane appears towards the top, which I take until the intersection with Kingsford Smith Drive. Heading through the intersection, the bike lane again vanishes, before reappearing half way down then hill. At Ratcliffe Drive it again disappears, until a ‘Form One Lane’ further down the road, where it reappears.

I feel lucky that from this point onwards, I’ve at least got on-road bike paths the rest of the way.

You can’t just look at a nice wide cycle lane up Adelaide Avenue, and use that to judge whether cyclists are using what they’ve already got. Because if the road to the quality pieces of infrastructure are dodgy, dangerous, or simply non-existent, then a heap of people just won’t take the risk.

magiccar9 said :

Has this nimby stuck his well educated head outside his office recently? Canberra is abundant with cyclist infrastructure. ACTION park’n’ride cages litter our streets. We have those fandangled up-down segregated cycle tracks through Civic. We have fluorescent green cycle lanes on every second or third street. We have incredible bike paths, and quite possibly the most vocal cycling community the world has ever seen.

The point I’m making is that if anything we’re under utilising the existing infrastructure we have for cyclists. I’m yet to see the giant cycle lane on Adelaide Avenue clogged with cyclists during peak hour (heck, I’m lucky to see more than 5 cyclists at a time on the entire length of it). I’m yet to see the cycle paths around the capital brimming with lycra clad bums, and every time I pass the ACTION bike cages they’re almost completely empty.
So to Mr Parker I say that if we want people to get out and ride more they need to do exactly that… get out and ride. Instead we have a cycling community of loud mouths who’d rather sit in their office and bitch and moan about never having enough. You do! Get outside, use what’s provided for you and stop complaining about how hard you have life!

Well, lack of cyclists on Adelaide Ave may well be proving his point.

I can point to, oh, 50% of roads in Canberra that have less than 20 vehicles driving down them every day. Just take a look at all the ‘places’ in Belco that only get driven on by residents. But we dont hear calls to abolish them do we.

I can also point to bike paths/lanes that have several hundred riders per day. I guess, like Northbourne Ave and Parkes Way etc, they are paths that go to places people want to go to.

Pointing to an unused cycle path and claiming it represents Canberra cyclists is like me pointing to Gidja Place in Giralang and saying I never anyone use it. Its true people dont use it, there are reasons for that

so Prof. Parker wants some more bike lanes?

I wanted to keep my job at UC a few years back too rather than be outsourced to india but we don’t always get what we want

perhaps he can get a few indians on on 457’s to build his paths on the cheap

bainbridge said :

As I cyclist I’m all for registration for bicycles. Every single bicycle sold in the country. Even kids ones from kmart which will only travel about 1km before going to the tip.

In the ACT you can register a car weighing up to 975kg for 12 months for $235.40. That’s about 24 cents per kilo for the year. A very hefty bicycle might weigh 10kg, so that’s $2.40 for the year, seems OK to me. Of course it would probably cost about $5 to collect the $2.40 so lets bring it up to $7.40 for the year. I’d pay it.

+1
I’ve said here before that if the Govt set up a voluntary bike rego scheme i’d happily pay it. But only if it came with a sticker I could put on my bike that said: “I’ve given some $ to the Govt for ‘bike rego’, so find something else to whinge about”!
Bring it on! 🙂

tim_c said :

Just how much infrastructure do you think you get for your $286.50 registration fee (after deduction of costs associated with administering registration, collecting the fees, etc.).

What, me personally? Pretty much sweet FA, not that I said any different.

tim_c said :

Of all the road trauma, how much of this is the fault of drivers of cars, and how much is attributed to riders of pushbikes?

I did read recently that the last time a cyclist killed a pedestrian in Australia was 2006, so I’m predicting cars first daylight second.

davo101 said :

Here’s a challenge–see if you can find a jurisdiction where they attempt to pay for cycling infrastructure by charging cyclists a registration fee.

Here’s a bigger challenge – see if you can find a jurisdiction where they attempt to pay for road infrastructure by charging car owners a registration fee! Just how much infrastructure do you think you get for your $286.50 registration fee (after deduction of costs associated with administering registration, collecting the fees, etc.).

Registration is not primarily about bringing in revenue, it is primarily about being able to identify a vehicle and owner so that there is some accountability for all the people they kill or injure and the costs of property damaged.

Of all the road trauma, how much of this is the fault of drivers of cars, and how much is attributed to riders of pushbikes? The requirement (or otherwise) for a vehicle to be registered reflects the risk to the community.

I wouldn’t be upset if bike registration was mandatory if it could make cyclists more accountable for things like running red lights, but I’m not convinced it will help much as it doesn’t seem to be particularly effective for preventing many drivers of cars from running red lights, or even parking illegally. And just for the record: I commute about 50% of the time by car and about 50% of the time by bike (always on bike paths except for the first and last parts of my trip where there are no bike paths).

Has this nimby stuck his well educated head outside his office recently? Canberra is abundant with cyclist infrastructure. ACTION park’n’ride cages litter our streets. We have those fandangled up-down segregated cycle tracks through Civic. We have fluorescent green cycle lanes on every second or third street. We have incredible bike paths, and quite possibly the most vocal cycling community the world has ever seen.

The point I’m making is that if anything we’re under utilising the existing infrastructure we have for cyclists. I’m yet to see the giant cycle lane on Adelaide Avenue clogged with cyclists during peak hour (heck, I’m lucky to see more than 5 cyclists at a time on the entire length of it). I’m yet to see the cycle paths around the capital brimming with lycra clad bums, and every time I pass the ACTION bike cages they’re almost completely empty.
So to Mr Parker I say that if we want people to get out and ride more they need to do exactly that… get out and ride. Instead we have a cycling community of loud mouths who’d rather sit in their office and bitch and moan about never having enough. You do! Get outside, use what’s provided for you and stop complaining about how hard you have life!

I dont know where to begin….

bainbridge said :

As I cyclist I’m all for registration for bicycles. Every single bicycle sold in the country. Even kids ones from kmart which will only travel about 1km before going to the tip.

In the ACT you can register a car weighing up to 975kg for 12 months for $235.40. That’s about 24 cents per kilo for the year. A very hefty bicycle might weigh 10kg, so that’s $2.40 for the year, seems OK to me. Of course it would probably cost about $5 to collect the $2.40 so lets bring it up to $7.40 for the year. I’d pay it.

+1

Lets explore cyclelanes.

Travelling along the GDE between Palmerston and Mitchell, toward Mitchell is where I am thinking of for this example. There is an on-road cycle lane and in addition a designated wide, pedestrian/cycle path, situated off the main road. In this environment I think either is really ok and common sense suggests to use the off road lane specifically NOT for motor vehicles. Surely this is safer. But honestly, on-road or on the designated seperate path in these surroundings, the cyclist should remain reasonably safe.

Next example is Kuringa drive at the back of Fraser/Spence, travelling either direction.
Cyclists, please try to remain calm and openminded. This road is winds left and right, single lane, poor visibility, lack of ANY bike lane on-road or otherwise. I understand cyclists are allowed to use this road, but FFS have a think about it. The road is small, poorly lit (no street lights at all) and dangerous and with a cyclist on the road coming up out of a dip or around a blind bend, there is nowhere to go. So why put yourself in that position?

Please don’t start with “you should be patient, slow down, it wont hurt to wait”. I am not talking about passing the cyclists, I am talking about cyclists appearing out of nowhere due to the contours and surrounding environment, regardless of the motorists speed or driving technique.

This example highlights, in my opinion, the problem with our cyclelanes: The mindset behind the peddles.

As I cyclist I’m all for registration for bicycles. Every single bicycle sold in the country. Even kids ones from kmart which will only travel about 1km before going to the tip.

In the ACT you can register a car weighing up to 975kg for 12 months for $235.40. That’s about 24 cents per kilo for the year. A very hefty bicycle might weigh 10kg, so that’s $2.40 for the year, seems OK to me. Of course it would probably cost about $5 to collect the $2.40 so lets bring it up to $7.40 for the year. I’d pay it.

Objective said :

Pork Hunt said :

No government in the world will ever make cyclists pay for rego.

A very glib comment. Off the top of my head I can name at least one Government that does, Japan; no doubt there are more.

Bike registration in Japan is a theft deterrence measure. It costs you $5.50 to register your bike for life.

Here’s a challenge–see if you can find a jurisdiction where they attempt to pay for cycling infrastructure by charging cyclists a registration fee.

Pork Hunt said :

benno1 said :

Sure, give them separated bike paths (noting they already have them in Canberra everywhere and don’t use them) and charge them registration fees to cover the cost.

No government in the world will ever make cyclists pay for rego.

A very glib comment. Off the top of my head I can name at least one Government that does, Japan; no doubt there are more. If the self entitled cyclist wants services specifically tailored to him/her, then I don’t see why they shouldn’t contribute to the cost. Motorists do, ergo cyclists should also.

Many of the older paths are narrow, twisty and full of holes and tree root bumps.

On the registration issue, as a driver it’s a no-brainer – I’m all in favour of better cycling amenities. It’s a win-win for all of us – drivers, cyclists and both. Get more people off the road, reduce road damage and improve health… societal benefits all over the place, and drivers are those that stand to benefit the most in many ways. Sure, cyclists are irritating sometimes, but much, much less than drivers (and I say this as someone who didn’t regularly ride until recently).

I ride (slowly) on the bike paths.. it’d be nice if they were a little smoother, but still, they’re OK by me. If I was a lycra-wearer tearing around at a decent speed, the corrugations would be highly annoying and possibly dangerous, so I can understand why those guys use them less.

Finally, an interesting technical point – damage to road surfaces goes approximately with the fourth power of the weight per axle of the vehicle, so my ~65kg of bike + rider does literally a thousand times less damage to the surface of the road than my 700kg of car + driver (‘cos my car is tiny), and none at all when riding on cycle paths. Roadwork sucks… people should definitely ride more 🙂

benno1 said :

Sure, give them separated bike paths (noting they already have them in Canberra everywhere and don’t use them) and charge them registration fees to cover the cost.

No government in the world will ever make cyclists pay for rego.

benno1 said :

Sure, give them separated bike paths (noting they already have them in Canberra everywhere and don’t use them) and charge them registration fees to cover the cost.

Don’t go kidding yourself that your rego covers the costs of the roads. Every tax payer, including cyclists, are subsidising your metal ass.

ps: the issue is that cyclists, like drivers, usually want to get from Point A to Point B. Some bikes lanes allow this to occur. But many ‘Point Bs’ dont have bike lanes going to them, or at least bike lanes that are useful or particularly safe – Canberra Uni, I think, most offices in Barton, Russell, the airport and etc etc. Fixing up these spots by adding on road cycle lanes is, as gasman mentioned, cheaper but doesnt actually encourage most people because they feel its insane (I never ride down Northbourne even though the bike lane through OConnor is much slower).

Whether or not building separate bike lanes is a useful expenditure of money is a different question. Then again, the Majura parkway (or whatever its called) alone probably costs more than the entire amount spent on bike paths in the history of Canberra.

benno1 said :

Sure, give them separated bike paths (noting they already have them in Canberra everywhere and don’t use them) and charge them registration fees to cover the cost.

Stand at the crossing of Marcus Clarke St and Barry Drive between 8 and 9am and see how many times you are almost hit by a bike that has just come off the ‘inner north’ bike lane.

”Canberra really needs bike lanes physically separated from cars if we want to get a lot more people riding.”

No. Absolutely not.
Canberra’s bike paths are great. You’ll find hundreds of uni-students and others using the bike-path network throughout the inner north every day. Making the existing bike path network more expansive and more direct wherever possible is a great idea.

Continuing the farce that ‘bikes have a place on major roads’ is not a great idea however.
I don’t know what the hell is wrong with pedal power and the lycra clad riders – why do they have this insane urge to ride alongside traffic? I just don’t get it.
I’ve seen people actually hugging the right-hand side of bike lanes/road-shoulders, riding two inches to the left of the line, and narrowly avoided hitting one moron on hindmarsh drive a couple of weeks ago when he’d left himself no margin for error hugging the right edge of the lane and somehow lost control, veering into the car lane. I’d seen him fumbling with his handlebars, had room to move to the right myself and did, but if I hadn’t I’ve have collided with him as he veered into my lane .
What is it about these people that actually seems to cause them to be attracted them to being buffeted by the wind as cars speed past them?

I’ve also been a regular bike rider at various points in my life and I’ve always found it incredibly unpleasant to ride near/around traffic. Obviously concrete footpaths aren’t appropriate for road-bikes, but the dedicated bitumen bike paths most certainly are

”The cycle paths available were pretty good years ago but they’re not so cutting edge now.”

What’s he basing that on? From my experience, cycle paths in Canberra are generally in excellent condition.

This has been done before and surely we are all sick of it. If you want to see how the arguments will go, use the search box up the top and find the last eleventy million this argument was had.

I don’t cycle, but physically separated cycle lanes are a good idea. Bike paths are no direct and meander all over the suburbs.

Sure, give them separated bike paths (noting they already have them in Canberra everywhere and don’t use them) and charge them registration fees to cover the cost.

There has been a push over the past 5 years or so of making on-road cycle lanes, rather than physically separated bicycle paths.

Each has their benefits and disadvantages. On-road bike lanes are often the most direct route, and are cheaper to make (simply use the shoulder), but involve bicycles interacting with cars. Annoying for car drivers and dangerous for cyclists.

Off-road bike paths are less direct, and less comprehensive, more expensive to build but completely separate cars from bikes, benefitting both.

At the moment (in Canberra) a significant percentage of car drivers regard on-raod cyclists as an annoyance and infringing on their God-given right to drive fast, rather than as a legitimate form of getting from A to B

Once a certain critical mass of cyclists exists, even on-road bike lanes become safer as car driver awareness and acceptance of cyclists improves, and they modify their driving behaviour accordingly. This is an attitudinal change, and has already happened in many cities and countries around the world.

A comprehensive bicycle path and lane system benefits everybody, including car drivers, by decreasing congestion, decreasing taxes spent on roads, parking and healthcare, decreased carbon emissions.

Building a good cycling infrastructure is very cost effective for communities.

“Hmmm, I thought that’s what bike paths were?”
Bike paths are so 80’s