Red Light Traffic Cameras (Part Deux)

Oh thats right..stats tell the whole story. Did the stats say how many more drivers are on the road comapared to before. Oh and the CT’s is a reliable source of good information too……CT tells the population what sells newspapers … camera bashing and alike sells newspapers.

For the record I said (if you would like to read my post again more carefully) IF it saves just ONE life, it is worth it. You like to bash my post, but you can’t even read it properly, or don’t I deserve it because i’m “just another poster”

Umm the law states “at or before” (in words to that effect) not just “AT” like you are saying. You may need to rehash your road rules knowledge because it seems you know very little. When you cross the white line you have proceded into the intersection, even if you stop. How does stopping a car length BEFORE the white line equate to the same offence if the vehicle has not proceded into the intersection? (yes, I agree, people stopping a car length is wrong, but is not the same offence as you have suggested) And where the hell did “Camrys” come from???

Where indeed are these wonderful stats that you preach, tell me they aren’t from CT. Sorry to get personal, but your input was barely readable and showed a great lack of knowledge, on all fronts.

Are you someone that was caught doing the wrong thing and are now peeved because you got fined ?? Sounds a lot like sour grapes to me. If you think the laws are wrong, write to the ministers, start a petition and get them changed.

Maybe this “don’t cross the line” thing is what has caused the now very-common habit of vehicles stopping up a car length BEHIND the line. The law says – at the line (if you are the first car for the pedantic).

So they are committing THE SAME offence as going across the line on the red – all but a few inches…right?! “At” means that – not just over or just before. Mostly Camrys though. So they should get booked too on the arguments above.

But, maybe some instructor told them to stay back in case a car runs up your rear and pushes you into the traffic. If the impact is that great your whiplash and other injuries will mean you wont even notice the second impact. Spidey… the cameras haven’t saved lives … read CT (and Riot) to see that ACT road death rate has gone UP since the cameras. And rear enders up by 50%++ at some – Ginnenderra and Aikman for one. Your early input was readable, but cliches make you just another poster.

Sorry to rain on your parade Deano, traffic offences are Strict and absolute meaning a drivers intent is not considered, full stop. A driver reason for not stopping at the white line is purely a mitigating circumstace. Simple fact is the law states stop before the borken line. Is it a little harsh…maybe. I think DJ is correct in saying that all drivers should have the ability to stop thier vehicle before the line.

How do you know what the law was designed for? You say it was only designed for “stopping collisions” When drivers go past the white line, they are in the pedestrian zone, so even just having the front end of your car over the line doesn’t mean you aren’t going to collide with a pedestrian or at the very least inconvenience them by having to walk around the vehicle.

A great deal of traffic crashes occurr at traffic lights and intersections and this includes pedestrians. So why not target this?

I remember when geting my drivers licence, of being told that you must stop before the white line, and if I didn’t stop before the white line, would mean a possible failure of the driving test…. Obeying the road rules doesn’t stop after you get your full licence?

Yes I agree that cameras don’t have discretion and may seem a little unfair, Police do have discretion and can take into account any mitigating circumstance which may result in a caution as opposed to fine, but that’s life and police can’t be everywhere and a camera may be needed in some places to take thier place. If a camera has saved at least one life, I’ll take that any day of the week, year,etc

If you can’t stop your vhicle, whatever it may be and regardless of road conditions, BEFORE the unbroken line hand your license into the nearest Police Station telling them “I do not possess the required co-ordination to drive safely”.

Boo Hoo…. drive according to the ARR and you wont get a fine. Simple. Quit crying like a school girl with a scraped knee. I was being tailgated…. boo hoo. I was forced to speed… BS.

Oh, I do sympathise with chaton however keep in mind that this is a regular excuse for those with poor driving records

Spideydog said :

Yeah, don’t cross the white line and you won’t get a fine. The law states that you must bring your vehicle to a stop at or before the white line, not after. A bit harsh maybe… but thems the rules.

Yes, that is what the rule states but the intent of the rule is to prevent collisions in the intersection, not penalise people who fail to precisely calculate the stopping distance of their vehicle by a small amount.

A complicating factor is that the decision to fine is based on a single photograph of a point in time that does not necessarily show a true representation of the driver’s intentions or actions. As a result, the examiners fall back on a technical interpretation of the rule. However, the lack of discretion applied in these cases indicate the primary purpose of red light cameras is revenue raising and not necessarily road safety.

Yeah, don’t cross the white line and you won’t get a fine. The law states that you must bring your vehicle to a stop at or before the white line, not after. A bit harsh maybe… but thems the rules.

Remember that the brake lights can be illuminated, but doesn’t mean your vehicle is stopped (not saying yours wasn’t) Someone could argue the same thing being stopped a full car length past the line. Even being just front wheels (which includes the bonnet etc) past the white line, is actually within the pedestrian area. But who cares about pedestrians that have to avoid the front of a car parked within the walking area.

EtFb

I received an infringement notice for lights at Hindmarsh intersection, it shows my 2 front wheels just over the line, brake lights on. After reading your post and another about these cameras I am not paying the fine and will send a letter to cointest the infringement. Any advice from you would be good.

EtFb said :

I had a similar problem — a red arrow at which I’d stopped, and they called it “running a red light” because my wheels were over the (poorly painted, indistinct, arbitrary) white line. I sent them a letter and they said “no, yah boo sucks, pay the fine”. I spoke to an ex-AFP friend who said that the letter would have come from three public service monkeys working on a quota, and the actual cop who signed the letter knew nothing about it, and probably never even saw my comments.

But — this is the key — once you send a letter contesting a ticket, it has to get forwarded to the magistrates and you get taken to court. If you pay anyway, before the court date, the court date gets cancelled BUT the whole pile of paperwork gets sent to a different copper to review and analyse. It was this process that led to them sending me exactly the same information: “there’s a hole in the law about red arrows, so we’re giving you your money back”.

My theory is that they keep little loopholes in the back of their heads for when the three PS monkeys have overstepped their bounds. They can hardly say “our monkeys are fascist bastards working on a quota”, because (a) it would reflect badly on the force, and (b) the truth hurts. So instead they wait until the wheels of “justice” have done a few spins, and then pull one of these loopholes out of the hat and say “here you go, have one on us”.

I don’t trust the cops in this town (or any town) enough to push it any further than that, frankly.

I come from Newcastle and puled up at the lights on Hiondmarsh Drive near Fishwyck and had the front wheels over the line, and this was at 10.30pm. I saw that there was a red light camera so I didn’t move. My car is shown stationary, brake lights on, I got a fine in the mail just like you did, I haven’t paid it and have until the 5th of May to register if I am going to contest it. After reading your comments I am now going to contest it and see what happens. If you havea read of the Dictionary and look up what the meaning of the word “Proceed” states, as compared to ehat the police say that ” you proceeded against a red arrow”, to proceed means to complete, to go through.

chaton said :

I made sure I got a good tax return that year….

OMG!!! LOL I love your thinking!!!