Redpaths - My part in their downfall

fnaah said :

Your points are valid jakez,and yeah, the internet has made tiny niche products available to anyone who cares to look, anjd that’s a great thing.

Consumers are idiots. But only if you generalise, which I was guilty of doing also.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not Captain of the Generic Squad. Like I said earlier, I love Landspeed BECAUSE of it’s atmosphere and the products that they have. I choose to pay extra for that.

I disagree with a lot of Walmart’s policies. Their music policy is gradually getting better but I still think it’s silly. That’s a product of their genesis though, they always had a slightly religious and conservative nature. They are also responding to their target market by not selling certain products. These are opportunities for others and when you get down to it, Walmart has greatly reduced the cost of good quality products for some of the poorest people in the USA, while INCREASING the diversity of products available.

No company is perfect, and you find that when a company starts to get a lions share of the market, that’s exactly when it starts to fall. The great example of an ‘evil monopoly’ is also a great example of they fluid nature of the market. Pacific Oil once had I believe about 90% of the energy market at one point in the US. However by the time the US brought in the antitrust laws, that share had dropped down to 40-60%. During the time that Pacific Oil had a ‘monopoly’, prices also fell hundreds of percentages. They got to their position because they had the best product, and when they tried to jack up prices, they lost market share. It’s all about the barrier to entry and with many things, the internet has opened up a cornucopia of opportunity.

Yes and then you wake up to yourself and buy something from Nitro Records and not Sony.

I can’t say that I’ve got the figures on hand, but I think it’s fairly safe to draw the conclusion that based on which company is making more money, the number of sleeping sheeple out there vastly outweighs the people enjoying waking life. 😉

I’m not saying this is a good thing, nor am I saying the situation is necesarily getting worse, just that it is there, and is not necessarity the fault of the consumers themselves. People and markets are easily manipulated, and big companies know this. Little companies may also know this, but the more agressive manipulation takes resources they don’t have.

Blergh, I’m probably talking nonsense. I’ll shush now. 🙂

Your points are valid jakez,and yeah, the internet has made tiny niche products available to anyone who cares to look, anjd that’s a great thing.

Consumers are idiots. But only if you generalise, which I was guilty of doing also.

fnaah said :

Well said needlenose, I know the same thing happens in the US music industry at places like Walmart – they tell the record companies what they will and won’t put on their shelves, and thus the record companies tell their artists what they can and can’t record.

Yes and then you wake up to yourself and buy something from Nitro Records and not Sony.

Well said needlenose, I know the same thing happens in the US music industry at places like Walmart – they tell the record companies what they will and won’t put on their shelves, and thus the record companies tell their artists what they can and can’t record.

The danger of big chain stores is that they focus on what is profitable, and once they’ve forced the smaller botique stores out of business, the customer is left with little to no choice. I’m not sure the Bunnings argument of “larger range” holds water – sometimes you’re forced to buy from the one or two brands/types they have in stock. I had this problem when trying to buy a plunger. They had two types, one all plastic and crap quality, one with a plastic handle and crap quality. I ended up borrowing one from a friend.

needlenose said :

But Steps 3 and 4 break down once the market is saturated by chains. For example, in retail books, the massive retailers are now so powerful that they are able to dictate to publishing houses what is and is not worth publishing. There have been significant changes in the last 20 years in the types of books which are published and how they are marketed, with many “mid-list” authors who had decent sales being abandoned in favour of the latest Dan Brown lookalike.

One solid-selling mid-list mystery writer in the US told me that she was now being required to write a book a year, for release at peak sale time. Which meant she had to submit a synopsis of the proposed new book within a few weeks of finishing the last book, which the publishers then tinkered with and got her to resubmit half a dozen times for the next six months or so, leaving her only 3 – 4 months to actually write the damn thing. Because that’s when the big chain bookstores want to be selling it.

I love my independent bookseller (hi Gayle at Gaslight!) because she can and will get in obscure or offbeat titles that I can’t find elsewhere (though a tip of the hat to the crime section at Dymock’s Belconnen – one of the better franchises). But far fewer of those books get to publication at all now, so the niche is narrowing.

Also, having spent nine years of my own life working in retail books, I know that there simply isn’t a level playing field in terms of buying stock. Books are generally sold to retailers at a percentage discount on the recommended retail price. So Borders will probably pay about $12 for a book with an RRP of $20, whereas an independent bookseller will only be able to buy that book at a discount of 10 – 15% or so – ie the same book costs them $18 to sell at $20. The larger store can sell that book for $15, advertise a 25% discount to its customers and still make a $3 profit; the independent can only make a $2 profit selling the book at full price.

So it’s not quite as easy as “here’s a gap in the market which an independent entrant can fill” – because both the product and the price are dictated by the large chains. It’s not impossible for an independent to succeed, but it is bloody difficult.

So that’s why Amazon charges exorbitant prices.

Oh wait, no it doesn’t.

Step 3 is within the original paradigm, I don’t believe it will ever ever ever get to that point. The economy is dynamic.

As for Step 4, Borders beats the crap out of the independents in both price (usually) and selection. You are right, their is significant economies of scale. That however has a limit and their are three points that stand out in your story.

1, Publishing houses. If that is the case, that is a perfect opportunity for an independent publishing house to rise up. We have them right now. I know of a publisher that is almost exclusively devoted to printing books that either call for the abolition of the Government, or claim that the US Civil War wasn’t a good idea.

2, Niche markets. The indies will cater to niche markets. The book industry is not uniform either and it will become less so. There is nothing wrong with that.

3, The internet. This is the great destroyer of the (dear god monopoly no) myth. Not only is it easy for bigger companies to compete all over the globe, it is disgustingly easy for extreme niche markets to operate (see point 1). I know people who sell their own book by themselves. Your mystery writer friend either needs to realise the decent position they are in, or sack up and stop sacrificing their creative vision. I’ll leave that choice to them.

4, Consumers are idiots. It sucks that people like Dan Brown over your hoity toity collection. I know the feeling I read weird books too. Get off your high horse.

5, Books are cheaper. I have a much greater range of selection at far less prices than just 5 years ago. All this doom and gloom doesn’t match reality.

Aeek said :

What I really hate about the new Canberra Centre is the parking that forces you to exit onto Bunda Street. Insane.

Which carpark exits onto Bunda St? I can only think of carparks that exit onto Cooyong/Ballumbri

But Steps 3 and 4 break down once the market is saturated by chains. For example, in retail books, the massive retailers are now so powerful that they are able to dictate to publishing houses what is and is not worth publishing. There have been significant changes in the last 20 years in the types of books which are published and how they are marketed, with many “mid-list” authors who had decent sales being abandoned in favour of the latest Dan Brown lookalike.

One solid-selling mid-list mystery writer in the US told me that she was now being required to write a book a year, for release at peak sale time. Which meant she had to submit a synopsis of the proposed new book within a few weeks of finishing the last book, which the publishers then tinkered with and got her to resubmit half a dozen times for the next six months or so, leaving her only 3 – 4 months to actually write the damn thing. Because that’s when the big chain bookstores want to be selling it.

I love my independent bookseller (hi Gayle at Gaslight!) because she can and will get in obscure or offbeat titles that I can’t find elsewhere (though a tip of the hat to the crime section at Dymock’s Belconnen – one of the better franchises). But far fewer of those books get to publication at all now, so the niche is narrowing.

Also, having spent nine years of my own life working in retail books, I know that there simply isn’t a level playing field in terms of buying stock. Books are generally sold to retailers at a percentage discount on the recommended retail price. So Borders will probably pay about $12 for a book with an RRP of $20, whereas an independent bookseller will only be able to buy that book at a discount of 10 – 15% or so – ie the same book costs them $18 to sell at $20. The larger store can sell that book for $15, advertise a 25% discount to its customers and still make a $3 profit; the independent can only make a $2 profit selling the book at full price.

So it’s not quite as easy as “here’s a gap in the market which an independent entrant can fill” – because both the product and the price are dictated by the large chains. It’s not impossible for an independent to succeed, but it is bloody difficult.

Actually that should be ‘yay we exchanged worthless pieces of paper for valuable goods’.

Also, apologies for the rude comment.

Canberra still has an artificial retail space market, tends to distort things.

On Canberra Centre, I still frequent Garema Place but have stopped going to the Old Canberra Centre unless I want DJs or Myer.

What I really hate about the new Canberra Centre is the parking that forces you to exit onto Bunda Street. Insane.

sepi said :

Step two – once there is only a mega chain left in the market they put their prices up – ala petrol stations. Everyone continues to buy there cos they have to.

Step 3 – Entrepreneur sees opportunity to compete and opens up store. Low barrier to entry and diseconomies of scale allow for competition.

Step 4 – Everyone wakes up from dreamland and wakes up to reality. Find themselves in a dynamic economy where people make different choices and have different desires. Monopolistic competitive scenario prevails.

If you don’t know what you are talking about its best not to talk.

Yes petrol prices have risen because the family businesses have gone away. Damn those greedy fatcats and their 2c/L profit margins.

As for $ flowing back to the US, what do you propose the US does with AUS $? They either have to spend them in Aus, sell them to someone who will spend them in Aus, or do neither and yay we just exchanged valuable goods for worthless pieces of paper.

I don’t think Central Cafe or the Watson takeaway are in the same market as Maccas, so I’m not sure your argument holds sway.

Besides – I hear Central Cafe has a place in Gungahlin as well as Queanbeyan nowadays. Does that make it a chain?

Step two – once there is only a mega chain left in the market they put their prices up – ala petrol stations. Everyone continues to buy there cos they have to. Remember how there used to be family run servos at local shops? What happened to them?

OR – would you prefer every local shop to have a tiny maccas, with $ flowing back to the US, and no variety whatsoever, or to maintain the status quo, with Central Cafe at one set of shops, watson takeaway doing great fish and chips at another etc.

This isn’t actually my scenario either – just google bunnings and anticonpetitive.

It is an extension of the ideas behind ‘buy australian’.

sepi said :

Supporting local business encourages variety and competition.

If everyone buys at large chain stores, eventually that will be all there is.
Ala – one mega Bunnings, instead of various local hardware shops.

So if everyone buys at large chain stores, and there is only large chain stores, then that is a bad thing? Everyone has chosen to buy there!

Not only is your scenario anathema to reality, it is internally absurd.

Apologies for the double post.

sepi said :

Supporting local business encourages variety and competition.

If everyone buys at large chain stores, eventually that will be all there is.
Ala – one mega Bunnings, instead of various local hardware shops.

Supporting the best value for money according to your personal subjective values does the same thing. There’s no prohibitive barrier to entry in the shoe market.

Sepi – I guarantee that the local independent hardware store could not order me in a 1/4 inch collet or 3 for my router – let alone help me with a biscuit cutter for the same.

Perish the thought I ask them for a bulk order to construct a retaining wall in my back yard – how would they cope?

Sometimes (Most times) larger stores have distinct advantages to smaller chains… in my experience at least..

Sure smaller stores may have more personalised service – but I prefer bunnings any day – they are also very helpful and have a very good skill set on their floor.

Magnet mart is the devil – totally crap service and product lines – I drive past it to get to Bunnings (20 minutes further away), so thats not to say that all large outlets are good – just vote with your feet which ones are..

Oh and smaller shops are good too – just horses for courses – I need lots of big stuff so I got o a big stuff store – I want unique hard to get parts – I go to larger stores…

Supporting local business encourages variety and competition.

If everyone buys at large chain stores, eventually that will be all there is.
Ala – one mega Bunnings, instead of various local hardware shops.

“Don’t worry, your Rivers boots will fall apart in a year or less- planned obsolescence.”

I agree with this. I’ve twice bought shoes from Rivers. Never again. No other pair of shoes I’ve ever owned has ever fallen apart quite so quickly.

Plus, their ads suck.

“Support a local small business, avoid chains and possibly pay a bit more for good service.”

And as for this… I know I’m going to regret asking this, but why should I support a local business more than I should support local employees of a national chain? Especially if, as someone here has suggested, it is a franchise? Surely that’s a “local business”. In any case, is there any rational thinking behind your suggestion to support a local business, or is it basically just “small business good, big business bad”? In which case I wonder, at what point do you stop supporting a local small business? If a local retailer has one shop, then according to your logic, it’s good, and I should support it. What if it has two? Or five? Or what if it opens an outlet in Sydney or Melbourne? Does it then become a chain, and hence something I should avoid?

tickboom said :

“Man buys shoes from shopping mall.” Rivetting stuff.

It’s true! Look at those laces – to my eyes they appear to be held on by some sort rivet.

Rivers is OK, in my book. I once went to Darwin and forgot to bring some pants for work. I went into Rivers, bought a pair of nice green chinos, went to my meetings and then returned them to the store and got my money back. Saved my @rse, did Rivers!

Is the Redpath store at Brand Depot any cheaper than their nook in Garema?

I would never purchase from Rivers on account of the way they screwed over their franchisees.

get a mac. oh wait, you have one. Well get a new one.

Don’t worry, your Rivers boots will fall apart in a year or less- planned obsolescence.

I remember being a wee teen walking past Redpaths with my parents and ogling the Docs they had. Never actually gotten around to saving enough money to buy a pair, but I’ve bought Cons there a couple of times after my old ones got so ratty the rubber had holes worn in it. I also frequently go in there to buy lip rings/replacement parts of lip rings or eyebrow rings for my fiance, and the staff there are always really sociable and friendly and have a chat with us about what gigs we’ve been to recently, et cetera. They have my loyalty because they seem to hire really cool people 🙂

And for those looking to get a piercing of their own, I recommend the establishment above Redpaths. It’s very clean and nice and they can give you info and products for first-timers.

I’ve bought almost all my boots/dress shoes at that dingy little cobbler/boot shop in Baileys Arcade. Support a local small business, avoid chains and possibly pay a bit more for good service.

tickboom said :

“Man buys shoes from shopping mall.” Rivetting stuff.

I, and many others I am sure, look forward to hearing about the next time you purchase underwear/toothpaste/dishwashing detergent.

did you mean riveting stuff, not the suburb??

sorry, nitpicking again.

It’s not about shoes.

It’s about supporting local business versus big companies, and what effect the parking being all shunted to the Canberra Centre may be having on the businesses closer in to Civic.

Or do I need to go back to kindy and learn to read?

“RiotACT commenter uses sarcasm to whine about local content”. Film at 11.

“Man buys shoes from shopping mall.” Rivetting stuff.

I, and many others I am sure, look forward to hearing about the next time you purchase underwear/toothpaste/dishwashing detergent.

Feel free to make your own observational posts RS.

welcome to the johnboy blog…

… nevermind, Wikipedia’s entry for the Viz comic sorted me out.

That’s not where the nickname came from, if that’s what you’re asking. 😛

So I guess you’re a fan of Harvey Norman and Domayne ads then, Fnaah?

Not really, but they’re not as offensively infuriating as the Rivers ones.

And do you also happen to enjoy watching Channel 9 per chance?

… not usually. I’m one of those weirdos who likes Ten.

And just as a matter of interest, you don’t happen to be a fan of double entendres and know a bloke called Finbarr Hawtrey Saunders, do you? 😉

I don’t mind the odd double entendre, but you lost me there, buddy. 🙂

fnaah said :

I refuse to enter Rivers stores based on the horrifyingly annoying and bargain-bin quality ads they insist on littering the television with.

YES!

Rivers is the devil.

fnaah said :

I refuse to enter Rivers stores based on the horrifyingly annoying and bargain-bin quality ads they insist on littering the television with. HIRE A MARKETING MANAGER…

So I guess you’re a fan of Harvey Norman and Domayne ads then, Fnaah? And do you also happen to enjoy watching Channel 9 per chance?

And just as a matter of interest, you don’t happen to be a fan of double entendres and know a bloke called Finbarr Hawtrey Saunders, do you? 😉

at the tuggeralong hyperdome, the rivers staff chat idly to themselves whilst you look at shoes. EXCUSE ME!

if I am looking at shoes, engage with me. ask me whether I need a hand.

If I am paying $129 for a pair of dress shoes, I want to be assisted.

otherwise, Myer will keep getting my business.

Garema Place has always been the heartbeat of Canberra ever since I was a very hot foxy young high school ‘chick’.

*hehe*

Garema has soul. Garema forever.

Fiona said :

I’ve been having trouble venturing out into Garema to visit redpath or landspeed. *sigh* with so many other shops indoors, and jb hifi no longer out there, there’s little motivation.

oh and no starbucks to browse the bookcrossing shelf at either

I like to go to the Impact Comics and Landspeed is always a must. Clouston and Hall is an interesting bookstore. They sell academic remainders (the Fyshwick warehouse is much better though).

I think it still has some attractive stores however I guess the cater to niche tastes.

I refuse to enter Rivers stores based on the horrifyingly annoying and bargain-bin quality ads they insist on littering the television with. HIRE A MARKETING MANAGER.

And why do they keep buying ads for their “concept store only” sales (Cooma!) in the Canberra tv market?

Pfft, I say to them. Pfft!

On the other hand, the last two pairs of Docs that I bought (at redpath, many moons ago) both wore out after a year. They’re not the same quality as they used to be.

Damn fine boots!

: )

You’ve done the right thing. I used to work at Rivers and while they were complete @rseholes to work for, their shoes are realy comfortable, generally long lasting (occasional bad batches of sole material), and many are made in Sebastopol Victoria.

In the last year I don’t think that I have gone closer to Garema Place then PJ’s, but I must have been to the new Canberra centre like 2 or 3 times. So they are definatly loosing out.

By your own moral code, you are right to feel guilt.

I’ve been having trouble venturing out into Garema to visit redpath or landspeed. *sigh* with so many other shops indoors, and jb hifi no longer out there, there’s little motivation.

oh and no starbucks to browse the bookcrossing shelf at either

You may as well have burned the store to the ground. Ingrate.

;-P