8 December 2005

Right-to-lifers force Catholics to dump Stanhope

| Kerces
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Chief Minister Jon Stanhope had been invited to give this year’s Rerum Novarum Lecture at the Melbourne Catholic Commission for Justice, Development and Peace on Friday 9-DEC-05 because of his stance on the terror laws and defiance of the Federal Government in posting the draft legislation on his website.

However, PM reports this invitation has been hurridly withdrawn after right-to-lifers made a fuss about Mr Stanhope’s role in legalising abortion.

Mr Stanhope received a letter which he told the ABC said “quite bluntly that unfortunately developments since [his being invited] have politicised the lecture with respect to life issues, as a result of which the Archbishop of Melbourne, the Most Reverend Denis Hart, has decided to withdraw the invitation to me”.

Mr Stanhope was to have spoken on a topic close to his heart, the development of an Australian bill of rights. However president of the ACT’s Right to Life campaign and of the Australian Federation of Right to Life Associations Kath Woolf said this was entirely unappropriate as Mr Stanhope’s measures to make the ACT more abortion friendly ignore UN conventions on the rights of the unborn child. There were fears on the part of the lecture organisers that right to life protests may have caused an ugly scene on Friday.

“I think it’s misleading of him to present himself in that way or to give advice to others on the matter of human rights statements, because he has, in my opinion, completely corrupted Article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights,” she told the ABC.

“And it was that that I said to Archbishop Hart, in view of his record, I think he’s the least appropriate person, actually, because people outside the church who don’t understand what’s happened, he should not be lecturing on how to go about a bill of rights, certainly not in a forum where it’s a formal address, it’s not a debate.”

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you’ve got to already be a big swinging duck to get a seat at the table. it entrenches existing power structures.

But power is based on more than just big business.

I stand enlightened, thanks JB, interesting read. Have to confess, I skimmed bits when I was reading John Ralston Saul, who’s had some interesting things to say on this stuff.

My view would probably be that much of the input in the modern corporatist structures still tends to come from the big end of town though.

Corporatism doesn’t necessarily refer to commercial corporations. Trade Unions having special access to government is as much “corporatist” as big business calling the shots.

Corporatism is most definitely a hallmark of fascism, the very term was coined by mussolini’s fascists, particularly when combined with collectivism.

Interestingly Ros Kelly once boasted that the Hawke/Keating Government was both Corporatist and Collectivist.

The Wikipedia entry is here

mmmm…I’m thirsty now

RG, oh how thee hath fallen.

As thee aut to know, imbibe enough ale into thine target, and the sex shall flow hencewith. That is why wine, in cruder terminology, is known as ‘legopener’.

Henceforth Saterble the splinter religion of Beerble, is a fraud !

Remember fellow followers, this month is Beercember. Drink as much beer as possible.

Mael is a false prophet. He is one of those splinter revisionist scum Beerble of the true Church of Saterbles that hold the true word, hence:


Chapter 1 Verse 1 Proverb 1: Beer and sex.
Proverb 2: Not neccessarily in that order.


PS. Burn Mael, burn in a sexless wowser hell!!


Just wondering whether the “beer” is a literal translation, or whether one could perhaps insert “cab sav”? If so, I am interested in hearing more about your religion and wish to subscribe to your newsletter!

Puggy Pearson2:21 pm 09 Dec 05


How do I join your cult?

Absent Diane12:38 pm 09 Dec 05

Yes but have you ever read the lost books of the spirits…. try some of their prayers after you have prayed to beer for a while… I find it a very fulfilling combo…

I too like stanhope

PP I’ve never found anything wrong with my religion.

Infact I can recite it here:


Chapter 1 Verse 1 Proverb 1: Beer.

I dunno, I shared my office with a messy German. Towels and socks everywhere. He liked good chocolate though.

I agree on the Church America line, the dominant influence has just shifted to another group. Who’s next? I think that we should follow the teachings of St Hubbins, the patron saint of quality footwear.

Btw, I like Stanhope. *ducks*

Absent Diane12:01 pm 09 Dec 05

but it does create interesting and involving discussion

Puggy Pearson12:00 pm 09 Dec 05


Read my post you ass clown. You can find something wrong with EVERY religion. The minority unfortunately tar the majority. Same can be said for left handers, or any other group.

I have never said that ALL people in any religion are anything, but its pumped up twits like yourself that like to draw a long bow towards conspiracy theories every time.

The reason it was ‘unrefuted’ was because the readership, unlike yourself, understood what I was saying. If you look hard enough there is a little bit of bad everywhere. Usually surrounded by a lot of good, which unfortunately overshadows it most of the time, Jew, Sikh, Catholic, or anything at all

Glad you clarified AD, your usual ‘tongue-in-cheek’ inflammatory statements aside, you can come across as shooting from the hip and aiming afterwards.

Bulldog, if you want to see a German being warlike, just have a messy workplace. Don’t sharpen their pencils after you use them, and leave tooth marks in their pens.

The might of the Allies can’t mobilize in time to ebb the wrath that is a German in a messed up workplace 🙂

Wholeheartedly I agree that religions cannot be blamed in recent times for the direction that we as humans have gone, although they did have that influence in the past, it’s easily researchable through History.

I am more frightened of Church America than I am of the Roman Catholics, but I have taken my own measures to avoid them at all costs.

And whoever it was saying that it’s a tendency for the righties to name call when they don’t have an argument, I think you’ll find that works on both sides of the agenda table.

Personally I favour tagline worthy comparisons to ridiculous situations, although they’ve either been a bit too raw, or I’m just not famous enough.

Absent Diane11:47 am 09 Dec 05

I am very hardcore atheist yet I welcome discussion with people with differing views, it’s fascinating and enlightening… only those who are scared of differing opinions refuse to listen to others…

As for the CM; he’s an idiot IMHO and the retraction of the invitation is apt. Would Howard ask Beasley to sepak at the Liberals AGM? Would MENSA ask George W to speak at one of their events?

I was about to say – stop reading Dan Brown; there’s so much more to the Catholic Church than the fucking Da Vinci Code! Granted it was an interesting read, but it is ultimately a work of FICTION! Reality check losers (how’s that for name calling).

IMHO those of you blaming Catholicism (or any religion for that matter) for being the root of all evil, find another wagon to jump on. ALL religions, races and nations have done shitty things in the past; however religious groups are the only ones that seem condemned for eternity for it?

For you fucktards who spout that Islam begets extremism and Catholicsim encourages pain, suffering, paedophilia etc. you are judging millions by the actions of a few.

A mate of mine was mugged and bashed by a group of aboriginal blokes a couple of years ago, yet if I carried on the same way about Australia’s indiginous culture the same way you all carry on about religion I would be brnaded a racist redneck. Just as if I were to spout that the Germans, for having being the impetus behind two world wars, were a warlike people and should not be trusted; once again I would be laballed a stupid redneck idiot.

For those that are banging on about the above, you are merley perpetuating untruths about cultures, beliefs and people and you obviously know very little about.

If you are suspicious of organised religions, you don’t have to be part of them(!), yet it seemsto me that some of you fear the unknown more than anything else. Try sitting back and listening rather than banging on with tired old arguments based on the opinions of others.

I believe they were called “Sacrilicious Grooves”

Absent Diane11:05 am 09 Dec 05

Yes I have heard their songs ‘Don’t Fugg with the Jesus’ and the seminal funk odessy classic ‘ I have an imaginery friend I call Dad who lots of people die needlessly for’

I’m just waiting for the Dead Sea Wax Rolls of the last supper session recordings to turn up. Jesus was a wicked black funk slap bass player and he could turn grass into ‘grass’.

Absent Diane10:46 am 09 Dec 05

I firmly believe that the catholic church developed AIDS and distributed to the 3rd world all under their science hating guise in an effort to wipeout any evidence of Jesus’ black blood line….Dan Brown you owe me for this one

“I’ve got a big bastard brush that I paint all religions with. ” – Hehehe…me too, me too.

Catholicism is just the example used here. I’ve got a big bastard brush that I paint all religions with.

By the way, the Bush administration is doing it’s level best to spread AIDS and misery throughout the developing world by blocking funding for condom distribution and abortion and I’m fairly sure that they are fundamentalist Protestant in their base. Credit where credit is due guys.

Anyone know why abstinence (historically) was imposed on Catholic priests? Nothing to do with “morals” or anything…it was money. They didn’t want priests to breed & hence spread the wealth of the Catholic church amongst their children. Something in that I reckon.

I’m not buying into the religous debate here (well..not right now anyway..hehe). But on the “right-to-life” issue…some comedy from the genius of Bill Hicks (RIP) ….

“Tell me if you’re so pro-life why don’t you link arms and block cemeteries?”

or even this…

“Wow, I’ve never seen a issue so divisive, its like a civil war isn’t it, even amongst my friends, who are all intelligent, they’re totally divided, some of my friends believe that these pro-life people are annoying idiots, other of my friends think these pro-life people, are evil f***s… how are we going to come to a consensus… you should hear some of the arguments around my house… they’re annoying, they’re evil, they’re idiots, they’re f***s! Brothers, sisters come together, for once can we all just hold hands, come together and think of them and evil-annoying-idiot-f***s.”

I know this is pretty much off topic but just need to reply to some of puggys remarks – love the way you find “you people” name-calling (granted, it should’ve been you stupid people) yet skankyho passes unmentioned.

And as for corporatism and it’s links to fascism, if you take a look at the historical record, you’ll find that corporations flourish under fascist regimes and said regimes tend to favour corporations over citizens with monotonous regularity.

By the way, please feel free to enlighten us as to what is wrong with Jews – you seem to have something on your ‘mind’ – presumably more serious than your (offensive and disappointingly unrefuted by RA’ers) belief that all Catholic priests are paeds and Sikhs and Muslims are terrorists.

I won’t disagree that fundamentalists in organised religions tend to screw things up pretty badly but this black and white view that they are the be all and end all in this picture is laughably simplistic.

Ditto Kerces. They have a great opportunity to make a difference but they choose to push their dodgy beliefs.

The bible actually suggests that it is ok to use measures such as condoms if it prevents a greater evil, ie death and suffering. But they ignore that in favour of teaching abstinence.

Vittens, I didn’t think I implied the Catholic Church is responsible for AIDS, just that their approach to a fairly simple and cheap prevention method isn’t helping to slow the spread of the disease.

If I did imply they were responsible, may I stand clarified.

At this stage the comments from Absent Diane, simto, Kerces, and Mossey indicate a belief that the Catholic Church is responsible for AIDS and overpopulation. I must say that I find it quite funny the degree to which people associate the Catholic Church with so much influence and power! It is quite flattering to the Church that you think it has so much influence! AIDS and overpopulation have a global context and are 99% influenced by complex factors such as poverty, unequal distribution of wealth between nations etc. To blame it all on the Church as you do is simplistic and lazy thinking. It is perhaps also what could be called ideological blindness….similar to what has lead to Stanhope’s incapacity to consider the broader implications of a Bill of Rights

Yea I saw a doco on ABC or SBS the other night that looked at AIDS prevention in Africa and the Catholics are still teaching people that there are tiny holes in condoms that the virus can get through.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure the the Crusades also stirred up all of the bitterness and militant behaviour that goes on between Jews and Muslims. Before then they co-habitated quite happily.

I also presumed AD was referring to the anti-birth control thinking when he mentioned AIDS because what’s the best way to prevent AIDS or HIV transmission? Use a condom!

Um, the Catholic Church, through its dogma against birth-control, has got to take at least some responsibility for problems of overpopulation in the third world.

To quote Spike Milligan, in giving charity, it’s often a good idea to send a prophylactic with every loaf of bread…

While I agree with the Chief Minister on the need for a Bill of Right here is where my own desire for narrow but absolute rights is prefereable to the CM’s broad and hazy approach which just begs for an interminable bunfight.

hoist on his own petard?

Puggy Pearson5:13 pm 08 Dec 05

He expresses his personal views non stop everywhere else they aren’t wanted. I guess the Micks had had enough if his hijacking of other people’s events.

I’m not the greatest fan of organised religion myself either, but each is as bad as the other. Catholic priests as paeds, Muslim extremists as terrorists, Sikhs as terrorists, Jews as something else. To say the the CC is to blame for the majority of the worlds woes is a little OTT.

I’ll side with the last line of Bonfire’s post

Absent Diane5:00 pm 08 Dec 05

Ignore the word draining mind went in funny directions…


Sorry but if I can get the opportunity to slag out on a religion which I think is archaic and does more damge to the planet I will…. I think people need to stop making excuses and religions should become accountable for how much they screwing this planet…. and On topic I think it is a shame Stanhope didn’t get a chance to express his views to catholics

Last time I checked over 90% of the world’s hospitals that care for victims of aids are operated by the Catholic Church. The tragedy of aids and over population has nothing to do with the Catholic Church, but everything to do with the inequitable distribution of the world’s resources….something I think you will also find the Catholic Church is a counter balance to…

Has the Catholic Church held back science? In some ways, yes…in other ways it has definitely progressed science….

Absent Diane4:37 pm 08 Dec 05

other things that come to mind are aids (espesh in africa) and over population draining … what a fantastic contribution to the planet…

i dont think its controversial to say that the roman catholic church has been instrumental in holding back science.

although their direct influence has waned due to the demise of monarchical/church control, in centuries past they would threaten with excommunication people who challenged church teachings. like galileo.

they also organised the crusades, and the crushing of various native cultures in any land that the european imperialists stuck a flag in.

teh splintering of the church caused by teh reformation had teh effect f tempering its more radical policies. the counter reformation was not as successful as claimed, and even countrys in which the counter reformation seemingly worked, its influence has dramatically waned.

off teh top of my head i can think of portugal where the catholic church backed the wrong side in a civil war. the result was the closure of seminaries and monasteries. appropriation of church property by the state etc. It wasnt until the 1930’s (coudl be wrong on this) that they were allowed back and even then the vatican and the portuguese govt have a contract in which the vatican agrees to certain restrictions on its activities.

although the roman catholics appear to be teh main bad guys, its pretty much all forms of organised religion which should be treated suspiciously. it is all about control and surrendering individual thought to group think.

Puggy Pearson4:21 pm 08 Dec 05

And I was unaware that the definition of fascist was so broad as to cover issues of ‘corporatism’…silly me

Puggy Pearson4:20 pm 08 Dec 05

‘You people’?

Now who’s the name caller? Pot this is kettle, over

Do you actually, at all, deep down believe puggy that the Chief Minister has any agenda whatsoever to return the means of production to the masses?

You people love trotting out the socialist tag but it’s almost as absurd as calling Howard a fascist(even considering his freedom hating, hard-core corporatist neo-con agenda).

Of course, I guess name calling is always the preferred option of the right (a la Bolt, Akerman and SkankyHo) when you don’t actually have an argument to put.

So it was OK for Stanhope to speak at the church on the Australian Bill of Rights until the Right to lifers bought up his position on ACT abortion laws. Sounds like someone only wants to hear from people that agree with them to me.

a bill of rights is nothing more than the intellectually lightweight hippy “I know better than you and I vote” brigade using ambiguity that comes with the listing of self evident rights without referencing the accompanying responsibilities, to legislate for the ignorant proletariat who cannot be trusted to elect legislators

but then he is the elected mayor so what does that say about the canberra proletariat…

Our Chief Minister is a knobchew; there’s no doubt about it!

Puggy Pearson4:02 pm 08 Dec 05

The CM has not been seen in a church for a long time. On its own that is nothing to be concerned about, but when it concerns his job, such as memorial services and the like, its clear that his socialist agenda isnt suited by associating himself tenuously with organised religion, except when approaching the Muslim community suits his personal agenda.

Back to the subject matter…our Chief can’t be trusted to speak in a public forum because he has a habit of using these forums to advance his own extreme left wing issues. The Feds don’t trust him and he has been banned from Citizenship ceremonies. What a great ambassador he is for Canberra.

Absent Diane needs to take a cold shower I think. How about offering some constructive comments instead of this extremist nonsensical stuff …comon, have a real go….

Puggy Pearson3:22 pm 08 Dec 05

Gosh almighty, so have Protestants, Muslims, Satanists, Wiccas, Sikhs.

Diane isn’t the only thing absent, so is logic

Absent Diane1:00 pm 08 Dec 05

Yes a fair bit of it.. so now you know…. they certainly havent been peace brokers… and they have done a lot to stop the advancement of human society with their corrupt morals and viewpoint of science

So Catholics are to blame for all the fighting and violence in the world? I’ve always wondered who was behind it all!

Absent Diane11:40 am 08 Dec 05

mmm does one else find the words catholic and peace together ironic… If they want world peace and justice my advice to the catholics would be to abort themselves…. its a shame old stannie didn’t have a chance to get stuck into them….

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