Scouts not subject to discrimination laws

johnboy 14 January 2007 147

[First filed: January 11, 2007 @ 17:49]

The ABC has an interesting piece on a win for the Scouts in the ACT after rovers (17-26 yr olds) booted out a bi-polar member, Guy Jones.

“Today the Tribunal’s deputy president Grant Lalor dismissed the application, saying it lacked substance.

He ruled that because scouting is a voluntary body, it is not subject to discrimination laws”

Is it discrimination to make someone unwelcome if you just don’t like them? (not that I know for sure that was the case here)

UPDATE: With the trepidation of a man walking up to a bonfire with a glass of petrol, I’d just like to point out to the front page browsers that the comments on this story are well worth a read.

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147 Responses to Scouts not subject to discrimination laws
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Guy Jones Guy Jones 12:40 pm 05 Feb 07

Sorry Maelinar, it wasn’t my intention to get stuck into you. Your comments have been much better considered than most of the others on here, and you’ve clearly taken a reasoned and objective view of things when posing your questions.

It’s just an extremely complicated matter which is hard to summarise in a few words, and I think its a little unfair that some have accused me of ‘ranting’ just because I’ve sought to get the real details across in a way which prevents misinterpretation.

I guess that’s one of the problems with bulletin boards though; anything over a couple of lines looks like an essay!

Maelinar Maelinar 7:38 am 05 Feb 07

No need to pull threads, just refrain from having the last word for a few moments…

Until then, people like us will continue baiting you.

Thanks for making me the new proxy leader of the opposite view, it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling – albeit wrong.

I don’t disagree that you have not been given a fair go, infact you should probably go to ACA or TT, they are crying out for stories.

Just don’t rush at it like a bull at a gate like you/your father/your brother did here.

terubo terubo 7:25 am 05 Feb 07

Whichever way you look at it, this has been poor PR for the Scouts.
-I, for one, will not be joining.

Guy Jones Guy Jones 7:12 pm 04 Feb 07

Maelinar and everyone else – I apologise in advance for this long post, as I know you don’t like reading lengthy pieces. There was once an easy answer to a complex question, but it was wrong. In any case, you’ll find the answers to your questions within, if you care to read on.

I was actually quite happy to let this thread die out – I’ve been away for work the during the week and before this I hadn’t looked at this page for nearly a week. It was my brother who continued it on, as he quite enjoys starting fights on bulletin boards. Unfortunately his ‘netiquette’ skills are pretty minimal, and has embarrassed himself and me by picking this thread to rant on. I apologise for what he has said and I do not condone it. Roland has had minimal involvement in this matter thus far and he certainly does not speak for me. Unfortunately he has sparked some critical comment which I need to address.

Before now I have at no point ‘attacked’ anyone on this board, merely stated the facts in the face of a barrage of attacks and abuse from onetwothree, getitright, iluka and others. Isn’t it wonderful how onetwothree can tell me to ‘stop attacking’ in one sentence, and call me a jerk in the next… typical.

As this is MY life and MY medical condition being discussed here in the public domain, I will exercise my right to be involved in the discussion, provide the RIGHT information to combat the gossip, and defend myself when necessary. This is the only reason I got involved here in the first place.

Neither I nor my father have told any lies here or given any misleading information or inferences. Any suggestions to the contrary are simply false, and come from people who have either done the wrong thing themselves or who have been fed their information from such people. There’s a few hundred pages of documentary evidence plus a good hour or so of audio recordings to back up everything I’ve said and which reinforce the legitimacy of my complaint.

My efforts to seek redress through the legal system were not just some ‘tyrade’ or ‘vendetta’. These were a last resort administratively after 18 months of pleas to Scouts ACT for an investigation (while the abuse continued), to put my life back together and seek justice for what was done to me. At one point there, I even wanted to go back to Rovers, to finish my Baden Powell Award, though of course now I wouldn’t associate with the people involved here if I was paid to.

But most importantly, I took the steps I did in an attempt to stop anyone else from being abused. I am not the only member to receive treatment like this from Scouts ACT. For example, I myself have received accounts from five other adults who claim that in the last few years they have been unfairly expelled or disadvantaged by Scouts ACT for reasons which could amount to discrimination or other forms of misconduct – three alleged breached of the Discrimination Act and one even claims to have been removed for questioning information relating to some financial transactions involving Scouts ACT’s Executive Officer at the time, who it is alleged is an undischarged bankrupt.

The exemption Scouts ACT claimed (s.31) was intended as a ‘means to comply’ test – Scouts ACT is a far larger organisation than that which was intended by the Act, and there are other provisions which provide all the protection Scouts ACT would ever need (notably s.8). Despite them failing five of the six requirements to claim the exemption, Mr Lalor gave it to them based on a self-cited line in their purported ‘constitution’.

I challenge Scouts ACT and Neville Tomkins, if they really believe they have no case to answer and that they do not discriminate, to ditch their claim to exemption from the Act and allow my complaint to be heard in the Discrimination Tribunal. A Scout is (supposedly) respectful; give me the respect of a fair hearing, seeing as you’ve given me none thus far. Scouts ACT have pro-bono legal representation, and there are no court costs in the DT. If they’re so confident that they’ve done nothing wrong, what do they have to lose?

But in any case, since the majority of people on here are keen to see this thread pulled, I urge Johnboy to do so.

onetwothree onetwothree 4:57 pm 31 Jan 07

I agre with the idea that this should be taken off-line. Everyone’s said what they want to say, not that any of it has had any real impact on the opposing side. No conclusion will ever be made here, and no one will ever step up and say ‘I’m so sorry, it was actually me who was wrong, please forgive me’.
Guy, stop attacking, you’re never going to forget it and move on if you keep this up. Just stop being a jerk and take this page off your bookmarks.

el el 3:14 pm 31 Jan 07

I agree with Absent Diane. Most sensible post in this thread.

bubzie bubzie 2:00 pm 31 Jan 07

^ i agree.

Just reading all these comments, it sounds exactly like an episode of jerry springer, with all of this crap.

So really, just take it offline. the only people your embarrassing around here is well, yourself!

snahon snahon 1:39 pm 31 Jan 07

Clearly you are all playing the “he said/she said” and the “you don’t know the full story” cards so why don’t you get on CSI Miami/NY/LV and get them to piece a timeline of events so you can all aportion blame.

Mind you, as an outsider this is midly amusing watching [presumably] adults act like children.
You all should get real, get over it and get a life – it is only scouts.

SteveLemon SteveLemon 1:21 pm 31 Jan 07

Tribeca: (assuming its not just a new name for an old character) I’m not going to waste too much time rebutting your “hit & run” approach, but i can assure you that cubs is a great place for your youngins, and as you are so fond of googling.. google “agoonaree” – thats about all you need to know.

Roland: I am amused you don’t remember me.. you signed my CD and all.. 🙂 Actually, knowing Guy, its exactly what i think he’d do.

and FYI – its not really a ‘loophole’ as you put it.. its the definition of the act, and it means the act doesn’t apply to Scouts. Thats a pretty major show stopper really.

I don’t really like you attacking me, never said that i was out of it, never said i wasn’t friends with GJ, i just have very little contact with him anymore, Its not that i’m hurt that he wants ‘justice’, what hurts me is the acusations about my friends, that i know have done nothing wrong.

Perhaps you should consider how much of the story you know.

Absent Diane Absent Diane 9:16 am 31 Jan 07

scouts = mega nerdy.. i did it for a bit and found everyone so nerdy and god bother like that I left.

Perhaps there should be a youth group thing where kids learn how to take drugs properly, learn correct street talk and are taught how to be cool, unlike nerdy scouts.

Maelinar Maelinar 9:03 am 31 Jan 07

Roland, Guy, et al.

Really, seriously, do you think we give a f*ck ?

Your entire family seems predisposed towards writing these long and rambling tirades – you should all go on a course or something to address that.

Myself and Thumper have made it very well known that we hang out at the Durham Arms every Friday after work, so rather than jumping to your silly little conclusion, how about doing some research first ?

I’ve also asked some questions of your family that I thought pertinent that have been quite ignored – is that because the topic was a little sensitive ?

Open dialogue goes both ways, and it would appear from my perspective that your family seems to have just about as much in hiding as the Scouts.

Guy Jones Guy Jones 11:25 pm 30 Jan 07

P.S. This is not Guy. Before you jump to any conclusions, this is his Brother, Roland.

I made a post without signing out of his account. I made a mistake, and I apoligise to him for that.

If you have any questions/comments about this little mistake, don’t take it out on him, CALL ME. I’m happy to post my phone number on this site. Just bear in mine that I too work, and I can’t answer the phone in regular working hours. It is 0402915943.

I am better then those people who hide behind their computer screens!

Guy Jones Guy Jones 11:18 pm 30 Jan 07

If scouts didn’t disctiminate, just like Neville fucking Tomkins said then why do they need to hide behind this ludacris loophole?

getitright, you are a little shit stirer. Just from what you have been saying, I wouldn’t put it past anyone that you are involved in this matter. What you’re doing is pretty harsh. Seems to me that you’re out for revenge. You take something that was intended as a joke, and obviously intended for people with a higher mental age then yours, and you made it sound like he’s a fucking whacko. Bighead got it! Revenge attack; piss weak from someone in your position…

If anyone should grow some balls, it’s you. Why don’t you tell everyone who you are, and why you’re here? I’ll tell you why. It’s because you don’t want the general public, and the people in scouting knowing what a slimy little meat head you are. You have something to hide.

Steve Lemmon, you sound like you were friends with Guy. If the only reason you’re not friends with him now is because if a splitting of friendship groups you are just as small as getitright. It sounds to me like you were close to the people involved, but in reality had nothing to do with this matter. Why are you choosing to take sides? You’re making it sound like Guy is making such a whooha about nothing. From someone who knows Guy, do you really think he would do something like this, to go so far with such a “trivial” issue just for the fun? Is he really that kind of person? Or is it that he was hurt so badly, that he feels so strongly about getting justice?

It is one of these two things. He is cold bastard that does stupid shit for the hell of it and was wrongly identified by his friends; or his “friends” (directed at you, Steve Lemmon)didn’t know him as well as they thought they did. I tend to move towards the latter…

My comments still stand about getitright until they identify themselves. Lets all just see how much integrity you have…

terubo terubo 8:16 am 30 Jan 07

The only ADHD I’ve ever had is After Drinking Head Disorder.

Thumper Thumper 8:07 am 30 Jan 07

Well picked up Seepi,

I think I worded that wrongly and I must have been pissed posting at 0315.

I also said they are fine these days, in fact they were generally pretty good anyway, always polite to others, respectful of others property, etc. Yep, they could also be a handful at times but boys will be boys.

And they had a mum who molly coddled them.

Yes, I’m sure ADHD does exist, but nowhere to the extent that doctors and current affairs programs want you to believe.


seepi seepi 9:56 pm 29 Jan 07

thumper – you said your kids had it. Then you said it is really inadequate parenting – something you want to tell us??

peter241 peter241 7:28 pm 29 Jan 07

Hey Guy, I knew you from Gang Show back in the 80’s. Daniel Lalor was a cub with the now closed Kippax Group. Daniel left when he was in scouts. Shame, because he was a pretty cool kid. Don’t know much more than that. Grant Lalor wasn’t involved in scouting other than being just a parent of a scout.

Thumper Thumper 3:15 am 28 Jan 07

Funny thing about ADHA, two of my sons where diagnosed with it…

They are both fine these days, thank you…

And yet, 30 years ago, if it existed, I would have been diagnosed the same….

I can’t recall anyone I went to school with having ADHD. Yes, I went to school with people who were slow learners, shits, pains in the arse, disrptive, dickheads, etc, but no-one with ADHD…

Sorry if I think it’s a crock of shit made up by doctors to cover for inadequate parenting.

bubzie bubzie 8:40 pm 27 Jan 07

i actually do have slight adhd, and i’ve been in scouts for almost 10 years now.

and no, i’ve never thought that scouts were discriminative. Its most likely just one group, that just spoils the whole thing.

(and for the record, they are polo shirts 🙁 lol)

But i agree, just reading one thing in the media, and thinking ‘omg scouts is so discriminative, im not letting my son or anyone i know join it’ is just stupid.

So really, your the one who should grow a brain, and some balls for that matter as well..


Special G Special G 8:28 pm 27 Jan 07

ADHD is a good way of saying parents who can’t impose discipline/ good diet on their child. It’s funny how so many people have something once you give it a name. When I was growing up no one had ADHD etc.

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