Simon's vision for Tuggeranong

c_c™ said :

1974 dude, the wanted a lake in the town centre going back to 1974 and that needs a natural water course. So they didn’t have much choice.

Back to 1971 and the main shops for all of Tuggeranong were to be sited near present day Namadgi school.

Fast forward to post 1980 and only then did plans for West Tuggeranong get fully interrogated and finally decided against.

That may well have been the plan, but it wasn’t FINALLY decided until 1984 after which point West Murrumbidgee (if you think it was part of Tuggeranong then drop the capital) had already been canned and they built the town centre were it is NOW knowing full well it wasn’t in the centre. Not that it needs to be either (Belconnen isn’t centre either), but that is what MrPC was carping on about.

JC said :

at no point was Greenway meant to be the centre of Tuggeranong. As one poster above said they built the town centre where it is to enable them to build the lake on Tuggeranong Creek, and the final decision and construction of this started well after the West Murrumbidgee development had been canned.

1974 dude, the wanted a lake in the town centre going back to 1974 and that needs a natural water course. So they didn’t have much choice.

Back to 1971 and the main shops for all of Tuggeranong were to be sited near present day Namadgi school.

Fast forward to post 1980 and only then did plans for West Tuggeranong get fully interrogated and finally decided against.

Everywhere you look, you think “Gosh, that’s interesting”.

“The variation also proposes changes to the parking and vehicular access general code to reduce carparking requirements for new offices in the Tuggeranong town centre from 2.5 to 2 car spaces per 100m2 of Gross Floor Area (GFA).”

Why is this Simon? Another green sop to your boss, Mayor Rattenbury? Tuggeranong won’t get light rail in my lifetime and the existing bus service is crap with no prospect of improving.

R. Slicker said :

gooterz said :

Tuggeranong had been planned for ages before then. Take the Tuggeranong parkway for example. It used to follow down Kambah pool road leading into West Tuggeranong, alas after they started this they were told they couldn’t build in west Tuggeranong because some endangered frog/bird/lizard/puma. They ripped up part of the parkway where it had a T intersection with drakeford drive and connected the two into a single road.

This is rubbish. As a young teenager I used to ride my bike from Woden to Kambah Pool. In 1975 Tuggeranong Parkway (or Drakeford Drive) terminated in a T-intersection with Marconi and Boddington Cres. Tuggeranong Parkway was supposed to link with what is now Kambah Pool Road. The Vikings BMX park now occupies that space. Kambah Pool Road was supposed to be an extension of Tuggeranong Parkway and a series of bridges were supposed to lead over the Murrumbidgee into West Murrumbidgee. Access to Kambah Pool was gained via Boddington Cres, Crozier Circuit and Drysdale Circuit where the old dirt Kambah Pool Rd began. When the golf course was constructed the present sealed configuration of Kambah Pool Road was extended up to Sulwood Drive/Namatjira Drive.

No part of Tuggeranong Parkway was ever ripped up and it never followed Kambah Pool Road.

Apart from the bit where the other poster said they ripped up part of the parkway, which wouldn’t have been known as that back then, your both more or less saying the same thing!

As for my original comment, again not disagreeing that the land west of the Murrumbidgee was earmarked for development and no doubt the road we now know as the Tuggeranong Parkway was meant to go down that direction to feed both Tuggernaong and West Murrumbidgee (like it feeds and splits Weston Creek and Woden), and no doubt Tuggeranong was planned years before too.

My point was the land west of the Murrumbidgee was meant to be it’s own township of circa 50,000 people, not part of Tuggeranong and even if we disagree on that point, at no point was Greenway meant to be the centre of Tuggeranong. As one poster above said they built the town centre where it is to enable them to build the lake on Tuggeranong Creek, and the final decision and construction of this started well after the West Murrumbidgee development had been canned.

c_c™ said :

Notice the contradictions within and inaccuracies of this post. Laughable effort, or lack there of.

What contradictions and inaccuracies are they? It seems to me the only thing different with what you said to what I have said is semantics and you have added some more context.

c_c™ said :

Murrumbidgee River was never off limits for development. In fact when the first release of Tuggeranong was announced by the NCDC as incorporating the river as a feature.

West Tuggeranong, also referred to as West Murrumbidgee, was until into the 80s the NCDC’s favoured plan for the area. The target population for Tuggeranong was in the order of 160,000. For the record, it’s only 89,000 at present.

No contradiction with what I wrote, though I will claim the area was meant to be it’s own township called ‘West Murrumbidgee” (note the capital W) and not part of township Tuggeranong. You may well see references to West Murrumbidgee, Tuggernong when referring to West Murrumbidgee, but the Tuggernaong will be referring to the district of Tuggeranong, as distinct to the urban “township” of Tuggeranong. They are different.

c_c™ said :

Environmental politics in the 80s led to the West Tuggeranong development being put on the back burner, and the emphasis became trying to put achieve the target population within the Tuggeranong Creek Valley only.

Environmental coupled with developer politics then further hampered development. For example, development stalled repeatedly on the massive block opposite Southern Cross Club. Now finally home to medium density residential and the new government office building, it was originally intended to be a giant campus to rival the Benjamin offices, as were the blocks behind Tuggeranong stretching to Pine Island.

As I said, with a little more, except I called it West Murrumbidgee and said late 70’s.

c_c™ said :

You’re claim about Erindale cherry picks perhaps one moment in Tuggeranong’s planning, and not one I’m aware of. In the first incarnation of Tuggeranong in 1971, the NCDC laid out plans for Village Creek, now Kambah. The intention was to have a northern shopping centre and a southern shopping centre that is larger and would one day serve all of Tuggeranong. Based on original plans (which had a slightly different alignment for the ‘Tuggeranong Freeway’, that would have placed the southern centre around where the Namdgi School now is.

What did I cherry pick? All I mentioned was Erindale was geographically centre (though surprised no one picked me up on that as the geographic centre is a little more south in probably around Monash).

In fact the extra info which you have added helps confirm what I am saying, which was the town centre as we know it today was never intended to be in the centre, which is the claim I was debunking. The decision to finally built the towncentre where it is now was made circa 1983/84 knowing full well that the development west of the Murrumbidgee (regardless of name) had been canned.

From what your saying Erindale was going to be the north centre with one further south. The debate in the article about making Erindale (a) town centre now makes sense, though clearly they decided in 1984 to abandon that idea and build the town centre on the edge where it is now, by which time they had also canned development west of the Murrumbidgee.

So frankly I stand by my original comment that it is bullshit to say Greenway and the Tuggernaong Town Centre were meant to be in the ‘centre’ of Tuggeranong. Clearly they never were.

gooterz said :

JC said :

MrPC said :

So when will the western half of the Tuggeranong region be built? Greenway was supposed to be the town centre, not the urban-rural fringe.

Bulls***. Tuggeranong has always been limited in how far west it can go by the Murrumbidgee River.

For what it is worth Erinindale is and always was planned to be the geographic centre of Tuggeranong, not Greenway, though it is debatable if Erindale was planned as the town centre (but scaled down) or as a group centre. History shows it stayed as a group centre.

There were however plans for development of the land west of the Murrumbidgee called West Murrumbidgee, (not Tuggeranong). This plan was dropped by the NCDC in the late 70’s, but has popped up several times since, including in an article below and more recently. But as mentioned this was never part of Tuggeranong, and the Town Centre was built where it is kowing full well it is not the geographic centre of Tuggeranong and never would be.

Here is an article from 1984 that talks about the start of construction of the town centre noting it was not central and that development west of the Murrumbidgee was unlikely. (4th and 5th columns)

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/116388874?searchTerm=tuggeranong%20town%20centre%20plan&searchLimits=

Tuggeranong had been planned for ages before then. Take the Tuggeranong parkway for example. It used to follow down Kambah pool road leading into West Tuggeranong, alas after they started this they were told they couldn’t build in west Tuggeranong because some endangered frog/bird/lizard/puma. They ripped up part of the parkway where it had a T intersection with drakeford drive and connected the two into a single road.

This is rubbish. As a young teenager I used to ride my bike from Woden to Kambah Pool. In 1975 Tuggeranong Parkway (or Drakeford Drive) terminated in a T-intersection with Marconi and Boddington Cres. Tuggeranong Parkway was supposed to link with what is now Kambah Pool Road. The Vikings BMX park now occupies that space. Kambah Pool Road was supposed to be an extension of Tuggeranong Parkway and a series of bridges were supposed to lead over the Murrumbidgee into West Murrumbidgee. Access to Kambah Pool was gained via Boddington Cres, Crozier Circuit and Drysdale Circuit where the old dirt Kambah Pool Rd began. When the golf course was constructed the present sealed configuration of Kambah Pool Road was extended up to Sulwood Drive/Namatjira Drive.

No part of Tuggeranong Parkway was ever ripped up and it never followed Kambah Pool Road.

I just hope they don’t cut off the lake (visually and accessibility to the general public) like they did at Kingston foreshore. Still, glad they have realised how key the views of the mountains are for everyone in Tuggeranong – it would be a crime to build high and interrupt the vista. I also hope they are preserving the signature red roofing.

JC said :

MrPC said :

So when will the western half of the Tuggeranong region be built? Greenway was supposed to be the town centre, not the urban-rural fringe.

Bulls***. Tuggeranong has always been limited in how far west it can go by the Murrumbidgee River.

For what it is worth Erinindale is and always was planned to be the geographic centre of Tuggeranong, not Greenway, though it is debatable if Erindale was planned as the town centre (but scaled down) or as a group centre. History shows it stayed as a group centre.

There were however plans for development of the land west of the Murrumbidgee called West Murrumbidgee, (not Tuggeranong). This plan was dropped by the NCDC in the late 70’s, but has popped up several times since, including in an article below and more recently. But as mentioned this was never part of Tuggeranong, and the Town Centre was built where it is kowing full well it is not the geographic centre of Tuggeranong and never would be.

Here is an article from 1984 that talks about the start of construction of the town centre noting it was not central and that development west of the Murrumbidgee was unlikely. (4th and 5th columns)

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/116388874?searchTerm=tuggeranong%20town%20centre%20plan&searchLimits=

Notice the contradictions within and inaccuracies of this post. Laughable effort, or lack there of.

Murrumbidgee River was never off limits for development. In fact when the first release of Tuggeranong was announced by the NCDC as incorporating the river as a feature.

West Tuggeranong, also referred to as West Murrumbidgee, was until into the 80s the NCDC’s favoured plan for the area. The target population for Tuggeranong was in the order of 160,000. For the record, it’s only 89,000 at present.

Environmental politics in the 80s led to the West Tuggeranong development being put on the back burner, and the emphasis became trying to put achieve the target population within the Tuggeranong Creek Valley only.

Environmental coupled with developer politics then further hampered development. For example, development stalled repeatedly on the massive block opposite Southern Cross Club. Now finally home to medium density residential and the new government office building, it was originally intended to be a giant campus to rival the Benjamin offices, as were the blocks behind Tuggeranong stretching to Pine Island.

You’re claim about Erindale cherry picks perhaps one moment in Tuggeranong’s planning, and not one I’m aware of. In the first incarnation of Tuggeranong in 1971, the NCDC laid out plans for Village Creek, now Kambah. The intention was to have a northern shopping centre and a southern shopping centre that is larger and would one day serve all of Tuggeranong. Based on original plans (which had a slightly different alignment for the ‘Tuggeranong Freeway’, that would have placed the southern centre around where the Namdgi School now is.

By 1974, the NCDC had determined to build a lake for Tuggeranong to be a feature of the ‘Tuggeranong Town Centre”, by damming a water course, and of course in the Tuggeranong Valley this means damming Tuggeranong Creek.

JC said :

MrPC said :

So when will the western half of the Tuggeranong region be built? Greenway was supposed to be the town centre, not the urban-rural fringe.

Bulls***. Tuggeranong has always been limited in how far west it can go by the Murrumbidgee River.

For what it is worth Erinindale is and always was planned to be the geographic centre of Tuggeranong, not Greenway, though it is debatable if Erindale was planned as the town centre (but scaled down) or as a group centre. History shows it stayed as a group centre.

There were however plans for development of the land west of the Murrumbidgee called West Murrumbidgee, (not Tuggeranong). This plan was dropped by the NCDC in the late 70’s, but has popped up several times since, including in an article below and more recently. But as mentioned this was never part of Tuggeranong, and the Town Centre was built where it is kowing full well it is not the geographic centre of Tuggeranong and never would be.

Here is an article from 1984 that talks about the start of construction of the town centre noting it was not central and that development west of the Murrumbidgee was unlikely. (4th and 5th columns)

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/116388874?searchTerm=tuggeranong%20town%20centre%20plan&searchLimits=

Tuggeranong had been planned for ages before then. Take the Tuggeranong parkway for example. It used to follow down Kambah pool road leading into West Tuggeranong, alas after they started this they were told they couldn’t build in west Tuggeranong because some endangered frog/bird/lizard/puma. They ripped up part of the parkway where it had a T intersection with drakeford drive and connected the two into a single road.