Surprising new charges at restaurants - and some oldies as well

Also when i was a chef – it was really different rules in different places in regards to the distribution of tips.

Some kept them only for floor staff – some distributed it equally between non senior staff – some places pooled it and had a night out bi-annually.

Waiters can make a poor meal good and save th ekitchen on bad nights, likewise, the kitchen coul dbe having a great night but every meal is ruined by poor waiters.

They are more than just plate carriers, they can make or break a restaraunt.

hells kitchen is a sham and a marketing exercise.

Each “customer” is paid in advance an appearance fee for being on the show.

Just another gear in the corporate machine that is Gordon (Henry) Ramsey

Ok chef – smart guy.

Hi all – all really great points. In regards to the last couple of comments, don’t take for granted that the “great service” and the timing of the service comes down to some pretty important people…yep, the kitchen brigade. If they can’t run their kitchen, get food out on time, and at a great standard – doesn’t matter how sweet your waiter is – customers get unhappy.

While this is based on personal experience rather than TV, look at the crap show that is Hells Kitchen. Not a great show, but illustrates that no matter how great the service is, if the kitchen isn’t working well, guests leave.

Steady on there… Guests usually tip the service , not particularly the food. A good waiter will look after a table and ensure they are having a good time, not just throw food at them and ignore them. But i think that’s already been discussed ad nauseum on this thread.
Incidentally, i worked at one restaurant where the tips were collected and divided between all the waitstaff and chefs. It kind of sucked if you knew you’d been working your arse off and others had been slack, but i suppose them’s the breaks. Another restaurant i worked at didn’t even offer the kitchen tips, and they never asked for them. Then again, it was a hotel restaurant, and tips were few as most people just signed the meal to their room and walked away… people don’t seem to think of tips if they aren’t handling actual money.

/rambling post

And thats exactly the point I was sayin Caulfield and Ant – how is that fair when they’re only plates on wheels (bring the food to your table).

I think alot more effort comes from the people in the Kitchen and they’re the ones that should collect any tip if there was one…

ant said :

the kitchen gets a share of the tips? No they bloody-well don’t! And if the chef gets a share, no one else does.

Yes, I was going to mention that. I was a dishpig while studying and not only did the place I work generally have 6 waiting staff to 2 kitchen staff (1 chef, 1 dishpig/assistant), but we never saw any sign of the tips the wait staff “earned” through sitting on their arse all night, haha.

Gratuity charge is way over the top for Australia, America: definitely normal, Europe: to be expected. If the service/food was not up to a high standard I would refuse to pay a set ‘tip.’ But if the service and food were good 10%-15% if it was average then 5%-10%.

the kitchen gets a share of the tips? No they bloody-well don’t! And if the chef gets a share, no one else does.

Speaking of tips once in Singapore a while ago we had a pretty big night out in Chimes and I had my credit card over the bar. End of the night gave them a $100 tip and woke up the next day hungover to the max. Was going through a few receipts and noticed the 100 tip had an extra 0 added by one of the staff. So in my drunken state ended up paying $1000 tip yipee

regardless needlenose, not that I am a well internationally travelled person, but I worked in hospitality for almost a decade a as chef, and I eat out often, and IMO the US has the best table service I have ever experienced.

I think if I am going to pay a little extra on top of what is already a damn sight cheaper dining by Australian standards, then I do not mind.

The end result of wait staff relying on tips is lower food cost and better service.
At the end of it all, you probably pay just as much as you do in AU but the table service is so much better.

As for tips in australia, if I have a good meal with great service ill tip.

If the service was the minimum to keep me happy I will not…

Cakeage and corkage as previously discussed is fine.

Cancellation fee is a bit rich depending on numbers, but when I had my chef hat on and we had catering for people – we request a cut off for numbers and will charge on those numbers even if people cancel.

This is because all teh food has to be purchased on the numbers supplied and if people cancel, its the establishment that misses out.

If I got charged a cancellation fee because my a’la’carte booking of 4 was now 3 then that’s a bit steep.

I generally only charged for cancellations when it was a pre ordered and arranged function booking – and the cancellation fee was no refund on non attencence..for all or a few..Hard isn’t it, but why should teh establishment foot the bill for a lot of food it would not have needed.

OK, I used to own my own restaurant. Every dollar counts. Like all business owners I had huge overheads. When you own a small venue and have it taken up with a large table of customers who bring their own wine and cake your small profit margin is even less. For each bottle of BYO wine staff have to provide glassware and a wine cooler then clear the glasses and wash them up. For each cake brought we have to store it, serve it complete with candles, forks and side plates. The same has to be cleared and washed. Often for a Woolies mudcake. That’s not to mention how much we have lost through loss of dessert sales.

I have even had arguments with customers who thought bringing cask wine and a six-pack of muffins was OK. At what point do we say “enough” ? Should we accept customers bringing crackers and dip for pre-dinner drinks ? How is that different to bringing their own dessert ?

Mouthface,

While I agree with some points, I disagree with others that you have made.

Namely, people bring in their own birthday cake because it’s more personal IMO.

It’s not the same but similar to getting others to buy presents for someone.

The thought is gone.

Anyway, thanks to you and enrique for giving me a few laughs on an otherwise dull day.

The US system is stuffed – not only do tips supplement low wages; the waitstaff are actually TAXED on what the government estimates their tips ought to be. If they get more than that, they’re supposed to declare it for tax as well. If they get less, tough. It’s the government’s way of catching what are essentially cash in hand transactions, but it means that if someone stiffs the waitstaff on tips, the consequence is more than just not getting the money – they’re actually out of pocket.

Can’t really see why anyone would object to paying cakeage. I organised a big party at the Ottoman last year, with the degustation menu. But because it was a special occasion, I wanted to get one of those completely OTT cakes from that place in Queanbeyan, made to my own design. The Ottoman maitre d’, who was great throughout, said that would be fine; the charge would be the same, but instead of the dessert course they would store, present, plate serve etc the cake. Seemed very fair to me. (And in the event I was too late to order my OTT cake, and not only did they put together lovely desserts for 80 guests at short notice, they made me a special one of my own.)

Before it’s finished I have one question and a few comments.

Is vg going to charge mouthface a cakeage fee for removing his card from mouthface’s cake hole?

I think mouthface and ulyssesSB kind of missed enrique’s point about PR. Not withstanding the equally valid points about the legitimacy of charging for services provided. I understand and accept corkage fees as I do understand the fact a service is still being supplied, but, in most cases, I also don’t think it is too much to ask to offer that service gratis. Who knows, doing so, might even earn you a tip, haha.

And one last one … arseface, I think it is time you shut your mouth. Better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Hey Madman,

I was basing these facts while working in the industry in both Aussie & UK. I can’t comment for the US. Nothing would surprise me on what they do over there!? Talk about maintaining a false economy. I’d love to take a lower wage and get the majority of my pay via tips (if it was enforced like in the US), then be paid the majority of my income tax free!

on a drunken level that is…

Now please, for the sake of humanity – can people PLEASE stop encouraging this debate. It is chasing it’s tale and facts are being regurgitated and a drunken level. Let us agree to disagree. I’ll eat out, you’ll eat in. Fair?

astrojax said :

Why should you expect them to serve you for free

why, ulysses? becuase it is their job and they get awage to do so. do you tip every shop assistant , every service station counter operator?

now, tipping for service above and beyond expectations is justified. paying a ‘service charge’ is a rort.

Although I get the feeling that this thread is starting to go in circles, and people are just repeating the same ol’ thing I will post a lil’ summit. I DO AGREE that a service charge is pretty silly. I don’t really get the point of it, but I’ll pay it if a place has it. However, corkage and cakeage on BYO items is in my opinion perfectly reasonable.

Tipping, (I read somewhere above) has been explained as not being charged but offered rather by the customer. In the States, it has a different meaning – and IS a service charge under the masquerade of ‘tip’. Much in the same linguistic quirk as they refer to a main meal as an ‘entree’.

In response to the last part – I think it is agreeable that most dinners will cost you over 40 bucks IF you actually go to a restaurant and not a cafe of the like. Now, personally, if I buy a book for $49 dollars and pay with a fifty, I’ll let the counter clerk keep the change. And although it equates to a lesser tip on percentage – the level of work far outweighs the tip size.

Skaboy – Do you do tyres/brakes for motorbikes?

I wouldn’t tip your staff skaboy, this is true, but if I was happy with the service provided (and those courtesy air fresheners score big with me!)then you would be assured of my repeat business and me passing on recommendations to my friends. That would be your reward.

I can’t defend tipping in some industries and not in others ska, but I do pay hourly ‘labour’ charges for work done on my car. ‘Labour’ is the mechanics equivalent of corkage. Perhaps we could avoid all labour charges and mechanics could just include labour in the cost of parts!

COme into Ozzy Tyres and we will look after you.

Why should you expect them to serve you for free

why, ulysses? becuase it is their job and they get awage to do so. do you tip every shop assistant , every service station counter operator?

now, tipping for service above and beyond expectations is justified. paying a ‘service charge’ is a rort.

skaboy… where is this magical place you talk about?

Duke said :

Nobody really deserves a tip for doing their job well, but if i’ve had a pleasant evening, and the success of the dinner is due in part to a competent waiter/ess, then i’m happy to throw in a couple of extra bucks knowing they so easily could have ruined the night by being rude etc.

It’s also a matter of greasing the wheel, tori. Staff are less likely to spit in my food
or knock a Merlot into my lap if they know their tip is dependent on their efforts.

But I bet you wouldn’t tip my staff for putting wheels and tyres on your car, or doing a service on it.

Even though we go one step further than other tyre places by checking your brake pads, cleaning your wheels and putting an airfreshener in your car, egardless of what you get done, you would never even think to tip the boys out the back covered in grease. I reckon they get na fair bit dirtier and do worse jobs than waitstaff.

mouthface, the 50c bag fee at borders is to discourage people from getting a bag when they probably don’t need one ie save the environment. nothing to do with paying the person behind the counter to just do their job as they are already being paid to do.

Hey there Tyler!
Thanks for clarifying that – I guess that’s what happens in Australia?

Cause from what I was reading the US waiters have a lower wage and supplement it from the tips – didn’t see anything about chef’s etc – would they be on supplemented wages too?

Mouthface I thought you were going away to earn some bread!!!!

Actually Ozhair, I was charged (I think it was 50c) to get a bag for my book at Borders

Every other service industry on the face of the Earth (okay I may be exagerating a wee bit) manages to build the cost of their product being served to you into the costs of said product.

Except for tradesmen. They charge the cost of a 30 minute taxi trip just to visit you.

Okay, corkage and cakeage I can see the point of, no real problems there.

But this Service Fee thing? WTF? Every other service industry on the face of the Earth (okay I may be exagerating a wee bit) manages to build the cost of their product being served to you into the costs of said product. Why is the restaurant industry different? Why the need to seperate out the service fee?

As others have said, I have no problem with tipping if the service is exceptional, but being charged extra simply for standard service? Where else do you do that? Do I get charged a service fee at Dymocks because the guy behind the counter puts the book in a bag for me?

Hi Madman – just to clarify, in most if not all establishments, the kitchen get the same, if not more share of the tips received from the waiters.

For the record, I’m always happy to pay good money, and occasionally tip if the food and experience was outstanding. I just don’t like encouraging a US style tipping culture when you’re expected to pay for everything (good service or not) including twisitng a lid off the top of a beer bottle in a bar!

tylersmayhem said :

Also, people need to keep in mind that another reason that corkage is charged is because establishments need to cough up a huge amount of money to be allowed to alcoholic beverages to be server on their property. In some cases, the corkage would only just cover this licensing over a 12 month period.

I also have no real problem with cakeage, as long as the cost is reasonable.

I suppose this is to pay for the cake serving license?
I toatally agree that if you bring your own grog in you should supplement the license they need for it.

Thumper – I totally agree with you like always…

Plus why should you tip the waiter for the really good meal? Surely it was the chef’s doing and the waiter only took your order and moved your plates. Geez – monkeys can do that…

Two regular customers at a well known Canberra restaurant are Mr. Tight and Mr. Generous. Mr Tight always brings a BYO wine, never orders dessert or any extras, and never tips. He usually enquires about every detail on the bill and, whilst paying for the corkage, makes it known that he doesn’t agree with the charge. Mr Generous, on the other hand, will order a pre dinner drink, make a selection (or two) from the wine list, order three courses, coffee and a dessert wine and always leave a twenty dollar tip.

Scenario 1: It’s 9.58pm and the kitchen closes at 10pm. It’s been a long day and staff and owner are keen to wind things down, clean up and get out of there, grab a couple of cold ones at the local pub and head home. Mr Tight and company walk into the restaurant and ask for a table. The waiter politely informs them that the kitchen will be closing any minute and unfortunately they are not taking any more tables. Mr Tight and company head off to Chicken Gourmet to get some chips with gravy.

Scenario 2: It’s 9.58pm and the kitchen closes at 10pm. It’s been a long day and staff and owner are keen to wind things down, clean up and get out of there, grab a couple of cold ones at the local pub and head home. Mr Generous and company walk into the restaurant and ask for a table. The waiter politely informs them that the kitchen will be closing any minute, but in his case, they will keep the kitchen open a little longer, and promptly seats him and his company at his favourite table. Mr Generous and company have a great dinner, and owner and staff are happy to go the extra mile because it’s worth it for them.

The next day, Mr Tight, being a religious man, breaks down during his prayer session and and cries out in exasperation “Oh God, why have you foresaken me? Have I not been a good and decent man? Did I not donate to charity and save lives in the course of my employment? Why can’t you make it so I win Powerball?”

Suddenly a thunderous voice is heard to say ” Sheesh, Mr Tight…. enough already, meet me halfway…. buy a ticket!”

Fair call smeeagain, it would be particularly irritating if you also had to pay “goatage”

You already pay arseage and lightage in France. Want to sit outside instead of inside? Arseage. Want candlight? Lightage.

What I object to is when everyone on the the table is charged corkage. I don’t drink wine, so I am paying top dollar for their spirits or beer, then being charged corkage on top of that. Gets on my goat.

Some restaurants are flexible I took a bottle of grange to a non BYO restaurant once after phoning them first. They said yes as long as I paid the $20 per person corkage which i didn’t mind as I wanted to have the 86 grange there with some nice wagyu they had. Mind you I tried that at the charcoal grill once with a 71 grange and they wouldn’t do no matter how much the corkage was.

Next it’ll be –

Arseage – fee charged for using a seat while sitting at the table.

Lightage – charged for any lighting required over your table while you dine.

I agree totally Clown Killer. It is so easy and yet so many restaurants cock it up – the point I was trying to make (but didn’t do well) was that wine selections should be much better but they often aren’t…

…it is very, very easy to maintain a decent wine selection…

If that was truly the case, then you’d imagine more establishments would do so.

A BYO licence only allows the consumption of alcohol that has been brought in by customers to be consumed on the premises. It does not govern how patrons are then charged for the privilege. A fully licenced restaruant pays more and goes through more hassle with the ACT government to have the ability to sell alcohol – why would they then allow someone to bring in booze?

And it is very, very easy to maintain a decent wine selection – ALM (Australian Liquor Merchants) is an Australia wide alcohol wholesaler that sells to just about every hospitality business in Oz. Their selection may not be amazingly interesting or unique but it is broad enough to allow any old cafe to stock a good selection of Australian wines (and beers, ciders, port, spirits, tobacco, potato chips, tally ho papers etc just about anything to stock a bar/restaurant).

With the majority of Australian wines consumed within 24 hrs of purchase there is no need to have a “cellar” per se. Your $15 bottle Oyster Bay sauvignon blancs or $40 tassie pinot noirs are easily purchased weekly/daily/whatever from ALM. How many people out there actually take a bottle of something to a joe-average restaurant that they didn’t buy moments before at the local IGA because it was cheaper?

I grant you that it would be difficult to maintain an exceptional cellar (like The Ginger Room at OPH) but how many restaurants need this sort of cellar?

I’ve got no detailed specific experience of the ACT licensing arrangements, but in Victoria BYO is an actual form of liquor license – it entitles the licensee to allow the service and consumption of alcohol that has been purchased elsewhere. “Fully Licensed” used to mean that the establishment could sell a complete range of wines, beers and spirits as well as allow the service and consumption of alcohol that has been purchased elsewhere – although in practice most licensees discouraged BYO. Our federal system of government probably means that the laws are completely different here in Canberra.

The reality is that many good restaurants simply don’t have the resources or ability to establish and maintain a decent cellar and as a result the number and range of wines they can offer suffers. It just makes good business sense to allow customers who wish to do so, to bring their own wine and charge them for the privilege.

If a miser is a person who donates $100 every year to the Cancer Council and this year just happened to be handed an Entertainment Book then maybe I am one.

Better that than a miserable twit.

If you accept that Corkage is a reasonable fee then I can’t see how you can argue that Cakeage is not acceptable. In both instances the venue would be making money by selling you the bottle or cake and by bringing them into the restaurant you are depriving them of that revenue.

To counter any argument like this I would recommend all venues that have cake and wine to say in either instance “Nope, we don’t allow any BYO of anything” – just like they do in virtually every other restaurant around the world – Aust is a bit weird with their BYO tradition.

The thing that gets me is “15% Sunday and Public Holiday Surcharge”.

I once went into one of my favourite coffee-driven restaurants (on London Circuit in Bailey’s Corner) on a public holiday and was charged an extra %15 for my meal and when I asked one of the staff if they got higher pay rates for public holidays and they said no. So what am I paying the extra 15% for? The staff don’t get extra, the food isn’t any more expensive, and last time I checked my ACTEW bill utilities didn’t go up on Canberra Day – so how is being open on a public holiday any more expensive to them than a normal day?

VG i am really quite bored, and need to earn some money… so on a final note, I just read your earlier comment and really felt threatened that you would want to do that thing with the card and my cakehole. I apologise for calling you a scrooge. What I meant was miser!

Mouthface you are an ass

Also, people need to keep in mind that another reason that corkage is charged is because establishments need to cough up a huge amount of money to be allowed to alcoholic beverages to be server on their property. In some cases, the corkage would only just cover this licensing over a 12 month period.

I also have no real problem with cakeage, as long as the cost is reasonable. I understand why some people bring their own cakes. Sometimes the only cakes available in restaurants are the usual cheesecake, chocolate mud cake and one or two others. If your Auntie Betty makes a wicked traditional Tirimisu or Hungarian Dobos torte for your birthday, then sure, bring it along for your birthday dinner/lunch. But be prepared to rightly pay a reasonable amount for the service, plates, washing etc for the privilege.

It seems we have some people who don’t want to pay for services that they get in restaurants, such as the staff looking after them regarding serving their BYO drinks and cakes

I have no problem with paying an acceptable corkage charge when appropriate glassware is provided, the wine is decanted when requested, an ice bucket is provided for white or sparking wines and where more than one wine is consumed, fresh appropriate glassware is offered. Anything less is simply charging for nothing and I object to that.

I had no idea that people brought cakes to restaurants before this thread. I’d view ‘cakeage’ in the same light as corkage, although I view the idea of taking your own cake to a restaurant as a bit sus.

As far as tipping simply because someone can do their job competently – that’s just bollocks. There seems to be theme developing here that the price you pay for the meal somehow needs to be augmented because you don’t have to walk into the kitchen and get the plate yourself when the chef rings the bell.

@Special G.

I don’t know about Ulysses but I don’t work in the hospitality industry. I did once about ten years ago and always enjoyed it. Even dealing with the odd ‘difficult customer’ did not matter. I deal with just as many ‘difficult customers’ in my current career and that is not what this is about.

I am going in to bat for restaurants because I am self employed and understand that nothing is free. Somebody has to pay. That’s the way it is. I don’t know what you do for a living, but you should understand that restaurants, like all small businesses, do not simply appear as a public service for your convenience. They are there to make their owners a living. If the owner can’t make a living, no more restaurant. Then you can spend your evening at the leagues club or the fast food chain. And the point I made about ‘half-arsed food critics doing write ups’ earlier was about someone’s business being labeled a rip off because they had the ‘audacity’ to charge legitimately for a service.

I am yet to see where anyone has remotely hinted that you should tip for bad service in this thread. And, yes, You are a scrooge.

It seems we have some people who don’t want to pay for services that they get in restaurants, such as the staff looking after them regarding serving their BYO drinks and cakes, yet complaining that the owners of the establishments should pay their staff more so that, heaven forbid, they don’t have to tip. Isn’t it a bit hypocritical for people to demand all sorts or freebies from a business because ‘they are doing it a favour’ just by being there, even if they don’t actually want to buy that business’s products.

Thumper, tipping had already started and has always existed in Australian restaurants, and ONCE AGIN you don’t have to if you don’t want. If you feel so strongly about employers paying their staff more, I agree with you that hospitality staff are not highly paid and do supplement their income with their tips, but who do you think will pay for higher wages? The customers, brainiac. You seem to think that what you pay for in your local eatery is not related to what the staff are paid at that eatery.

It’s typical of some people in this forum to assume that Ulysses or I are in the hospitality industry simply because we made some points supporting restaurant charges. You obviously can’t see past your own noses.

I agree with Thumper. It maddens me how in the US they underpay their staff, and the customers have to foot the added cost to pay the staff a reasonable rate. To me, we already see a method of this in Australia where a 10-20% surcharge is added on Sunday’s. The staff deservedly get paid a hight rate by law, but the customers have to take that added cost on the chin. I think it’s pretty bad.

After living in London for several years recently, the method of automatically adding 10-15% on to the bill before settling was rife. Added to this, the service was rarely particularly good, and the extra money seemed a right of passage to the businesses. You can of course refuse to pay it, but at the cost of feeling quite obliged to pay it. If this starts happening in Australia, I urge everyone to knock it on the head before it goes mainstream.

Exactly, they don’t do write ups. They don’t get to publish uninformed comment, which is what canberracafe.com was suggesting. S/he has no idea about restaurants judging by what s/he has written, yet feels justified in calling an establishment a rip off because they charge corkage. Pull your head in!

Uninformed people do write ups. I did the other week. I don’t have to have an impecable palate to know a lamb cutlet is overcooked. The beauty of sites like CAnberracafe and RiotAct is anyone can submit their restaurant reviews. Critics get perfect service and the chef puts some effort into their meal as a good write up is ‘a pretty good tip’. If the staff treat the average punter like crap the they get the word of mouth treatment. If you have been in Canberra for any time then word of mouth is far better than any other method of advertising.

@ Ulysses – you can’t read to well champ – go back to school. I said Cakeage and Corkage were acceptable charges for bringing your own food to a restaurant. Service charge is what you pay for the food and drinks, etc when you go into the restaurant and should be reflected in the price of the food, an add on service charge is crap. THAT IS CALLED PAYING FOR YOUR MEAL. As for a cancellation charge I would tell them to bill the guy who cancelled.

As for the Entertainment book it is obvious how people in the industry view people who use it. If you don’t like it don’t advertise in it. I have had one for the past several years and use it all the time. Because of the offers and menu samples in it we have gone and tried many resaurants we otherwise wouldn’t have known about, and then gone back the next year. If not tipping for crap service and getting a discount offered by the establishment are being a scrooge then label me as such.

@ Mouthface and Ulysses – if the customers are getting in the way of you enjoying your work change careers.

I view tipping in Australia as a completely personal decision. It should not be considered rude if it is withheld and it should not be expected. I tend to agree with vg. If the service is excellent then the staff have carried out their role properly – in my book, a tip is earned when the service exceeds this – when some connection is made that elevates the dining experience above simply a great meal.

I view comparisons with the US as spurious as there, a gratuity is an established component of the waiters/waitresses income stream and their base wages reflect that. That is not the case in Australia where the wages paid reflect the level of skills required to do the job.

What I therefore object to is the arbitrary inclusion of a ‘service charge’ on the bill which removes the discretion of the customer. If such a charge was included on my bill I would simply refuse to pay it.

And mouthface, I’m interested on your views regarding entertainment and privileges cards. Why would a customer bearing one of these be the worst type of customer any restaurant would want to see on a busy night? Didn’t the establishment where that card is accepted voluntarily enter into an arrangement with the card providers?

What are we… American’s….

I never give a tip, and I think of it as rude as the establishment wanting one.
They provide a service, I use the service – they charge accordingly for the service – we’re all done here!

Who tips ACTEWAGL for the exceptional service they provided in the last quarter? They provided a service that you used.

Do you tip the bus driver after getting you to work safely?

What about when you get your friday takeaway – do you tip McDonalds? They have some pretty fast service there – you’d be tipping a pocket full.

Why should it be an industry specific – I think get rid of tipping and don’t pay it at all – and certainly it should not be included and pre-calculated on the bill.

Deadmandrinking said :

Dammit.

It’s good vietnamese though. The owner’s a nice bloke too.

He is

“The next time he came we made sure he was very well looked after, but he never tipped that much again. We never forgot that generosity though and always went out of our way to make sure he had a good night.”

If you were professional and good at your job you should be doing that to every customer, regardless of how much equal to or above the bill they pay. No customers, no job for you, but its hard to see the forest for the trees isn’t it.

I have saved people’s lives in my worklife. All I got for it was my fortnightly wage. Get a bit of fcuking perspective

Dammit.

It’s good vietnamese though. The owner’s a nice bloke too.

Ass Monkey

I’ll clarify something for you. I was given my Privileges card by ACTEWAGL. Didn’t ask for it, got sent it after I dared support a local business venture as opposed to taking my business elsewhere.
.
My Entertainment book I was given by the ACT Cancer Council after donating $100 to them. You can buy your books from them for $50. I give that much to the Cancer Council every year because I have lost family members to cancer. God forbid I should dare to use something that I have been given. The restaurants offer the discounts. No one forces them to. I could decline to come out at all and have the restaurant share in no part of my income. But people who tip in the hope of receiving discounts, favours and the like are so very different and on a higher ground morally are they? When you grow up one day you may (heaven forbid) procreate and find out that not everyone can afford to eat out every single week but when they do, according to you, they are somewhat lower than average because they dare to partake in an offer extended by the very establishment in which they eat?

You seem like so many of the hospitality industry to have a holier than though attitude towards your ‘craft’ and the patrons that dare to trouble you in your employ. What I would suggest is that if you feel so strongly about it, next time you see someone have the temerity to use Privileges or the Entertainment book that you approach them and reflect the above to them. With any luck it will be me. Hopefully your medical benefits will recover the cost of having my card removed from your cake hole.

Better to be thought of as a scrooge here than to open one’s mouth with comments such as you have and categorically prove you’re a fcukwit

vg,

just noticed your earlier post. An entertainment card and a privileges card? You are the worst type of customer any restaurant would want to see on a busy night. Of course you won’t tip, you just forked out all that money so that you can get a discount. Good for you, scrooge.

vg,
tipping may be a wank to most people and that’s fine. Once again, I am saying that nobody should have to tip, and certainly not to secure competent service. Sometimes however, it can work to get a few extra privileges, or to show ones gratitude if the service has been extra special, that’s all. If you don’t want to do it, don’t. Nobody should hold it against you and I’m sure they rarely do. I know I certainly don’t do it all the time, but sometimes I feel it’s deserved.

Some years ago, I used to work in a restaurant and a well known affluent Canberra gentleman came to dinner with some friends. A couple of them were a little pissed when they got there and carried on like pork chops for most of the night. The staff put on a brave face and looked after the table regardless, never got upset at the drunk patrons who gave us a bit of a tough time and generally ensured that they were very well looked after. The guy tipped us $100! Obviously this was a form of thanks and an apology for his boofhead mates. Surely there is nothing ‘wanky’ about that.

The next time he came we made sure he was very well looked after, but he never tipped that much again. We never forgot that generosity though and always went out of our way to make sure he had a good night.

BTW, the ebay item usually does not have a listed price. He who makes the highest bid wins the day.

Thats twice, you like the same Vietnamese as me

I only tip (mostly to taxi-drivers, actually, when I’m under the influence) if I feel the service is deserving. I do not feel obliged to do so and I certainly don’t feel the need to ‘bribe’ anyone. If a restaurant provides me sh*t service because I don’t tip, I never go there again.

Crap, I kind of agree with VG.

mouthface said :

It’s also a matter of greasing the wheel, tori. Staff are less likely to spit in my food or knock a Merlot into my lap if they know their tip is dependent on their efforts.

So tipping is blackmail?

Actually, tipping is bribery. And that is exactly what it is supposed to be. Most people may not understand the nature of tipping and therefore choose to be critical of it as a practice. Certainly nobody is obliged to tip and should never be made to feel that they have to. In the American system, it actually is a service charge rather than a true tip, because the way hospitality staff get paid works a little differently.

The beauty of the tip, when done properly, is that it is a bribe to extract extra service from the waiting staff and have a perfect night out. For example, if you want the best table in the house, and slip the waiter a tip before the service, then by rights, you should be able to have it. The tip is proclaiming “I am a big tipper, and if you give me extra special service, you will be rewarded”. If you are a regular, and known for being generous, then staff will probably go out of their way to make sure everything goes smoothly for you. That shouldn’t mean that if you don’t tip you should receive shit service, but well known big tippers will get the extra attention. Kind of like the highest bidder on ebay wins the item.

No its not. Does the eBay bidder have to pay extra on top of the listed price to secure their item? They pay the displayed price and postage. No more, no less.

Tipping is a wank

Duke said :

tori – I should also add that tipping at a restaurant you frequent has many benefits. The staff get to know you and know your name (which always impresses clients, girlfriends, family) and can lead to better table placement, discounts, priority bookings and freebies. I’m the guy at the quiet table in the corner, vg and other misers sit at the wobbly table next to the mens loos!

Won’t be me. If I had a table like that I’d politely ask if it was possible to be moved. If that was not possible I would thank them for their time and move quietly on. I’d hardly call that miserly. I’ve done harder, more dangerous and far more difficult work than any waiter/waitress. My reward was my pay.

I have an Entertainment Book and Privileges Card that get me discounts better than any bull shit tipping. Its funny that when people decline to hand over something they are not obliged to they are miserly. I would just call that Australian

Felix,

Most club bistros are contracted and only make their money from the sale of food, but in most cases they have a contract which includes greatly subsidised rent on the club floor and a complete fitout that they did not have to invest in. Their investment did not include a purchase price or a fit out cost. The club also has an arrangement with them to cap prices and they work on massive volumes. To give you an idea, a bistro like the one at Southern Cross club or Hellenic club will do more people in one day than most restaurants will do in a week. The inly motivation the clubs have is to get as many people through the door so that some of their money ends up in the pokies.

I don’t really agree with tipping (in Aust) or “service fee”. Aren’t the actual waiting staff supposed to get this money – they provided the good service? So how does it work if you pay the bill with the “service charge” by credit card? The restaurant gets it all I would think.

Corkage and cakeage (never heard of the latter until today but I guess it’s fair enough if they charge corkage) – shouldn’t the cost of the meal/wine cover this without it being an extra charge? I can see the purpose in it, just reckon it’s a bit of a rort on top of the overpriced meal you’ve already paid for.

Other cheaper eating establishments (such as clubs) don’t charge corkage or cakeage (or service or cancellation fees…) so why do restaurants that charge a lot more for their meals feel the need to? Yes, I know clubs have polkies and membership fees but I’m sure their bistros don’t run at a loss (a lot of them are outsourced anyway). I’m guessing that the local club pays their chefs and waiters pretty much the same as the fancy restaurants do. An award wage is an award wage, they aren’t going to pay more if they don’t have to.

Special G said :

Mouthface is all out on this one. If restaurants want to throw in a service charge they should up the prices of their meals. Then see if people will go there based on the food cost and quality. Put the costs up front.

As for the comment about regular customers being critics. Damn right they are. They don’t do write ups in magazines although treat your customers like shit , especially somewhere small like Canberra, and watch your cash flow go out the window. Regular punters are keeping your business running they should be treated exactly the same as any food critic.

Exactly, they don’t do write ups. They don’t get to publish uninformed comment, which is what canberracafe.com was suggesting. S/he has no idea about restaurants judging by what s/he has written, yet feels justified in calling an establishment a rip off because they charge corkage. Pull your head in!

It’s also a matter of greasing the wheel, tori. Staff are less likely to spit in my food or knock a Merlot into my lap if they know their tip is dependent on their efforts.

So tipping is blackmail?

Actually, tipping is bribery. And that is exactly what it is supposed to be. Most people may not understand the nature of tipping and therefore choose to be critical of it as a practice. Certainly nobody is obliged to tip and should never be made to feel that they have to. In the American system, it actually is a service charge rather than a true tip, because the way hospitality staff get paid works a little differently.

The beauty of the tip, when done properly, is that it is a bribe to extract extra service from the waiting staff and have a perfect night out. For example, if you want the best table in the house, and slip the waiter a tip before the service, then by rights, you should be able to have it. The tip is proclaiming “I am a big tipper, and if you give me extra special service, you will be rewarded”. If you are a regular, and known for being generous, then staff will probably go out of their way to make sure everything goes smoothly for you. That shouldn’t mean that if you don’t tip you should receive shit service, but well known big tippers will get the extra attention. Kind of like the highest bidder on ebay wins the item.

@vg – I’m not against tipping those people. We should start a movement! Next Thursday you can tip your Centerlink officer and i’ll throw some coins at the first stop-n-go guy I see leaning on his shovel. When I worked as a cleaner I didn’t get tips, but I did get small gifts from people whose offices and toilets I cleaned. A token gesture goes a long way.

@Thumper – ‘blackmail’ is an ugly word. Replace it with ‘incentive’

tori – I should also add that tipping at a restaurant you frequent has many benefits. The staff get to know you and know your name (which always impresses clients, girlfriends, family) and can lead to better table placement, discounts, priority bookings and freebies. I’m the guy at the quiet table in the corner, vg and other misers sit at the wobbly table next to the mens loos!

“Tradition, not americanisation leads me to tip and because I worked in kitchens for many years so I know the restaurant game is a tough gig.”

So is cleaning toilets, working the front counter in Centrelink, being a nurse in a casualty ward in a major hospital and working on a road gang. No tips there.

‘Tipping’ is another habit imported from the USA. If the service I receive is exemplary then the staff are doing their job. Its nothing extreme, it just called professionalism. The only reward they need receive, like myself, is my fortnightly pay packet.

If the pay that hospitality staff received is below par that isn’t my problem. It might be unfair etc etc but that’s the staff’s battle to fight. Having said that, when I am in a group and we all throw in equal amounts to cover the total meal I am happy to leave the excess when the service is of a high standard. When it is just me paying with a credit card I never leave a tip.

Tipping is bullshit. The only onus on any ‘self-respecting diner’ has is to pay the bill. That’s it. No obligation legal, moral or otherwise to go past that point. If hospitality staff think gratuities are some sort of right as opposed to a privilege the chip will get knocked off their shoulders when they move outside the comfort of their service job.

tori – it’s a tough one, deciding if or how much one should tip, but I must have good taste/luck with restaurants because rarely do I encounter bad service – except on my last trip to Woodstock (my distain illustrated by a 20 cent tip).

Tradition, not americanisation leads me to tip and because I worked in kitchens for many years so I know the restaurant game is a tough gig.

You will be pleased to know i haven’t gone down the path of tipping my hairdresser!

Nobody really deserves a tip for doing their job well, but if i’ve had a pleasant evening, and the success of the dinner is due in part to a competent waiter/ess, then i’m happy to throw in a couple of extra bucks knowing they so easily could have ruined the night by being rude etc.

It’s also a matter of greasing the wheel, tori. Staff are less likely to spit in my food
or knock a Merlot into my lap if they know their tip is dependent on their efforts.

duke – interested to know why you think ‘any self-respecting diner will/should tip anyway’? do you mean regardless of quality of food or service i should still leave a tip? if the food and service is below standard, do i have the right to deduct money from my bill? and i am wondering why it is tha if i do an excellent job in my current job, or have done in the past in my previous jobs, i have never received a tip. even though there is absolutely a service element to my job – indeed isn’t there a service element to nearly all jobs? why is it that hospitality people ‘deserve’ tips for good work but nobody else? my commentary is not a personal attack against you at all, duke, i am just of the opinion that tipping is americanised bullshit.

Duke said :

Alotta tightarses on this thread. Going to a restaurant is an occasion, an experience. If all you want is a ‘feed’ pissoff back to the Leagues club.

@ Special G – Canberra has excellent restaurants in part because it is a small town. Bad restaurants quickly get a bad rep and don’t last long. I don’t mind paying a bit more to support a restaurant producing good food.

If critics of extra charges had their way the only restaurants left in town would be McDonalds – which is the type of dining experience these critics should stick to!

This is the truth.

Corkage – acceptable – (the miscreant in me longs to take some cask wine to a fancy restaurant and have the wait staff tap it for me 😉

Cakeage – acceptable – you’re using restaurant plates, cuttlery, spilling crumbs on the floor.

Service fee – rubbish. Any self-respecting diner will/should tip anyway

Cancellation fee – acceptable. $29 for one cancellation is a bit rich, but when whole tables cancel everybody loses, including the group who couldn’t dine because the restaurant was ‘fully booked.’

Alotta tightarses on this thread. Going to a restaurant is an occasion, an experience. If all you want is a ‘feed’ pissoff back to the Leagues club.

@ Special G – Canberra has excellent restaurants in part because it is a small town. Bad restaurants quickly get a bad rep and don’t last long. I don’t mind paying a bit more to support a restaurant producing good food.

If critics of extra charges had their way the only restaurants left in town would be McDonalds – which is the type of dining experience these critics should stick to!

Special G said :

Mouthface is all out on this one. If restaurants want to throw in a service charge they should up the prices of their meals. Then see if people will go there based on the food cost and quality. Put the costs up front.

As for the comment about regular customers being critics. Damn right they are. They don’t do write ups in magazines although treat your customers like shit , especially somewhere small like Canberra, and watch your cash flow go out the window. Regular punters are keeping your business running they should be treated exactly the same as any food critic.

Service charge/corkage/cakeage = shit treatment? Once again it is called PAYING FOR A SERVICE! What is there not to get. How is it sooo hard to understand that when in a dining establishment, YOU MUST PAY FOR THEIR SERVICE? They aren’t a charity, they are a business. Why should you expect them to serve you for free. This is essentially what it boils down to.

enrique said :

Not really, birthday/special occasion cakes are a traditional part of Australian society/culture that only come out on the odd occasion.

As a rule, who is going to even think about ordering dessert when there’s free cake around? The restaurant allows you to BYO your own food (doing themselves out of potential income in the process) and charges a small fee for the cutlery, plates and possibly even serving of said food. Nothing wrong with that in my book.

Not really, birthday/special occasion cakes are a traditional part of Australian society/culture that only come out on the odd occasion.

you really have no capacity for seeing things from anyone else’s perspective, do you enrique? ‘odd occasion’ for you, mebbe, but a restaurant potentially deals with oddballs like you every sitting. are you seriously trying to make a case that ‘cakeage’ (apart from the appalling name) is somehow ‘unaustralian’? get a life, f’fark’s sake…

that aside, the cancellation fee seems a bit on the nose, as does the service charge – service is provided by staff who are paid a minimum wage about which a customer would be aware, unlike the states where the minimum wage is so paltry that a tip – service charge – is expected. we are not america. i’d have told them to shove it up their jumper, unless it was a public holiday and this was information available before the sitting commenced.

Mouthface is all out on this one. If restaurants want to throw in a service charge they should up the prices of their meals. Then see if people will go there based on the food cost and quality. Put the costs up front.

As for the comment about regular customers being critics. Damn right they are. They don’t do write ups in magazines although treat your customers like shit , especially somewhere small like Canberra, and watch your cash flow go out the window. Regular punters are keeping your business running they should be treated exactly the same as any food critic.

Hey enrique,
I am not interested in debating, I just want to hurt your feelings… duh!

Also, If the nice person has gone to the trouble of making a cake, the other lazy sods should have the decency to put in for cakeage. What are we talking about here? Two dollars each… come on get serious.

I’ve worked at a lot of restaurants and encountered a lot of bogans who didn’t like paying corkage, cakeage and the like… I’ve had people claim that because they brought a screw-top wine bottle, they shouldn’t have to pay corkage as there’s no cork. Bah! All in all, the tables that bitched and moaned about the extra charge were generally the same ones that needed items on the menu explained to them, the same ones that asked for chips and gravy (in a five-star, fine dining restaurant), the same ones that counted out coins to pay the bill.

As a side note, i worked a very reputable restaurant in Canberra a few years back, and they charged cakeage and corkage by the bottle or cake, rather than by the person. So they’re obviously not the “money grubbing” type of proprietors referred to by some in this discussion, as the fee they charge is flat, they don’t squeeze more out of you depending on the size of your party.

All for cakeage (if they bring plates, cutlery and napkins and light the candles). All for reasonable corkage. And I’d tip in an instant if I started getting the same level of service I get in the US, where nothing is ever too hard.

Were they out on the public holiday? Some places charge a flat rate ‘service charge’ on public holidays.

In response to the personal attacks directed at me by mouthface and ulyssesSB – it’s just a conversation, I’m not having a go at either of you – don’t take it to heart…

Perhaps this may help…

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=how+to+debate&btnG=Search&meta=

Its a pretty simple arrangement in Singapore the service charges are included in the bill. A lot of the time if you try and give them a tip they will just give the money back to you.

mouthface said :

Just to turn that argument on its head… the reason diners take their own cake is their scabbiness. Why don’t they get the restaurant to organise a cake for them? Because they are cheapskates, that’s why! They would rather find some cheap cake somewhere, burden themselves with the hassle of bringing it along to the restaurant, and then they let the cakeage charge ruin their night because they are too tight to pay the extra couple of bucks each to cover it. What a mean bunch of scabby buggers they must be. I for one would never take a store bought cake along to a restaurant, and then carry on like a goose for a couple of bucks, I would be too embarrassed. And if I was on a budget, I would do something at home.

And what would you do if you were the nice type of person that wanted to put in a big effort for someone and make a cake for them that was their favourite?

This guy must be the type that argues over sixty cents with his friends because he only had one piece of garlic bread…

enrique said :

Mate, the reason is perfectly clear – it’s an opportunity for a greedy operater to make a few more bucks. I’ve worked in restaurants and from all accounts happy customers, repeat business, and good reviews (including on the-riotact) are worth much much more then the few measly dollars you get from fri$%in cakeage! It’s pure economics and customer relations man.

If it’s a few measly dollars to you then get the hell over it. Last time I checked, economics did not take into account customers appreciation for a free service – That’s called a favour.

enrique said :

mouthface said :

@enrique

By that rationale, maybe you should be able to get a free gift from the jewellery store because your birthday is a special occasion…. what is it with these people?

Yep, that’s it. Spin a logical arguement into some fanciful story to further your cause… be my guest.

I have no cause you boofhead! YOu are just a scab.

Reminds me of a famous quote from a certain movie:

Mr. Pink: I don’t tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I’ll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it’s for the birds. As far as I’m concerned, they’re just doing their job.
Mr. Blue: Hey, our girl was nice.
Mr. Pink: She was okay. She wasn’t anything special.

Just to turn that argument on its head… the reason diners take their own cake is their scabbiness. Why don’t they get the restaurant to organise a cake for them? Because they are cheapskates, that’s why! They would rather find some cheap cake somewhere, burden themselves with the hassle of bringing it along to the restaurant, and then they let the cakeage charge ruin their night because they are too tight to pay the extra couple of bucks each to cover it. What a mean bunch of scabby buggers they must be. I for one would never take a store bought cake along to a restaurant, and then carry on like a goose for a couple of bucks, I would be too embarrassed. And if I was on a budget, I would do something at home.

Corkage/Cakeage is a legitimate charge for bringing wine/cake into a resteraunt. Mind you it should be reasonable – small cake just for birthday person – charged for those who eat it and probably get the deserts ordered by everyone else.

Service charge – load of crap – tips are paid to good service.
Cancellation charge – load of crap.

mouthface said :

@enrique

By that rationale, maybe you should be able to get a free gift from the jewellery store because your birthday is a special occasion…. what is it with these people?

Yep, that’s it. Spin a logical arguement into some fanciful story to further your cause… be my guest.

@enrique again

I wonder what you do for a living? Please let me know so that I can hire you to do something for me and then not pay you (you won’t mind will you? Put it down to a PR exercise)

ulyssesSB said :

If you cannot understand the reason for such charges, you never will. Eat in, then you can complain about something other than service charges… golly!

Mate, the reason is perfectly clear – it’s an opportunity for a greedy operater to make a few more bucks. I’ve worked in restaurants and from all accounts happy customers, repeat business, and good reviews (including on the-riotact) are worth much much more then the few measly dollars you get from fri$%in cakeage! It’s pure economics and customer relations man.

@enrique

By that rationale, maybe you should be able to get a free gift from the jewellery store because your birthday is a special occasion…. what is it with these people?

Also, you’d think a restaurant should be happy that this larger then usual group (income source) has chosen it as the location for the celebration. Not only is it a good money spinner, it is a great P.R./marketing opportunity for the restaurant in terms of the group guests that may never have been/though of going there before.

If you cannot understand the reason for such charges, you never will. Eat in, then you can complain about something other than service charges… golly!

Primal – Bringing a cake is basically bringing your own dessert into the restaurant

Not really, birthday/special occasion cakes are a traditional part of Australian society/culture that only come out on the odd occasion.

If the reason you were bringing a cake was not related to a special occasion then I think it would be a dessert replacement – but stiffing someone just to let them use your restaurant’s knife and a few napkins is a bit rough.

As a restaurant operator, of course you deserve to be paid for things like cakaeage! It works on the exact same principles of corkage… If you don’t want to pay for these things, you cannot expect them to be done – simple isn’t it?

@mickymouse
What I would want as a restaurant owner is to be paid for my service! Why should a restaurant owner have to accept that they should firstly fill their restaurant up with a large booking, then have everyone in that booking get a free ride when it comes to dessert? It probably would be better for them to have their restaurant half full but that everyone pays top dollar. A very successful ‘fine dining’ operator once told me that what they love about fine dining is that they can make a much better profit from a few well paying customers rather than with a packed house of cheapskates. They can have less, and better, staff in the kitchen and on the floor and get a far higher per head return on their better paying diners. Tell me what would you prefer if you had a restaurant: 100 diners at $100 a head or 200 diners at $25 a head?

I think you’ve accurately summed up the economics of the ‘cakeage’ thing mickeymouse. I guess some will absorb those costs and some will seek to pass them on to the customer.

Corkage is a legitimate charge and will be levied by both BYO and fully licensed establishments.

More worrying is the arbitrary inclusion of a ‘service charge’ on the bill.

mouthface said :

Cakeage is a legitimate charge as is corkage, and anyone who refuses to pay it is a bit of a scab.
Why do people think they can walk into an establishment that already sells food (including dessert) and wine, bring their own and get served for free?

Could you imagine going to a tyre fitting place for example, bringing your own tyres and getting them fitted onto your car at no cost? I doubt it. Or maybe hiring an ironing lady and then not paying her because you own the clothes!

Remember this, the cake is stored for you while you have your dinner, it is usually brought out to you by smiling staff who even sing ‘Happy birthday’ without a hint of embarrassment, the cake is cut and served on their plates, with their cutlery and then the whole thing is taken away, the leftovers repacked, and plates and cutlery washed. Who does all this? Certainly not you!
If you don’t want to pay for this type of service, then just have your dinner party at home, otherwise pay up and shut up.

Nobody is disputing that there are costs involved in serving the BYO cake (including the potential loss of revenue), but most people expect the restaurant to absorb these costs for a large booking (such as a birthday dinner), especially since they are presumably making money from the starters, mains and drinks. Most restaurant owners accept that some customers are simply more costly to service than others. What would you want as a restaurant owner – a restaurant full of paying customers or a restaurant with a few tables of couples?

For anyone setting up a food website, or claiming food critic status:
Beware the Blowback

The Grazing Incident (scroll down, they respond)

I am happy to tip when the service justifies it, but it’s been a very long time since I’ve received service in Canberra that I would tip for. Going to the US opened my eyes on this – the quality of service and friendliness justifed a few bucks almost every time I was served. In Canberra, the wait staff are usually (no, not occasionally) slow and not particularly smart, or friendly and smiley. Just yesterday I had lunch in an upmarket Manuka resturant where I ordered a small salad (22 bucks!), which took half an hour to arrive, and they forgot the drink. Not the end of the world, but definitely not deserving of a tip!

I’ve only over been charged for ‘cakeage’ once. That was at Pangaea Restaurant in Manuka. I think a modest charge can be justified if the restaurant actually brings out the cake with the candles lit, cuts it and serves it to you. That being said, Pangaea didn’t cut or serve the cake nor preserve the element of surprise for the birthday boy, but charged an amount for each member of the group (~20 people), which made for a total cakeage amount far greater than the value of the cake. I would have liked to see them try to cut that small cake into 20 pieces!

…idiots like canberracafe.com even!

canberracafe.com said :

Feel free to name the restaurant in Canberra Cafe so we can slam them in a poll. Consumers deserve to know about such rip offs. It just shows contempt for customers.

If the charges are justified, they should explain these up front, not at payment time.

@canberra.cafe

For someone interested in getting a cafe website up and running you sure come across as totally naive on hospitality industry issues! There’s a thought: set up a website so that idiots like canberra.cafe can become half-arsed food critics and slam legitimate businesses without having a clue.

Wake up to yourself.

Cakeage is a legitimate charge as is corkage, and anyone who refuses to pay it is a bit of a scab.
Why do people think they can walk into an establishment that already sells food (including dessert) and wine, bring their own and get served for free?

Could you imagine going to a tyre fitting place for example, bringing your own tyres and getting them fitted onto your car at no cost? I doubt it. Or maybe hiring an ironing lady and then not paying her because you own the clothes!

Remember this, the cake is stored for you while you have your dinner, it is usually brought out to you by smiling staff who even sing ‘Happy birthday’ without a hint of embarrassment, the cake is cut and served on their plates, with their cutlery and then the whole thing is taken away, the leftovers repacked, and plates and cutlery washed. Who does all this? Certainly not you!
If you don’t want to pay for this type of service, then just have your dinner party at home, otherwise pay up and shut up.

lenny said :

I think Cakeage is a bit over the top, how much pp are we talking?

Bringing a cake is basically bringing your own dessert into the restaurant – imagine the reaction if you tried to BYO entrees or main meals! I have nothing against a reasonable cakeage fee, ditto reasonable corkage. The other fees can get stuffed though.

I got charged for corkage once, even though the bottles were unopened. The waitress asumed we were going to drink the wine, so charged us. Although after a chat to the manager, we weren’t charged.

I think Cakeage is a bit over the top, how much pp are we talking?

I think that the cancellation fee would be legitimate if the booking was for a set number, like at a wedding or similar, where the services provided ar a set fee per head, but if it’s just a regular booking at a restaurant and say eleven people show when the booking was for twelve, I’d simply refuse to pay it.

Go on then … out them, and let the fun commence!

Earned, even.

Yep. A tip should be earnt.

As much as I hateto say it, for once I mostly agree with Jonathon Reynolds. Mostly.

But…
As someone who worked in hospitality for a short time, a ‘service charge’ (as in a tip or gratuity) shouldn’t be included on anyone’s bill unless they’re so horrendously drunk or otherwise incapacitated that they require exceptional services forced on them.

Even then it would need to be so exceptional a circumstance that they wouldn’t be able to come back and sort something out afterwards.

I would refuse to visit any restaurant that charges a service charge.

out them

Jonathon Reynolds said :

Service Charge – as far as I am concerned a gratuity or tip is recognition of good, preferably exceptional service.

And totally optional, not a mandatory requirement.

Corkage – long standing accepted charge

Cakeage – an acceptable charge as per corkage. The restaurant is providing a service (cutting, plating, serving, and associated clearing and wash-up) in exchange for forgoing revenue that they would have taken otherwise by selling desserts.

Service Charge – as far as I am concerned a gratuity or tip is recognition of good, preferably exceptional service.

Cancellation Charge – possibly justified, if your colleague had booked an event for a set number of attendees then it is not unreasonable for the restaurant to charge for the provision of that meal even though there was a no-show and one of the meals was not consumed.

I believe that ‘corkage’ is legitimate if they provide glasses, an ice bucket for white and sparkling wines etc … as you point out it’s been around for a while.

I’m guessing that ‘cakeage’ is a derrivative of corkage. A mate of mine in the restaurant business once told me that from a financial point of view, dessert was a big money maker – in that the money you made on entres and mains covered your costs, but dessert was all profit. If that’s really the case, I’m guessing its an attempt at clawing back some lost income, but it looks a bit sus realy.

The other charges should be ignored. Simply refuse to pay them.

Feel free to name the restaurant in Canberra Cafe so we can slam them in a poll. Consumers deserve to know about such rip offs. It just shows contempt for customers.

If the charges are justified, they should explain these up front, not at payment time.

For things like ‘service charge’ and ‘cancellation charge’, I would simply refuse to pay. If they don’t like it they can take me to court.