Teaching Australian History in Schools

Well, they won’t be Australian when I’m done with them. If there’s so much trouble living together as one, we might have to send someone back. Why not the instigators? i.e. the scumbags like you.
Everyone else will live in peace.

racist ministers and your average, flag-bearin’, vb-totin’ redneck anglo ‘aussie’ scumbag – whom I swear, I will personally ship back to europe if they don’t shut their shit-stained mouths.

Spake the caring Australian.

Yeah, I’m not exactly killing my fellow aussies am I? That wouldn’t be caring about them.
Again, I’m sorry for derailing the debate. I’d honestly like to know what goes into teaching history with very little social issues.

““Keep your eyes on the main game.”

The main game – AFL, NRL or ARU?

Womans Beach Volleyball?”

Well, who can argue with that! 😉

And by the way, Timothy McVeigh thought he was a patriot – and just look what that idiot did!

“Patriots support their country through conflict with others, and defend their country’s interests”

That sounds a little empirical don’t you think? And you’re wrong. Patriots defend their country when the survival of their people is at stake, soldiers non-withstanding – and that’s only a small bit of it.
Anyway, I’ve driven this topic of the road and crashed into an idiot. Sorry.

Ahhh … patriotism – the last refuge of the scoundrel.

Now as far as those who died fighting under our flag, I sure hope that you don’t mean our AIF soldiers who perished at Gallipoli or in the trenches of France given that these men died under the Union Jack … but hey that’d just be another bit of meaningless history wouldn’t it.

Wow!

I would love to have a well structured, well argued post to back up those I agree with, dispute those I disagree with, and clearly state my own opinion.

However, after reading the jumble above, and having a chuckle or two (as well as the odd outraged curse), there is only one post I think worth commenting on,

“Keep your eyes on the main game.”

The main game – AFL, NRL or ARU?

Womans Beach Volleyball?

patriotism is more dangerous than religion. and is also really really fcking boring.

I was just about to say that Snahons. Maybe its not obvious enough for her.

I’d like a new flag too. It would be nice to have one that people could recognise, instead of one that looks just like the NZ and other flags.

I like girls who are into little bits of material and pretty colours

You’re not familiar with symbolism AD ?

Patriots support their country through conflict with others, and defend their country’s interests.

I have no respect for the flag (its a bit of fcking material!!!) – and I doubt that people actually died for it given that a flag has some pretty major troubles giving out orders.

Anyone who thinks that a bit of material with some pretty colours in my view suffers from some sort of mental retardation.

terra nullis – comment by Deadmandrinking

don’t shoot the messenger, I just clarified what the symbolism of the flag actually meant…

Who was here before the British, Maelinar?

the dutch? the french? the polynesians? the fucking vikings probably… what does it matter? the point is that the indigenous australians had the fabric of their lives changed by the british invasion and that should be taught as australia’s critical history, innit?

and sod off about respect, ralph. i’ll respect an ideal, and a flag is a mere symbol that may or may not entail an ideal. a national flag is too broad a symbol to be a simple ideal, so don’t go on insisting people follow yout shallow decrees…

[astro takes pill, calms down…]

That’s BS, Ralph. Complete and utter BS. I respect the COUNTRY, the land which holds millions of people from all different kinds of backgrounds, not just the british, that thousands died for. This does not include the flag.
I care enough about it to criticize what happens in it and to want positive change. That makes me an Australian Patriot.
Personally, I think a simple southern cross would suffice as a flag.
Go back to Britain if you love that flag so much.

If you don’t respect the flag, which thousands have died for, then you don’t respect the country.

Who was here before the British, Maelinar?

I recall a hearing a replay of radio interview with Manning Clark some years ago – During the interview caller rang in to berate Manning Clark about specific aspects of his book – History of Australia. Clark listened to the callers whinge and then asked him if he owned a copy of the book. The caller said that he did, so Clark asked him to read what was written on the cover – the response: Manning Clark’s History of Australia. Clark then advised the caller that if he didn’t like Clark’s history, he was more than welcome to write his own.

The Australian National Flag has three elements on a blue background: the Union Jack, the Commonwealth Star and the Southern Cross.

The Union Jack in the upper left corner (or canton) acknowledges the history of British settlement.

Below the Union Jack is a white Commonwealth or Federation star. It has seven points representing the unity of the six states and the territories of the Commonwealth of Australia. The star is also featured on the Commonwealth Coat of Arms.

The Southern Cross is shown on the fly of the flag in white. This constellation of five stars can be seen only from the southern hemisphere and is a reminder of Australia’s geography.

It’s a pretty colonialist flag. I’d like to see it changed. Why? Because I am Australian. I love my country and I care about every person who holds a document that says they’re a civilian. I believe the best way to love my multi-cultural country is to criticize what I see as bad about it.
But you don’t seem to care for this country – you’re happy to exclude one particular group of people based on the actions of a very few. That’s why I (jokingly, kind of) excluded you. You are a very very very poor Australian.
Which is why I’m making such a poor choice of a flag to wear while booting you out.

You said it was a small part, Thumper. I’m disagreeing with you.
You also said you taught your Year 9 students about ‘blackbirding’. Was that not a social issue? Did the aboriginals agree to do that?
Then you said you were instructed to teach your students history from the ‘femnazi’ point of view – does the fact that they might have had a different idea of what was going on mean there might have been a social issue?
Scumbag 😉

Doesn’t the flag symbolise white man invasion?

Well, from what it looks like, I don’t need it.
And I’m warning you also, you don’t leave, I’ll be round your house draped in a flag.

I don’t have the piece of paper that automatically makes anything I say intelligent

Ohhh you’ve made that abundantly clear already.

Well, I don’t have the piece of paper that automatically makes anything I say intelligent regardless of whether I’ve actually countered a point or not, so I’m at pretty low levels in my arsenal of mature-age schoolyard comebacks.

Answer me this, what is history about if it isn’t about societies and the issues they had?

Burn your degree then. Didn’t do shit did it?

Why are you still in this country Ralph? I told you to get out.

You forgot to add, moonbats.

To further my point.

The race to explore and colonize – Multi-social issue
Terra Nullis – Social Issue (even today)
Convicts – Social Issue
Settlers/squatters – Social issue.
Eureka Stockade – Social Issue.
Declaration of Federation – Social Issue
World War I – Social Issue
Great Depression – Social Issue
World War 2 – Social Issue
Cold War – Social Issue
Vietnam War – Social Issue
Gough Whitlam’s firing by the Governor General – Social Issue
Mabo Decision – Social issue
Gulf War – Social Issue
Port Arthur – Social Issue (semi-automatic weapons)
Refugees – Social Issue
Age of Terror – Social Issue (a lot of them)
Afghanistan – Social Issue
Iraq – Social Issue
Work Choices – Social Issue
Cronulla – Social Issue
You – Social Issue

Human History is about societies, Thumper. Societies have issues. The results of these issues advance society forward. Therefore, they become the very fabric of this big thing called history. These issues are, come on, say it with me, SOCIAL ISSUES!
Really, mate, idiots who think history should be taught as a bunch of stuff that happened should go back to school.

now I remember – Jackie Kelly, pre-kiddies…

Yet again, Ralph random calls and statements lacking fact should see him take on the job as the next John Laws – or SGS campaign manager…

Come on Ralph – you know its your calling

ps – hot female pollies? Who was the former Liberal Minister from Western Sydney? I saw her present at a race meeting at Eastern Creek in about 96, and she was as hot as any of the grid girls…

Your internally contradictory position on refugees and totalitarian governments betrays the astounding ignorance that pervades your thinking Ralph.

On one hand you are against totalitarian governments (Taliban, Hussein, both of which the US, with the support of Australia, helped to come to government, armed, trained, funded, until it didn’t suit them, for example Osama Bin Laden was trained by the CIA) are so evil that it warrants invading their countries to facilitate “regime change” (in clear contravention of international law in Iraq’s case), but on the other hand when people flee those regimes to seek refuge in Australia, they should be rejected?

By the way, “illegal arrivals” might be a good term to whip up the proles, but it is entirely inappropriate here. They were entitled to seek refuge under the Refugee Conventions (to which Australia is a party), for example all the people on board the Tampa have now been recognised as legitimate refugees and I believe have been resettled in Australia.

I think teaching History in schools is a great idea. But would anyone really want the syllabus set by people like Ralph?

I agree that a national standard should be set for teaching history, but it shouldn’t be set by the government. The teaching of history needs to be as non-biased and impartial as possible, which is something a government can never do. Especially this one, who seems to favor the Keith Windschuttle (oops, I mentioned him)deny-it-all-ever-happened approach.
The best history class I ever took, which I think should become a model for a national standard, was at Hawker College. The particular teacher provided us with the basic documented events and encouraged us to debate and formulate our own opinions about them. Unfortunately, this was only ancient, medieval and renaissance history. I personally think our younger generation would have a much better idea of where we come from and where we stand if this model was applied to Australian History.

‘A federal review of history teaching last year said the curriculum was too heavy on social issues and the Vietnam War.’? News flash, Howard! History is about social issues! Especially Australian history – what with the country being blatantly invaded by whites, whom didn’t even regard the aboriginals as proper human beings (terra nullis)and settled the country with convicts, leading to years upon years of social strife between the varying classes of the old world – leading up to today, where even in the ‘lucky country’ people of middle-eastern and Sudanese background suffer medieval exclusion at the hands of racist ministers and your average, flag-bearin’, vb-totin’ redneck anglo ‘aussie’ scumbag – whom I swear, I will personally ship back to europe if they don’t shut their shit-stained mouths. I’m looking at you, Ralph. A majority of Australian immigrated somewhere in the last two hundred years. If you cannot accept immigrants, get the hell out. You’re ruining the country.

Kevin Andrews can join you too. Honestly! All that cock and bull about Sudanese fighting in nightclubs, drinking in parks and ‘forming gangs’ is the most contrived crap I’ve ever heard pulled out of the Liberal Party’s ass. Do Anglo-Australians not fight in nightclubs and drink in public? Maybe the minister should take a walk out of parliament and head down to Garema Place on any Friday or Saturday night. And with the gangs, well, have Melbourne’s own Morans, Williams, Peckingdils and Mark Brandon ‘Chopper’ Read somehow managed to escape his radar? There hasn’t been a case of Sudanese shooting each other in broad daylight at kid’s football games as far as I’ve heard.

And finally – sorry for the long rant, but a lot of you pissed me off and I hate you – Maelinar, as much as I did not support the war in Afghanistan, I could never support the taliban. They were set up by certain people, with guns. Hardly a ‘people’s government”.

Julie is the hottest.

What about Danna Vale?????

Agree.

Julie versus Julia in Election 2013?

They live under the conditions that they have elected to set up. Enough of them oppose that way of life, and it will change.

Do not presume the media tells you the story from a completely neutral perspective, they have their own vested interests in pointing out only one side of the issue.

Denying Burma the right to do it themselves is like taking Cromwell, or the French Revolution, or the Cossacks, out of history. Or even your precious ‘American’ (we can do no wrong in the eyes of Ralph) war of independence out of the equation.

Are you that blind that you can’t see that this is EXACTLY the same process as what’s happening in Burma now ?

While we’re on the issue of history though, look no further than Korea and Vietnam to see that America’s solution is going to be to 1/2 the country and put in a big guardpost border.

Watch this space Iraq and Afghanistan.

Go put your views to the people of Burma, Mael.

Of course, that was all the will of the people, including the bashing of the monks, as you say.

Yes, who am I to know whether persecution, and denying people a voice, let alone democracy, is indeed the wrong thing to do.

Check your facts love, you’ll find that fellow was murdered by another Sudanese. – ralph

Ralph, the Sudanese guy (Liep Gony) that Andrews said (in effect) was killed for not fitting in was killed by two anglo guys.

If you can’t get a simple fact like this right, what does that say for the rest of your arguments?

I did that too.

History education in Australia is poor in primary schools now than ever before. My children weren’t/aren’t taught who Blaxland, Lawson and Wentworth were, who was William Dampier etc.

I remember doing many an assignment in primary school on Explorers and even took a trip to ‘Old Sydney Town’ – before it closed due to poor numbers. Which is a shame as is brought ‘history alive’.

When I asked my own students who those people were, all I got were blank looks. I had to explain to my own daughter who Bob Hawke was yesterday. She didn’t know. She’s now in Yr 7 and should know, at least, who our PM’s are. Although she did try to tell me in a matter-of-fact way, that Howard was the longest serving PM ever – which is bollocks.

Ralph, I support dictatorial governments. I also supported the Afghan self-government.

Before you start climbing onto your soap box, the reason I support them is they are set up by the people themselves.

Who are you to tell somebody else how to live their life ? What qualifications do you have in telling a fellow Australian, let alone a person of a different culture, what is right and what is wrong ?

Your pro-American ‘way’ is in no means a perfect society – look no further than the New Orleans disaster to see the compassion White Americans showed to their fellow Black Americans.

As for myself, I studied geo-political events professionally for several years. I can assure you, the only reason America is on top is by a LOT of dirty tricks, even on Australia.

So get back in your box, and go read a history book. A good start will be by an interpretation of the events surrounding the Indonesian Governments decision to purchase SU-30K fighters.

Although with your blinkers on, I think the results would be an amusing read.

What about how he left refugees fleeing the Taliban and Saddam Hussein’s Iraq (children, pregnant women) to rot on the deck of a container ship so that he could con his way into office during 2001?

Illegal arrivals.

The man is trying to appeal to the prole-minded suburban element of Australia’s psyche to get himself re-elected.

Yes, the cultural elites know what’s best for everyone.

Maybe how his Minister for Immigration made baseless remarks vilifying Australian citizens of Sudanese origin which arguably contributed to a young man’s murder

Check your facts love, you’ll find that fellow was murdered by another Sudanese.

Australia’s PM needs to do more than appeal to fat, suburban, ignorant, big car driving bogans if he expects us to be a prosperous nation in the future.

Spoken like a true man of the people.

before these ill conceived wars in Iraq and Afghanistan

So you support dictatorial governments, and the Taliban? You seem to forget all the atrocities that Taliban dished out against the people of Afghanistan, particularly women.

Looking back in history to move forward is fantastic. I’m not disputing the value of history.
I just wish our right wing government had done so before these ill conceived wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. You don’t need to read too much history to realise dragging our country into these military endeavours was always going to end badly.

As a solid lefty, I have to ask why a national standard in education is a bad thing? If a family moves to another state, isn’t it better for the kids to be in the same scholastic ballpark when attending their new school? Certainly, I am not familiar with the Howard plan – I wouldn’t be surprised if it is shallow and dubious – but the general concept of a national standard seems good to me.

Good luck finding the staff to teach Australian History as a stand alone subject! We can barely find enough teachers to cover the rest of the curriculum as it is!

It was a my major for my Ba. Education.

I’ve spent 6 years teaching it and most schools in Canberra teach Australian History, Geography and Politics as a year unit in Yr 8. The few that don’t are hindering their students. I liken it to ‘dumbing down’ their education.

I was told NOT to teach it to my students this year…..but I still am 🙂

This is also due to the fact that most of my students ‘attempted’ the new citizenship test (20 Q’s) and roughly 2% passed (12/20 is a pass).

Openyourmind – ‘rubbish’ e.g. how to look after a pet, manners, personal hygiene –> you know, the stuff that parents should teach their kids.

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

I met Julie Bishop professionally in a previous life long before she entered politics. She was a very impressive woman, intelligent and good-looking. Impossible! you say. True though.

What a disappointment as a minister.

Tampa and SIEV X were drummed-up by leftoids to discredit Howard.

Lefto Pinko Psycho Babble is rubbish. Like standing your children out in front of the school to furnish your own lefty agenda.

To those who question why it’s good to learn history: remember this point the next time somebody says “why are we still doing it like this when we already know it’s not going to work”, or you are reading through a document only to find that the exact same work was done 20 years ago.

History isn’t simply about x invaded y and now we have z. It’s about researching significant events and theorising about what could have been done better.

Unfortunately, as history has not been in the curriculum for many years, I’m afraid that many readers will be currently experiencing what it’s like to work for executives who don’t have a handle on history.

As a matter of interest Thumper, what is the ‘rubbish’ in the curriculum you speak of?

I think it says a lot about the current Govt that they want more emphasis on history and religion. I’d much prefer more emphasis put on science and mathematics. Not that history isn’t important, but it just seems to be symbolic of a backward looking Govt.

PS – Cross-eyed Bishop is thick as shit. Even Liberal supporters must recognise that.

Did someone say Tampa?

Gees, what’s he gonna make them do? Learn the words of Waltzing Matilda off by heart? Study all of Australia’s Cricket wins against England? The man is trying to appeal to the prole-minded suburban element of Australia’s psyche to get himself re-elected.

Will he be teaching students about the slave trade involving indigenous peoples operating between Queensland cane fields and the pacific in the 19th century? What about how he left refugees fleeing the Taliban and Saddam Hussein’s Iraq (children, pregnant women) to rot on the deck of a container ship so that he could con his way into office during 2001? Maybe how his Minister for Immigration made baseless remarks vilifying Australian citizens of Sudanese origin which arguably contributed to a young man’s murder? I doubt it.

Australia’s PM needs to do more than appeal to fat, suburban, ignorant, big car driving bogans if he expects us to be a prosperous nation in the future.

Making sure young people have a basic understanding of history is a worthy goal. But Howard’s version of history is useless, in any case he is only really interested in his own electoral prospects.

Better go, I’m missing another one of Howard’s taxpayer funded Liberal party promotions ($1 million dollars a day and counting).

Forcing everykid to do history is stupid. How many of those kids are just gonna waste the time and be worse off because they could have used the time to do another subject they like, which they are good at. By the end of their school they would be less qualified/and less intelligent to do job and position they will be taking up as a carreer. If you were going to be trying to push a particular course why history, why not anything else like First Aid or sports.. things that will make more difference.

Good luck finding the staff to teach Australian History as a stand alone subject! We can barely find enough teachers to cover the rest of the curriculum as it is!

The primary schools’ principals’ association is currently trying to draft a charter to state the “core business” of schools. So you make history compulsory, along with PE, literacy & numeracy, life skills, art, music, languages etc etc … My point is that the curiculum is already overcrowded. It is not up to the federal government to mandate what should be compulsory, especially when primary and secondary education is clearly a state (and territory) responsibility.

And I agree with Mr Magoo. Julie Bishop is the most under-qualified education minister we’ve ever had.

Thumper, I’m not so sure, as Rudd has been rather scathing about some of the States over their handling of health and other issues.

Well, the commonsense, trying-to-do-the-right-thing-for-the-country approach doesn’t seem to work with the States, e.g. trying to restore the Murray-Darling system – so maybe that’s why the Commonwealth has changed tactics?

What Julie Bishop knows about education you could fit on a postage stamp. Yes its a great idea and yes of course it has merit, but to again use the hangmans noose approach is so typical of LJH.

“Keep your eyes on the main game.”

The main game – AFL, NRL or ARU?

Wedge politics by a desperate man. Keep your eyes on the main game.

Never mind the public may actually agree with Howard on this one.

Howard is just scraping the barrel for ideas to get himself in the news.

I think Mr Della Bosca’s quotes are ironic since NSW is behind on pretty much everything. Transport, Education and Health are all in a pathetic state due to poor spending on behalf of NSW government. Look at the cross city tunnel and their trains. Not to mention the fact that they have been pushing hard to try and stop the Centrelink trains to the country and replace them with bus services. Thats a great idea!

I just hope they aren’t teaching the same Aussie history as when I was at school. There is only so much guilt you can lay on a child for being an invading convict.