The end comes for plastic bags

Henry82 said :

nobody said :

If only the plastic bags all made it to the tip, but they don’t, with our careless help they make it into our creeks, lakes, rivers, and oceans. http://www.5gyres.org/what_is_the_problem

Wow. just wow. With a comment like that you must either be the ‘site owner’, or a 1st year arts student

You do realise the vast majority of plastic bags do in fact end up in landfill (or recycled), with a genuine use, like picking up dog shit, or being a bin liner. The ones that make it into storm-water usually find their way there due to people littering.

So you want to inconvenience 99.999% of people who dont litter? Perhaps we should ban any product with packaging because someone *might* litter. Or perhaps resort to genocide to reduce Aus’ carbon footprint? Maybe we should just sell all our possessions and live off the land?

Wow, just wow, you completely missed my suggestion to read about the seriousness of discarded plastics pollution before complaining too much about the ban. Oh well.

I like your idea of extending the ban further than just bags, but I don’t think banning products is necessary yet, but banning a lot of other excessive plastic packaging should also help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_pollution#Plastic_debris

nobody said :

If only the plastic bags all made it to the tip, but they don’t, with our careless help they make it into our creeks, lakes, rivers, and oceans. http://www.5gyres.org/what_is_the_problem

If you knew even bits and pieces of chemistry, you would know that website is full of silly claims.

But then again, sheep aren’t hearded by facts and reasoning.

housebound said :

We have an excellent stockpile, and a few more days to gather more.

You can always cross the border and get your illegal plastic bags in Queanbeyan.

nobody said :

If only the plastic bags all made it to the tip, but they don’t, with our careless help they make it into our creeks, lakes, rivers, and oceans. http://www.5gyres.org/what_is_the_problem

Wow. just wow. With a comment like that you must either be the ‘site owner’, or a 1st year arts student

You do realise the vast majority of plastic bags do in fact end up in landfill (or recycled), with a genuine use, like picking up dog shit, or being a bin liner. The ones that make it into storm-water usually find their way there due to people littering.

So you want to inconvenience 99.999% of people who dont litter? Perhaps we should ban any product with packaging because someone *might* litter. Or perhaps resort to genocide to reduce Aus’ carbon footprint? Maybe we should just sell all our possessions and live off the land?

Henry82 said :

nobody said :

Then after reading this, remember that this plastic ends up been eaten by fish, and then we eat those fish.

yep, The plastic frees itself from the garbage its wrapped around, then tunnels (great escape style) to lake Birley Griffin.

If only the plastic bags all made it to the tip, but they don’t, with our careless help they make it into our creeks, lakes, rivers, and oceans. http://www.5gyres.org/what_is_the_problem

2604 said :

nobody said :

Banning these bags won’t save Earth’s oceans, but it is at least a start. Before complaining too much about the personal inconvenience, please have a look at the extent of plastic pollution in our oceans.

http://www.5gyres.org/

Then after reading this, remember that this plastic ends up been eaten by fish, and then we eat those fish. What goes around comes around, so the plastic we dispose eventually comes back around.

Last time I checked there weren’t too many fish swimming around the Mugga Lane tip.

Off course there are no fish at the tip, but there are plenty of plastic bags in the lakes and creeks around Canberra. Just look at the storm water grates feeding into Lake Burley Griffin.

Then after reading this, remember that this plastic ends up been eaten by fish, and then we eat those fish. What goes around comes around, so the plastic we dispose eventually comes back around.

Plastic eating fish. Now that’s pue unadulerated awesomeness.

Read how the plastic is ingested by the fish, and watch the video, then ask is this “awesomeness” or just plain bloody scary. http://www.5gyres.org/what_is_the_problem

nobody said :

Banning these bags won’t save Earth’s oceans, but it is at least a start. Before complaining too much about the personal inconvenience, please have a look at the extent of plastic pollution in our oceans.

http://www.5gyres.org/

Then after reading this, remember that this plastic ends up been eaten by fish, and then we eat those fish. What goes around comes around, so the plastic we dispose eventually comes back around.

Last time I checked there weren’t too many fish swimming around the Mugga Lane tip.

nobody said :

Then after reading this, remember that this plastic ends up been eaten by fish, and then we eat those fish.

yep, The plastic frees itself from the garbage its wrapped around, then tunnels (great escape style) to lake Birley Griffin.

Banning these bags won’t save Earth’s oceans, but it is at least a start. Before complaining too much about the personal inconvenience, please have a look at the extent of plastic pollution in our oceans.

http://www.5gyres.org/

Then after reading this, remember that this plastic ends up been eaten by fish, and then we eat those fish. What goes around comes around, so the plastic we dispose eventually comes back around.

Diggety said :

The problem is, if Governments are willing to use force for such trivial matters, what do we expect when we really do have significant problems?

‘Force’? Are check-outs going to become check-points? Will I need to carry my Rewards card on me at all times?

We have an excellent stockpile, and a few more days to gather more.

la mente torbida said :

We wouldn’t have a Nanny State if people stopped behaving like children

Speak for yourself.

The problem is, if Governments are willing to use force for such trivial matters, what do we expect when we really do have significant problems?

You are more than welcome to relinquish your own personal freedoms and responsibilities, though you are not welcome to mine.

We wouldn’t have a Nanny State if people stopped behaving like children

Athryn said :

After reading the comments here it’s easy to see that we are affraid of change of any sort!!

I haven’t used a plastic bag for over a year. I just got in the habbit of leave a couple of the re-usable bags in the boot of my car just in case I needed to go shopping. If I was doing a big shop, then I’d grab the rest of them off the top of my fridge. Too easy!!

What if you were at work and got a lift into town, do you walk around with bags in your pockets for the unexpected.

After reading the comments here it’s easy to see that we are affraid of change of any sort!!

I haven’t used a plastic bag for over a year. I just got in the habbit of leave a couple of the re-usable bags in the boot of my car just in case I needed to go shopping. If I was doing a big shop, then I’d grab the rest of them off the top of my fridge. Too easy!!

Deref said :

If everyone else uses them as I do, i.e. as bin liners, won’t they just be replaced by heavier and more expensive plastic bin liners?

Yep. Although, in my experience, bin liners from various brands seem to break down quite well, ie when I went to use a two-year old one last year, it just fell apart in my hands.

Trouble is, you’re right, we’ll just end up buying plastic bags instead of getting them complimentary with our shopping each trip. Cost of living increase!!!

averagejoeaussie said :

Yes, here we go again – another knee-jerk reaction from the idiots. I hear the reuseable carry bags are actually worse for the environment and take longer to break down tha the plastic “singlet” bags that are being banned. Also, what do us mere mortals do now to hygienically dispose of kitchen/cooking/food waste into the garbage bins? The singlet bags provided a hygienic method of disposing of this household waste – so now are we to expect an increase in unfavourable aroma, flies and the risk of disease throughout suburbia? Idiots, absolute idiots that can’t think for themselves….

OK, there is the obvious fact that when you go shopping you end up with a ton more every time. A re-usable bag (I wont use the term green as most them are synthetic anyway) will last many years before it will be thrown out (some of mine are 10 years old).

With regards to your household rubbish, food scraps should be composted, a vast majority of your packaging can be recycled & if you have a dog give them a treat with some bones. In a houshold of 5 I still dont fill the rubbish bin each week (& that includes a baby, no disposable nappies here thank you).

Have a think when you are shopping about the stuff you are buying, all these convenient packages are making more rubbish than we need. What happened to buying your yogurt in 1l containers? Or buying your ham from the deli rather than the fridge vacuum packed (& chemicals for preserving that ham).

Just some random thoughts outside the square.

Trad_and_Anon said :

I have built up about three years supply for my rubbish. And I will import them from NSW.
Idiot Greens.

Change is really really scary, isn’t it!

I have built up about three years supply for my rubbish. And I will import them from NSW.
Idiot Greens.

Im going through the self serve at Woolies filling my plastic bag up with plastic bags….

This thread… Wow.

Jethro said :

Watson said :

If you want bin bags, they’re for sale at the same supermarkets.

So instead of free plastic bags for our bins we know have to buy plastic bags for our bins. This is going to stop plastic bag use how?

As for a much earlier post about the Pacific Garbage Patch… yes it is a huge problem and not one that is going to be solved by banning plastic bags. I would wager that a very large percentage of plastic bags end up in landfill because most people reuse them as garbage bags, dog poo bags, dirty sport boot bags, etc.

The very fact that the garbage patch has been highlighted as why bags should be banned shows the problem with the line of thinking used by the bag banners. People can now think, ‘great, pollution problem solved, no need to worry any more’ and continue on with their merry lives of reckless consumption.

It is a tokenistic gesture that will have little to no impact other than to force people to purchase a product that they once got for free.

I think my point was that most people don’t use all the supermarket plastic bags as bin liners. I know I regularly have to do a cull and throw a stack of them in the bin.

And I do remember reading somewhere that it’s not the bin liners that are a problem for the environment. I think it’s the ones that are thrown away empty so they get blown away by the wind, or something like that. Bit vague on the details, shocking memory for facts.

In any case, not getting bags at the supermarket is not a huge inconvenience. Even if it only helps the environment in a very small way, I’m happy to put up with it.

Watson said :

If you want bin bags, they’re for sale at the same supermarkets.

So instead of free plastic bags for our bins we know have to buy plastic bags for our bins. This is going to stop plastic bag use how?

As for a much earlier post about the Pacific Garbage Patch… yes it is a huge problem and not one that is going to be solved by banning plastic bags. I would wager that a very large percentage of plastic bags end up in landfill because most people reuse them as garbage bags, dog poo bags, dirty sport boot bags, etc.

The very fact that the garbage patch has been highlighted as why bags should be banned shows the problem with the line of thinking used by the bag banners. People can now think, ‘great, pollution problem solved, no need to worry any more’ and continue on with their merry lives of reckless consumption.

It is a tokenistic gesture that will have little to no impact other than to force people to purchase a product that they once got for free.

I can’t wait until we have to take our own milk pails to the shops.

averagejoeaussie said :

Yes, here we go again – another knee-jerk reaction from the idiots. I hear the reuseable carry bags are actually worse for the environment and take longer to break down tha the plastic “singlet” bags that are being banned. Also, what do us mere mortals do now to hygienically dispose of kitchen/cooking/food waste into the garbage bins? The singlet bags provided a hygienic method of disposing of this household waste – so now are we to expect an increase in unfavourable aroma, flies and the risk of disease throughout suburbia? Idiots, absolute idiots that can’t think for themselves….

I don’t know about you, but by not taking my green bags, I collect way more supermarket bags than I can use for my bin. Even when I double bag, which is often necessary as they’re such bad quality. It’s a bit of a weak argument (and unnecessarily dramatically phrased, might I add). If you want bin bags, they’re for sale at the same supermarkets.

Do agree there are worse downsides to biodegradable bags though, as per my previous post.

SA banned plastic bags years ago. It was a pain remembering to bring the bags when you went shopping and I had to buy a couple from the shop on many an occasion, but kittens didn’t explode, the sky didn’t rain blood and jesus didn’t return to condemn us non-believers to hell.

Sure it is a nuisance, but it isn’t the catastrophe that many are raging on about.

Yes, here we go again – another knee-jerk reaction from the idiots. I hear the reuseable carry bags are actually worse for the environment and take longer to break down tha the plastic “singlet” bags that are being banned. Also, what do us mere mortals do now to hygienically dispose of kitchen/cooking/food waste into the garbage bins? The singlet bags provided a hygienic method of disposing of this household waste – so now are we to expect an increase in unfavourable aroma, flies and the risk of disease throughout suburbia? Idiots, absolute idiots that can’t think for themselves….

Holden Caulfield said :

Watson said :

random said :

The Frots said :

I’m the same withe greenie bags – tons of them and they really look great in the laundry cupboard.

So don’t leave them in the laundry cupboard, leave them in the boot of the car.

Why didn’t I think of that?! Oh, that’s right. I use them to carry my groceries from the car or bike to the kitchen which is why they always end up there.

What, you never walk back to your car or bike again after you’ve unloaded your shopping? That’s really odd.

Mind, I’m still trying to work out how on earth you manage to remember to take the groceries out of the boot.

Man, I wish I could remember where the damn car was!

The Frots said :

This really sucks for the Frots! What are we to use now to pick up the dog poo……………? Those greenie bags just don’t cut it!

After getting the last orange from a string bag this morning I realised that you could probably use those. Plus if you give the dog a good curry the night before, you could use the filled bag as a deterrent to getting mugged when you go out walking at night. Seriously, though, we re-use bread bags. They are a nice small size and, because they are usually transparent, everyone can see that you are doing the right thing.

Cool……………………………now, about that curry recipe?

Holden Caulfield said :

Watson said :

random said :

The Frots said :

I’m the same withe greenie bags – tons of them and they really look great in the laundry cupboard.

So don’t leave them in the laundry cupboard, leave them in the boot of the car.

Why didn’t I think of that?! Oh, that’s right. I use them to carry my groceries from the car or bike to the kitchen which is why they always end up there.

What, you never walk back to your car or bike again after you’ve unloaded your shopping? That’s really odd.

Mind, I’m still trying to work out how on earth you manage to remember to take the groceries out of the boot.

Sigh. You sound like a very organised person, I am not. I inevitably end up at the shops without bags because I’m a muddleheaded wombat. It’s no biggie. I’ll get used to it.

Watson said :

random said :

The Frots said :

I’m the same withe greenie bags – tons of them and they really look great in the laundry cupboard.

So don’t leave them in the laundry cupboard, leave them in the boot of the car.

Why didn’t I think of that?! Oh, that’s right. I use them to carry my groceries from the car or bike to the kitchen which is why they always end up there.

What, you never walk back to your car or bike again after you’ve unloaded your shopping? That’s really odd.

Mind, I’m still trying to work out how on earth you manage to remember to take the groceries out of the boot.

Jeez! Anyone would think its the end of the world. Human beings are capable of surviving without plastic disposable everything y’know. Perhaps its time to get out of your comfort zone, use some initiative to come to terms with it.

…And the question is, “why don’t the supermarkets/shops provide bags that don’t pollute the environment?”

BimboGeek said :

Well that’s one more thing to get organised about: start taking my bags to the supermarket instead of buying them and sticking them in the cupboard!

At work we use paper bags because it looks more fancy, it’s strong and I dunno why else, the boss just decided it was sexy and cool so off we go. I kind of like handing them out, though. It’s so much nicer handing someone a pretty bag than a crappy 35 micron one.

Oh yes, in some European supermarkets they offer strong paper bags. I personally found them more practical than those crappy plastic bags that threaten to rip when you point at them.

Well that’s one more thing to get organised about: start taking my bags to the supermarket instead of buying them and sticking them in the cupboard!

At work we use paper bags because it looks more fancy, it’s strong and I dunno why else, the boss just decided it was sexy and cool so off we go. I kind of like handing them out, though. It’s so much nicer handing someone a pretty bag than a crappy 35 micron one.

John Moulis said :

[…] then there was that crap story with no basis in fact about a turtle which died supposedly by choking on a plastic bag.

http://www.environment.gov.au/coasts/pollution/marine-debris/index.html for a start – or look at the pacific garbage pall that watson linked, or organisations like the carpentaria ghost nets program, or a thousand other bits of actual, like, information. i suppose the climate is static, or variable due to non-anthropogenic causes only, too, huh? and there’s a santa…

try some research before trotting out ill-informed biased claptrap – “no basis in fact”, ha! come out from under the rock, the weather’s fine.

Watson said :

random said :

The Frots said :

I’m the same withe greenie bags – tons of them and they really look great in the laundry cupboard.

So don’t leave them in the laundry cupboard, leave them in the boot of the car.

Why didn’t I think of that?! Oh, that’s right. I use them to carry my groceries from the car or bike to the kitchen which is why they always end up there.

But I do often feel guilty about collecting that many plastic bags. Especially if you get one of those Woolies employees who deem it necessary to put only two items in a bag. I always end up with more than I can use for the bin.

Yep – still, the change appears to be something we will need to make. So, the bags will be moving out of the laundry and into the car.

Also thanks ‘Queen of the Bun’ – we regulary support the RSPCA anyway and I’ve no doubt that they will get a lot more business!!!

ACT – “The Nanny State”

random said :

The Frots said :

I’m the same withe greenie bags – tons of them and they really look great in the laundry cupboard.

So don’t leave them in the laundry cupboard, leave them in the boot of the car.

Why didn’t I think of that?! Oh, that’s right. I use them to carry my groceries from the car or bike to the kitchen which is why they always end up there.

But I do often feel guilty about collecting that many plastic bags. Especially if you get one of those Woolies employees who deem it necessary to put only two items in a bag. I always end up with more than I can use for the bin.

As I have said before, here we go again with the Government idiots! Let’s listen to the minority groups and not mainstream Australia (common sense)! I hear they have a fantastic idea – get rid of plastic shopping bags by banning them with absolutely rediculous fines for retail outlets that continue to supply them! Yeah! Why not? Let’s ban these bags that the majority of households use for the hygenic disposal of food/scraps/kitchen waste each and every day into their council bins. Let’s replace them with environmentally-friendly bags that take longer to break down than the plastic bags they are replacing! Now let’s go to what? I know! Paper bags that demand the chopping down of millions of trees! Well done, A.C.T. Government! I smell another typical knee-jerk reaction ala Alcopops tax, Economic Stimulus package, Insulation scheme, Carbon tax, etc etc. And you idiots wonder why we are cynical?

‘A whole lot LESS plastic’ is what I meant to write above!

It is interesting that while the ALP have been all over this ‘government announcement’ in all local media, no mention that it was a part of the Greens/ALP agreement to form government.

I think it is a poor public policy initiative, which ignores the Productivity Commissions report on the efficacy of such a ban. It will be curious to see how it works over the longer term.

mousie15 said :

Deref said :

If everyone else uses them as I do, i.e. as bin liners, won’t they just be replaced by heavier and more expensive plastic bin liners?

Agreed!! I really hope Woolies and Coles come up with a biodegradable bag solution that will be excluded from the ban… I doubt they will though 🙁 They’ll likely be rolling in more money with the ban as people will now have to buy their reusable bags and the supermarkets won’t have the cost associated with providing plastic bags. How fortunate… 😐

Yes you can get organic, decomposing bags like cornstarch bags. I’ve used them, work fine. They’re compostable too. So hopefully there will actually be a whole lot of plastic with much less nasty stuff.

John Moulis said :

More empty-headed gesture politics to appease The Greens and give the government a warm and fuzzy “environmentally friendly” image. The media and green lobby invented urban myths about dead whales and dolphins being cut open and thousands of plastic bags spilling out, then there was that crap story with no basis in fact about a turtle which died supposedly by choking on a plastic bag.

What a pity pensioners and the less well-off always have to be the victims when the extremely powerful green zealots flex their muscles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch. Plenty of news stories on this that can be Googled too.

mousie15 said :

Deref said :

If everyone else uses them as I do, i.e. as bin liners, won’t they just be replaced by heavier and more expensive plastic bin liners?

Agreed!! I really hope Woolies and Coles come up with a biodegradable bag solution that will be excluded from the ban… I doubt they will though 🙁 They’ll likely be rolling in more money with the ban as people will now have to buy their reusable bags and the supermarkets won’t have the cost associated with providing plastic bags. How fortunate… 😐

Please not biodegradable bags! I was shocked when I watched the “Last chance to see” episode on Madagascar – a place I always wanted to visit because of the forests and wildlife – and was told that over 90% of the forests had been cut down to make room for plantations of some plant that was used to make biodegradable bag for the rich West! Biodegradable bags appear to be like bio-fuel: it just shifts the problem elsewhere.

I’ve been stockpiling the bastards since this announcement last year. Should get me through a couple more months before I have to start forking out for garbage bags and dog poo bags.

This is such a stupid regulation. If we have a problem with excessive land fill banning shopping bags isn’t going to solve it. Our entire society is based on consumption and the rubbish it creates. Let’s ban one of the only things we get for free and can reuse over and over while ignoring the fact that we are still going to be an incredibly wasteful people.

Oh well. At least someone can feel all warm inside knowing they made a difference.

Deref said :

If everyone else uses them as I do, i.e. as bin liners, won’t they just be replaced by heavier and more expensive plastic bin liners?

Agreed!! I really hope Woolies and Coles come up with a biodegradable bag solution that will be excluded from the ban… I doubt they will though 🙁 They’ll likely be rolling in more money with the ban as people will now have to buy their reusable bags and the supermarkets won’t have the cost associated with providing plastic bags. How fortunate… 😐

More empty-headed gesture politics to appease The Greens and give the government a warm and fuzzy “environmentally friendly” image. The media and green lobby invented urban myths about dead whales and dolphins being cut open and thousands of plastic bags spilling out, then there was that crap story with no basis in fact about a turtle which died supposedly by choking on a plastic bag.

What a pity pensioners and the less well-off always have to be the victims when the extremely powerful green zealots flex their muscles.

The Frots – the most useful purchase I ever made when I had dogs was a poo bag dispenser which clips on to the lead. Right size, right colour, right strength plastic and no unexpected holes that are so often in supermarket bags. You can get refills and, assuming you at least start the walk with your dog on a lead, you never forget to take a bag with you.

Even better, you can buy them from the RSPCA!

The Frots said :

I’m the same withe greenie bags – tons of them and they really look great in the laundry cupboard.

So don’t leave them in the laundry cupboard, leave them in the boot of the car.

Plastic Shopping Bags Ban Act 2010
A retailer commits an offence if—
(a) the retailer
(i) supplies a plastic shopping bag to a customer of the retailer; and
(ii) the plastic shopping bag is supplied for the customer to carry goods bought, or to be bought, from the retailer.
(b) the retailer fails to make an alternative shopping bag available for the customer to carry goods bought, or to be bought, from the retailer.
Maximum penalty: 50 penalty units.
…
retailer means a person who sells goods in trade or commerce.

So, Westfield just becomes a supplier of shopping bags, not the stores themselves?
(Or you provide throwaway bags for customers the store next door, they supply throwaways for yours, and you half-heartedly wave customers towards the biodegradable bags)

It’s a pain in the ass, honestly. I shop as I need things – I don’t have set work hours and there is consequently no dedicated, regular shopping time. Carrying a supply of green bags that I have to purchase, just in case I go shopping, is not convenient.

Oh well. I’ll get used to it I guess.

interesting the term single use, who doesn’t reuse the shopping bags for bin liners, rubbish, wet / dirty clothes, dog poo , etc, where as all the allowable bags have no other use.

I understood they decomposed quickly in sunlight at the tip

now I have to buy bags, Ok, but FFS what is achieved besides Glad bag profits

Watson said :

The Frots said :

This really sucks for the Frots! What are we to use now to pick up the dog poo……………? Those greenie bags just don’t cut it!

Eew, the Woolies/Coles bags always have holes in them! The veg/fruit bags are much better.

I really do try my hardest but I almost never remember to take my green bags to the store. Memory like a sieve and just generally disorganised. I had to stop buying more green bags as I have a huge stack already. And they rarely make it off the top of the fridge. But now I’ll be forced to train myself…

And we’ll be forced to train the dogs no doubt………!!! I’m the same withe greenie bags – tons of them and they really look great in the laundry cupboard.

The Frots said :

This really sucks for the Frots! What are we to use now to pick up the dog poo……………? Those greenie bags just don’t cut it!

Eew, the Woolies/Coles bags always have holes in them! The veg/fruit bags are much better.

I really do try my hardest but I almost never remember to take my green bags to the store. Memory like a sieve and just generally disorganised. I had to stop buying more green bags as I have a huge stack already. And they rarely make it off the top of the fridge. But now I’ll be forced to train myself…

If everyone else uses them as I do, i.e. as bin liners, won’t they just be replaced by heavier and more expensive plastic bin liners?

This really sucks for the Frots! What are we to use now to pick up the dog poo……………? Those greenie bags just don’t cut it!

It’s a good thing in the end, I think. Had to get rid of those billions of plastic suckers eventually.